Love, Betrayal and Blackouts!
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Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 11
Love, Betrayal and Blackouts!
Hi all, nice to meet you guys. Hope everyone is doing well.
My ex girlfriend and I were together for 4 years. We were a team and best friends. It was the healthiest relationship I have ever been in or so I believed. I have never been as happy. I also became her manager a year into our relationship and we had each other's back in every way. It was magical and I would have bet everything on us going the distance. I liked her as well as loved her and enjoyed her company immensely. When you know, you know and I truly knew!! We treated one another with respect, kindness and love.
A year or so into our relationship she got blackout drunk and I didn't know that she had a drinking problem. She was violent, abusive and really uncharacteristically mean.
When she woke up the next day, I told her I was not going to be in this type of relationship again as my ex wife was abusive and had a drinking problem too. I meant it and even though I loved her I had worked on self love and self respect to have walked away if need be. She cried hard and had remorse and regret and I believed her when she said it would not happen again and she would monitor her drinking and limit herself to two glasses. She was great for 6 months then it happened again. By this time I was more in love with her than ever and had entered the realms of codependency. I am honest and observant enough to have recognized that but also realized that other than these black out episodes we never argued and always had light fun and laughter and love. It was a tricky codependency because it didn't interfere with our lives negatively.
After 4-5 more blackouts which got progressively worse over the next 2 years, she acknowledged she had a drinking problem and told me she would give up completely and go to AA. During these blackouts she would say the most awful things and get increasingly violent. She would use my vulnerabilities against me which hurt a lot but I always ended up forgiving her when she would cry and apologize the next day.
Throughout this time she never gave up smoking weed. I frowned upon it but was mindful not to be controlling so I just advised her that there may well be an issue if she needs weed everyday but she paid no mind to that and justified it siting it's medicinal benefits.
Just this year we returned from Coachella and when we got back home she was starting ridiculous arguments with me and being aggressive and crying and acting completely unreasonable. I knew I was in for the usual cycle for the next 24-36 hrs of fighting, verbal abuse, violence, sadness, remorse, crying and forgiveness. Though I handled each episode much more lovingly as time went by throughout the relationship and reacted far less, her episodes got progressively worse and more extreme. On this occasion she cut herself really deeply after spraining her wrist by punching my head and threatened to call the cops on me for her injured wrist, which of course made no sense.
I finally told her, the next day, after getting her medical attention etc that she had to go to rehab. I had been saving up for a ring to marry her but this was more important. I loved her and didn't want her to end up killing herself during a blackout. She reluctantly agreed to go so I had hope that she could get the help she needed to put an end to these mad episodes.
On the drive there we both cried and she was so so terrified that it was very hard for me not to turn the car around and go back home as she had asked repeatedly. I went through with it as I felt hopeless without the right help and I loved her so much I didn't want her to go through this anymore and of course I didn't want this suffering anymore. The blackouts had become unbearable and more frequent, now happening every 2-3 months.
She asked me if I would wait for her for the 30 days of rehab and asked if I promised I wouldn't leave her. I told her I am committed to her and will do whatever it takes to get her healthy. I told her I will stand by her no matter what.
She called me in the morning and evening and was very sweet and I would tell her how proud of her I am and be as supportive as possible without ever expressing how hard this all was for me. I kept it quiet that I had found dozens of small bottles of vodka around the house when i was getting rid of all the weed she had in random parts of the house. It broke my heart that I had probably been lied to many more times than I will ever know about. Ultimately, I wanted her to get well and come home to the loving home filled with amazing memories we shared together. I wanted to marry her and of course wanted her to get well enough so that one day we could have children together, which we spoke of often.
One day, after a week in rehab she turned on me and became cold and distant on the phone. She was very angry but didn't seem to know why. They diagnosed her with paranoid personality disorder and put her on a cocktail of meds. She also uncovered that she had been sexually abused by her mom when she was a little girl. Of course all I could do was try to show her support and understanding and listen to her.
I was pretty confused about her anger towards me but went to visit her for a session with her and her assigned therapist. When I got into the office I totally felt ambushed. She started attacking me and the therapist told me that this was clearly a codependent, abusive relationship and I had been enabling her.
I was shocked that my girl betrayed me by whatever she had made up to make the therapist think this. Codependent? Yes, I will accept that there was some codependency there but abusive??? I held her in the highest regard and didn't verbally abuse her, never mind physically. I am a trained fighter and would never ever hit a woman no matter what. Even when I refrained her in the midst of her violent tantrums I was very gentle with her. As for enabling her, I was the one that told her she needed help and drove her to rehab and of course paid for it!
Anyway, it was all downhill from there. I defended myself and my girl got more and more angry and accused me of the craziest falsehoods which made zero sense. Next week same type of thing and the last week, on her birthday she told me "I am not in love with you anymore".
I was crushed and in shock. We were always in love and everyone of our friends wanted our relationship. It was the truest love I ever experienced. How could someone who was so loving and warm suddenly become so distant? What was the reason? I know I was not the best husband to my ex wife but to this girl, I gave her all of me. I was very loving, sweet, loyal and took care of her in so many ways. I put her before me which I had never done before. We were happy most of the time and made incredible, beautiful memories, the two of us, my daughter (When she would visit) and our dogs. We honestly laughed together daily and I thought we were very comfortable being ourselves with each other. The attraction and sex life was always really good between us too. It was insane that I was sitting in this office trying to sell our love and happiness to the person I had shared it with. She told me she had been unhappy for a long time and hiding it because she was scared of me. Again, this made no sense. Why would she be scared of me? I was so tender towards her. Why would she suddenly forget that we had a great relationship filled with great times? It's like she had forgotten everything good we had together and was just angry and mean, but this time not blacked out but sober.
She told me she was going to sober living and had gotten a 1 year scholarship there. She wanted time to grow and heal from childhood traumas and fix her drinking and weed problem etc. I asked if she meant she wanted me to wait for her and she said no. She said when i'm done we will see what happens but for now I have to focus on recovery and myself.
I was very hurt and of course I am an alpha male so my ego kicked in and I told her well i'm not going to just wait around and see what happens and what you decide in a year from now.
She came to move her stuff out a few weeks ago and she broke down and had the shakes. I went to her and hugged her. The hug felt like our connection and love never left. Tears fell down both of our faces and we each wiped one another's tears. It was real all along and energy be faked. Her monitor who was with her refused to give us a minute in private to talk but my ex insisted and finally she begrudgingly gave us some space. She is under a very tight watch at her sober living and has people telling her what to do and what to feel all the time.
We had a very sweet chat and it felt like there was hope after all. It felt like the love was alive and somehow, some way we would find our way back to one another.
I saw her a week later for lunch at my house, which of course was our house and she was cold and mechanical. I didn't push as I didn't want to make her feel pressured or uncomfortable but she was not the same person as the week prior. It was very weird.
Then there was a week of silence and I saw on her instagram she was out on a date with this trust fund baby (50 year old) she had met in rehab. Of course my next door neighbor knows his ex wife and says he is a big user and abuser of women and only went to rehab to get back into his parents good graces so he wouldn't lose access to the trust fund. He has access to lot's of Hollywood connections so now that she has decided to be an actor I guess she thinks this will benefit her. The thing is, she was not this opportunistic immoral person when she was with me at all. She had integrity, at least about stuff like that. I was so hurt, I called her and asked WTH?? She told me it's not my business and that we are done so I have no right to ask. I told her to never contact me again and shove trying to make amends with me when that time ultimately comes... basically that was that. She blocked my 12 year old that she had an amazing relationship with too on Instagram that day. That coupled with her with another man is pretty much my threshold.
She couldn't give me a real reason of why she was not in love with me or what I had done to deserve being treated this way.
I will say that she is very committed to her sobriety but I don't recognize who she is. She was not this cold unfeeling person capable of such cruelty. We had a very sweet, loving, supportive bond. It felt real. Was I delusional?? So confused and hurt. How can she not even care about our dogs. Especially one of them who she brought into the relationship and she had had her since the dog was 3 months old and is now 15 years of age. She absolutely loved these dogs!
She won't pee without her therapist's permission and I must move on or I will die from the pain of this but I just want to understand...how is it possible for a person to change that much that quickly? Is this the real her? Was she the real her when she was with me? Was I fooled and being used this whole time? Please let me know your thoughts and thank you so much for reading.
My ex girlfriend and I were together for 4 years. We were a team and best friends. It was the healthiest relationship I have ever been in or so I believed. I have never been as happy. I also became her manager a year into our relationship and we had each other's back in every way. It was magical and I would have bet everything on us going the distance. I liked her as well as loved her and enjoyed her company immensely. When you know, you know and I truly knew!! We treated one another with respect, kindness and love.
A year or so into our relationship she got blackout drunk and I didn't know that she had a drinking problem. She was violent, abusive and really uncharacteristically mean.
When she woke up the next day, I told her I was not going to be in this type of relationship again as my ex wife was abusive and had a drinking problem too. I meant it and even though I loved her I had worked on self love and self respect to have walked away if need be. She cried hard and had remorse and regret and I believed her when she said it would not happen again and she would monitor her drinking and limit herself to two glasses. She was great for 6 months then it happened again. By this time I was more in love with her than ever and had entered the realms of codependency. I am honest and observant enough to have recognized that but also realized that other than these black out episodes we never argued and always had light fun and laughter and love. It was a tricky codependency because it didn't interfere with our lives negatively.
After 4-5 more blackouts which got progressively worse over the next 2 years, she acknowledged she had a drinking problem and told me she would give up completely and go to AA. During these blackouts she would say the most awful things and get increasingly violent. She would use my vulnerabilities against me which hurt a lot but I always ended up forgiving her when she would cry and apologize the next day.
Throughout this time she never gave up smoking weed. I frowned upon it but was mindful not to be controlling so I just advised her that there may well be an issue if she needs weed everyday but she paid no mind to that and justified it siting it's medicinal benefits.
Just this year we returned from Coachella and when we got back home she was starting ridiculous arguments with me and being aggressive and crying and acting completely unreasonable. I knew I was in for the usual cycle for the next 24-36 hrs of fighting, verbal abuse, violence, sadness, remorse, crying and forgiveness. Though I handled each episode much more lovingly as time went by throughout the relationship and reacted far less, her episodes got progressively worse and more extreme. On this occasion she cut herself really deeply after spraining her wrist by punching my head and threatened to call the cops on me for her injured wrist, which of course made no sense.
I finally told her, the next day, after getting her medical attention etc that she had to go to rehab. I had been saving up for a ring to marry her but this was more important. I loved her and didn't want her to end up killing herself during a blackout. She reluctantly agreed to go so I had hope that she could get the help she needed to put an end to these mad episodes.
On the drive there we both cried and she was so so terrified that it was very hard for me not to turn the car around and go back home as she had asked repeatedly. I went through with it as I felt hopeless without the right help and I loved her so much I didn't want her to go through this anymore and of course I didn't want this suffering anymore. The blackouts had become unbearable and more frequent, now happening every 2-3 months.
She asked me if I would wait for her for the 30 days of rehab and asked if I promised I wouldn't leave her. I told her I am committed to her and will do whatever it takes to get her healthy. I told her I will stand by her no matter what.
She called me in the morning and evening and was very sweet and I would tell her how proud of her I am and be as supportive as possible without ever expressing how hard this all was for me. I kept it quiet that I had found dozens of small bottles of vodka around the house when i was getting rid of all the weed she had in random parts of the house. It broke my heart that I had probably been lied to many more times than I will ever know about. Ultimately, I wanted her to get well and come home to the loving home filled with amazing memories we shared together. I wanted to marry her and of course wanted her to get well enough so that one day we could have children together, which we spoke of often.
One day, after a week in rehab she turned on me and became cold and distant on the phone. She was very angry but didn't seem to know why. They diagnosed her with paranoid personality disorder and put her on a cocktail of meds. She also uncovered that she had been sexually abused by her mom when she was a little girl. Of course all I could do was try to show her support and understanding and listen to her.
I was pretty confused about her anger towards me but went to visit her for a session with her and her assigned therapist. When I got into the office I totally felt ambushed. She started attacking me and the therapist told me that this was clearly a codependent, abusive relationship and I had been enabling her.
I was shocked that my girl betrayed me by whatever she had made up to make the therapist think this. Codependent? Yes, I will accept that there was some codependency there but abusive??? I held her in the highest regard and didn't verbally abuse her, never mind physically. I am a trained fighter and would never ever hit a woman no matter what. Even when I refrained her in the midst of her violent tantrums I was very gentle with her. As for enabling her, I was the one that told her she needed help and drove her to rehab and of course paid for it!
Anyway, it was all downhill from there. I defended myself and my girl got more and more angry and accused me of the craziest falsehoods which made zero sense. Next week same type of thing and the last week, on her birthday she told me "I am not in love with you anymore".
I was crushed and in shock. We were always in love and everyone of our friends wanted our relationship. It was the truest love I ever experienced. How could someone who was so loving and warm suddenly become so distant? What was the reason? I know I was not the best husband to my ex wife but to this girl, I gave her all of me. I was very loving, sweet, loyal and took care of her in so many ways. I put her before me which I had never done before. We were happy most of the time and made incredible, beautiful memories, the two of us, my daughter (When she would visit) and our dogs. We honestly laughed together daily and I thought we were very comfortable being ourselves with each other. The attraction and sex life was always really good between us too. It was insane that I was sitting in this office trying to sell our love and happiness to the person I had shared it with. She told me she had been unhappy for a long time and hiding it because she was scared of me. Again, this made no sense. Why would she be scared of me? I was so tender towards her. Why would she suddenly forget that we had a great relationship filled with great times? It's like she had forgotten everything good we had together and was just angry and mean, but this time not blacked out but sober.
She told me she was going to sober living and had gotten a 1 year scholarship there. She wanted time to grow and heal from childhood traumas and fix her drinking and weed problem etc. I asked if she meant she wanted me to wait for her and she said no. She said when i'm done we will see what happens but for now I have to focus on recovery and myself.
I was very hurt and of course I am an alpha male so my ego kicked in and I told her well i'm not going to just wait around and see what happens and what you decide in a year from now.
She came to move her stuff out a few weeks ago and she broke down and had the shakes. I went to her and hugged her. The hug felt like our connection and love never left. Tears fell down both of our faces and we each wiped one another's tears. It was real all along and energy be faked. Her monitor who was with her refused to give us a minute in private to talk but my ex insisted and finally she begrudgingly gave us some space. She is under a very tight watch at her sober living and has people telling her what to do and what to feel all the time.
We had a very sweet chat and it felt like there was hope after all. It felt like the love was alive and somehow, some way we would find our way back to one another.
I saw her a week later for lunch at my house, which of course was our house and she was cold and mechanical. I didn't push as I didn't want to make her feel pressured or uncomfortable but she was not the same person as the week prior. It was very weird.
Then there was a week of silence and I saw on her instagram she was out on a date with this trust fund baby (50 year old) she had met in rehab. Of course my next door neighbor knows his ex wife and says he is a big user and abuser of women and only went to rehab to get back into his parents good graces so he wouldn't lose access to the trust fund. He has access to lot's of Hollywood connections so now that she has decided to be an actor I guess she thinks this will benefit her. The thing is, she was not this opportunistic immoral person when she was with me at all. She had integrity, at least about stuff like that. I was so hurt, I called her and asked WTH?? She told me it's not my business and that we are done so I have no right to ask. I told her to never contact me again and shove trying to make amends with me when that time ultimately comes... basically that was that. She blocked my 12 year old that she had an amazing relationship with too on Instagram that day. That coupled with her with another man is pretty much my threshold.
She couldn't give me a real reason of why she was not in love with me or what I had done to deserve being treated this way.
I will say that she is very committed to her sobriety but I don't recognize who she is. She was not this cold unfeeling person capable of such cruelty. We had a very sweet, loving, supportive bond. It felt real. Was I delusional?? So confused and hurt. How can she not even care about our dogs. Especially one of them who she brought into the relationship and she had had her since the dog was 3 months old and is now 15 years of age. She absolutely loved these dogs!
She won't pee without her therapist's permission and I must move on or I will die from the pain of this but I just want to understand...how is it possible for a person to change that much that quickly? Is this the real her? Was she the real her when she was with me? Was I fooled and being used this whole time? Please let me know your thoughts and thank you so much for reading.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 10
I am so sorry you are going and have had to go through this !
I'm new to this and can't really offer advice but I just wanted to offer my praise that you did all you could do to help her.
You are the reason she went for help and so far has become sober.. so be proud of yourself for getting her there and caring so much !
The world needs more people like you!
I'm new to this and can't really offer advice but I just wanted to offer my praise that you did all you could do to help her.
You are the reason she went for help and so far has become sober.. so be proud of yourself for getting her there and caring so much !
The world needs more people like you!
Member
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: California
Posts: 228
Thanks for sharing your story.
I'm wondering... what happened in rehab that caused them to diagnose her with Paranoid Personality Disorder? That's a big diagnosis that is usually diagnosed after observing behavior patters over time.
What medications did they put her on?
They could have had an effect on her behavior and thinking. The personality disorder diagnosis is seeming weird to me, as is the overbearing behavior of the therapist.
I'm wondering... what happened in rehab that caused them to diagnose her with Paranoid Personality Disorder? That's a big diagnosis that is usually diagnosed after observing behavior patters over time.
What medications did they put her on?
They could have had an effect on her behavior and thinking. The personality disorder diagnosis is seeming weird to me, as is the overbearing behavior of the therapist.
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Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: California
Posts: 228
Also, what do you mean she "uncovered" sexual abuse by her mother?
Is this something she remembers from childhood, or did she "remember" this due to some kind of regression therapy?
The rehab and sober living arrangements you are describing seem really off to me.
Is this something she remembers from childhood, or did she "remember" this due to some kind of regression therapy?
The rehab and sober living arrangements you are describing seem really off to me.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 11
reply
Originally Posted by WhiteFeathers 
Thanks for sharing your story.
I'm wondering... what happened in rehab that caused them to diagnose her with Paranoid Personality Disorder? That's a big diagnosis that is usually diagnosed after observing behavior patters over time.
What medications did they put her on?
They could have had an effect on her behavior and thinking. The personality disorder diagnosis is seeming weird to me, as is the overbearing behavior of the therapist.
I'm wondering... what happened in rehab that caused them to diagnose her with Paranoid Personality Disorder? That's a big diagnosis that is usually diagnosed after observing behavior patters over time.
What medications did they put her on?
They could have had an effect on her behavior and thinking. The personality disorder diagnosis is seeming weird to me, as is the overbearing behavior of the therapist.
She never told me the medications she is on as she had already started to disconnect with me and I didn't want to appear too pushy. I'm assuming anti psychotics.
I agree that the overbearing therapist is extremely odd. They don't even know me and have pushed her into totally cutting me out of her life. She literally does not make a decision without speaking to this therapist.
Also the sober living arrangement is fishy to me too. She is a very pretty girl and semi famous so maybe that's why they gave her a full ride for a year or perhaps the guy she is hanging out with now paid for it? I have no idea but I agree that it doesn't fully add up.
She always mentioned that she had an inkling that she was sexually abused by her mother in some capacity but only really committed to that story whilst in rehab. She has been doing EMDR? therapy recently too.
Either way, i'm inclined to assume that they run their racket over there and as long as they have her sober they don't seem to give much thought to any collateral damage caused. If I even tried to communicate these things to her she would get defensive and run the other direction. I think it is a lost cause now and I just have to stop ruminating on the why's and how's and try to focus on myself and grow into someone who stops attracting these painful situations. It still sometimes feels so far from any sort of reality and at times I honestly think i'm in some kind of nightmare that I will hopefully be waking up from.
Thank you for taking the time to read and write. Much appreciated.
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Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: California
Posts: 228
OK, I'm glad you are putting your focus on your own healing. That's really good.
But your story is throwing me for a loop! You never mentioned any symptoms of Paranoid Personality Disorder in your original post. The problems were caused by blackouts wherein she became violent and abusive.
Was she in a blackout on the way home from Coachella? Paranoid Personality Disorder usually makes it very difficult for people to form close bonds-- you say she had a close bond with you as well as your daughter.
Why did you guys choose a dual diagnosis treatment center? Was she already diagnosed with a mental illness before rehab?
It also seems unthinkable that they would diagnose her with Paranoid Personality Disorder and then corroborate her paranoid delusions that you were abusing her.
Also, people with PPD are very distrusting of doctors and people trying to help them in general. That's one reason it's difficult to treat. But it seems like she trusted them without question.
Huh. Anyway... a lot of red flags. I live in L.A. too, and my first thought was, scientology rehab? Nah, they don't believe in psychiatric drugs.
Just... weird.
I wish you peace in your healing.
But your story is throwing me for a loop! You never mentioned any symptoms of Paranoid Personality Disorder in your original post. The problems were caused by blackouts wherein she became violent and abusive.
Was she in a blackout on the way home from Coachella? Paranoid Personality Disorder usually makes it very difficult for people to form close bonds-- you say she had a close bond with you as well as your daughter.
Why did you guys choose a dual diagnosis treatment center? Was she already diagnosed with a mental illness before rehab?
It also seems unthinkable that they would diagnose her with Paranoid Personality Disorder and then corroborate her paranoid delusions that you were abusing her.
Also, people with PPD are very distrusting of doctors and people trying to help them in general. That's one reason it's difficult to treat. But it seems like she trusted them without question.
Huh. Anyway... a lot of red flags. I live in L.A. too, and my first thought was, scientology rehab? Nah, they don't believe in psychiatric drugs.
Just... weird.
I wish you peace in your healing.
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 13,560
Keep in mind, when someone goes to rehab, there is only one person there they are interested in, their client. They are not really interested in how this affects you, and they got her into sober living for a year, so they likely think any and all contact from her previous life should be left behind while she focuses on herself.
I hate to say this, and I know you are hurt, but alcoholism mixed with mental illness has a very low cure rate. You say you have a 12 year old she has already hurt. I have a child of that same age. Your #1 priority needs to be your child, and what is best for them. Having a mentally ill addict who could relapse at any point is not good to have in your child's life. They need stability and constant love, not chaos.
I say this gently because I know it hurts. I would say to put the focus on YOU. Get some therapy yourself, so that when you move forward it will be in a happy and HEALTHY relationship that you deserve.
I hate to say this, and I know you are hurt, but alcoholism mixed with mental illness has a very low cure rate. You say you have a 12 year old she has already hurt. I have a child of that same age. Your #1 priority needs to be your child, and what is best for them. Having a mentally ill addict who could relapse at any point is not good to have in your child's life. They need stability and constant love, not chaos.
I say this gently because I know it hurts. I would say to put the focus on YOU. Get some therapy yourself, so that when you move forward it will be in a happy and HEALTHY relationship that you deserve.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 11
Thanks White Feathers! Thanks Hopeful.
You r right. It all seems off. She displayed paranoia throughout but it was only unmanageable when she blacked out and threw wild unfounded accusations at me. It still seems hasty to diagnose within 2 weeks and put her on these meds.
Her sponsor is a therapist there so she recommended this place. I had no idea that they would help turn her against me and I as a self reflective, honest person didn't give her a reason to. I loved her and forgave her and without warning she turned on me. She completely followed their instructions right away without question it seems. So maybe this is not in line with the symptoms of PPD. She also did have an incredibly close bond with my daughter and I. Anyway, thanks for your insight and encouragement. Nothing more for me to do now. I gave it 100% and ended up being the one hurt. I won't stay in victim mode as it's not who I am. It has all been very shocking and unexpected is all.
You r right. It all seems off. She displayed paranoia throughout but it was only unmanageable when she blacked out and threw wild unfounded accusations at me. It still seems hasty to diagnose within 2 weeks and put her on these meds.
Her sponsor is a therapist there so she recommended this place. I had no idea that they would help turn her against me and I as a self reflective, honest person didn't give her a reason to. I loved her and forgave her and without warning she turned on me. She completely followed their instructions right away without question it seems. So maybe this is not in line with the symptoms of PPD. She also did have an incredibly close bond with my daughter and I. Anyway, thanks for your insight and encouragement. Nothing more for me to do now. I gave it 100% and ended up being the one hurt. I won't stay in victim mode as it's not who I am. It has all been very shocking and unexpected is all.
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 2,052
If you were duped...
...it was you that duped you. You shared that already had an abusive ex-wife who was an alcoholic. You replaced her with another and after finding out she was the same you didn't leave, you doubled down.
I share this only because it's very, very important that you acknowledge that you are the person with the problem, not her, and that this forum here is to help you, not her.
If you can be honest that you are in this situation 100 percent because of you and your decisions there is help here and at Alanon meetings which I highly recommend for you, along with counseling for co-dependency.
Please understand this comes from somebody who is attracted to the same kind of women that you clearly think are a good decision. I was unable to improve my life until I began to focus on me and my decision-making, and not on her. All your posts here indicate you are currently concentrating on her and not on yourself.
I truly wish you the best, but sure wish you weren't dragging your daughter into this cow poop with you-- that's the most sad part of all of this-- you are taking her down with you and this woman.
Ugh.
Cyranoak
I share this only because it's very, very important that you acknowledge that you are the person with the problem, not her, and that this forum here is to help you, not her.
If you can be honest that you are in this situation 100 percent because of you and your decisions there is help here and at Alanon meetings which I highly recommend for you, along with counseling for co-dependency.
Please understand this comes from somebody who is attracted to the same kind of women that you clearly think are a good decision. I was unable to improve my life until I began to focus on me and my decision-making, and not on her. All your posts here indicate you are currently concentrating on her and not on yourself.
I truly wish you the best, but sure wish you weren't dragging your daughter into this cow poop with you-- that's the most sad part of all of this-- you are taking her down with you and this woman.
Ugh.
Cyranoak
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Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 2,393
****She couldn't give me a real reason of why she was not in love with me or what I had done to deserve being treated this way.****
It really is this simple = it's bc she's an alcoholic with alcoholic thinking, now the torture of an alcoholic in recovery, and possibly a mental disorder on top of the alcoholism to-boot.
It really is this simple = it's bc she's an alcoholic with alcoholic thinking, now the torture of an alcoholic in recovery, and possibly a mental disorder on top of the alcoholism to-boot.
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: W Washington
Posts: 11,589
My ex girlfriend and I were together for 4 years. We were a team and best friends. It was the healthiest relationship I have ever been in or so I believed. I have never been as happy. I also became her manager a year into our relationship and we had each other's back in every way. It was magical and I would have bet everything on us going the distance. I liked her as well as loved her and enjoyed her company immensely. When you know, you know and I truly knew!! We treated one another with respect, kindness and love.
A year or so into our relationship she got blackout drunk and I didn't know that she had a drinking problem. She was violent, abusive and really uncharacteristically mean.
ok, so if a YEAR in, she became violent and mean, then it's not possible that you had 4 years of bliss. time after time she repeated this behavior, becoming increasingly violent and you stated that you responded by being MORE loving, not establishing any boundaries.
She started attacking me and the therapist told me that this was clearly a codependent, abusive relationship and I had been enabling her.
I was shocked that my girl betrayed me by whatever she had made up to make the therapist think this.
it WAS abusive. it WAS codependent. you DID enable. that is not betrayal, that is truth. you two had a very toxic relationship. and there was a child involved in this chaos. it is truly best for both of you that you are now apart. and can begin your own healing.
A year or so into our relationship she got blackout drunk and I didn't know that she had a drinking problem. She was violent, abusive and really uncharacteristically mean.
ok, so if a YEAR in, she became violent and mean, then it's not possible that you had 4 years of bliss. time after time she repeated this behavior, becoming increasingly violent and you stated that you responded by being MORE loving, not establishing any boundaries.
She started attacking me and the therapist told me that this was clearly a codependent, abusive relationship and I had been enabling her.
I was shocked that my girl betrayed me by whatever she had made up to make the therapist think this.
it WAS abusive. it WAS codependent. you DID enable. that is not betrayal, that is truth. you two had a very toxic relationship. and there was a child involved in this chaos. it is truly best for both of you that you are now apart. and can begin your own healing.
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Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 11
Originally Posted by Cyranoak
...it was you that duped you. You shared that already had an abusive ex-wife who was an alcoholic. You replaced her with another and after finding out she was the same you didn't leave, you doubled down.
I share this only because it's very, very important that you acknowledge that you are the person with the problem, not her, and that this forum here is to help you, not her.
If you can be honest that you are in this situation 100 percent because of you and your decisions there is help here and at Alanon meetings which I highly recommend for you, along with counseling for co-dependency.
Please understand this comes from somebody who is attracted to the same kind of women that you clearly think are a good decision. I was unable to improve my life until I began to focus on me and my decision-making, and not on her. All your posts here indicate you are currently concentrating on her and not on yourself.
I truly wish you the best, but sure wish you weren't dragging your daughter into this cow poop with you-- that's the most sad part of all of this-- you are taking her down with you and this woman.
Ugh.
Cyranoak
I share this only because it's very, very important that you acknowledge that you are the person with the problem, not her, and that this forum here is to help you, not her.
If you can be honest that you are in this situation 100 percent because of you and your decisions there is help here and at Alanon meetings which I highly recommend for you, along with counseling for co-dependency.
Please understand this comes from somebody who is attracted to the same kind of women that you clearly think are a good decision. I was unable to improve my life until I began to focus on me and my decision-making, and not on her. All your posts here indicate you are currently concentrating on her and not on yourself.
I truly wish you the best, but sure wish you weren't dragging your daughter into this cow poop with you-- that's the most sad part of all of this-- you are taking her down with you and this woman.
Ugh.
Cyranoak
As for my daughter, I am very protective of her and I messed up by being in this relationship. Thankfully as far as my kid is concerned she has never ever witness my ex in a blackout state and never saw any of the dark stuff. She stays with me for 3 months of the year during 2 separate trips and my ex never did anything off in front of her. The only damage done was when she blocked my kid on Instagram and the fact that we aren't together hurt my little girl of course as she looked up to her and loved her. That's enough damage and I get that but don't think for one second I would have allowed anyone to harm or hurt my daughter by being drunk or crazy in front of her.
I am the one with my own problems and she is the one with her problems. I get it and appreciate your perspective but at the same time I didn't do any of these mean things to her. I was honest with her and sincere. I went above and beyond...and again I get there lies the problem with me... It was my own fault for sticking around. It was tricky because we were really connected and close and things were beautiful between us 95% of the time. The fights only happened when she blacked out which averaged out at a few times a year.
I am justifying things but please understand it freaking hurts to be told so many lies and promises.
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Originally Posted by AnvilheadII
My ex girlfriend and I were together for 4 years. We were a team and best friends. It was the healthiest relationship I have ever been in or so I believed. I have never been as happy. I also became her manager a year into our relationship and we had each other's back in every way. It was magical and I would have bet everything on us going the distance. I liked her as well as loved her and enjoyed her company immensely. When you know, you know and I truly knew!! We treated one another with respect, kindness and love.
A year or so into our relationship she got blackout drunk and I didn't know that she had a drinking problem. She was violent, abusive and really uncharacteristically mean.
ok, so if a YEAR in, she became violent and mean, then it's not possible that you had 4 years of bliss. time after time she repeated this behavior, becoming increasingly violent and you stated that you responded by being MORE loving, not establishing any boundaries.
A year or so into our relationship she got blackout drunk and I didn't know that she had a drinking problem. She was violent, abusive and really uncharacteristically mean.
ok, so if a YEAR in, she became violent and mean, then it's not possible that you had 4 years of bliss. time after time she repeated this behavior, becoming increasingly violent and you stated that you responded by being MORE loving, not establishing any boundaries.
She started attacking me and the therapist told me that this was clearly a codependent, abusive relationship and I had been enabling her.
I was shocked that my girl betrayed me by whatever she had made up to make the therapist think this.
Originally Posted by AnvilheadII
it WAS abusive. it WAS codependent. you DID enable. that is not betrayal, that is truth. you two had a very toxic relationship. and there was a child involved in this chaos. it is truly best for both of you that you are now apart. and can begin your own healing.
I admitted the codependency part and take my share of responsibility for that and am working on myself hardcore.
Enabling her? I did because I stayed and didn't stick to my threat of leaving. I thought it would go away if she did the work and stayed in AA. I was lied to repeatedly, it wasn't as simple as you make out and I would have done anything to stop the blackouts from happening. It's not like I drank or would take her boozing. I was firm on her not drinking but ultimately didn't have control of it. I believed her that she was ok with pot and it wouldn't influence drinking. Because of the infrequency of the bad times it made everything tricky and unexpected. She did betray me with the repetition of broken promises. She hurt my kid, she hurt me, she made up lies about me cheating and being abusive etc and much later retracted all of that but yes she did betray me. I was good to her. She hadn't ended it with me and cheated on me with a guy in rehab who I found out paid for her sober living for a year. This is betrayal and hurtful. I was 100% loyal and faithful.
My child was never involved in the chaos until the very end with the instagram incident. She never saw any of the the bad times at all but still I will be much more careful before choosing another partner which won't be for a long time.
Thanks for your help.
Last edited by DesertEyes; 07-21-2017 at 09:48 PM. Reason: Fixed broken quote.
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Posts: 573
I gotta tell ya Duped, it sounds to me like God or the universe or whatever did you a huge favor by removing her from your life. She has issues. You do as well. (I have my own so I'm not judging. I have tons) what I'm trying to say is that this maybe so much isn't a loss for you as much as an opportunity to grow and heal and gain some insight. It sounds like you're on your way. Just because we love someone doesn't mean the relationship we have with them isn't toxic. It happens all the time. The heart wants what it wants and often times will steer the mind with an iron fist in a velvet glove. I've been there, too. Wishing you well.
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Originally Posted by Ladybird579
It was abusive cos she was abusive . Noone said you were.
Either way, it's a process. When you go through a break up like this after 4 years together, of course it's not that easy to keep the focus solely on yourself and what you may have contributed without feeling hurt by your partners actions. I am conscious of that and will get there. I am not one to shy away from the things that I need to deal with for my growth and am getting there at the fastest pace I can while remaining authentic with my feelings.
<3
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Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 773
Sorry you are going through this. You are not alone - my XAH tells everyone how abusive I was. Including me. I just refuse to discuss it. Addicts blame shift and accuse their loved ones all the time - it is a part of the course.
Count your blessings and let go - she is unavailable. It will take deleting her Instagram, unfriendinv her on social media and going full no contact. Take care of yourself and your child
Count your blessings and let go - she is unavailable. It will take deleting her Instagram, unfriendinv her on social media and going full no contact. Take care of yourself and your child
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Join Date: Jun 2016
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Posts: 202
Hi DupedBoy,
Your story is remarkably similar to some of what I went through with my ex. When I read your story I could relate to so so much of it ...
My relationship with my ex was exactly like that too. The first couple of years of our relationship were by far the best relationship I have ever had.
For the first two years there was zero abuse of me. In fact she was always very warm and kind to me the first two years.
After two years together, we both believed we had met the person we wanted to marry and have a family with.
Same thing happened here - my ex got blackout drunk about a year into the relationship and that was the first sign I saw that she had a problem.
My ex didn't get that way with me until we started living together. Before we started living together, she wasn't angry or abusive when she got blackout drunk.
She got blackout drunk twice before we started living together, and each time had an explanation for how it happened. She was on some medication that should not be combined with alcohol, but thought she could still drink somehow.
That is exactly what I said to my my ex the first time she ever abused me when she was drunk. I made it very clear that that behavior was absolutely not OK.
Oh man, I know exactly what that feels like. On days when my ex was not drinking, she was completely lovely. We almost never argued on days when she was not drinking. We laughed a lot and were warm and affectionate.
But when she drank it was like a Jeckyl and Hyde transformation. It scared me. When she was drunk she acted like a completely different person who was the opposite of her personality when she was sober.
One of the most difficult things as she started drinking more often was waking up in the morning and not knowing which version of her I would be dealing with by the end of the day. If she didn't drink, we had a happy day, zero arguments, zero disagreements. But if she drank, the day would often end in absolute mayhem. It was as if alcohol flipped a switch labelled "angry mode".
My ex eventually she admitted she had a problem, she got sober for a few months, made amends, the whole 9 yards.
I thought it was all behind us at that point, then she relapsed with alcohol, hard, and it was absolute mayhem again. She literally went from sober to completely out of control in a week. That relapse was terrifying to witness.
I experienced the same thing. The severity of the things she said when drunk got worse and worse, more and more hurtful.
I had told her about a really upsetting incident that I had been through when I was young, and she then used that as something against me to hurt me with one night when she was drunk.
The hardest thing about that is that it destroys trust - I had shared with her one of the most hurtful things I had ever been through, and in her drunken abusive state she turned that around and used it as a way to hurt me. I was absolutely appalled by that.
I saw the same thing with my ex. I would be shocked by her behavior and then the next drunken incident would be even more severe. It was like there was no bottom to it.
It eventually reached the point that her life was clearly at risk any time she drank, because it was as if absolutely anything could happen.
That is the twisted mentality of alcoholism, in which it somehow becomes your fault for putting your head in the way of her fist.
I also was terrified that my ex would die as a result of one of her blackout drunk incidents.
Her drinking became so out of control and her behavior when drunk so dangerous that it felt similar to living with a toddler who was obsessed with sticking a clothes hanger into electrical outlets - my life became being hypervigilant to her drinking.
She knew she was risking her life when she drank, but didn't seem to care - it was as if the self preservation instinct was completely over-ruled by her addiction to alcohol. She told me that she knew she was risking her life, but just kept drinking.
You did exactly the right thing. Part of it is realising when a drinker cannot see that their drinking has become unmanageable, but you could see that. Getting her to rehab was absolutely the right move. 
You're a good man. I told my ex the same thing - that I would stick by her 100% as long as she stayed committed to getting and staying sober.
Yes that is the trust thing again. When I realised how often my ex had been drinking, and found empty bottles hidden, I felt like a fool.
I reacted with compassion and thought "ok, well the problem is bigger than I thought".
That is very similar to my ex and I. She wanted to have a family and so did I. If not for her drinking, we would have been able to do that.
When we started living together, before the drinking got out of control, I was ready to start a family with her. But when we started living together the alcohol turned our home into absolute chaos, and there was no way I was going to bring a baby into that situation.
I hoped that my ex's wish to have a family would help her get sober. I told her that if she got sober, we could start a family, and I meant that. But ultimately instead of making healthy decisions that would allow that to happen, she chose alcohol again and again and again.
Oh man. This is pretty close to home for me in terms of what I went through.
I contacted my ex's doctor, and informed her doctor about the reality of her drinking.
My ex then told me that her doctor told said that I was co-dependent and some other adjectives.
A few days later I was then accused of being abusive towards my ex. In reality I had endured months of verbal and emotional abuse, then more and more frequent threats of domestic violence from her towards me, and then she had physically attacked me in our home while drunk.
This is an area in which I think that many men who are doing everything they can to support their alcoholic wife or girlfriend (while being subjected to escalating levels of verbal, emotional and physical abuse) get completely shafted by people who are supposedly trained to recognise the behavior of alcoholics and the lies they tell ... supposedly trained people should know better than to believe an angry alcoholic who has a history of abusing their boyfriend / husband when the alcoholic wife or girlfriend claims they are the victim.
If the roles were reversed, and a woman was supporting her alcoholic boyfriend or husband, and she was being abused by him when he was drunk, in the vast majority of cases that woman would be offered a lot of support.
If an angry alcoholic man claimed that he was the victim of abuse from his wife or girlfriend, when it is clear as day to anyone with half a brain that his claim of abuse from her had no evidence to back it up, and there was lots of evidence that the alcoholic man was the one being abusive, then his claim of false victimhood would not be believed.
But too many men are being blamed in situations where the man is the victim of his wife or girlfriend's drunken abuse.
This is a problem ...
If a man claims "I am being abused by my wife / girlfriend", then the response to seems to be to ask what evidence there is of that alleged abuse from her to him. That is how it should be - any allegation of abuse, from either a man or a woman, is a very serious allegation and should be fully investigated.
If it is covert abuse, then any decent therapist can sit down with the man who is being abused and talk to him for an hour and figure out pretty quickly what is going on.
But in far too many cases (just one is too many), if a woman who is an alcoholic claims that she is the victim of abuse by her boyfriend or husband, the question "what evidence is there is of this alleged abuse by the man towards the woman ?" seems to be either not asked, or the man is not given the opportunity to defend himself against the false allegations of abuse. The man is simply hung out to dry and labelled an abuser.
One of the fundamental concepts in all civilised societies is the presumption of innocence - "innocent until proven guilty".
But in some cases of men who are victims of abuse and domestic violence from alcoholic women, if the alcoholic woman claims it is the man who is abusive, the man is then treated as if he is guilty of abuse, with no proper investigation into the allegations of abuse being made against him ... even if he is not a drinker and she is an alcoholic.
Instead, in some cases some people seem to appoint themselves as judge and jury, deny the man the right to defend himself against these false allegations, and then they execute the punishment against him by convincing his wife / girlfriend that the man is somehow the cause of her problems and that the only solution is for her to end all contact with him.
That is a complete disgrace.
A HYPOTHETICAL EXAMPLE
To see how grossly unfair that is, imagine this hypothetical scenario with the genders flipped ...
A man who is an angry abusive alcoholic goes into treatment. His wife has taken months of escalating verbal, emotional and physical abuse from him, but still loves him and remembers who he was before the alcohol and abuse started. She is enormously relieved that he is finally in treatment, where he can get the treatment he needs for the alcoholism.
She hopes and prays that once he is sober, he will return to the person he was before he disappeared down the rabbit hole of alcoholism. Some people will call that co-dependence, some will call it loyalty to the person who the alcoholic was before they started drinking. Some will call it having faith and not giving up on someone you love and care about. Everyone has the right to choose what is their limit, co-dependent or otherwise.
Many stories like that have a happy ending - the alcoholic husband gets help in treatment, gets into AA, changes his alcoholic thinking, make amends, and lives the rest of his life by those principles.
But in this hypothetical, when this alcoholic man goes into treatment, a few days later he suddenly becomes cold towards her, and blames her for his problems.
Then she is told that their relationship is codependent. She is then told that she is abusive (with no proper evidence of her being abusive, and no proper investigation of if she is abusive or not - when a proper investigation would reveal the abuse claims being made against his wife are false) ... and then she is told that her husband / boyfriend will not be having any further contact with her.
A group of people then rally around the alcoholic man, and he becomes utterly convinced that him that cutting off all contact with his wife / girlfriend is the only way "forward".
The reality is that the wife in this hypothetical has been falsely accused of abuse ... when she has been the opposite of abusive - she is the victim of his drunken abuse.
Either way you flip the genders, any person (male or female) being falsely accused of abuse is an absolutely horrendous thing.
But arguably far more grievous than a false allegation of abuse is the person who is falsely accused of abuse then being treated as if they are guilty of abuse even with no evidence of abuse by the person who is being falsely accused of abuse, and even when evidence exists that the person who is being falsely accused of abuse is in fact the victim of abuse from their alcoholic spouse.
Their marriage / relationship can be destroyed ... with the alcoholic spouse surrounded by people who appear to have the alcoholic utterly convinced that there is no other sensible course of action than what the alcoholic is doing.
Does that not enable the alcoholic to blame their sober spouse by allowing the alcoholic to accuse the sober spouse of abuse without properly investigating those allegations of abuse ?
THE ROLE OF TREATMENT CENTERS & THERAPISTS, AND THE ROLE OF THE LEGAL SYSTEM
Treatment centers and therapists are not courts. The role of treatment centers and therapists is to treat the alcoholism, not to make judgements of the sober spouse.
There is no place for anyone in society to make judgements of a sober spouse without displaying a proper understanding of the basic rules of legal evidence, or without a proper investigation of the evidence, or without the accused person being given the opportunity to defend themselves against any false allegations.
The Role of the Courts reads ...
----------------
"The justice system is the mechanism that upholds the rule of law. Our courts provide a forum to resolve disputes and to test and enforce laws in a fair and rational manner. The courts are an impartial forum, and judges are free to apply the law without regard to the government's wishes or the weight of public opinion. Court decisions are based on what the law says and what the evidence proves; there is no place in the courts for suspicion, bias or favouritism. This is why justice is often symbolized as a blindfolded figure balancing a set of scales, oblivious to anything that could detract from the pursuit of an outcome that is just and fair."
----------------
Historically, many states had a legal action called "alienation of affection" ...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alienation_of_affection
That page reads ...
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"To succeed on an alienation claim, the plaintiff has to show that (1) the marriage entailed love between the spouses in some degree; (2) the spousal love was alienated and destroyed; and (3) the defendant's malicious conduct contributed to or caused the loss of affection. It is not necessary to show that the defendant set out to destroy the marital relationship, but only that he or she intentionally engaged in acts which would foreseeably impact the marriage."
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The alienation of affection laws were removed in many states as no fault divorces became popular.
https://www.hg.org/article.asp?id=19936 reads ...
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"In a small minority of states, a spouse may sue a third party for willfully and maliciously interfering with the marital relationship. This interference results in winning away the love of a husband or wife from his/her spouse. This suit is usually brought against the adulterous spouse’s lover. Although, the statutes also allow for these claims to be filed against an in-law, relative, counselor, therapist, or clergy member who has talked the spouse into leaving the marriage. This type of claim is part of tort law, and is known as alienation of affection." ...
"There are some people, however, who argue that these torts help to preserve the sanctity of marriage, provide the injured spouse with a non-violent remedy to challenge the offending third party, and reinforce the state’s public policy to protect marital rights." ...
"Because most states have abolished alienation of affection lawsuits, some aggrieved spouses have tried various other civil actions" ... "The most common substitute is Intentional Infliction of Emotional Distress (IIED) claims. To prevail in an IIED claim, the plaintiff needs to prove the following:
• Intentional or reckless conduct;
• Extreme and outrageous conduct;
• That the emotional distress was caused by the wrongful conduct; and
• That severe emotional distress was evident."
----------------
Oh man, I truly feel for you. What you went through hurts in a way that is impossible to put into words.
So similar to my ex. It was like she simply had no emotional connection any more to the many years we had spent together.
And the people around her acted as if I was someone who she needed to be protected from - it was absolutely ludicrous. I was the victim of her domestic violence, I had never ever laid a hand on her and never would, yet I was treated the same way as a wife beater would be treated.
Was your ex prescribed an SSRI ? If so, you might want to read these ...
How SSRI Depressants Can Ruin Love and Family Life | ENCOGNITIVE.COM
https://www.opednews.com/articles/SS...90509-432.html
Citalopram is the divorce drug - Relationships - Surviving Antidepressants
ANTI DEPRESSANTS SSRIs AND 'I DONT LOVE ANYMORE' - DivorceBusting.com
https://ssristories.org/ssris-can-ca...-by-physician/
My ex said a similar thing - it is as if some alcoholics all read off the same script.
I have a problem with this kind of "supervision". What right does anyone have to refuse to let two adults who have spent years together have a minute to talk in private ???
I feel the same way whenever I hear from my ex. It is as if she is a completely different person - as if her and my relationship never existed.
She still blames a lot of stuff on me and has a completely weird picture in her head of what our relationship was really like - it is as if she has no memory of the good times or the loyalty and support I gave her, and as if her abuse of me never happened. She actually blames me for her not doing better when we were together - when I did absolutely everything I could possibly do to try to get her to accept help for her drinking.
It is as if she has replaced years that she spent with me with a false narrative.
My ex acts in some ways very similar to what you mention there.
When she started outpatient "treatment" around the time she ended our relationship, she started throwing away gifts I had given her which she had always truly cherished. When I saw her throwing away one of those gifts, I asked her "do you not remember when and why I gave you that ?" and she just looked at me blankly. She had zero emotional connection to that gift, when for a long time she was extremely sentimental about it.
It was as if that part of her brain had just been switched off. Prior to all this she was extremely sentimental and really valued the time and context in which gifts were given. She is simply not herself any more - she is someone else.
I can't work out in my ex's case how much of it is emotional blunting as a result of medication, and how much of it is her buying into the false narrative spun about me, but it hurts like hell.
I asked myself exactly the same questions.
The things that have helped me the most have been learning about emotional blunting as a result of medication, learning about smear campaigns, learning about coercive persuasion.
Most of all I got some really good advice from my doctor ... he said to me "when someone is in the depths of alcoholism, they are in psychosis ... and you cannot explain psychosis with logic".
That comment from my doctor has become like a mantra to me - before I accepted that, I tied myself in emotional knots for months and months trying to make sense of it all - I ended up in a very deep depression.
Here are some of the links that have really helped me ...
Peter Breggin MD: How Do Psychiatric Drugs Really Work? ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4Xb29geVwE
Peter Breggin MD: What is Medication Spellbinding? Simple Truths in Psychiatry Video #3 ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwIDfcc5Z3w
How Thought Reform works by the late Margaret Thaler Singer, Ph. D. ...
How Thought Reform works by Dr. Margaret Singer
Dr. Margaret T. Singer's 6 Conditions for Thought Reform ...
^ Singer, Margaret, Ph.D.: "Singer's Six Conditions For Thought Reform" - mind control collection
An Evening With Dr Drew Nov. 19 2014 at Pasadena Recovery Center ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1aJojFo_tQ
I hope some of that helps you.
Your story is remarkably similar to some of what I went through with my ex. When I read your story I could relate to so so much of it ...
Originally Posted by DupedBoy17
My ex girlfriend and I were together for 4 years. We were a team and best friends. It was the healthiest relationship I have ever been in or so I believed. I have never been as happy. I also became her manager a year into our relationship and we had each other's back in every way. It was magical and I would have bet everything on us going the distance. I liked her as well as loved her and enjoyed her company immensely. When you know, you know and I truly knew!! We treated one another with respect, kindness and love.
For the first two years there was zero abuse of me. In fact she was always very warm and kind to me the first two years.
After two years together, we both believed we had met the person we wanted to marry and have a family with.
Originally Posted by DupedBoy17
A year or so into our relationship she got blackout drunk and I didn't know that she had a drinking problem.
Originally Posted by DupedBoy17
She was violent, abusive and really uncharacteristically mean.
She got blackout drunk twice before we started living together, and each time had an explanation for how it happened. She was on some medication that should not be combined with alcohol, but thought she could still drink somehow.
Originally Posted by DupedBoy17
When she woke up the next day, I told her I was not going to be in this type of relationship again as my ex wife was abusive and had a drinking problem too. I meant it and even though I loved her I had worked on self love and self respect to have walked away if need be.
Originally Posted by DupedBoy17
She cried hard and had remorse and regret and I believed her when she said it would not happen again and she would monitor her drinking and limit herself to two glasses. She was great for 6 months then it happened again. By this time I was more in love with her than ever and had entered the realms of codependency. I am honest and observant enough to have recognized that but also realized that other than these black out episodes we never argued and always had light fun and laughter and love.
But when she drank it was like a Jeckyl and Hyde transformation. It scared me. When she was drunk she acted like a completely different person who was the opposite of her personality when she was sober.
One of the most difficult things as she started drinking more often was waking up in the morning and not knowing which version of her I would be dealing with by the end of the day. If she didn't drink, we had a happy day, zero arguments, zero disagreements. But if she drank, the day would often end in absolute mayhem. It was as if alcohol flipped a switch labelled "angry mode".
Originally Posted by DupedBoy17
After 4-5 more blackouts which got progressively worse over the next 2 years, she acknowledged she had a drinking problem and told me she would give up completely and go to AA.
I thought it was all behind us at that point, then she relapsed with alcohol, hard, and it was absolute mayhem again. She literally went from sober to completely out of control in a week. That relapse was terrifying to witness.
Originally Posted by DupedBoy17
During these blackouts she would say the most awful things and get increasingly violent. She would use my vulnerabilities against me which hurt a lot but I always ended up forgiving her when she would cry and apologize the next day.
I had told her about a really upsetting incident that I had been through when I was young, and she then used that as something against me to hurt me with one night when she was drunk.
The hardest thing about that is that it destroys trust - I had shared with her one of the most hurtful things I had ever been through, and in her drunken abusive state she turned that around and used it as a way to hurt me. I was absolutely appalled by that.
Originally Posted by DupedBoy17
Just this year we returned from Coachella and when we got back home she was starting ridiculous arguments with me and being aggressive and crying and acting completely unreasonable. I knew I was in for the usual cycle for the next 24-36 hrs of fighting, verbal abuse, violence, sadness, remorse, crying and forgiveness. Though I handled each episode much more lovingly as time went by throughout the relationship and reacted far less, her episodes got progressively worse and more extreme.
It eventually reached the point that her life was clearly at risk any time she drank, because it was as if absolutely anything could happen.
Originally Posted by DupedBoy17
On this occasion she cut herself really deeply after spraining her wrist by punching my head and threatened to call the cops on me for her injured wrist, which of course made no sense.
Originally Posted by DupedBoy17
I finally told her, the next day, after getting her medical attention etc that she had to go to rehab. I had been saving up for a ring to marry her but this was more important. I loved her and didn't want her to end up killing herself during a blackout. She reluctantly agreed to go so I had hope that she could get the help she needed to put an end to these mad episodes.
Her drinking became so out of control and her behavior when drunk so dangerous that it felt similar to living with a toddler who was obsessed with sticking a clothes hanger into electrical outlets - my life became being hypervigilant to her drinking.
She knew she was risking her life when she drank, but didn't seem to care - it was as if the self preservation instinct was completely over-ruled by her addiction to alcohol. She told me that she knew she was risking her life, but just kept drinking.
Originally Posted by DupedBoy17
On the drive there we both cried and she was so so terrified that it was very hard for me not to turn the car around and go back home as she had asked repeatedly. I went through with it as I felt hopeless without the right help and I loved her so much I didn't want her to go through this anymore and of course I didn't want this suffering anymore. The blackouts had become unbearable and more frequent, now happening every 2-3 months.
Originally Posted by DupedBoy17
She asked me if I would wait for her for the 30 days of rehab and asked if I promised I wouldn't leave her. I told her I am committed to her and will do whatever it takes to get her healthy. I told her I will stand by her no matter what.
She called me in the morning and evening and was very sweet and I would tell her how proud of her I am and be as supportive as possible without ever expressing how hard this all was for me.
She called me in the morning and evening and was very sweet and I would tell her how proud of her I am and be as supportive as possible without ever expressing how hard this all was for me.
Originally Posted by DupedBoy17
I kept it quiet that I had found dozens of small bottles of vodka around the house ... It broke my heart that I had probably been lied to many more times than I will ever know about.
I reacted with compassion and thought "ok, well the problem is bigger than I thought".
Originally Posted by DupedBoy17
Ultimately, I wanted her to get well and come home to the loving home filled with amazing memories we shared together. I wanted to marry her and of course wanted her to get well enough so that one day we could have children together, which we spoke of often.
When we started living together, before the drinking got out of control, I was ready to start a family with her. But when we started living together the alcohol turned our home into absolute chaos, and there was no way I was going to bring a baby into that situation.
I hoped that my ex's wish to have a family would help her get sober. I told her that if she got sober, we could start a family, and I meant that. But ultimately instead of making healthy decisions that would allow that to happen, she chose alcohol again and again and again.
Originally Posted by DupedBoy17
One day, after a week in rehab she turned on me and became cold and distant on the phone. She was very angry but didn't seem to know why. They diagnosed her with paranoid personality disorder and put her on a cocktail of meds. ... Of course all I could do was try to show her support and understanding and listen to her.
I was pretty confused about her anger towards me but went to visit her for a session with her and her assigned therapist. When I got into the office I totally felt ambushed. She started attacking me and the therapist told me that this was clearly a codependent, abusive relationship and I had been enabling her.
I was pretty confused about her anger towards me but went to visit her for a session with her and her assigned therapist. When I got into the office I totally felt ambushed. She started attacking me and the therapist told me that this was clearly a codependent, abusive relationship and I had been enabling her.
I contacted my ex's doctor, and informed her doctor about the reality of her drinking.
My ex then told me that her doctor told said that I was co-dependent and some other adjectives.
A few days later I was then accused of being abusive towards my ex. In reality I had endured months of verbal and emotional abuse, then more and more frequent threats of domestic violence from her towards me, and then she had physically attacked me in our home while drunk.
This is an area in which I think that many men who are doing everything they can to support their alcoholic wife or girlfriend (while being subjected to escalating levels of verbal, emotional and physical abuse) get completely shafted by people who are supposedly trained to recognise the behavior of alcoholics and the lies they tell ... supposedly trained people should know better than to believe an angry alcoholic who has a history of abusing their boyfriend / husband when the alcoholic wife or girlfriend claims they are the victim.
If the roles were reversed, and a woman was supporting her alcoholic boyfriend or husband, and she was being abused by him when he was drunk, in the vast majority of cases that woman would be offered a lot of support.
If an angry alcoholic man claimed that he was the victim of abuse from his wife or girlfriend, when it is clear as day to anyone with half a brain that his claim of abuse from her had no evidence to back it up, and there was lots of evidence that the alcoholic man was the one being abusive, then his claim of false victimhood would not be believed.
But too many men are being blamed in situations where the man is the victim of his wife or girlfriend's drunken abuse.
This is a problem ...
If a man claims "I am being abused by my wife / girlfriend", then the response to seems to be to ask what evidence there is of that alleged abuse from her to him. That is how it should be - any allegation of abuse, from either a man or a woman, is a very serious allegation and should be fully investigated.
If it is covert abuse, then any decent therapist can sit down with the man who is being abused and talk to him for an hour and figure out pretty quickly what is going on.
But in far too many cases (just one is too many), if a woman who is an alcoholic claims that she is the victim of abuse by her boyfriend or husband, the question "what evidence is there is of this alleged abuse by the man towards the woman ?" seems to be either not asked, or the man is not given the opportunity to defend himself against the false allegations of abuse. The man is simply hung out to dry and labelled an abuser.
One of the fundamental concepts in all civilised societies is the presumption of innocence - "innocent until proven guilty".
But in some cases of men who are victims of abuse and domestic violence from alcoholic women, if the alcoholic woman claims it is the man who is abusive, the man is then treated as if he is guilty of abuse, with no proper investigation into the allegations of abuse being made against him ... even if he is not a drinker and she is an alcoholic.
Instead, in some cases some people seem to appoint themselves as judge and jury, deny the man the right to defend himself against these false allegations, and then they execute the punishment against him by convincing his wife / girlfriend that the man is somehow the cause of her problems and that the only solution is for her to end all contact with him.
That is a complete disgrace.
A HYPOTHETICAL EXAMPLE
To see how grossly unfair that is, imagine this hypothetical scenario with the genders flipped ...
A man who is an angry abusive alcoholic goes into treatment. His wife has taken months of escalating verbal, emotional and physical abuse from him, but still loves him and remembers who he was before the alcohol and abuse started. She is enormously relieved that he is finally in treatment, where he can get the treatment he needs for the alcoholism.
She hopes and prays that once he is sober, he will return to the person he was before he disappeared down the rabbit hole of alcoholism. Some people will call that co-dependence, some will call it loyalty to the person who the alcoholic was before they started drinking. Some will call it having faith and not giving up on someone you love and care about. Everyone has the right to choose what is their limit, co-dependent or otherwise.
Many stories like that have a happy ending - the alcoholic husband gets help in treatment, gets into AA, changes his alcoholic thinking, make amends, and lives the rest of his life by those principles.
But in this hypothetical, when this alcoholic man goes into treatment, a few days later he suddenly becomes cold towards her, and blames her for his problems.
Then she is told that their relationship is codependent. She is then told that she is abusive (with no proper evidence of her being abusive, and no proper investigation of if she is abusive or not - when a proper investigation would reveal the abuse claims being made against his wife are false) ... and then she is told that her husband / boyfriend will not be having any further contact with her.
A group of people then rally around the alcoholic man, and he becomes utterly convinced that him that cutting off all contact with his wife / girlfriend is the only way "forward".
The reality is that the wife in this hypothetical has been falsely accused of abuse ... when she has been the opposite of abusive - she is the victim of his drunken abuse.
Either way you flip the genders, any person (male or female) being falsely accused of abuse is an absolutely horrendous thing.
But arguably far more grievous than a false allegation of abuse is the person who is falsely accused of abuse then being treated as if they are guilty of abuse even with no evidence of abuse by the person who is being falsely accused of abuse, and even when evidence exists that the person who is being falsely accused of abuse is in fact the victim of abuse from their alcoholic spouse.
Their marriage / relationship can be destroyed ... with the alcoholic spouse surrounded by people who appear to have the alcoholic utterly convinced that there is no other sensible course of action than what the alcoholic is doing.
Does that not enable the alcoholic to blame their sober spouse by allowing the alcoholic to accuse the sober spouse of abuse without properly investigating those allegations of abuse ?
THE ROLE OF TREATMENT CENTERS & THERAPISTS, AND THE ROLE OF THE LEGAL SYSTEM
Treatment centers and therapists are not courts. The role of treatment centers and therapists is to treat the alcoholism, not to make judgements of the sober spouse.
There is no place for anyone in society to make judgements of a sober spouse without displaying a proper understanding of the basic rules of legal evidence, or without a proper investigation of the evidence, or without the accused person being given the opportunity to defend themselves against any false allegations.
The Role of the Courts reads ...
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"The justice system is the mechanism that upholds the rule of law. Our courts provide a forum to resolve disputes and to test and enforce laws in a fair and rational manner. The courts are an impartial forum, and judges are free to apply the law without regard to the government's wishes or the weight of public opinion. Court decisions are based on what the law says and what the evidence proves; there is no place in the courts for suspicion, bias or favouritism. This is why justice is often symbolized as a blindfolded figure balancing a set of scales, oblivious to anything that could detract from the pursuit of an outcome that is just and fair."
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Historically, many states had a legal action called "alienation of affection" ...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alienation_of_affection
That page reads ...
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"To succeed on an alienation claim, the plaintiff has to show that (1) the marriage entailed love between the spouses in some degree; (2) the spousal love was alienated and destroyed; and (3) the defendant's malicious conduct contributed to or caused the loss of affection. It is not necessary to show that the defendant set out to destroy the marital relationship, but only that he or she intentionally engaged in acts which would foreseeably impact the marriage."
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The alienation of affection laws were removed in many states as no fault divorces became popular.
https://www.hg.org/article.asp?id=19936 reads ...
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"In a small minority of states, a spouse may sue a third party for willfully and maliciously interfering with the marital relationship. This interference results in winning away the love of a husband or wife from his/her spouse. This suit is usually brought against the adulterous spouse’s lover. Although, the statutes also allow for these claims to be filed against an in-law, relative, counselor, therapist, or clergy member who has talked the spouse into leaving the marriage. This type of claim is part of tort law, and is known as alienation of affection." ...
"There are some people, however, who argue that these torts help to preserve the sanctity of marriage, provide the injured spouse with a non-violent remedy to challenge the offending third party, and reinforce the state’s public policy to protect marital rights." ...
"Because most states have abolished alienation of affection lawsuits, some aggrieved spouses have tried various other civil actions" ... "The most common substitute is Intentional Infliction of Emotional Distress (IIED) claims. To prevail in an IIED claim, the plaintiff needs to prove the following:
• Intentional or reckless conduct;
• Extreme and outrageous conduct;
• That the emotional distress was caused by the wrongful conduct; and
• That severe emotional distress was evident."
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Originally Posted by DupedBoy17
I was shocked that my girl betrayed me by whatever she had made up to make the therapist think this. Codependent? Yes, I will accept that there was some codependency there but abusive??? I held her in the highest regard and didn't verbally abuse her, never mind physically. I am a trained fighter and would never ever hit a woman no matter what. Even when I refrained her in the midst of her violent tantrums I was very gentle with her. As for enabling her, I was the one that told her she needed help and drove her to rehab and of course paid for it!
Anyway, it was all downhill from there. I defended myself and my girl got more and more angry and accused me of the craziest falsehoods which made zero sense. Next week same type of thing and the last week, on her birthday she told me "I am not in love with you anymore".
I was crushed and in shock. We were always in love and everyone of our friends wanted our relationship. It was the truest love I ever experienced.
Anyway, it was all downhill from there. I defended myself and my girl got more and more angry and accused me of the craziest falsehoods which made zero sense. Next week same type of thing and the last week, on her birthday she told me "I am not in love with you anymore".
I was crushed and in shock. We were always in love and everyone of our friends wanted our relationship. It was the truest love I ever experienced.
Originally Posted by DupedBoy17
How could someone who was so loving and warm suddenly become so distant? What was the reason? I know I was not the best husband to my ex wife but to this girl, I gave her all of me. I was very loving, sweet, loyal and took care of her in so many ways. I put her before me which I had never done before. We were happy most of the time and made incredible, beautiful memories, the two of us, my daughter (When she would visit) and our dogs. We honestly laughed together daily and I thought we were very comfortable being ourselves with each other. The attraction and sex life was always really good between us too. It was insane that I was sitting in this office trying to sell our love and happiness to the person I had shared it with. She told me she had been unhappy for a long time and hiding it because she was scared of me. Again, this made no sense. Why would she be scared of me? I was so tender towards her. Why would she suddenly forget that we had a great relationship filled with great times? It's like she had forgotten everything good we had together and was just angry and mean, but this time not blacked out but sober.
And the people around her acted as if I was someone who she needed to be protected from - it was absolutely ludicrous. I was the victim of her domestic violence, I had never ever laid a hand on her and never would, yet I was treated the same way as a wife beater would be treated.
Was your ex prescribed an SSRI ? If so, you might want to read these ...
How SSRI Depressants Can Ruin Love and Family Life | ENCOGNITIVE.COM
https://www.opednews.com/articles/SS...90509-432.html
Citalopram is the divorce drug - Relationships - Surviving Antidepressants
ANTI DEPRESSANTS SSRIs AND 'I DONT LOVE ANYMORE' - DivorceBusting.com
https://ssristories.org/ssris-can-ca...-by-physician/
Originally Posted by DupedBoy17
She wanted time to grow and heal ... I asked if she meant she wanted me to wait for her and she said no. She said when i'm done we will see what happens but for now I have to focus on recovery and myself.
Originally Posted by DupedBoy17
She came to move her stuff out a few weeks ago and she broke down and had the shakes. I went to her and hugged her. The hug felt like our connection and love never left. Tears fell down both of our faces and we each wiped one another's tears. It was real all along and energy be faked. Her monitor who was with her refused to give us a minute in private to talk but my ex insisted and finally she begrudgingly gave us some space. She is under a very tight watch at her sober living and has people telling her what to do and what to feel all the time.
Originally Posted by DupedBoy17
We had a very sweet chat and it felt like there was hope after all. It felt like the love was alive and somehow, some way we would find our way back to one another.
I saw her a week later for lunch at my house, which of course was our house and she was cold and mechanical. I didn't push as I didn't want to make her feel pressured or uncomfortable but she was not the same person as the week prior. It was very weird.
I saw her a week later for lunch at my house, which of course was our house and she was cold and mechanical. I didn't push as I didn't want to make her feel pressured or uncomfortable but she was not the same person as the week prior. It was very weird.
She still blames a lot of stuff on me and has a completely weird picture in her head of what our relationship was really like - it is as if she has no memory of the good times or the loyalty and support I gave her, and as if her abuse of me never happened. She actually blames me for her not doing better when we were together - when I did absolutely everything I could possibly do to try to get her to accept help for her drinking.
It is as if she has replaced years that she spent with me with a false narrative.
Originally Posted by DupedBoy17
She couldn't give me a real reason of why she was not in love with me or what I had done to deserve being treated this way.
I will say that she is very committed to her sobriety but I don't recognize who she is. She was not this cold unfeeling person capable of such cruelty. We had a very sweet, loving, supportive bond. It felt real. Was I delusional?? So confused and hurt. How can she not even care about our dogs. Especially one of them who she brought into the relationship and she had had her since the dog was 3 months old and is now 15 years of age. She absolutely loved these dogs!
I will say that she is very committed to her sobriety but I don't recognize who she is. She was not this cold unfeeling person capable of such cruelty. We had a very sweet, loving, supportive bond. It felt real. Was I delusional?? So confused and hurt. How can she not even care about our dogs. Especially one of them who she brought into the relationship and she had had her since the dog was 3 months old and is now 15 years of age. She absolutely loved these dogs!
When she started outpatient "treatment" around the time she ended our relationship, she started throwing away gifts I had given her which she had always truly cherished. When I saw her throwing away one of those gifts, I asked her "do you not remember when and why I gave you that ?" and she just looked at me blankly. She had zero emotional connection to that gift, when for a long time she was extremely sentimental about it.
It was as if that part of her brain had just been switched off. Prior to all this she was extremely sentimental and really valued the time and context in which gifts were given. She is simply not herself any more - she is someone else.
I can't work out in my ex's case how much of it is emotional blunting as a result of medication, and how much of it is her buying into the false narrative spun about me, but it hurts like hell.
Originally Posted by DupedBoy17
She won't pee without her therapist's permission and I must move on or I will die from the pain of this but I just want to understand...how is it possible for a person to change that much that quickly? Is this the real her? Was she the real her when she was with me? Was I fooled and being used this whole time? Please let me know your thoughts and thank you so much for reading.
The things that have helped me the most have been learning about emotional blunting as a result of medication, learning about smear campaigns, learning about coercive persuasion.
Most of all I got some really good advice from my doctor ... he said to me "when someone is in the depths of alcoholism, they are in psychosis ... and you cannot explain psychosis with logic".
That comment from my doctor has become like a mantra to me - before I accepted that, I tied myself in emotional knots for months and months trying to make sense of it all - I ended up in a very deep depression.
Here are some of the links that have really helped me ...
Peter Breggin MD: How Do Psychiatric Drugs Really Work? ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4Xb29geVwE
Peter Breggin MD: What is Medication Spellbinding? Simple Truths in Psychiatry Video #3 ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwIDfcc5Z3w
How Thought Reform works by the late Margaret Thaler Singer, Ph. D. ...
How Thought Reform works by Dr. Margaret Singer
Dr. Margaret T. Singer's 6 Conditions for Thought Reform ...
^ Singer, Margaret, Ph.D.: "Singer's Six Conditions For Thought Reform" - mind control collection
An Evening With Dr Drew Nov. 19 2014 at Pasadena Recovery Center ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1aJojFo_tQ
I hope some of that helps you.
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Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 11
So sorry you went through that horrific experience. I am grateful for everything you shared and the links too.
I have to tell you man....I have figured out that she did all of these nasty and terrible things but ultimately if I had the level of self love and self respect I needed to I would have walked after the 1st time she blacked out or certainly the 2nd. Even though she betrayed me, I set myself up for failure and clinger on to romantic hallucinations that it would go away and minimized it all. We are both intelligent enough to fool ourselves and that can be a dangerous thing. We are sentimental enough to want true love to win but what if one day we find something without all of these crazy bumps and bruises....I bet we will look back and redefine what true love means to us.
I am hurt and betrayed by her but also by myself for not exercising my intelligence to protect me. As much as it is like an obsession with a drug to focus on her decisions and influences it leads only to dark emotions. I'm tired of dark emotions. I am fighting for my own freedom now and let go of her business.
Do the same if yo can brother and we will celebrate the clarity of hindsight to come. Non alcoholic beers on me!
Just to let you know what has been incredibly transformative for me in a very quick time is the commitment to no nonsense inner work. It is incredibly healing on a soul level so it isn't about years of therapy and going around in circles in our minds. Breath work is the key, for me at least. An hour of that per day leaves you higher than any drug with no comedown. It is a pathway to being present and truthful. I'm nowhere near where I need to be but I feel 1000 x more connected to my higher self and higher consciousness than just a few days ago. I wish more people had access to this healing inner work. Feel free to message me if you need any help or support on your journey and thank you for giving me the same on this thread.
Thanks again man!
I have to tell you man....I have figured out that she did all of these nasty and terrible things but ultimately if I had the level of self love and self respect I needed to I would have walked after the 1st time she blacked out or certainly the 2nd. Even though she betrayed me, I set myself up for failure and clinger on to romantic hallucinations that it would go away and minimized it all. We are both intelligent enough to fool ourselves and that can be a dangerous thing. We are sentimental enough to want true love to win but what if one day we find something without all of these crazy bumps and bruises....I bet we will look back and redefine what true love means to us.
I am hurt and betrayed by her but also by myself for not exercising my intelligence to protect me. As much as it is like an obsession with a drug to focus on her decisions and influences it leads only to dark emotions. I'm tired of dark emotions. I am fighting for my own freedom now and let go of her business.
Do the same if yo can brother and we will celebrate the clarity of hindsight to come. Non alcoholic beers on me!
Just to let you know what has been incredibly transformative for me in a very quick time is the commitment to no nonsense inner work. It is incredibly healing on a soul level so it isn't about years of therapy and going around in circles in our minds. Breath work is the key, for me at least. An hour of that per day leaves you higher than any drug with no comedown. It is a pathway to being present and truthful. I'm nowhere near where I need to be but I feel 1000 x more connected to my higher self and higher consciousness than just a few days ago. I wish more people had access to this healing inner work. Feel free to message me if you need any help or support on your journey and thank you for giving me the same on this thread.
Thanks again man!
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