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Desperation Stakes

Old 08-21-2017, 01:46 PM
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Desperation Stakes

I've been a drinker for my adult life. Starts off with bingeing in my youth and then as I settle down it becomes drinking at home with the weekends extending out and finally seizing the Wednesday in it's grasp. I have sober periods but they're getting shorter and shorter.
I don't know any accepted facts about addiction. I only know what doesn't work for me. What I think is my will power is controlled by this need. There is no independent willpower. The fact is that whatever's driving it, is driving me - they have driverless cars now don't they? Well I'm one of them.
If I had some enemy to stand up to then okay, but that's not the way it is. My compulsion to drink decides what I'm going to think and want, which is alcohol. There's no arm wrestling going on, no looking in the eyes of the enemy. I am the enemy.
I need a new life. I certainly don't need this one. But a new life, something with people and places and interests and exciting things, absorbing ideas and all the rest of the malarky would involve alcohol just the same, probably more, which would prevent it happening anyway. No, it's impossible. I don't need a new life, I need a new me, and that's not going to happen.
It's so frustrating. Tomorrow and tomorrow and tomorrow, and so on and on and on.
I think that the cause of all this is so deeply embedded in me, part of me. Drink, drugs and all the other stuff is only the symptom of the sick self.
No wonder people turn religious when their only other option is annihilation. "I was at my lowest and then......."
I'm not criticising it. It takes a miracle. And if one isn't forthcoming then maybe forcing yourself to submit to something might be the only thing that can do it. Maybe to have to have something derail you from the tracks.
However, even some suspension of belief, reaching out to something higher for the sake of expediency isn't something I could stretch to. The thing is to accept where you are. That's what I need to work on. Accept that this is where I am. Things won't change miraculously - because a miracle would certainly be required. I have to fully realise that there is no change possible, no effort sufficient. This is where I am and where I'm stuck.
Maybe that's the only way. To really give up everything, make a big gamble. Maybe I can see out the rest of my life with some kind of understanding.
I'm just thinking aloud.
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Old 08-21-2017, 01:54 PM
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Time to do it differently this time tap. I suggest you detox with the help of a physician and try a program or method you have not yet attempted. In any event do it differently this time.

All the best to you.
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Old 08-21-2017, 03:13 PM
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Good to see you man

I needed a new me too Tap. So I became a new me.

I changed everything. I changed what I did for fun, & who I did it with.

I changed how I dealt with problems, how I dealt with boredom, how I dealt with self hatred.

It was in many ways the hardest thing I had to do, but looking back the only really hard part as I remember it now was facing the fear and the cynicism and deciding to do it anyway...

D
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Old 08-21-2017, 03:52 PM
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" What I think is my will power is controlled by this need. There is no independent willpower. The fact is that whatever's driving it, is driving me - they have driverless cars now don't they? Well I'm one of them.
If I had some enemy to stand up to then okay, but that's not the way it is. My compulsion to drink decides what I'm going to think and want, which is alcohol. There's no arm wrestling going on, no looking in the eyes of the enemy. I am the enemy. "

Exactly how I used to think, pretty sure the term is terminal uniqueness.

Reading and learning about RR/AVRT changed my perspective 180 degrees on addiction , its driving force , the role "I" play in all of that .

Have you checked out the threads in the Secular Forum here on SR , in them you will find the exact counter arguments to your quoted statements above.
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Old 08-21-2017, 04:02 PM
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A complete revolution's needed. That's a big deal. But, maybe it could be a positive thing. I'm really at the end and I'm starting to think that that's probably not a bad thing. Well why not?
I had 5 days sober - really doing well I thought - and started again tonight. All the common sense doesn't count for anything. That's why I need a life change.
I drink like an alcoholic but I'm not one, I've never had any treatment. Doctors have known about my drinking and I've been referred but haven't gone along. I think it's something I've got to do for myself.
I think what it would take would be to do the mental equivalent of walking naked down the high street. Just to not give a **** anymore. I have to have nothing, get rid of everything, get rid of my whole self and start all over again. Maybe I'm a hologram.
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Old 08-21-2017, 04:08 PM
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Thank you awuh1, dwtbd and Dee. I'll certainly do something or other.
RR/AVRT - I know nothing of any such things. I have drunk a lot but I honestly have no knowledge of clinical stuff. I obviously have suffered from having a fixed idea that no one can teach me anything.
It is time for change or, well nothing really. I actually feel better now than I have for a long time. It doesn't matter. Bring on the cheerleaders.
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Old 08-21-2017, 04:17 PM
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I think your right Tap, you are needing a complete life's change is needed. For me that did come through faith, Christian faith, not religiousness. I'm not hesitant to tell you it changed me positively permanently. Forgiveness is powerful, forgiveness from our divine creator is life changing. No I won't start preaching, but I know you have been working at your sobriety and I thought I would share a huge part of what has made it possible for me to be over four months 100% sober. Keep searching, you can do this!
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Old 08-21-2017, 04:37 PM
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I think AVRT would resonate with you Taplow. Worth a shot.

D
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Old 08-21-2017, 04:52 PM
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Hi SimplyFree, I'm glad to hear that from you and I know that a belief in God is something that can transform someone. I don't want to get into a theological debate because I'll **** someone off. I should say straight away that I'm a complete non- believer, though I'm not one of those that feels all superior about it.
I think that my favourite people are those who believe and don't believe at the same time. What I mean by that is that they follow a religion but they don't go into the nuts and bolts of it. They're not literalists. For a brief time I once had a girlfriend who was a Catholic. When I asked her about it she said she wouldn't go into it, she didn't delve into it but that it was just something she just accepted and kept in the background. That's what I like, that it's not defined.
Though I don't believe, I think it fulfills something that we need. I respect it because I think it's a part of our psychological make up. We're naturally religious/superstitious - our ancestors prayed for the crops to grow, what else could they do? It's difficult to sweep so much of that humanity away through reason.
I'm drunk. I wouldn't be going on like this now.
Anyway, some kind of road to Damascus is needed for me I think.
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Old 08-21-2017, 04:54 PM
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Dee, thanks I'll look into it. AVRT. For something that's been so big in my life I know nothing about it.
I think sleep now.
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Old 08-23-2017, 05:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Dee74 View Post
I think AVRT would resonate with you Taplow. Worth a shot

D
Thank you Dee. Is this what you mean? Rational Recovery | The Crash Course On AVRT
It seems to make some sense. Or am I missing something? I like the idea that the addictive voice hijacks my thoughts. I have to stand up to that part of myself. That might be a trick that would work for me.

No work today. Tried to make myself busy with stuff that needed doing. Into town and stuck in a queue listening to a spectacular argument. Exciting times.
My plan didn't work. Got home and drank more just to make up for the time lost - two supermarket visits instead of one. Work permitting I drink all the time now. I think there should be a therapy involving being hit on the head with a mallet.
I don't wish this on anyone. It's not like an illness where you can't control it, although it actually probably is an illness where you can't control it. The thing is we think it's within our hands. That's depressing.
Best wishes fellow travellers.

Last edited by Dee74; 08-23-2017 at 04:37 PM. Reason: delinked commercial link
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Old 08-23-2017, 10:38 AM
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". I think there should be a therapy involving being hit on the head with a mallet. "

In a way there is, and you seem to be employing that therapy , to your head, your liver, your kidneys ect. Not good therapy , I recommend you stop.

Have you tried poking around in the Secular Connections forum here on SR? Lots of great threads on RR/AVRT in there. Start with the one in the " Stickies", wish you well and hope to see you around
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Old 08-23-2017, 04:38 PM
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Yeah thats the one (I had to delink it as it's a commercial link by our rules)

My knowledge of it is limited but a lot of folks swear by it - hope it helps Taplow

D
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Old 08-23-2017, 04:59 PM
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Originally Posted by taplow View Post
I don't wish this on anyone. It's not like an illness where you can't control it, although it actually probably is an illness where you can't control it. The thing is we think it's within our hands.
Too late...we all have it already :-).

And if you think about it logically ( which is pretty difficult when you are drinking ) - alcoholism is one of the few afflictions that we have the power to change. It's actually 100% "curable" from the standpoint that anyone can stop drinking - and stay stopped - if they truly want to. Our addiction would love us to believe that we see somehow unique in our affliction and "uncurable" - but that's BS and self-pity plain and simple.

You can quit.....you just have to want it enough and do the necessary work to get there.
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Old 08-25-2017, 02:39 PM
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Yes we do have the power to change and I know that because I stopped for 7 or 8 boring years. I started drinking again about 6 years ago, and to be honest it's probably more boring. Drinking is a compete waste of time. The fact is I'm still a boring useless *****. I'm off visiting friends over our bank holiday weekend. Meeting a friend with a similar problem and the idea was not to drink. I thought yeah, let's go along with it. I don't know though. Bollocks to that I think. Can't let down my friend. Of course I'll let down my friend.
I'm so incongruous and ill fitting here. I come every now and again and say how I want to but I can't. I know I have to stop drinking - my black **** stinks . But, I think alcohol it gives me something. I don't believe it of course but it happens every day.
So, I was going off to visit friends - even I have friends - in London and was reminded that we agreed not drinking. My main friend is a coke user/drinker though he's not as bad as me but is trying to be clean. I can't stand that. I've got to get out of that visit.
I go to work and they all know about my drinking. I told someone and they told someone and they all know. I play it down but it's clear when I've been drunk the night before which is most of the time.
What I think is that I have something controlling me. I can give up myself but something controls me
and tells me that it's a great idea to drink. I'm not sane as regards alcohol. I guess that you all think the same. I can do it but I decide I don't want to. I want to drink even though I know it's wrong. Imagine looking at a pangolin - wonderful creature, hangs around in trees in South America I think. It's kind of monkey like. What I need is maybe a journey to some small deserted island. Maybe I can live somewhere, I don't know, some island inhabited just by puffins.
I think I need to get through a few weeks. The reason I gave up before in this 8 year period was because I'd been in a hospital for a month with meningitis. I remember coming out and amazingly having no wish to drink. I got so pissed up before having brain surgery. How stupid is that? It's quite stupid really. It's the ambition of a ******. I've given up on life but I've bought new pajamas.
The first night after release I went to some arty place where they had free wine and I remember not wanting it and feeling so liberated. I remember the amazing freedom. I was so liberating. Any drug is just an illusion. You create your need.
I need that frame mind again. Difficult though isn't it? I know what to do but what happens is a part of me tells me that's not what I want. I'm thinking that that's my alcohol voice. What a bastard. I need to realise that that's what it is.
The problem with the alcohol voice is it's baritone. I want something higher pitch, falsetto maybe. That's probably just an excuse to meet some women.
Anyway, back to life, back to reality. It's got to be one or the other. You know I nice glass of wine isn't possible. It's not even nice is it? Alcohol isn't nice. Drinking is like lying in a trough full of ****. If you drink you're climbing on to endless conveyer belt of misery.
I want to go to the island with the puffins.
I do think though that drinking orientates your mind in a different direction. It kind of gives you a creative slant on things. No one dances if they don't drink, unless that's not true.
Anyway, I've got this weekend dilemma to think about. To drink or not to drink. That is the disaster. Have a bit of willpower please.
here did I get this from? I mean gorillas don't drink. Neolithic man didn't drink. For a start they didn't have proper licensing hours.
I realise that I can always take refuse in solvent abuse but I know that I've got a certain reputation to maintain. I'm a classy guy.
I'm inebriated but I feel that I can pass on amazing wisdom that you can all share. Remember that for every chaffinch that comes into your garden someone dies. Think of that when you look out of your window. I had two beautiful goldfinches in my garden the other day and the very next day I won ten pounds on the lottery - coincidence?
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Old 08-25-2017, 03:03 PM
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cancelled
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Old 08-25-2017, 03:09 PM
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I've tried to delete the posts above but I don't know how so this is cancelled as well.
Although, what do I care?
Drinking is like when you're looking for the Cosgrove Aqueduct on the Shropshire Union Canal instead of the Grand Union Canal where it is. You're never going to find it. And why would you want to? There's plenty of better aqueducts on the Shropshire Union Canal anyway. For instance there's the Stretton Aquduct and the Nantwich Aqueduct, both designed by Thomas Telford and both Graded 2 Listed.
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Old 08-25-2017, 03:32 PM
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Good to see you Taplow! I haven't read the entire thread but I get the feeling that you are really frustrated and I totally understand what you mean about not having a physical enemy ti face.

Not drinking. It's such a little thing.

Only it's not it's every bit as deadly as a huge multi tentacled monster that wants to devour us only it is invisible to everyone including ourselves.

I tried and failed lots of times (too many times) and just occasionally reading that other people had stopped when I couldn't made me feel worse - even more of a failure than I felt before I read it. I have never said that on SR before.

Anyway, the thing is none of the people who have stopped are better than you - you are just someone that is in the same position as they were before they stopped. I remember from some of your previous posts that you had a very logical thought process so I hope you do investigate rational recovery. I have not read the last two posts.
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Old 08-25-2017, 03:34 PM
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Don't get me wrong, I'm not in anyway critical of the English canal system. I know that a statement like that might cause uproar. I wish to make it clear that I believe that the canals of England are the best in the world. Also the quality of our aqueducts is unparelled. I think this should be made clear on any alcohol forum.
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Old 08-25-2017, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by saoutchik View Post
Good to see you Taplow! I haven't read the entire thread but I get the feeling that you are really frustrated and I totally understand what you mean about not having a physical enemy ti face.

Not drinking. It's such a little thing.

Only it's not it's every bit as deadly as a huge multi tentacled monster that wants to devour us only it is invisible to everyone including ourselves.

I tried and failed lots of times (too many times) and just occasionally reading that other people had stopped when I couldn't made me feel worse - even more of a failure than I felt before I read it. I have never said that on SR before.

Anyway, the thing is none of the people who have stopped are better than you - you are just someone that is in the same position as they were before they stopped. I remember from some of your previous posts that you had a very logical thought process so I hope you do investigate rational recovery. I have not read the last two posts.
You know you say you haven't read the entire thread, well neither have I. Thanks for your reply, it's very nice. I actually really understand what you mean and I think it's right. I'm not someone special - oh look at me, I suffer more than you. There's always that kind of stuff maybe. Yes you're right. How are as regards drinking Saoutchik? Are you sober?
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