PerSe

Hi,

I started going to Alanon. I've been to two meetings so far. Going there is not easy. But I see that it is a good thing to do.

DH is a great dad. He is an engaged parent. However, it seems like when he's gone a few days without drinking, he can get really moody - edgy, impatient. Yesterday was a good example. He had the day off. He decided to wash the vehicles. He wanted the boys to help. The boys were probably 75% fooling around and maybe 25% helping. I swear he was like a drill sergeant out there. So 30 minutes into it he's all PO'd and the boys are feeling like crap. Then by mid-evening, after 3 beers and some wine, dad is suddenly mellow, easygoing, and pretty fun to be around.

And that is pretty much how it goes. After the boys go to bed, DH will then finish off at least one, often up to two bottles of wine, plus whatever beer he had. The next morning, he will be grumpy again. Repeat again on Saturday night. Then Sunday night he goes to bed early for work the next day.

For many years it was a lot more drinking than just the weekends. After I stopped drinking and told him how I felt about it he did cut back, and we are basically where we are now. Another factor - he has arthritis and self-medicates now with the wine, cannabis infused chocolate, and Tylenol 3. He is in pain quite a lot of the time which contributes to the low moods. But he was a binge drinker long before arthritis ever developed.

Anyway, I guess I wanted to just ask - has anyone out there decided that staying with their alcoholic partner was the best thing? I cannot tell if remaining in our current situation is better than the trauma of splitting up our family. We really are a pretty happy family. I just feel so concerned about the boys growing up seeing their dad's drinking habits as the normal. On the other hand, I often feel like I am creating this drama or worry over something that really isn't that big of a deal. I tend toward black & white thinking, so seeing some middle ground is difficult for me.

Thank you for reading. I am really grateful for this forum.

PerSe

tomsteve

"I just feel so concerned about the boys growing up seeing their dad's drinking habits as the normal
So 30 minutes into it he's all PO'd and the boys are feeling like crap.
And that is pretty much how it goes.
The next morning, he will be grumpy again.
Anyway, I guess I wanted to just ask - has anyone out there decided that staying with their alcoholic partner was the best thing? I cannot tell if remaining in our current situation is better than the trauma of splitting up our family. We really are a pretty happy family. "

best thing for what- for you to not have to face the problem? best thing for the children to grow up thinking its ok act like dad?

"On the other hand, I often feel like I am creating this drama or worry over something that really isn't that big of a deal."
want your children to grow up thinkin this is the norm?

i truly hope youre not lookin for excuses to not face the problem

PerSe

I've spent many years avoiding the problem. I knew he was an alcoholic before I married him 18 years ago but could not admit that to myself. I could not feel very much at all. We drank together for many years. It was fun but unhappy for me. I don't know if I'm looking for excuses. I just want wellness for my two kids.

dandylion

PerSe....alcohol, codeine and weed---in the amounts that you describe is a pretty heavy load....especially mixing the codeine with alcohol...extenuates the effect...
The one thing that is for sure...alcoholism gets worse over time.....
If he continues...it will get worse....
Plus, the Tylenol can do a job on the already stressed liver (from the alcohol)....
I won't make any comments about medical marijuana... his physican can deal with that...it is highly individual.....

There are much better drugs, these days to treat the arthritis than what he is trying to use....he would do well to see a rheumatologist to treat his arthritis....
But, I am pretty sure that a rheumatologist would want him to quit drinking to prescribe those drugs...

If you are concerned about the wellness of your kids....I would say that they are getting an up front lesson on how to embrace alcohol....
And, I think that the teen years are when you may see the reflection of that...
Kids are more inclined to do what they see their parents do than what they say....Their father is a major role model for them.....

I have never seen an adult who said that "my dad was a drunk/alcoholic" who did not, also, say that they suffered from it.....even if they did love their dad....
all kids love their parents and want the parent's love....regardless of what their circumstances are or what the parent does.....

I think that this would be a good question to ask the section for Adult Children of Alcoholics, also....you will get answers directly from the horses' mouths.....

I know that you probably hate to hear this...but, I think it is really important to know the reality of it....

SparkleKitty

Untreated alcoholism progresses. What is acceptable today is not likely to last.

Mango blast

I was like a frog in a pot of warm water on the stove top. I never noticed how damn hot the water was getting. Yes, this "family disease of alcoholism is chronic and progressive.

My husband and I have been living apart for over a year. He's also been sober for much of that time frame. Alcohol is a symptom of the disease. Removing it can be a start of recovery, but it's not a solution.

We're working on ourselves... and through that our marriage is stronger.

There has been very little trauma for our children from us living separately. There is immense trauma we are all now healing from that we endured while living together. Emotional and psychological abuse, never knowing what is coming next, what words... What actions... stuffing emotions... pretending everything is okay for the moment... that is trauma. I'm still becoming aware of how damaging it was and how deep it goes.

Living apart gives us opportunities to bring our best to time together, and if any of us aren't up for that, it also gives the space to walk away. Walking away now has a new meaning... it simply means "I need space for myself." We've all needed that SO much more than we realized!

LexieCat

The only time I've seen kids do OK without the nonalcoholic parent leaving is where the alcoholic parent is actively in recovery. Even then, early recovery is no picnic, but given that yours isn't even in recovery, I don't see how any of this is good for your kids (and yes, it WILL get worse).

PerSe

I feel so afraid that he would FLIP OUT if I took the boys away. I mean he might not allow it to happen.

I go back to the question of "Is it really that bad? Am I making a big deal over a few bottles of wine per week?".

I am working on getting a job. I can't really do anything until then. Keepingthefaith, when I read your post about having this space for yourself, it sounds so great. I feel so afraid. I feel so afraid that he would simply not allow it to happen. He loves the boys with everything. I just don't know how it could happen.

Thank you for the reply.

LexieCat

He can't PREVENT it from happening, if you are talking about divorce and your receiving primary custody. He doesn't have nearly the power you think he has. And you wouldn't be "taking them away"--most courts are very careful to be sure that even alcoholic parents maintain a relationship with their children even if there are some restrictions on parenting time for the safety/well-being of the kids.

I'd suggest you read around the forum about people who grew up with an actively drinking alcoholic parent. Many of them are permanently scarred from the experience, even where no overt abuse happened. It's about having a parent who is absent from their lives even when s/he is there, about having a parent who behaves in embarrassing ways, about not being able to have friends over, about watching the other parent become a nervous wreck from trying to hold everything together, about thinking that all of this is "normal" and repeating the patterns in their adult relationships.

dandylion

PerSe....it is not just one or two bottles...it sounds like much more, It sounds like beer plus wine plus codeine plus weed.....
That sounds like a "big deal", to me.....because it is affecting his brain and entire body, every day...and, that is no small thing....

Now would be the time to work on yourself to develop your self esteem and your self confidence...plus educating yourself as to your rights....you do have rights that he can't take away from you....
You are his peer...his equal....
Your being married is a voluntary act.....you are not obligated to stay if it is harmful to you or the kids...if you decide to go...you have every right to do so.....

If you are afraid of him...that he might become physically abusive....then you can seek help from the courts and the law..as well as domestic abuse organizations who will help you if you just ask them for it....

Maybe a good baby step that you could take, right now, is to begin going to alanon and educating yourself as to what is really possible....
Marriage should be something that nourishes your spirit...not a prison that you stay in because of fear......
You have to take care of yourself and your welfare, first, before you can be the best mother to your children....

You might want to look around this website...just to educate and familiarize yourself....it is listed by state.....it doesn't replace a lawyer, but it is educational in nature.....

Divorce Advice, Laws, and Information from WomansDivorce.com

SparkleKitty

I can think of one way he could "not allow it to happen" and that would be by doing everything in his power to overcome his addiction.

That's the gold standard here. Not just "getting by" and being "not so bad". That is what a really committed parent would do.

Maudcat

Hi, PerSe.
I can see how much you are struggling with this.
I could state the obvious: he loves his family but he loves drink and other stuff more.
But you know that.
A couple of things:
1. A couple of bottles of wine plus beer plus whatever else is a LOT.
2. Waking up grumpy, and no wonder, puts everyone on notice, not in a good way.
"Don't bother Dad. He just woke up."
3. Giving the kids a hard time because they are being kids is, well, poor.
I am the child of an alcoholic.
We walked on eggshells when he was drinking, because he had a harsh temper.
He was not emotionally there for his kids.
Now, he might have been that way without the drink. I'll never know.
Kids see and understand a lot more than we think they do, and are affected in ways we can't even begin to see by a family member's alcohol consumption.
One last thing, which I am sure you already know. Alcohol dependency is progressive.
Unless he embraces sobriety, as you have, it will get worse.
Where do you see yourself in 10 years?
Peace.

trailmix

I hate to be so blunt but what you have described is not a "great dad" or and "engaged parent". No parent is perfect, that's true, however in this type of situation what he is showing them is a method of behaviour that won't help them in the future.

As Lexiecat said "about thinking that all of this is "normal" and repeating the patterns in their adult relationships".

I'm sure most people think well, obviously, when they are adults they will realize this isn't acceptable and won't accept this behaviour from others. Well, from what I've seen, that isn't necessarily the case.

Would you think it was ok for them to accept this type of treatment from a stranger or a friend? Probably not, but you accept it from a person they look to as someone who will protect and love them.

Please know i'm not trying to say that you should or should not take any action one way or the other. You know your own situation.

Again, sorry to be so blunt.

PerSe

Thank you all so much for your replies. I know that I will re-read them all many times over.

The other day my seven-year-old and I were in the store. He said, "Mom what would you do if you could freeze time for an hour and do whatever you wanted?" I said something silly, can't even remember. And I asked him what he would do. He said, "I would go break open all the bottles of wine and try them."
This hit me hard. Really hard. He's seven. But he sees his dad loving the wine and the beer, and therefore, that is what he is interested in. I am scared to my core about how this is going to affect them as they reach their teen and young adult years. I am so. scared.

Maudcat

Well, leaving your husband's issues aside for a moment, and I agree with trailmix that he doesn't sound particularly engaged when he is white knuckling it, you are a very good role model for your kids in that you no longer drink.
That was tough, as we all know, made doubly so by the fact that your partner still drinks.
So you have a lot of cred when talking to your kids about alcohol and other substances.
If I may ask, what was your response to the seven year old's comment about wine bottles?

tomsteve

exactly what danylion said.

"Is it really that bad? Am I making a big deal over a few bottles of wine per week?".
look at the effects it has on you AND your children.
your own son:
" "I would go break open all the bottles of wine and try them."
youve done this:
"I've spent many years avoiding the problem."
youre afraid he'll flip out.

now think about this:
" I just want wellness for my two kids."

is your son breaking open a bottle to try them some form of wellness?
its going to get a crapton worse over time IF the children keep being exposed to it.

NYCDoglvr

This alone would make me grab the kids and head for the hills. The vast majority of alcoholics come from homes where one or more parents was alcoholic.

PerSe

Thank you for that encouragement Maudcat.

I was so surprised by what he said. I did not want to make a big deal out of it at the time, there in the store, so I just kind of let it go. (Wow - a reduced version of my whole life right there.) But, I have talked to both of them about alcohol and drugs and I try to make it an open dialogue. I know there is some cognitive dissonance within them regarding alcohol because they see - and they TOTALLY notice - their dad's heavy drinking. But I tell them it is totally normal to not drink at all. And it is normal for adults to drink a moderate amount. But until they are 21, their brains are still growing and it is unsafe for them to drink any alcohol at all. So, although I did not really respond significantly to his words in the grocery store, I do try my best to have an open dialogue about alcohol. It seems as though it is all for naught since they follow examples far more than they follow words. Plus I just dread them asking well does dad drink too much? They never have. In fact, my 7YO kind of pre-emptively says sometimes, "Dad does not drink too much. He only drinks a little." And my older 10YO will say "Yeah, dad only drinks a little." Then they look at me to see what I will say. And that is when I have no words.

honeypig

It doesn't seem to me that much good can come of this "emperor's new clothes" kind of thinking that is being ingrained at such a young age...

I am not a parent, but I think I'd be concerned about my kids not learning to properly distinguish between what is truth and what is fantasy. How will this serve them when they are adults, and they are unable to see the disconnect between what others SAY they are doing and what they are in reality doing, or between what they themselves SAY they are doing and what they are in reality doing?

I've found that a large part of the troubles I've had over the years came from exactly that--I would listen to the words while ignoring the actions, and it has kept me trapped in relationships of various types well past the point where someone w/the ability to call a spade a spade would long since have gone out the door.

I'm guessing you've already seen this part of the forum: Adult Children of Addicted/Alcoholic Parents - SoberRecovery : Alcoholism Drug Addiction Help and Information Maybe you'd like to pose this question there and see what sort of replies you get, straight from the horse's mouth.

Maudcat

I think that when we minimize the addiction in the interest of keeping things normal (when it is anything but) we give the addiction power.
I see this with my mom and sib all the time.
My mom says:
He only drinks beer (alcohol is alcohol, and btw, it's not accurate. He drinks beer and cheap whiskey.)
He's home at night (yah, completely tanked.)
He would be fine if he only met the right woman (omigod, I can't even!)
I know, mom is deep in denial and you are not, and I say these things more for shaking my head value than anything.
I guess I would recommend that you keep going to Al-Anon meetings.
Find a meeting that you like and fits you. The experience, strength and hope you will find there is amazing.