No news is...no news.
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Join Date: Jan 2015
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No news is...no news.
Hello all.
I have been lurking lately but not participating much. Embarrassed and frustrated at myself for lack of progress. I have had a few people ask how I am doing (Thank you so much) I am doing ok. I feel good, no real crisis in life and kids and I (as well as AH) have had a really nice summer so far.
He remains sober (since 2/1/17). Also remains very active in parenting and daily life. It's nice to have him "here" for once. AH had his first sober birthday in 15+ years and commented on how nice it was. I am very proud of him. DS(10) even mentioned to me that he is happy Dad doesn't drink beer anymore. (me too kid) I am working on getting over my anger at his quick recovery, that was consuming me for a while.
But I still prepare for it to all crash down. I still have the occasional irrational/conrolling/entitlement issue flare up- and have so far been able to state my piece, stick up for myself and move on from it. I do not like that this still happens and can see him trying very hard to watch his p's and q's...I just do not know the depth as to WHY. It is to placate me? is he really working on himself? I keep to my side of these things.
Not sure the point of my post here. I just wanted to check in and say hello and that I appreciate this place. I visit everyday even when not active. Any thoughts are welcome of course.
I have been lurking lately but not participating much. Embarrassed and frustrated at myself for lack of progress. I have had a few people ask how I am doing (Thank you so much) I am doing ok. I feel good, no real crisis in life and kids and I (as well as AH) have had a really nice summer so far.
He remains sober (since 2/1/17). Also remains very active in parenting and daily life. It's nice to have him "here" for once. AH had his first sober birthday in 15+ years and commented on how nice it was. I am very proud of him. DS(10) even mentioned to me that he is happy Dad doesn't drink beer anymore. (me too kid) I am working on getting over my anger at his quick recovery, that was consuming me for a while.
But I still prepare for it to all crash down. I still have the occasional irrational/conrolling/entitlement issue flare up- and have so far been able to state my piece, stick up for myself and move on from it. I do not like that this still happens and can see him trying very hard to watch his p's and q's...I just do not know the depth as to WHY. It is to placate me? is he really working on himself? I keep to my side of these things.
Not sure the point of my post here. I just wanted to check in and say hello and that I appreciate this place. I visit everyday even when not active. Any thoughts are welcome of course.
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Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 2,792
TW,
Great news!! So happy that he is sober and your life has "calmed" down. Glad you are sticking around and reading, as you need support also. Keep us in the loop on your progress, because that is who we are here to support.
Hugs!!
Great news!! So happy that he is sober and your life has "calmed" down. Glad you are sticking around and reading, as you need support also. Keep us in the loop on your progress, because that is who we are here to support.
Hugs!!
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
Just a month ago, you posted this: It sounds to me as if the ONLY thing he is doing is "not drinking." Or over the past month has he become respectful toward you and your feelings? I see you worrying about whether he "understands"--while you are falling all over yourself trying to be "understanding" of him.
Look, I'll be the first one to say that things don't change overnight when someone stops drinking. But that's when someone is truly making the herculean effort of changing their entire life. What's he done besides not drink (and I'm always skeptical of the reliability of that)?
If all you are going to demand of the relationship is that he not drink, that's a pretty low bar. What I was reading a month ago was that he continued to be selfish, manipulative, controlling, and nasty toward you.
Friday: AH surprised me with a date day while kids were in school. He took the day off work (!!!) and went to a museum neither of us had been to, had lunch, a great quality time day. Happy times.
Saturday: I was able to go grocery shopping solo, spent the rest of the day at home with kiddos, AH was there, a little agitated throughout the day but wasn’t really an issue and I kept focused on kids/self. I was invited last minute out to a show with free tickets with my sisters and pitched the idea to AH. That is when things took a turn. He was offended that I made plans last minute, after our great date yesterday- how could I? and just dropped that bomb on him, also the tickets were for “Thunder from Down under” (eye roll) lol. All for fun and I had been before. Totally last minute fun plans. He went into a fit saying he was going to go to the strip club tonight then, since I get to get away with it. Then I made the mistake of justifying myself…AH would not just say: I don’t like the idea of you going please don’t – he had to try and hurt me the same and prove a point. ..and he continued on also mentioning that he didn’t have friends to go out with to strip club, so it will never be “fair”… I just said to him: I don’t REALLY care about this show, it was really about sister time. We can still go out for dinner and I will just end my night there. He wanted to continue to prove his point and I had to repeat myself that I didn’t care about going! I changed plans! Let it go! …But I still feel like I sacrificed myself.
Sunday:
AH joined the kids and I on our usual daily walk (for the first time ever) and as we were walking the kids were excited and wound up at first. We are working on them interrupting and waiting turns to talk (usual family chaos I imagine haha) Well this turns into not fun real quick as AH starts talking to me about how we can never have quality time when we are out as a family because of the constant interruptions, and my argument was that we are out as a FAMILY and quality time between him and I is separate… He proceeds to tell me the picture in his head would be the kids walking up ahead of us behaving and us hand in hand talking with no interruptions. So this (usually) relaxing and nice evening walk has spun us into a huge discussion on him feeling left out and competing with the kids’ attention and I saying that I can’t accept him always making me feel pulled between him and our children! So I am crying at this point because I have been told that I don’t care and HE is making all these changes and is upset that I wont read “the 5 Love Languages” with him… I tell him that I have been working on myself for 3+ years. And he continues on that I don’t show him love and that he is so hurt that I don’t shout my love on social media and our date on Friday HE had to post about the date on Facebook and I didn’t so I must not care etc etc. I told him that it is not my “style” and never has been to be public on my facebook. I thanked him and showed my appreciation to him in person, not to the internet. He says he is making all these changes so why can’t I and just suck it up and go out of my comfort zone to show my love “his way” ….So I have a puffy face from crying all day into Monday even because I am made to feel so selfish and cold hearted.
Monday: all is “normal” again. Although he mentioned in bed right before sleeping that he is going to start going to gym again (it has been about a month) and I say great, yeah do that- then he says he is going to join MY gym now instead and I didn’t really reply except “mmhmm ok” but inside I am cringing and panicking because THAT IS MY PLACE. That is my “spa”, my turf lol. I don’t like the feeling of him slowly but surely creeping into all facets of my life. Because that has been happening. It’s like he is assimilating what he thinks I want from him. I just want him to keep his own identity not take over mine.
Saturday: I was able to go grocery shopping solo, spent the rest of the day at home with kiddos, AH was there, a little agitated throughout the day but wasn’t really an issue and I kept focused on kids/self. I was invited last minute out to a show with free tickets with my sisters and pitched the idea to AH. That is when things took a turn. He was offended that I made plans last minute, after our great date yesterday- how could I? and just dropped that bomb on him, also the tickets were for “Thunder from Down under” (eye roll) lol. All for fun and I had been before. Totally last minute fun plans. He went into a fit saying he was going to go to the strip club tonight then, since I get to get away with it. Then I made the mistake of justifying myself…AH would not just say: I don’t like the idea of you going please don’t – he had to try and hurt me the same and prove a point. ..and he continued on also mentioning that he didn’t have friends to go out with to strip club, so it will never be “fair”… I just said to him: I don’t REALLY care about this show, it was really about sister time. We can still go out for dinner and I will just end my night there. He wanted to continue to prove his point and I had to repeat myself that I didn’t care about going! I changed plans! Let it go! …But I still feel like I sacrificed myself.
Sunday:
AH joined the kids and I on our usual daily walk (for the first time ever) and as we were walking the kids were excited and wound up at first. We are working on them interrupting and waiting turns to talk (usual family chaos I imagine haha) Well this turns into not fun real quick as AH starts talking to me about how we can never have quality time when we are out as a family because of the constant interruptions, and my argument was that we are out as a FAMILY and quality time between him and I is separate… He proceeds to tell me the picture in his head would be the kids walking up ahead of us behaving and us hand in hand talking with no interruptions. So this (usually) relaxing and nice evening walk has spun us into a huge discussion on him feeling left out and competing with the kids’ attention and I saying that I can’t accept him always making me feel pulled between him and our children! So I am crying at this point because I have been told that I don’t care and HE is making all these changes and is upset that I wont read “the 5 Love Languages” with him… I tell him that I have been working on myself for 3+ years. And he continues on that I don’t show him love and that he is so hurt that I don’t shout my love on social media and our date on Friday HE had to post about the date on Facebook and I didn’t so I must not care etc etc. I told him that it is not my “style” and never has been to be public on my facebook. I thanked him and showed my appreciation to him in person, not to the internet. He says he is making all these changes so why can’t I and just suck it up and go out of my comfort zone to show my love “his way” ….So I have a puffy face from crying all day into Monday even because I am made to feel so selfish and cold hearted.
Monday: all is “normal” again. Although he mentioned in bed right before sleeping that he is going to start going to gym again (it has been about a month) and I say great, yeah do that- then he says he is going to join MY gym now instead and I didn’t really reply except “mmhmm ok” but inside I am cringing and panicking because THAT IS MY PLACE. That is my “spa”, my turf lol. I don’t like the feeling of him slowly but surely creeping into all facets of my life. Because that has been happening. It’s like he is assimilating what he thinks I want from him. I just want him to keep his own identity not take over mine.
Look, I'll be the first one to say that things don't change overnight when someone stops drinking. But that's when someone is truly making the herculean effort of changing their entire life. What's he done besides not drink (and I'm always skeptical of the reliability of that)?
If all you are going to demand of the relationship is that he not drink, that's a pretty low bar. What I was reading a month ago was that he continued to be selfish, manipulative, controlling, and nasty toward you.
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Originally Posted by LexieCat 
Just a month ago, you posted this: It sounds to me as if the ONLY thing he is doing is "not drinking." Or over the past month has he become respectful toward you and your feelings? I see you worrying about whether he "understands"--while you are falling all over yourself trying to be "understanding" of him.
Look, I'll be the first one to say that things don't change overnight when someone stops drinking. But that's when someone is truly making the herculean effort of changing their entire life. What's he done besides not drink (and I'm always skeptical of the reliability of that)?
If all you are going to demand of the relationship is that he not drink, that's a pretty low bar. What I was reading a month ago was that he continued to be selfish, manipulative, controlling, and nasty toward you.
Look, I'll be the first one to say that things don't change overnight when someone stops drinking. But that's when someone is truly making the herculean effort of changing their entire life. What's he done besides not drink (and I'm always skeptical of the reliability of that)?
If all you are going to demand of the relationship is that he not drink, that's a pretty low bar. What I was reading a month ago was that he continued to be selfish, manipulative, controlling, and nasty toward you.
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
But see, this is where I think you might be making a mistake. You are both looking at this as "waiting for him to fail"--waiting for him to drink again. OR to do something "awful enough" to justify your leaving.
You don't have to call him on anything, you don't have to say anything to him. You can simply quietly observe. And if what you're observing isn't what you want in a marriage, you act accordingly, without worrying whether he's "failed" some arbitrary test. You aren't obligated to justify your right to pursue your own happiness to him or to anyone else. You can simply decide, at any time, that you are DONE.
You don't have to call him on anything, you don't have to say anything to him. You can simply quietly observe. And if what you're observing isn't what you want in a marriage, you act accordingly, without worrying whether he's "failed" some arbitrary test. You aren't obligated to justify your right to pursue your own happiness to him or to anyone else. You can simply decide, at any time, that you are DONE.
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Originally Posted by LexieCat
But see, this is where I think you might be making a mistake. You are both looking at this as "waiting for him to fail"--waiting for him to drink again. OR to do something "awful enough" to justify your leaving.
You don't have to call him on anything, you don't have to say anything to him. You can simply quietly observe. And if what you're observing isn't what you want in a marriage, you act accordingly, without worrying whether he's "failed" some arbitrary test. You aren't obligated to justify your right to pursue your own happiness to him or to anyone else. You can simply decide, at any time, that you are DONE.
You don't have to call him on anything, you don't have to say anything to him. You can simply quietly observe. And if what you're observing isn't what you want in a marriage, you act accordingly, without worrying whether he's "failed" some arbitrary test. You aren't obligated to justify your right to pursue your own happiness to him or to anyone else. You can simply decide, at any time, that you are DONE.
Things aren't any better, just different. Harder.
I still find me defending myself and proving my love to him, when he is the one who has acted unloving and immature. I am being told I don't show my love in any meaningful way, and am not focused on us as a couple, and that I have not changed at all but he has stopped drinking and helps with chores and picks up kids after work etc.
I have been raising our children, working on myself, becoming a happy and strong individual ...but it is not centered around him and that's when trouble starts. He always expects more and more and more from me when he is/was the one who needed to change...right?
Has some major blow ups lately as I have asserted myself more and have spoken up for what is fair, what I want, making him accountable for broken promises etc.
Found out my parents have been communicating regularly with him, and they keep that from me. He is painting himself in great light to them and leaving me feeling embarrassed as he has discussions about me to them without my knowledge. I have lost my parents as a source of support in my mind.
Still here, still slowly slowly slowly working towards the right thing to do. but damn it's hard. Exhausting. Any time I feel I have made progress and feel strong, something happens to put out my fire- and it is not a coincidence.
End vent.
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
And you're holding out for, what, again?
Not only is he making your home life miserable, he's undermining your home base of support. This is what abusers DO. They cut off other avenues of support to make you as dependent as possible. And even though you're "standing up" to him, who wants to have to go through that every day? (OK, every few days, every week, month, whatever.)
As we tell struggling alcoholics--you don't have to ride the falling elevator all the way to the bottom. You can get off before it crashes.
Not only is he making your home life miserable, he's undermining your home base of support. This is what abusers DO. They cut off other avenues of support to make you as dependent as possible. And even though you're "standing up" to him, who wants to have to go through that every day? (OK, every few days, every week, month, whatever.)
As we tell struggling alcoholics--you don't have to ride the falling elevator all the way to the bottom. You can get off before it crashes.
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Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 2,792
Tw,
Why are your parents having conversations with him? Have you asked your parents what it is all about? I feel betrayed and they aren't even my parents.
This is all about boundaries. I cut my mother out of my life for 8 months because she refused to stop talking about axh, every time we talked. (2.5 years post divorce ) She got my message loud and clear, after 8 months of no contact. Take your power back, tell them that you feel betrayed and this needs to stop! This is just plain wrong, in my mind. Hugs
Why are your parents having conversations with him? Have you asked your parents what it is all about? I feel betrayed and they aren't even my parents.
This is all about boundaries. I cut my mother out of my life for 8 months because she refused to stop talking about axh, every time we talked. (2.5 years post divorce ) She got my message loud and clear, after 8 months of no contact. Take your power back, tell them that you feel betrayed and this needs to stop! This is just plain wrong, in my mind. Hugs
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Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 1,144
Hi Thousandwords,
I look at how does husband adjust and change when I bring up issues with him. Is there adjustments or just complaining? It's so much harder when they are not in a recovery program. Just being sober doesn't fix all the issues.
I look at how does husband adjust and change when I bring up issues with him. Is there adjustments or just complaining? It's so much harder when they are not in a recovery program. Just being sober doesn't fix all the issues.
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 13,560
I did that, over and over. Kept waiting for it to get bad enough just to prove I had given him every opportunity.
Thing is, my XAH is not someone I would ever want to be with, sober or not. It took me a LONG time to realize that. I wasted a really long time....waiting for the shoe to drop.
Hugs to you.
Thing is, my XAH is not someone I would ever want to be with, sober or not. It took me a LONG time to realize that. I wasted a really long time....waiting for the shoe to drop.
Hugs to you.
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 13,560
THIS JUST GAVE ME THE BEST LAUGH!!!!
So, so true girl!!! If only I could turn back time!!!!!
So, so true girl!!! If only I could turn back time!!!!!
Originally Posted by dandylion
hopeful4.....in your husband's case...when the "shoe dropped"....it happened to be a darned ole Shoe Store.....lol...
hopeful4...Please forgive me....I have a really twisted sense of humor....
hopeful4...Please forgive me....I have a really twisted sense of humor....
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Join Date: Jan 2015
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Originally Posted by Maudcat
It does sound hard.
He still sounds manipulative and self-centered, TW, though it also sounds like you are pushing back against this in a way that is good for you.
This is who he is, I guess.
He still sounds manipulative and self-centered, TW, though it also sounds like you are pushing back against this in a way that is good for you.
This is who he is, I guess.
And to address the backstory a tad more:
Mom has always been kind of "in our business" and has never really taken my side 100% and plays matchmaker so to speak. I don't confide in her much anymore because what I say has been downplayed and dismissed. AH has used opportunities such as picking kids up after work to shmooz my parents and get their help with planning our date nights etc.
I felt like we were trying to move along and work on our marriage and have been discussing purchasing a vehicle more suitable for myself and our 3 kids, I have not had a proper car in almost 10 years and currently am driving a dated and beat up car borrowed from said parents. AH drives a 3 row SUV...by himself...dont get me started on that...so we talked about me looking into the loan process etc, I mentioned some models I had in mind, a budget - I was given the green light to start inquiring and I got my hopes up. Last week I let him know that I got as far as I could by phone/email and that Friday I had made an appointment to actually crunch some numbers...to see if we could afford what we had in mind...I was told flat out to my face: NOPE. He's not going to any appointment. I was shut down. The next day, Monday, at work I was thinking and I texted him- "Hey, just so you know, I am keeping that appointment Friday. this is important to me". Again I was told no. I replied to him that if he did not take this seriously for me, that this was the end of this marriage, final.
Long story short:
He was "HEART BROKEN" that I would give him an ultimatum like this, demanding a car. HE WORKS SO HARD AND THIS IS HOW I ACT, HE DOESNT EVEN KNOW ME ANYMORE blah blah blah.
Totally took my words and twisted them around, Got my parents involved. I was going to visit my dad that day during my lunch break and get his advice on the situation (I NEVER GO TO MY DAD so this was a big deal in my head) AH told me he had called my dad and talked to him for over an hour about it that morning...and basically they decided my money was better spent paying my mom more for daycare...ok wtf I am livid. Crying at work. Heartbroken. Betrayed. The next day I am woken from a dead sleep at 6 am from AH saying that he just sent me a text he meant to send my mom so I can delete it or read it he doesn't care- the text was asking my mom to ask my dad to "handle this car thing for him, as he will hate anything I pick out anyway because of how it all went down" ...just a terrible few days.
Now he has taken the reins on this entire thing, ignored my appointment , looking at every lender and dealer except the one I picked, Going through the bs motions of "Looking for a car" and I'm just disappointed. Wow. Again? no way (sarcasm)
The entire thing was twisted around and made me a spoiled brat. I have also in the past week dealt with passive aggressive body shaming, squelching of goals and strengths, gaslighted and blamed for asking for something I deserve, been told that I expect him to change, but I haven't - I don't show my love HIS WAY and blast it on social media and stroke his ego...King Baby.
But my crash landing plan B of a temporary move back home has been derailed big time. I have a dear work friend that has offered me a small loan if I need help finding a place. That's how you help people. My family has done nothing and is blind to all the disfunction. I am stronger than I realized, but my plan isn't very strong. Working on that (again) ..I have a new secret emergency credit card and some small extra income from a small business I am having success with...I have a friend with a loan if needed... I know this reply is all over the place- appreciate you all being here.
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Originally Posted by hearthealth
Hi Thousandwords,
I look at how does husband adjust and change when I bring up issues with him. Is there adjustments or just complaining? It's so much harder when they are not in a recovery program. Just being sober doesn't fix all the issues.
I look at how does husband adjust and change when I bring up issues with him. Is there adjustments or just complaining? It's so much harder when they are not in a recovery program. Just being sober doesn't fix all the issues.
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And also, I did not directly say anything to my parents (that's how we communicate )...but I am sure they knew I was upset because out of the blue my mom asked me to dinner this Friday. You better believe I will say something then. Nicely. No drama. Like an adult- face to face.
Realizing that AH and parents have been communicating under my radar for the past 6 months...who knows how much of my reality up to date has been manipulated. Mind blowing. But also very motivating for me.
Realizing that AH and parents have been communicating under my radar for the past 6 months...who knows how much of my reality up to date has been manipulated. Mind blowing. But also very motivating for me.
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thousandwords.....as you can see...when you start standing up for yourself with boundaries....it throws them for a loop. They will then, usually step up their efforts to control and rein you back in. Expect it....and don't let it stop you or derail you.
He is a real wiley Cayote ...suckering in your parents against you.....triangling at it's most obvious best.....
*****I've got a big news flash for him....we are not living in the 1950's anymore!!
He sounds like he is very Patriarchial.
Don't even try to change him. that stuff goes deep,,,and, you don't have that many more years to waste....
Your parents come from an older generation....so, they probably have their own ideas about marriage.....
The thing is you have our own life (and marriage) and your own ideas, ALSO.
They can have their own opinions (you can't control that)....but, they don't get a vote!
I think you "plan" sounds fabulous....Yeah, you might be upset and crying, etc...but, you have been this way in the marriage...The difference is that you can now be making progress on the road to escaping the prison of invisible bars.....
If I may be so bold....I think the idea of moving back with your parents,,,even, temporarily, is a bad idea. It is time for you to be on your own....
He is a real wiley Cayote ...suckering in your parents against you.....triangling at it's most obvious best.....
*****I've got a big news flash for him....we are not living in the 1950's anymore!!
He sounds like he is very Patriarchial.
Don't even try to change him. that stuff goes deep,,,and, you don't have that many more years to waste....
Your parents come from an older generation....so, they probably have their own ideas about marriage.....
The thing is you have our own life (and marriage) and your own ideas, ALSO.
They can have their own opinions (you can't control that)....but, they don't get a vote!
I think you "plan" sounds fabulous....Yeah, you might be upset and crying, etc...but, you have been this way in the marriage...The difference is that you can now be making progress on the road to escaping the prison of invisible bars.....
If I may be so bold....I think the idea of moving back with your parents,,,even, temporarily, is a bad idea. It is time for you to be on your own....
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Originally Posted by dandylion
thousandwords.....as you can see...when you start standing up for yourself with boundaries....it throws them for a loop. They will then, usually step up their efforts to control and rein you back in. Expect it....and don't let it stop you or derail you.
He is a real wiley cayote ...suckering in your parents against you.....triangling at it's most obvious best.....
*****i've got a big news flash for him....we are not living in the 1950's anymore!!
He sounds like he is very patriarchial.
Don't even try to change him. That stuff goes deep,,,and, you don't have that many more years to waste....
Your parents come from an older generation....so, they probably have their own ideas about marriage.....
The thing is you have our own life (and marriage) and your own ideas, also.
They can have their own opinions (you can't control that)....but, they don't get a vote!
I think you "plan" sounds fabulous....yeah, you might be upset and crying, etc...but, you have been this way in the marriage...the difference is that you can now be making progress on the road to escaping the prison of invisible bars.....
If i may be so bold....i think the idea of moving back with your parents,,,even, temporarily, is a bad idea. it is time for you to be on your own....
He is a real wiley cayote ...suckering in your parents against you.....triangling at it's most obvious best.....
*****i've got a big news flash for him....we are not living in the 1950's anymore!!
He sounds like he is very patriarchial.
Don't even try to change him. That stuff goes deep,,,and, you don't have that many more years to waste....
Your parents come from an older generation....so, they probably have their own ideas about marriage.....
The thing is you have our own life (and marriage) and your own ideas, also.
They can have their own opinions (you can't control that)....but, they don't get a vote!
I think you "plan" sounds fabulous....yeah, you might be upset and crying, etc...but, you have been this way in the marriage...the difference is that you can now be making progress on the road to escaping the prison of invisible bars.....
If i may be so bold....i think the idea of moving back with your parents,,,even, temporarily, is a bad idea. it is time for you to be on your own....
(And you are not being bold at all- Moving back home is now out of the question for me. Thank you
)
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