Binding arbitration coming up?

Old 07-19-2017, 05:13 PM
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Binding arbitration coming up?

Today I got an email from the arbitrator's office inquiring about setting a date for binding arbitration to settle the question of custody between me and ex. I can't commit to a date just yet because my lawyer is away until next week and I want to consult with him first. But just the appearance of the email set off a whole wave of anxiety/fear/stress overload reactions. It's amazing how embodied this is - I feel physically ill from seeing our two names together in the same sentence.

Currently my biggest worry about arbitration is that I will cave in. I know I am susceptible to ex in his earnest and reasonable guise. I'm still working on undoing 25 years of conditioning to believe (or act as if I believed) that he is always right. I need to keep reminding myself that he is not a normal person, at best he is very sick and one of the symptoms of his disease is that he lies and distorts things to suit his interests, and his overriding interest is to get his own way in everything without having to change his drinking behavior.

So instead of fretting about this, I am making talking points that I can return to repeatedly and fall back on. I find it's helpful to write out my thought processes, and it's good to know that people out there can read them, and if I'm way off base, can let me know. Here we go, reasons for why sole custody to me and reasonable access to him is the way it should be, based on what I know are going to be his minimizing and denying counter-arguments:

**********************

1. Once the line has been crossed into drunk driving, there’s no going back. This is what I worried about the most as a potential danger. Now it’s no longer potential, it’s real, which means I have to take extra measures for Kid’s safety
2. [social worker friend say] : Drunk driving incidents are like cockroaches, for every one you see there are nine or ten you don’t. it is not plausible to believe that this was the only time Dad drove drunk with Kid in the car and it will never happen again.
3. Because Dad has lied about abstaining from drinking in the past, and because he’s told [my lawyer] in a letter that he doesn’t intend to abstain, I can no longer believe his own accounts of his drinking. If he wants to convince me that Kid is safe with him, he will have to find a method to do that other than just repeatedly asserting it, getting louder each time
4. Since [date], Dad has done nothing to address my concerns about Kid’s safety. Telling me he wants more time with Kid is not the same as showing me that Kid would be safe with him. To the best of my knowledge, there is no evidence that the child protection investigation is closed or that he is doing anything about his drinking problem.
5. It’s not my responsibility to catch him drinking, it’s his responsibility to prove to me that he’s sober, if he wants more time with Kid.
6. The drunk-driving incident on [date] was not a stand-alone mistake. It was the culmination of a series of incidents which I have logged since [early 2016] in which Dad’s drinking created disturbing, frightening and/or dangerous situations for Kid. He knew the stakes were high but he still kept drinking.
7. “Recovery looks like recovery” [poster on SR]. Dad’s behavior since [date]– human rights complaints about Kid's child care staff, long emails to me and [my lawyer], allegations about vandalism, claiming he’s being “emotionally honest” by telling Kid I’m an a***** – do not look like the actions of someone who is taking responsibility for the damage caused by his drinking.
8. Dad doesn’t have to moderate his drinking if he doesn’t want to. But if he chooses to keep drinking, there are implications for the role he will play in Kid’s life.
9. I’ve had de facto sole custody for nearly a year and have gone out of my way to ensure that Kid sees her father. I have established a solid track record and there is no reason to think I would abuse my legal status as the parent with sole custody.
10. Kid isn’t here and neither of us can speak to what she feels or what she thinks. We can agree that what she needs is safety, stability, and the opportunity to develop a strong relationship with both parents. Sole custody to me with generous access to her father, while waiting to see whether Dad will sustain a commitment to sobriety, is the best way to achieve this.
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Old 07-19-2017, 05:51 PM
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Sounds to me like an excellent set of talking points. I still can't believe they do something as sensitive/critical as child custody/visitation using arbitration! If any situation calls for the court's "big guns" this is it.

I'd just go easy on stuff like "recovery looks like recovery"--that's great for us, but not necessarily helpful for the arbitrator. Try to stick to the facts, which are damning enough, and try to avoid commentary on what a recovery programs should look like, or what progress in recovery should look like. The bottom line is he is engaging in repetitive behavior that has NOT resulted in serious physical harm thanks only to dumb luck.

You got this.
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Old 07-20-2017, 06:31 AM
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I think you should print out your points and have them there with you to refer back to each time you feel weak during the process. Remember, don't be pressured just to get it done. Breathe, stay calm, and take a moment when you need to.

I also agree with what Lexie just said. It's nothing but dumb luck that he did not cart your child off while wasted. Remember that, and stress that.

Big hugs to you!
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Old 07-20-2017, 08:06 AM
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Thanks LexieCat and hopeful4. I have a meeting set up with my lawyer next week and will have a list of questions about the procedure, what to expect, etc.

It's true that it's just dumb luck nobody's been seriously hurt yet. When I look back on the last year and a half and the pattern of crises, it's become clear that Kid's life has been calmest when she was living with me all the time. Whenever we tried to increase her time spent with her father, in the hope of getting back to 50/50 (hope which I have now abandoned), it was always cut short by bailout phone calls, police at his residence, psychiatric treatment, fights with ex-wife-#2, etc.

Things have been calm since the drunk-driving incident in May (which I'm sure will come up as a reason for why he should have joint custody - because "look, it's all been fine for three months, the longest period without a crisis since January 2016!") - but I would say that's because he's only seen Kid for two hours at a time a couple of times a week since May, so he's had limited opportunities to screw up.
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Old 07-20-2017, 08:16 AM
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Can I plagiarize these talking points when I get to that point in my (most-likely divorce?). Other than the fact she hasn't driven drunk with DS (that I know of), she has definitely driven drunk.

Good for you for being strong!

COD
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Old 07-20-2017, 08:43 AM
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Look at arbitration this way. Its a speedier end to the never ending delays that normal channels will make you go through.

In my personal experience, the arbitrators now the legal guidelines that can and can't be used. They will submit the outcome to the courts and it generally will get approved by the judge as submitted.

Nothing you are discussing in arbitration is really any different than it would have been in attorney driven normal proceedings. Just a lot less opportunity to lay smoke screens, delays and legal stalls to detract from the points you needed addressed all along.

It is up to you however to be prepared.

From the sounds and looks of it, you are.

It is faster for you to do this and a tactic that he can take advantage of to get this over with before all of this gets discussed openly in court proceedings.

Good luck. You're doing great. ( I must say he is making things way easier for you by his ongoing actions). :-)
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Old 07-20-2017, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by CentralOhioDad View Post
Can I plagiarize these talking points when I get to that point in my (most-likely divorce?). Other than the fact she hasn't driven drunk with DS (that I know of), she has definitely driven drunk.

Good for you for being strong!

COD
Absolutely. Feel free to plagiarize as needed. Kid loves her father but he has shown he cannot consistently make decisions to keep her safe, so the custody needs to rest with me, with plenty of opportunities for her to spend (controlled) time with him.

In my experience, once the penny drops and you have that certainty that you cannot allow your child to continue living like this, you can make decisions and act on them pretty fast. In my case, "the penny" was drunk driving.
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Old 07-20-2017, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Hangnbyathread View Post
Look at arbitration this way. Its a speedier end to the never ending delays that normal channels will make you go through.

In my personal experience, the arbitrators now the legal guidelines that can and can't be used. They will submit the outcome to the courts and it generally will get approved by the judge as submitted.

Nothing you are discussing in arbitration is really any different than it would have been in attorney driven normal proceedings. Just a lot less opportunity to lay smoke screens, delays and legal stalls to detract from the points you needed addressed all along.

It is up to you however to be prepared.

From the sounds and looks of it, you are.

It is faster for you to do this and a tactic that he can take advantage of to get this over with before all of this gets discussed openly in court proceedings.

Good luck. You're doing great. ( I must say he is making things way easier for you by his ongoing actions). :-)
Yes, exactly. I see arbitration as much preferable to court for all those reasons. Arbitration also allows things to remain private, so I will not need to enter police reports, crazy emails, psychiatrists' notes, screenshots etc into the public record in order to prove my case in court. This should be in ex's interest.
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Old 07-24-2017, 01:21 PM
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Just taking a moment to complain here:

I hate fielding texts from ex asking "can you bring Kid over tonight? how about tonight? Kid really wants to see me today ..." etc etc.

If I say "okay, sure, fine", I'm doomed to spend yet another two hours sitting in the Starbucks near his home while ex and Kid play with puppy, after already doing that twice in the past week.

If I say "no", I'm on record as denying access and this will absolutely for sure be brought up in mediation/arbitration, if it ever happens. Plus, he will throw a fit.

If I say "okay, tonight but then not again until Thursday", I am letting myself in for ex trying to negotiate and make deals ("I should get to see her extra this week because she's going to camp next week so I want today, Tuesday and Thursday" or "I don't want to wait until Thursday so one hour on Wednesday and one on Thursday" and on and on), when I am trying to minimize any contact with him. "Talk to my lawyer" won't work for this situation.

I really wish he would figure out that if he quit drinking and ranting at people and acting crazy, many people's lives, including his, would be much simpler. I know that in the grand scheme of things my being inconvenienced isn't the biggest deal ever and the main thing is what is in Kid's best interests. But I have spent decades dealing with ex, who feels most at home in the midst of chaos and bad feelings, and so likes to create them even when they don't need to exist. So these negotiations over seeing Kid, in which no matter what I do I lose, are just bringing me back to the same place where I've spent my entire adult life.
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Old 07-24-2017, 07:04 PM
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Hi Sasha, sounds like a nuisance. Are the requests coming from Kid to you or is it just him trying to wear you down?

No is a complete sentence. With my son when he wants to go fishing frequently, I have to say No these are the days we are fishing. I have plans on the other days.
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Old 07-25-2017, 03:52 AM
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Hi Sasha, the sooner you get this sorted out the better. The picture of you sitting in Starbucks for 2 hours because he can't be trusted to pick her up and deliver is a bleak one. I think, given the circumstances, twice a week is very reasonable, and is not denying custody. You have a life and routine.

I wanted to suggest to you that you practice your talking points with a friend. Having them written on paper is different from saying them out loud. Practicing helps you get your phrasing right and may stop you freezing up if you're nervous. I used this idea with great effect when I was going for an important job interview.
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Old 07-25-2017, 06:28 AM
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Hi FeelingGreat, I agree. Once I have a piece of paper saying "sole custody with reasonable and generous access", I'm in a position to say that I'll bring Kid over two nights a week. Right now, the existing piece of paper says "equal and shared parenting", so if I say no to a request to see Kid, I am sure it's going to come back at me as "Mom unilaterally and arbitrarily denies me access to Kid". I am progressing towards that new piece of paper, but much slower than I would like. Next stop is arbitration.

The situation is going to have to change in September because that's when my job (and Kid's school) ramps up and I will not have the energy to spend three nights a week driving to and from his place.

The idea about practicing out loud is a good one. I've used that (and used a similar script of talking points) to ensure that I stay on-message during negotiations or complex meetings at work.
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Old 07-25-2017, 06:28 AM
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This is why you need that order in place. No negotiation necessary--the order is the order and if you stick to it without deviation nobody has any grounds for complaint.

This just sounds like a never-ending painful exercise. I like the idea of thinking of some standard, non-negotiable responses like, "Sorry, that doesn't work for me." You aren't obligated to explain WHY it doesn't work for you. As long as you aren't depriving him of all access to his child the courts will understand that one parent can't call all the shots for their personal convenience.
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Old 07-25-2017, 06:28 AM
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Originally Posted by hearthealth View Post
Hi Sasha, sounds like a nuisance. Are the requests coming from Kid to you or is it just him trying to wear you down?

No is a complete sentence. With my son when he wants to go fishing frequently, I have to say No these are the days we are fishing. I have plans on the other days.
This is from ex to me. But Kid is happy to spend more time with her father.
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Old 07-25-2017, 12:23 PM
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sole custody with reasonable and generous access

i'm ok with reasonable, but generous considering the other parent involved here sounds way to easy peasy, way too lenient. it says your boundaries and schedules are fluid and he has access on demand. as he does NOW with afternoon calls about seeing the kid tonite.

considering how this person has been acting lately, i think 2 hours every other thursday and some weekend time is much more appropriate!? remember the kids have to endure that time with an active alcoholic demonstrating signs of mental health issues.

IMO, i don't believe for one minute he is driven by wanting to see the child as much as he is driven by wanting to continually invade and to a degree control your space, your actions, your time. the child is a means to an end. he isn't bucking for Father of the Year.
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Old 07-25-2017, 01:15 PM
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Thanks. I hadn't thought of it as trying to control my actions (I was thinking of it more as him trying to get hold of Kid more, and/or set things up so I would look bad in arbitration if I said no), but the control-your-ex thing is a whole new perspective. Since we've been apart for years, the only way he can get at me now is through Kid (especially since I quit responding to drunken emails). He can now "make" me drive over to his place and hang around awkwardly. And that is pretty close to the way I believe he would think of it.

I may indeed have been too lenient with boundaries. I am entitled to not have my evenings taken up with Kid visiting her father, especially as the reason why I have to take Kid to see her father is not of my doing. And in general the less time Kid spends around an alcoholic who bad-mouths her mother and his meth girlfriend, the better. If he wants to see Kid more, it should be on him to come up with ways to make that possible.
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Old 07-25-2017, 01:20 PM
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I know not everyone has this experience, and my mediation wasn't binding, but when I divorced my first husband (who was not an A), our mediator (who was also an arbitrator) was literally the FIRST neutral, outside person who took one look at what was going on and immediately grasped how totally ridiculous my husband was being. It was a profound relief in many ways.

My hope is that you have a similarly wise arbitrator, and that you are able to work out a solution that protects the kids AND your peace of mind.
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Old 07-25-2017, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Sasha1972 View Post
Thanks. I hadn't thought of it as trying to control my actions (I was thinking of it more as him trying to get hold of Kid more, and/or set things up so I would look bad in arbitration if I said no), but the control-your-ex thing is a whole new perspective. Since we've been apart for years, the only way he can get at me now is through Kid (especially since I quit responding to drunken emails). He can now "make" me drive over to his place and hang around awkwardly. And that is pretty close to the way I believe he would think of it.

I may indeed have been too lenient with boundaries. I am entitled to not have my evenings taken up with Kid visiting her father, especially as the reason why I have to take Kid to see her father is not of my doing. And in general the less time Kid spends around an alcoholic who bad-mouths her mother and his meth girlfriend, the better. If he wants to see Kid more, it should be on him to come up with ways to make that possible.
Lundy Bancroft (author of Why Does He DO That?) has written a book called, The Batterer as Parent. It's really for professionals in the field (and priced accordingly--about 50 bucks or so), but much of that book is about how abusive men use the children as pawns or weapons in their campaign against the mothers of those children. The kids are manipulated and the abusive fathers do exactly the kind of crap yours is doing.

I don't know enough about your ex to know whether he's a batterer (which doesn't necessarily involve physical violence), but he sure sounds like a classic batterer-type when it comes to his interactions with you in this context.
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Old 07-25-2017, 02:58 PM
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so besides him pitching a fit like a two year old, has he taken any actual concrete legal steps or actions? you keep saying he'll use a NO from you as PROOF of you withholding child.....are you sure you aren't just being reactionary, and there really isn't a monster in the cupboard????
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Old 07-25-2017, 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by LexieCat View Post
Lundy Bancroft (author of Why Does He DO That?) has written a book called, The Batterer as Parent. It's really for professionals in the field (and priced accordingly--about 50 bucks or so), but much of that book is about how abusive men use the children as pawns or weapons in their campaign against the mothers of those children. The kids are manipulated and the abusive fathers do exactly the kind of crap yours is doing.

I don't know enough about your ex to know whether he's a batterer (which doesn't necessarily involve physical violence), but he sure sounds like a classic batterer-type when it comes to his interactions with you in this context.
He's never been physically violent towards me (or Kid, as far as I know), although his second ex-wife says he hit and pushed her on a few occasions. His mother was physically abusive to him and his sisters.

I'll take a look for that book. It's a bit uncanny how I keep running into people with professional expertise in domestic violence who say that my situation has the hallmarks of a DV situation, even though there has been no physical force. LexieCat is at least the fourth person to make that connection, without any prompting or hints from me.
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