Can you help them without changing them?

Old 08-15-2017, 07:18 PM
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Can you help them without changing them?

Hey everyone - I'm very new to the forum, and also the topic... today is my first day looking online about this.

I'm worried about my wife.

I have found hidden bottles of vodka a few times around the house, and I also notice that she has been drinking most nights (she has a certain kind of accent when she's had a few drinks).

She runs a business, and there have been times where she will be going to an important meeting, and she will be either tipsy or flat-out drunk.

When I bring up any topic around her drinking (eg. "are you ok to do <whatever situtation is>"), she gets very angry.

We're very different - she loves to drink, and enjoys wines pretty much every day, and when on holiday will go from bloody mary's in the morning through to partying in the evening. I very rarely drink, but enjoy partying every now and then.

I try not to be judgmental of her drinking, although sometimes I fail at that.

The biggest concerns for me are:

1. Her health. She recently was in hospital for pancreatitis which the doctor suggested was either due to alcohol or to gallstones (she thinks gallstones, I think alcohol)

2. Her mental health. When she drinks she becomes very stressed out, and angry. Then drinks more to try and de-stress, which only makes her more stressed out.

3. Our relationship & our child. Even when she has had just 1 or 2 drinks, she basically becomes a different person. A very mean-spirited, impatient, controlling person, which puts a lot of strain on our relationship, and I am concerned that it may harm her relationship with our child (I am not worried about other dangers to our child - that's not her).

I know I can't change her. But I do want to help her.

Anytime I try to help, it dissolves into fights and arguments and I feel myself starting to resent it. And that's not what I want.

I love my wife. I just want her to be happy.

I'm not sure what I'm looking for from posting this.
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Old 08-15-2017, 07:28 PM
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I think she is well into a serious drinking problem. You are wise to be concerned about her health. Drinking ruined mine. My wife would occasionally lose her temper and give me ultimatums but for the most part she was patient and encouraged me to make the decision to get help. I wish I had better advice for you brother. Hang in there.
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Old 08-15-2017, 07:44 PM
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Thank you Vedette. Patience & encouragement might be all the advice I need. Appreciate your reply.
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Old 08-15-2017, 07:55 PM
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what if you move your child to #1 ? do any of your options change?
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Old 08-15-2017, 08:12 PM
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@AnvilheadII... that's a very thought-provoking question.

Reading back, I don't think I phrased the statement around her parenting well. Regardless of her drinking, I believe she is a great mother, and I completely trust my wife around our child. I know she would never place our child in danger, and I am unaware of any time that she has been drinking around them in an uncontrolled manner (sure, she's had a wine at lunch, etc).

I know if I did not trust her with our child, I would be doing everything I could to protect them.

I honestly don't know how to answer your question yet.
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Old 08-15-2017, 08:22 PM
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It sounds like she's a full blown alcoholic and as you've found out, trying to get in the way between them and their booze, is a sure fire way to set them off.
Alcoholism also is something that gets nothing but worse over time, so right now is the best you're going to see her at. Also pancreatitis for sure is something that can happen from alcohol abuse and can get serious quick.
Unfortunately there is nothing you can do to get her to quit unless she chooses to do so on her own. Attending alanon would be a good place to start and you also may want to take a serious look at your relationship, especially for the well being of your child.
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Old 08-15-2017, 08:27 PM
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When you say attending alanon - I assume you mean Alcoholics Anonymous?
And me attending? Or my wife attending?
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Old 08-15-2017, 09:13 PM
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Al-Anon is for people who are connected to someone with a drinking problem - a spouse, an ex-spouse, a parent, a kid, whoever. It's similar in form to AA, except that the focus is on how to look after yourself while you navigate the challenges of dealing with a problem drinker. There's a lot of emphasis on detaching (in a positive sense) and understanding the limits of your action, as distinct from trying to get someone else to stop drinking (which is pretty much impossible). I've found it very helpful. You can go to Al Anon even if the problem drinker (the "qualifier") is not going to AA and/or is still drinking heavily.

I don't know if your wife is technically an alcoholic, but it sounds like her drinking is a problem, whatever label you want to put on it. The hiding and the defensiveness when you bring up her drinking are yellow flags, if not a red ones. It sounds like she doesn't want to you to know how much she drinks and she doesn't want to even consider the possibility of drinking less. Al Anon can help you stay more or less sane while you seek to understand this difficult situation and think about your options.
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Old 08-15-2017, 09:40 PM
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@Sasha1972 that's really helpful - thank you very much
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Old 08-15-2017, 09:41 PM
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swingout.....Alcoholics Anonymous is for anyone who wants to get sober.....
Alanon is for anyone who has been effected by an alcoholic in their life. It is focused on the loved ones (not the alcoholic)....

swingout---a basic fact about alcoholism....it will come, eventually, to effect every area of an alcoholic's life.....It will have effects on the persons work life, physical life, emotional life, and their relationships, all around....
And, it is progressive....it gets worse, over time...not better....
It can only be put into remission (never "cured"), by complete abstainence....

It is good to understand the nature of alcoholism, so that one can know what one is up against....

from what you shared with us...I can see that you are (naturally) concerned about the effects that it is having on your wife...and, by extension...the effects, and possible future effects on you and your child....

It is not unusual that she would become angry when you bring up the subject of her drinking...that is pretty standard.....
And, denial is a feature of the disease.....

About change...she, like everyone else, will only change if she sees the need of it for herself.....
That doesn't mean that you have to hide your thought and feelings and concerns, though.....

alanon has been suggested....and, it is a place where other people who can understand, beyond words, what you are going theough...as they have walked in your same shoes...of loving an alcoholic....
A therapist and alcoholism counselor can be of support to you, also......

As far as educating yourself.....the "stickies"....the articles at the tip of the main page...just above the threads....contains a treasure library of information.
I suggest that you go to the third one down, and find the section called "classic Readings".....and begin to read the articles, there....

Also, there are thousands of real life stories, here on the forum....You will find your story among them, also.....You can draw validation and inspiration from reading their real life experiences.....

I hope that you will continue to hang around and post and learn......you are not alone....
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Old 08-15-2017, 10:59 PM
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Hi swingout,

I'm very sorry for your situation.

As others have said, your wife clearly has a very serious drinking problem. I think everyone here will recognise her behaviour and attitude. Generally speaking, it only gets worse, and sooner or later the alcoholic crosses the formerly 'unacceptable' lines of behaviour, one after another. It is up to you to draw firm boundaries and stick to them; sometimes this may actually help bring her to the decision to quit. But please do a lot of reading here and elsewhere, you will see that people generally realise that they cannot DO anything to MAKE the alcoholic stop drinking. You ask "can you help them without changing them?" - I'd say you can't really, but in any case don't you want her to change? Stopping drinking is a HUGE change.

What you can do is to focus on yourself and try your best not to let yourself get consumed by the anxiety and stress she causes you and will continue to cause you until the drastic decision to quit drinking is made. I hope for your sake I'm wrong but I suspect she is quite a way away from it right now. Read more about codependency, about 'detaching', consider Al-anon, take care of your health.

Hope things get better for you and for your wife and child. I'm responding to your post because I feel like I was in a very similar situation quite recently (though I don't have children, which is a big difference). My wife's drinking got worse and worse and she did all kinds of previously unimaginable things. After 2-3 years of ever-worsening stress and misery I asked her to move out and REALLY quit and stay sober for several months before I'd take her back; the story is 'to be continued' ...
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Old 08-16-2017, 05:55 AM
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Pancreatitis and alcohol. She was most likely told to stop drinking. The gall stones certainly can add to issues here. My ex had the same problem, and because he would not stop drinking he developed chronic pancreatitis which continued to affect him after he became sober eventually causing him to become a type 1 diabetic. Not trying to scare you here I certainly am not saying that will happen to her, but I can tell you that if she has had one attack another is most likely going to occur again if she keeps drinking.

I suspect that her becoming and angry drunk after 1 or 2 is really her becoming an angry drunk after 7 or 8 or 12. In other words, as much as you think you are monitoring how much she is drinking you aren't. Hidden bottles are a bad, bad sign, and a red flag that she is drinking far more than you know.

As to your child - please do not fool yourself that she would not ever do anything harmful. While sober I am sure this is not the case. I'm also sure you wouldn't hire a drunk babysitter. No drunk intended to actually do anything harmful on purpose, yet they do often even though the intent was not there.

Education about the disease will be very helpful to you, as well as attending Al Anon.
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Old 08-16-2017, 06:03 AM
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when she has had just 1 or 2 drinks, she basically becomes a different person. A very mean-spirited, impatient, controlling person, which puts a lot of strain on our relationship, and I am concerned that it may harm her relationship with our child (I am not worried about other dangers to our child - that's not her).

Regardless of her drinking, I believe she is a great mother, and I completely trust my wife around our child. I know she would never place our child in danger, and I am unaware of any time that she has been drinking around them in an uncontrolled manner (sure, she's had a wine at lunch, etc).
Other than emotional danger, what kind of danger would you be waiting to witness before putting the child’s needs and best interest first before the alcoholics?

I would check out al-anon and read as much as you can about alcoholism and it's progression as well as addict behaviors and the affect alcoholism has on the entire family, children and all. It's often our own denial on how bad it is affecting the children.
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Old 08-16-2017, 06:21 AM
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Originally Posted by swingout View Post
@AnvilheadII... that's a very thought-provoking question.

Reading back, I don't think I phrased the statement around her parenting well. Regardless of her drinking, I believe she is a great mother, and I completely trust my wife around our child. I know she would never place our child in danger, and I am unaware of any time that she has been drinking around them in an uncontrolled manner (sure, she's had a wine at lunch, etc).

I know if I did not trust her with our child, I would be doing everything I could to protect them.

I honestly don't know how to answer your question yet.
one thing i wonder,with having found hidden vodka bottles around the house, is if there may be some denial going on here and shes not only drinking at night. could be drinking more than just at night.

this:
"she has a certain kind of accent when she's had a few drinks".

could possibly be " a few drinks that im aware of"
??????????
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Old 08-16-2017, 09:59 AM
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"Can you help them without changing them?"

Do you really not want them to change? I wanted change from my axh; to be kind, thoughtful, helpful, present, respectful, loving, and everything else a "normal" husband was. I waited 34 years and it never happened for me.

She doesn't have an issue with her drinking, you do. So it's not her issue to fix, it is yours.

We only have control over ourselves, you can change, and that's all that matters. Hugs my friend, we all get it.
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Old 08-16-2017, 01:05 PM
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I know she would never place our child in danger, and I am unaware of any time that she has been drinking around them in an uncontrolled manner

perhaps not intentionally but as addiction progresses, the behaviors of the addict become less predictable. and risky. she is most certainly drinking MORE than you are aware of - and she is drinking more often than just at night. since her tolerance is already all over the map, and by your own admission she turns into a mean, nasty, angry person when drinking, it is NOT a far stretch to imagine how things could get out of control VERY easily, and very quickly.

as mentioned above, would you hire a babysitter who drinks like your wife does?
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Old 08-16-2017, 02:23 PM
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Can you help them without changing them?
I had to think about the way this was phrased for a bit. Yes you can help people without changing them -

Help can come in the form of being supportive, encouraging change, listening, advocating for professional treatment, having patience, taking care of your children if she is not capable at any point, taking care of yourself and your emotions, educating yourself on substance abuse and treatment options. There are lots of ways family can help.. and probably if you were to seek support from a psychologist, someone who even specialized in addiction medicine there would be suggestions offered to you based on your own individual situation.

We cant Change other people because that is an Inside Job. Think about it, can anyone change you? People can offer me suggestions, support, encouragement, even share their opinions, and suggest I do what they did. But only I can decide I need to change, and then follow through with what I think is necessary to make it happen.

This may not even be what you were asking, but I did ponder the question and for that I thank you.
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Old 08-16-2017, 07:11 PM
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If your wife doesn't intend to change her drinking behavior (as indicated by the stashes of bottles and anger) I think there's nothing you can do to help her - except to let her know that if she ever wants to stop drinking, you will support her decision. In the meantime, you will look out for the kids primarily and you will look out for yourself.

I have a child with an alcoholic ex-husband who really loves our daughter and wants to be a good father, but because of his addiction he has put her in danger and exposed her to things she should never have had to witness. Many alcoholics love their children, but that love doesn't mean they are safe to be around.
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