How much is too much?
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: State of Flux
Posts: 2
How much is too much?
He has sucked me dry.
I am going to al-anon, it helps and it is working, even just reading the material has helped tremendously. I can see now that he did not do this to me, I let him. Yes and no. He lies so much.
It's hard. I want to be a friend, but he makes it impossible. When he drinks (it's been a month solid now) he calls me vulgar names I have never been called in my life, nor do I deserve.
I have worked on detachment which, according to him, makes me a "cold hearted bitch". According to him I'm the only thing standing between him and his deathwish by liver.
He has lied, whined and stomped. I have coaxed him into detox and rehab, he left early and he's back out drunk four months later. He went to AA but it's a "cult".
He's going to die (or so he says). I think he wants me to feel guilty when he does. He's pretty much screwed up his whole life leaving a family and a career in the dust. I fear for him, he's going to be homeless. I fear more for the public at large, I want someone to take away his car.
It's so hard to be a witness so someone's slow suicide, yet it is also so hard to turn my back on a friend. He's used up everyone. Well, come to think of it, he's used me up too. I'm exhausted.
Letting go is not that easy.
Any thoughts?
I am going to al-anon, it helps and it is working, even just reading the material has helped tremendously. I can see now that he did not do this to me, I let him. Yes and no. He lies so much.
It's hard. I want to be a friend, but he makes it impossible. When he drinks (it's been a month solid now) he calls me vulgar names I have never been called in my life, nor do I deserve.
I have worked on detachment which, according to him, makes me a "cold hearted bitch". According to him I'm the only thing standing between him and his deathwish by liver.
He has lied, whined and stomped. I have coaxed him into detox and rehab, he left early and he's back out drunk four months later. He went to AA but it's a "cult".
He's going to die (or so he says). I think he wants me to feel guilty when he does. He's pretty much screwed up his whole life leaving a family and a career in the dust. I fear for him, he's going to be homeless. I fear more for the public at large, I want someone to take away his car.
It's so hard to be a witness so someone's slow suicide, yet it is also so hard to turn my back on a friend. He's used up everyone. Well, come to think of it, he's used me up too. I'm exhausted.
Letting go is not that easy.
Any thoughts?
Nature Girl
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: By The Lake
Posts: 60,328
Welcome Briansfriend. Letting go can be painful, but eventually we just get too exhausted to hold on any more. We know we didn't cause it, can't control it and can't cure it, but they'd sure like us to think we can, because thinking we can is what keeps us connected.
Letting go is the only way to let them find their own way, and the only way to regain our balance and sanity. I know with my son, I could not live in his addiction and my recovery at the same time.
Just keep going to your meetings and working on your program, and one day you will find the strength to let him find his own way, which is the only way we can ever help them.
Hugs
Ann
Letting go is the only way to let them find their own way, and the only way to regain our balance and sanity. I know with my son, I could not live in his addiction and my recovery at the same time.
Just keep going to your meetings and working on your program, and one day you will find the strength to let him find his own way, which is the only way we can ever help them.
Hugs
Ann
Supply Manager
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Cleaverville
Posts: 2,898
Briansfriend,
Through the years I have discovered that letting go is a process not an action. We let go in stages. I am willing to bet that you have already let go of alot.
My son is teaching me through his actions that letting go of him is not optional, it is required if I want a shred of serenity. Guilt and fear are the two emotions that are my enemy and over time I am beating them.
Hugs,
JT
Through the years I have discovered that letting go is a process not an action. We let go in stages. I am willing to bet that you have already let go of alot.
My son is teaching me through his actions that letting go of him is not optional, it is required if I want a shred of serenity. Guilt and fear are the two emotions that are my enemy and over time I am beating them.
Hugs,
JT
Member
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: That's what I'd like to know.
Posts: 2,416
Hi Brian's Friend,
Y'know... you can help with that getting the car taken away thing. It would involve reporting him when you know he is out driving drunk. Sounds like a horrid betrayal, doesn't it? However, we have a member who hasn't been on for awhile whose husband went to jail for manslaughter. You can weigh those things and think about it.
Now I need to address the "they didn't DO this to us" thing because sometimes it drives me crazy the way it gets applied. He didn't choose to have a disease. He didn't handcuff you to the doorknob and make you watch. However, the following is a list of actions which cannot exist except in the presence of a victim. Deception, theft, manipulation, assault, verbal abuse. If he lied to you, HE lied to YOU. The theory that he lied because he has an essential malfunction doesn't change the fact that he did it. The fact that you kept listening after the second lie doesn't change the fact that he lied. Our tolerance and participation does not erase the action. What you have there is a person who lies. Compassion is a beautiful thing. Steeling yourself against hatred with understanding is compassion. But I am sorry to say you have stumbled onto one of my soap opera subjects. I have for three years participated on this board, and for three years watched people use "he isn't doing this TO me" as an excuse to KEEP TAKING THE CRAP. "He isn't doing this to me" means you can remove yourself. It means he may not be totally responsible for his actions. But the fact that the stove didn't heat up in a malicious plot to burn you doesn't mean you should try sitting there again. A stove is a thing that can burn, not a chair.
Someone said that to me the first week I was here. "Dino was not doing this TO you." My response then and now is "nonsense". Oh yes, he did. Stole, lied, manipulated and placed me in danger. He DID that. Those facts are inescapable. And it was realizing the inescapable fact that he was a person who would DO those things that made me take steps to insulate myself from that kind of harm. I was at first an unwitting victim. Then I was a tolerant victim. But you cannot HAVE a victim without a victimizer, whether they are malicious or not. Your posterior did not spontaneously combust. We don't need to despise the stove but we can, for pete's sake, identify the source of heat!
Hugs,
Smoke
Y'know... you can help with that getting the car taken away thing. It would involve reporting him when you know he is out driving drunk. Sounds like a horrid betrayal, doesn't it? However, we have a member who hasn't been on for awhile whose husband went to jail for manslaughter. You can weigh those things and think about it.
Now I need to address the "they didn't DO this to us" thing because sometimes it drives me crazy the way it gets applied. He didn't choose to have a disease. He didn't handcuff you to the doorknob and make you watch. However, the following is a list of actions which cannot exist except in the presence of a victim. Deception, theft, manipulation, assault, verbal abuse. If he lied to you, HE lied to YOU. The theory that he lied because he has an essential malfunction doesn't change the fact that he did it. The fact that you kept listening after the second lie doesn't change the fact that he lied. Our tolerance and participation does not erase the action. What you have there is a person who lies. Compassion is a beautiful thing. Steeling yourself against hatred with understanding is compassion. But I am sorry to say you have stumbled onto one of my soap opera subjects. I have for three years participated on this board, and for three years watched people use "he isn't doing this TO me" as an excuse to KEEP TAKING THE CRAP. "He isn't doing this to me" means you can remove yourself. It means he may not be totally responsible for his actions. But the fact that the stove didn't heat up in a malicious plot to burn you doesn't mean you should try sitting there again. A stove is a thing that can burn, not a chair.
Someone said that to me the first week I was here. "Dino was not doing this TO you." My response then and now is "nonsense". Oh yes, he did. Stole, lied, manipulated and placed me in danger. He DID that. Those facts are inescapable. And it was realizing the inescapable fact that he was a person who would DO those things that made me take steps to insulate myself from that kind of harm. I was at first an unwitting victim. Then I was a tolerant victim. But you cannot HAVE a victim without a victimizer, whether they are malicious or not. Your posterior did not spontaneously combust. We don't need to despise the stove but we can, for pete's sake, identify the source of heat!
Hugs,
Smoke
Member
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Georgia
Posts: 341
Yes, it can be very exhausting and very, very draining. It is hard to watch someone do this to themselves, but when we realize that we can't control it, we didn't cause it, and we can't help, we start to realize that the best thing we can do is to let go. It is the only way to save our sanity.
When I started to detach, my AH thought I was a cold hearted bitch too and initially he threw tantrums and raged, and cussed at me, but that was because he couldn't blame me for his drinking anymore (I refused to be responsible for THAT anymore) and because I wouldn't take his horrible verbal abuse anymore (I set boundries). My AH also tried the "your the only one who can save me" line too. I knew that that wasn't true. The only one who could save my AH IS my AH, not anybody else.
When I started to detach, my AH thought I was a cold hearted bitch too and initially he threw tantrums and raged, and cussed at me, but that was because he couldn't blame me for his drinking anymore (I refused to be responsible for THAT anymore) and because I wouldn't take his horrible verbal abuse anymore (I set boundries). My AH also tried the "your the only one who can save me" line too. I knew that that wasn't true. The only one who could save my AH IS my AH, not anybody else.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: State of Flux
Posts: 2
Thank you all so much for you insights and the time you took to post them. I'm taking every word to heart.
I got this email this morning:
I will have to admit it hurts. Shrill is a strange choice of words being that my choice was to back away and distance myself, not confront him. "Shrill" is a strange discription of silence.
I got this email this morning:
I realize that my behavior of late has been unflattering.
But you have become increasingly strident and shrill, in your words and your deeds, and that is unflattering as well.
You need to take a look at yourself, (and I am saying this sober). It is no longer pretty.
But you have become increasingly strident and shrill, in your words and your deeds, and that is unflattering as well.
You need to take a look at yourself, (and I am saying this sober). It is no longer pretty.
I will have to admit it hurts. Shrill is a strange choice of words being that my choice was to back away and distance myself, not confront him. "Shrill" is a strange discription of silence.
Nature Girl
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: By The Lake
Posts: 60,328
When they send something like that...never read beyond the "but" or "You need to". That's just another way of sneaking in the back door with an insult.
Sober, he still sounds like a bully to me. You deserve to be treated better.
Hugs
Ann
Sober, he still sounds like a bully to me. You deserve to be treated better.
Hugs
Ann
Member
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Georgia
Posts: 341
It's just another way of putting things back onto you. How many times did he say "I"? How many times did he say "you"? This is just another way alcoholics try to make you feel guilty for detaching from them. He's hoping that you look at yourself (not him) and feel guilty and then you'll be "back in line" and everything will be back to "normal". 
Searching and tripping
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Back in my head
Posts: 1,194
Hi Briansfriend,
Well... Even sober, he sounds cruel and very hurtful. So, I ask myself what's his excuse? Are you really a Bi***? Good for you. Most of us need to create a defense and lots of us are Bi*****.
Now is the time for you to look to taking care of ourself totally. Forget him. He's horribly jealous of the fact that you've learned how to detach from his disease. I think you've accomplished a lot and you should be proud of yourself. A friend is someone who supports and encourages growth, strength and health. He's not doing any of this for you. Personally, I would prefer to be friendless then have to cope with the likes of him. He's actually your worse enemy.
If you're concerned about his driving while drunk, the next time you know he's out on the road and has been drinking, call the cops. They'll take care of everything. You may be saving someone's life and God won't forget that.
Stop the insanity from seeping into your life. He's destroyed his, and misery loves company. He no longer has anyone who's willing to put up with him except you. You're enabling him to continue being what and who he is. If you totally detach; hang up the phone; change your number; change your email address; anything that will keep him away from you, he just might realize that something is truly wrong in his life.
It is his choice to die a slow death. By the way, this is a line commonly used by alcoholics. It's used to get sympathy. What's he's done to his life is his responsibility. Not yours and never was and never will be.
Continue with your meetings. Get away from this jerk. None of us can save the alcoholic. They can only help themselves We all suffer from the "savior" complex. But we've learn that we're wasting precious time and breathe on nothing.
Redirect your energies to yourself. Be kind to yourself. Meet other people and get him out of your life. You sound like a caring and loving person. There are people out there who would dearly love to have you as a friend. Who would appreciate your company and all that goes along with a lasting relationship.
Take care and be blessed, Kathy
Well... Even sober, he sounds cruel and very hurtful. So, I ask myself what's his excuse? Are you really a Bi***? Good for you. Most of us need to create a defense and lots of us are Bi*****.
Now is the time for you to look to taking care of ourself totally. Forget him. He's horribly jealous of the fact that you've learned how to detach from his disease. I think you've accomplished a lot and you should be proud of yourself. A friend is someone who supports and encourages growth, strength and health. He's not doing any of this for you. Personally, I would prefer to be friendless then have to cope with the likes of him. He's actually your worse enemy.
If you're concerned about his driving while drunk, the next time you know he's out on the road and has been drinking, call the cops. They'll take care of everything. You may be saving someone's life and God won't forget that.
Stop the insanity from seeping into your life. He's destroyed his, and misery loves company. He no longer has anyone who's willing to put up with him except you. You're enabling him to continue being what and who he is. If you totally detach; hang up the phone; change your number; change your email address; anything that will keep him away from you, he just might realize that something is truly wrong in his life.
It is his choice to die a slow death. By the way, this is a line commonly used by alcoholics. It's used to get sympathy. What's he's done to his life is his responsibility. Not yours and never was and never will be.
Continue with your meetings. Get away from this jerk. None of us can save the alcoholic. They can only help themselves We all suffer from the "savior" complex. But we've learn that we're wasting precious time and breathe on nothing.
Redirect your energies to yourself. Be kind to yourself. Meet other people and get him out of your life. You sound like a caring and loving person. There are people out there who would dearly love to have you as a friend. Who would appreciate your company and all that goes along with a lasting relationship.
Take care and be blessed, Kathy
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
