Smarie78

I had two of them this week. One with the alcoholic and one with my brother, both of whom I have codependent relationships with.

My brother - needs everything. everytime my phone rings and I see his name I know it's to ask me for something...my car, my money, my apartment. This has been the relationship for the last 15 plus years. I have the same issues with him as I do Abf. Boundary issues and fear. This week for probably the first time ever I said no. He asked me to order him an uber (to go to a bar and meet friends because you know if you don't have $3 to get to the bar you have money for the bar right? non-addict brother by the way). No explanation, no reason I couldn't...I just said I couldn't but that the bus was available right outside his apartment building for 2.25 and can take him right there. It wasn't even snarky, it was just a flat reply.

Abf - Last few weeks he has been coming over for our evenings together and has been showing up with off-behavior. Each time I discovered he was drunken. After many talks and requests to only come when he is sober and if not, to break our plans so I can do something on my own, he violates. Finally last night he came over, and as suspected, was drunk. Denied it the next day and said he would make it up to me tonight (we had made plans for this evening a few days ago). I said no. He begged he pleaded and I said no that I needed tonight to myself to go to a meeting and get to the gym and have some peace as I did not sleep last night much. The truth is, I can't bear another night by myself watching him passed out and treating me like a doormat. I want to be with him, but my inner voice can't take it. Can't take the disappointment and very likelihood that he would show up drunk again (and gasp, id have to acknowledge that he was using me to drink since he would never do it at the sober house or his mothers).

The subject of this post is that I expected these small little victories to feel good. To feel proud of myself for "sticking to my guns", having self-respect, saying no, standing up for myself as a person. What happened instead is I felt none of those things. With my brother I found myself angry immediately after he asked...I felt taken advantage of even when I said no and he didn't fight me on it. It's not that I felt guilty or bad, I just felt anger. And maybe sadness at the pathetic nature of the behavior. Almost like I was angry that he thought it was okay to treat me that way. Anger that things for him are that pathetically bad. I wanted to feel proud...it never came.

As for Abf, I don't feel proud or victorious. I spoke to a friend of mine who told me this was good practice for me to gain my confidence with boundaries and also to teach him that his temper tantrums will not work, but treating me with respect will. Saying no to him today was not about punishing him for his behavior, but instead showing myself a little bit of TLC. Something I really struggle with.

I guess I just thought that getting better would feel better....and maybe it will when it becomes the norm. I just hoped to feel a little bit of pride. I seem to instead feel discomfort and even a bit of pain, but maybe that's because I am literally acting outside of my comfort zone.

Refiner

This is exactly where I was going with my reply but you beat me to it! No pain, no gain. I think your feelings (anger, feeling used) are actually MUCH healthier than feeling "pride" for the very toxic, one-way relationships you've had with your brother and ABF. What you are doing by saying NO is laying down some very healthy boundaries (and MEANING IT) for what comes second nature without a second thought with non-codependents. A non-codependent (IMO) is more likely to feel that anger and not beam with pride for not allowing themselves to be a doormat. What I think is you've come WAYYYY more far than you're giving yourself credit for!

firebolt

Yeah, these are big victories my friend! It took us years of developing and nurturing our own bad behavior. We don't break them overnight, and it is UNCOMFORTABLE.

And BTW I agree with Refiner....feeling anger and sadness and taken advantage of are pretty normal feelings when you see their bad behavior.

Keep doing what you're doing! Things shift! Including our outlook...and eventually our pride in our own good behavior!

Ariesagain

Why shouldn't you feel angry when people are exploiting you?

Their behavior, in particular your "boyfriend's, show they have zero respect for you. Less than zero. You're his doormat to wipe his booze-soaked feet on.

Feeling angry in response to this treatment is just all kinds of healthy...you SHOULD be angry. You should be FURIOUS.

I just hope these moments add up enough for you to someday reclaim your life and your self-respect by kicking him to the curb.

Jaeger

Smarie,
When I first started enforcing my personal boundaries, I felt extreme anxiety. I think it's to be expected because it's so opposite of what we usually do. It takes practice and in time, you will be able to enforce those boundaries without a second thought.
Jaeger

SparkleKitty

Nobody ever died from being uncomfortable.

And nobody ever changed without it.

Smarie78

Thanks for all your replies...all very true. It's been mind boggling to hear him arguing with me almost in tears as though I was punishing him by not letting him come over today. Not once in all my explanations of needing to be at a meeting and some self-care did he acknowledge my needs. Not one single time. He almost embodied what I would imagine a bottle of vodka would be talking to an alcoholic. He even said the words, "why do you have to go to a meeting today? go tomorrow! tonight just be with me and let me hold you. I promise I will not let you down again!"....and I had to keep saying no...fight through the pain and the desire to give in because id rather be cuddled up to him than be in a meeting....but just like that bottle of booze I so badly wanted to fall into and take a sip....give up tomorrow....I had to keep saying...no...no....no.....I just can't. Just for today.

AnvilheadII

if you keep practicing, the "discussion" will get much shorter - and you won't allow him to go on and on arguing with your NO. and eventually it will get to:

Him/Anyone: Hey you wanna hang out tonite?
You: Thank you for the thought, but i have other plans. Perhaps some other time. Thanks for calling! Bye.

you do not HAVE to explain yourself. defend yourself. you can say NO and not HAVE a reason other than you don't WANNA.

he is NOT, repeat NOT a little boy. and the whining is really unattractive. you are NOT hurting his feelings.....he wants his way, he wants a place where he can be drunk. you're basically his dope house. regardless of what he SEZ this isn't about coochy coo miss you so bad baby stuff. so get those thoughts out of your head.

NYCDoglvr

If he shows up at your door smelling of alcohol refuse to admit him. It doesn't matter what you say, it's your actions that speak volumes. Regarding brother, why do you answer the phone if he only calls to beg for stuff?

PuzzledHeart

You go to the gym right?

Refiner got it right - "No pain, no gain." You don't do ab crunches or intervals with the expectation that it will actually feel like sunshine and daisies at that moment. In fact, it's going to suck. It's supposed to suck. Your body is supposed to be screaming, "WHEN IS THIS GOING TO BE OVER?"

And after a hard workout, do you expect your body to immediately transform ten seconds afterwards? Do you expect your body to drop ten pounds the next day? No (and usually your body is sore the day after!)

It takes time and consistent effort. And if you continue to put in the time and consistent effort, you will get better and stronger. And you will be able to take on things that you never thought possible.

But if you quit in the middle of it and decide not to put in the work, you'll just go back to the beginning.

(PS. I just took my first Spin class in five years last night - and I am exhausted!)

hopeful4

I second that enforcing my own boundaries made me nervous and have anxiety for a good while. It's a change, and change is hard.

You also seem to be in this never ending place with both of them, and it's not really changing. That too must give you anxiety.

You have a right to be angry when someone treats you badly. Just don't let that anger eat you alive. And eventually, your own self has to decide how much you are willing to put up with.

FireSprite

Yes, it takes a lot of repeated action before it starts to feel "normal" to react this way.

Anger can be good - it can be fuel to carry you during discomfort. It can motivate you to next steps. Or, like the infamous Maya Angelou reminds us, "bitterness is like cancer, it eats upon the host..... but anger is like fire, it burns everything clean." USE the energy of your anger is some way that benefits you.

Think of it this way - if it took 100,000 repeated actions for that to become your old normal, you'll need that plus more to reverse the habit. Hang in there Smarie, it can be so easy to think we're not getting "anywhere" when we aren't feeling Big Responses. This is another way I had to examine my expectations of Self - like, was it REASONABLE to expect myself to feel great after a couple of simple interactions?

atalose

Anger can be a good motivator if controlled properly.

Did you ever go on a diet, after eating clean for a few days even maybe a whole week jump on that scale, and not see that big change you were hoping for and then feeling extremely disappointed. Change takes consistent dedication to oneself and over a period of time.

The best part is that you actually said NO.

FallenAngelina

One thing I noticed was that when I said, "No - not today," I didn't always feel the pride and relief that I thought I would. I felt afraid that he really would take off. I found myself dying to hear from him about 12 hours after my "No - not today" and have had to do a lot of soul searching and own up to my own mixed signals that I'd been sending him. So I've had some work to do around facing my own fears of abandonment and why saying "No - not today" doesn't always make me feel immediately empowered. It's been a long term gain with a lot of practice.

Also, I found a lot of help from the idea that I don't have to give explanations and reasons for not being available. Giving explanations and claiming other commitments implies that you'd be hanging out with him if you could - and that's not really what you mean to convey. Not wanting to be with him is a totally legit basis for saying "No- not today" and you don't have to explain why every time. It's been especially empowering for me to be able to say, "No, you're not coming over because I haven't invited you over." I finally was able to go no-contact with my ABF when he insisted on coming over the second time it happened. The first time, I did not open the door, but the second time I got furious with him for violating my boundary and told him that I'd be involving the police if he showed up uninvited again. I love this guy to pieces, but a little anger really helped me enforce the boundary that I'd set for myself.

Smarie78

Thank you so much for all the supportive encouragement. All of these ideas never really occurred to me, especially the examples of fitness routine! Because that's important to me now I remember the start of that journey and the feelings were almost identical. I swear, this all feels almost horomonal lol. all the feelings ebbing and flowing...

Last night I stuck to my guns and refused to see him. He was pretty shocked. And guess what...I survived. And he didn't die. And I actually had a peaceful night. I took my dog down to the park after a meeting, instead of sitting on my sofa watching him drunk and passed out and babysitting, I ran into "dog friends" and chatted for a long while about well...dogs! I came home and cooked and felt the exhaustion all over myself. I missed him. But I really enjoyed having my windows open and the long peaceful stroll with the pup.

I slept great too! He texted me a long drawn out pity party, but failed to ask how I was doing. Did my rest help me, was I doing ok? Nope. Not surprising. It was and is always about him and how bad he slept and his nightmares and that I must be so over him because my text messages are so superficial and not warm and happy.

I can get use to this self-love I think.

Ariesagain

You nailed it. I was just thinking about you...the feeling isn't pride...it's more relief mixed with, what's the word...self-fondness, if that's a thing? Like you trust yourself a little more to not sacrifice your time and wellbeing for selfish others? To value yourself?

You weren't exactly comfortable saying yes, either, right? Might as well try "no" and get your peace back.

Good for you!

FireSprite

I think so too, keep going, you're doing great!!

AnvilheadII

and here's the thing.....if you go no contact, he will find another source for his "all about me" schtick. you can step out of the target range at any time.

Smarie78

All of it ^^^ yes yes yes. I think I had to feel what it was like first. Saying no...putting myself first. And it was strange waking up knowing that I could do it and stick to it. (ME????). That I didn't regret it. Not a bit. He kept wondering why....still is. I thought to myself, had I let him come over again, judging by the way he is going, there is a 99% chance he'd be drunk and 100% chance I would have a miserable night. If I didn't let him come over I had 100% chance of not having a miserable night. That just sounded better to me.

And just like I got so angry at my brother thinking it was even okay to ask me (still unemployed and out of work) for money again, I got that anger toward Abf for thinking it was ok for me to have him over when he hasn't been able to demonstrate he was coming over for anything other than using me as a crack house (yes to this whomever mentioned!). To think it was acceptable for him to try and talk me out of going to a meeting and instead hanging out with him. To think that I said no that my sanity needed a break, my body needed peace and rest....and he kept persisting completely discrediting any of my feelings. That's just not ok. It can never be ok. I'm no longer afraid to say that.


Thank you again for the supportive words....it's just like the gym (perfect analogy whomever made it up there ^^) when you see those little muscles start to pop out you never knew you had because all this time they've been hiding waiting for you to bring em out.