Friend closing out the bars
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Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 65
Friend closing out the bars
Been friends --we'll call her M- since freshman year of H.S. We started to become drinking buddies once we turned 21 and used to close out the bars together throughout my early-mid 20s. Since then, I've moderated my own drinking and don't want to do this anymore at almost 30, given my family history and former relationship with an alcoholic. I'm just really trying to be careful and don't want to cross that line.
She still is this way and it's gotten to the point where I barely hang out with her anymore and we have become very distant. We sometimes go on hikes or just dinner, but there is usually drinking involved during or after.
And when we hang out, I feel like it is awkward unless we start drinking! I feel like we have grown apart in many ways, but she is a positive influence in my life in certain ways so I don't want to lose her necessarily. Also I don't have many friends to begin with.
A few years ago, she, my bf and I took a train to a drinking town and we had to take the train back at a certain time or we'd have to pay a fortune to get home. Knowing how she is, I made it a point at the beginning of the night to tell her. Well, she refused to leave when we had to leave because she was drunk and talking to a guy, so we left. She got FURIOUS at me and was crying and cursing at me on the phone. My other friend was in the same town at a different bar and asked her to let M stay at her place, because we had to go, but M wouldn't answer her phone calls and just ended up asking a guy friend to pick her up. I feel guilty about this to this day bc I feel like I jeopardized her safety, but people have told me that she was disrespectful when she knew we had to leave. Since then I haven't done this, and I basically stay with her until the bar closes because she can't stop drinking. It is not a great influence on me bc then I will continue drinking too!
Just the last time we hung out we went for dinner and had 2 drinks and we went to the bathroom and she jokingly said "Ugh, I can't stop! Let's go to a bar." But we are getting too old for this- at least I feel like I am. I'm starting to think she has a drinking problem - her life isn't falling apart and she is functioning, is "a weekend warrior," but can't stop. Her family are all heavy drinkers so it makes sense.
I tend to hang out with her and drink bc it's comfortable and what we are used to. I know she is open to doing day trips, but she always asks me to go out at night- she has also been single for a while so she wants to meet people. My strategies have been taking small hikes, driving myself to meet her or just getting dinner and leaving, but she always suggests we take an Uber and stay over her place, which IS the safer option, but I'm not trying to close out the bars anymore.
Any suggestions with how to deal with this?
Thanks!
She still is this way and it's gotten to the point where I barely hang out with her anymore and we have become very distant. We sometimes go on hikes or just dinner, but there is usually drinking involved during or after.
And when we hang out, I feel like it is awkward unless we start drinking! I feel like we have grown apart in many ways, but she is a positive influence in my life in certain ways so I don't want to lose her necessarily. Also I don't have many friends to begin with.
A few years ago, she, my bf and I took a train to a drinking town and we had to take the train back at a certain time or we'd have to pay a fortune to get home. Knowing how she is, I made it a point at the beginning of the night to tell her. Well, she refused to leave when we had to leave because she was drunk and talking to a guy, so we left. She got FURIOUS at me and was crying and cursing at me on the phone. My other friend was in the same town at a different bar and asked her to let M stay at her place, because we had to go, but M wouldn't answer her phone calls and just ended up asking a guy friend to pick her up. I feel guilty about this to this day bc I feel like I jeopardized her safety, but people have told me that she was disrespectful when she knew we had to leave. Since then I haven't done this, and I basically stay with her until the bar closes because she can't stop drinking. It is not a great influence on me bc then I will continue drinking too!
Just the last time we hung out we went for dinner and had 2 drinks and we went to the bathroom and she jokingly said "Ugh, I can't stop! Let's go to a bar." But we are getting too old for this- at least I feel like I am. I'm starting to think she has a drinking problem - her life isn't falling apart and she is functioning, is "a weekend warrior," but can't stop. Her family are all heavy drinkers so it makes sense.
I tend to hang out with her and drink bc it's comfortable and what we are used to. I know she is open to doing day trips, but she always asks me to go out at night- she has also been single for a while so she wants to meet people. My strategies have been taking small hikes, driving myself to meet her or just getting dinner and leaving, but she always suggests we take an Uber and stay over her place, which IS the safer option, but I'm not trying to close out the bars anymore.
Any suggestions with how to deal with this?
Thanks!
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Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Wareham, Mass
Posts: 7,067
Hi, Mpie. Good to hear from you.
I guess my question is: do you like being sober?
You mentioned that you are moderating, and that's good.
So...if you like not drinking, then you should run with that and do what you need to to stay that way.
Your friend's path is her path. You know that.
You can express concern. You can tell her you are there for her.
But you don't have to drink with her.
You just don't.
I would say, work on sobriety. There is absolutely nothing good about the physical effects of alcohol, and it just gets worse over time.
You are young. Stop or strongly moderate now and you will bounce back quickly.
I recommend stop, but you kinda sound like you aren't there yet.
Peace.
I guess my question is: do you like being sober?
You mentioned that you are moderating, and that's good.
So...if you like not drinking, then you should run with that and do what you need to to stay that way.
Your friend's path is her path. You know that.
You can express concern. You can tell her you are there for her.
But you don't have to drink with her.
You just don't.
I would say, work on sobriety. There is absolutely nothing good about the physical effects of alcohol, and it just gets worse over time.
You are young. Stop or strongly moderate now and you will bounce back quickly.
I recommend stop, but you kinda sound like you aren't there yet.
Peace.
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Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 145
You mention she is a "positive influence" in your life, but I couldn't see how by your post. If you want to keep her as a friend, you need to have boundaries. Let her know up front you'd love to hang out and do hikes and dinner, but just LEAVE before the drinking starts. If this is a true friendship, it will stay intact regardless of your (lack of) drinking habits. If it doesn't......
I had to abandon many "friends" who I drank with. And guess what? They are not reeling from this. They moved on to other people to drink with. So I'm sure she can do the same.
Good luck!
I had to abandon many "friends" who I drank with. And guess what? They are not reeling from this. They moved on to other people to drink with. So I'm sure she can do the same.
Good luck!
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Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 821
Originally Posted by Mpie9 
I'm starting to think she has a drinking problem - her life isn't falling apart and she is functioning, is "a weekend warrior," but can't stop.
I understand heartstring attachments to friends and she's certainly not always fall down drunk, so cutting her off perhaps isn't appealing for you. BUT it's important for you to know that most healthy thinking people would not be drawn to a person who drinks like your friend does. It would, at very least, be boring. Given that you also have your challenges with drinking, Al-Anon would be a very good place for you to sort out what's going on with you. The important thing here is not her drinking or her behavior or even your friendship, but for you to get a better understanding of why you have torn feelings about being her friend. This one friendship is bringing up an issue, but the friendship is not the issue. The treasure for you here is in learning more about yourself.
Al-Anon can be a wonderful place to meet new friends. I poked around a few meetings, found one I jelled with and over the course of a few months, began to meet up with people outside of the meetings. It's a good way to see people repeatedly without the awkwardness of having to make a plan to meet up again. Friendships can form naturally and over time. The pool is a self-selected group of people who generally strive for healthy living and happy thinking, so most are on an upward path in life.
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Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,792
I have been told, and I believe this, that a large percentage of "problem drinking" is engaged in by codependents who drink to appease someone else. We have read posts on this site that confirm this.
In my case, when I quit, I didn't want to hang out with drinkers any more. After all, they have a love affair with drink, and anyone else in their life will come in second.
In my case, when I quit, I didn't want to hang out with drinkers any more. After all, they have a love affair with drink, and anyone else in their life will come in second.
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
I drank like your friend did for a while (I spent quite a few years rarely drinking because I was married to a sober alcoholic), and my inner "weekend warrior" graduated eventually into full-blown alcoholism. Your friend certainly seems to be on her way.
There isn't much you can do to control her, but drinking with her is a form of enabling--you are making it easy and comfortable for her to indulge herself. If I were you, I'd stay away from recreational drinking with her. If you go out to dinner and want to have a drink before dinner or a glass or two of wine, that's one thing, but hanging out in bars is strictly a drinking-related activity, and one that a friend should not encourage/enable.
That is a boundary you can make for yourself. She won't like it, but one of the things that eventually convinced me to quit drinking was the realization that other people were noticing and obviously not approving of the way I drank.
There isn't much you can do to control her, but drinking with her is a form of enabling--you are making it easy and comfortable for her to indulge herself. If I were you, I'd stay away from recreational drinking with her. If you go out to dinner and want to have a drink before dinner or a glass or two of wine, that's one thing, but hanging out in bars is strictly a drinking-related activity, and one that a friend should not encourage/enable.
That is a boundary you can make for yourself. She won't like it, but one of the things that eventually convinced me to quit drinking was the realization that other people were noticing and obviously not approving of the way I drank.
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: W Washington
Posts: 11,589
it is perfectly ok and normal for friends to grow apart - paths diverge, interests change and we don't get to KEEP everyone in our lives.
My strategies have been taking small hikes, driving myself to meet her or just getting dinner and leaving,
that sounds like a desire to try and CONTROL the events, with a lot of planning and attempts to divert on your part. seems like a lot of work.
but I'm not trying to close out the bars anymore.
so you learn to say NO. you get to chose what you do, where you go.
My strategies have been taking small hikes, driving myself to meet her or just getting dinner and leaving,
that sounds like a desire to try and CONTROL the events, with a lot of planning and attempts to divert on your part. seems like a lot of work.
but I'm not trying to close out the bars anymore.
so you learn to say NO. you get to chose what you do, where you go.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 65
Thank you everyone for the input! I know I am once again creating no boundaries and appeasing a drinker friend. I can say no or leave if I want.
I actually hung out with her at her house last night and had 2 drinks over a span of like 4 hours (and she could tell, as she eagerly poured a drink for me when my first glass was empty). I had a good time regardless just talking and hanging out which was easier because her other friend was there too. I noticed it's def kind of an awkward exchange between the 2 of us until she drinks more. She def has social anxiety, which i've known but really realized that last night because I wasn't drunk and saw the complete change in demeanor over the span of the night. I was trying to take note of our dynamic and if we actually "get along" or are only really friends because we drink together in the same room/bar. We def do get along on a superficial level.
I also brought up doing day trips last night like in BK or NYC and her immediate response was yes i'd love to go! They have cute bars there, or we have to do brunch (aka drink). It is clear her activities have to revolve around drinking. I used to think this way a little, but I really realized this summer when I went to a music festival with my mom that I really don't need to drink to have fun. It was a liberating experience having been around it so long in my relationship. Luckily my other 2 closest friends barely drink and could care less, and I connect with them on a deep level which is good.
She also invited me to go to a bar next weekend with her one family friend and just listening to M and her brother invite me, it was clear i'm still viewed as this party animal that is a good time at bars. I don't know what to do anymore. My best friend doesn't drink a lot and has like 2 drinks at the bar, even with M around. I can clearly moderate, and i can control the situation by bringing my car and just leaving. I def have to have this conversation with her too, because I like to be open. I think how she reacts and responds would be a clear indication of where she stands.
I've never really considered ending the friendship until reading some of the posts. Ive just kind of distanced myself and I still don't necessarily want to end it? I don't know. I have other friends or acquaintances I should say that I really get along with and they drink too, even an al anon friend I made recently made drinks! I just don't know if it's problem drinking- that's the difference. I know if I were an alcoholic and in recovery, this would be different. This is def a good topic to talk about in Al Anon.
I actually hung out with her at her house last night and had 2 drinks over a span of like 4 hours (and she could tell, as she eagerly poured a drink for me when my first glass was empty). I had a good time regardless just talking and hanging out which was easier because her other friend was there too. I noticed it's def kind of an awkward exchange between the 2 of us until she drinks more. She def has social anxiety, which i've known but really realized that last night because I wasn't drunk and saw the complete change in demeanor over the span of the night. I was trying to take note of our dynamic and if we actually "get along" or are only really friends because we drink together in the same room/bar. We def do get along on a superficial level.
I also brought up doing day trips last night like in BK or NYC and her immediate response was yes i'd love to go! They have cute bars there, or we have to do brunch (aka drink). It is clear her activities have to revolve around drinking. I used to think this way a little, but I really realized this summer when I went to a music festival with my mom that I really don't need to drink to have fun. It was a liberating experience having been around it so long in my relationship. Luckily my other 2 closest friends barely drink and could care less, and I connect with them on a deep level which is good.
She also invited me to go to a bar next weekend with her one family friend and just listening to M and her brother invite me, it was clear i'm still viewed as this party animal that is a good time at bars. I don't know what to do anymore. My best friend doesn't drink a lot and has like 2 drinks at the bar, even with M around. I can clearly moderate, and i can control the situation by bringing my car and just leaving. I def have to have this conversation with her too, because I like to be open. I think how she reacts and responds would be a clear indication of where she stands.
I've never really considered ending the friendship until reading some of the posts. Ive just kind of distanced myself and I still don't necessarily want to end it? I don't know. I have other friends or acquaintances I should say that I really get along with and they drink too, even an al anon friend I made recently made drinks! I just don't know if it's problem drinking- that's the difference. I know if I were an alcoholic and in recovery, this would be different. This is def a good topic to talk about in Al Anon.
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Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: northern michigan. not the U.P.
Posts: 15,281
" I don't know what to do anymore."
you dont know what to do or you wont do what you know to do?
" I know I am once again creating no boundaries and appeasing a drinker friend. I can say no or leave if I want. "
"This is def a good topic to talk about in Al Anon."
forgive me for my ignorance, but doesnt alanon have steps to work?
doesnt alanon have sponsors like AA does?
forgive me for my ignorance again, but does distancing oneself from a person involve having drinks with them the night before saying
"Ive just kind of distanced myself ...."???
idk, but my personal experience with distancing myself from someone toxic involved no contact
you dont know what to do or you wont do what you know to do?
" I know I am once again creating no boundaries and appeasing a drinker friend. I can say no or leave if I want. "
"This is def a good topic to talk about in Al Anon."
forgive me for my ignorance, but doesnt alanon have steps to work?
doesnt alanon have sponsors like AA does?
forgive me for my ignorance again, but does distancing oneself from a person involve having drinks with them the night before saying
"Ive just kind of distanced myself ...."???
idk, but my personal experience with distancing myself from someone toxic involved no contact
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Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 2,393
I think if you just do "your thing" e.g. only have 1 or 2 drinks at the most and leave when it's no longer 'fun' being around her things will organically take a different shape in your relationship and it won't be a big deal bc she'll be so focused on keeping her hardcore partying buddies.
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Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 773
Originally Posted by Refiner
I think if you just do "your thing" e.g. only have 1 or 2 drinks at the most and leave when it's no longer 'fun' being around her things will organically take a different shape in your relationship and it won't be a big deal bc she'll be so focused on keeping her hardcore partying buddies.
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,699
I've never really considered ending the friendship until reading some of the posts. Ive just kind of distanced myself and I still don't necessarily want to end it? I don't know. I have other friends or acquaintances I should say that I really get along with and they drink too, even an al anon friend I made recently made drinks! I just don't know if it's problem drinking- that's the difference. I know if I were an alcoholic and in recovery, this would be different. This is def a good topic to talk about in Al Anon.
Since it's clear to me now that I don't love drinking, or hanging out with intoxicated people, I've just started being honest.
No thanks, I don't want to go to a bar - want to go on a hike with me?
No, I dont want to sit around and drink, lets go see a movie, to a yoga class, whatever.
Many of those people have kinda weeded themselves out.....they don't want to go to yoga
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 13,560
I have a friend who I go way back with who always wants me to go out in the evenings. I have the same issue. She wants to drink and hang out at bars. I do not. That's just not my thing. I am getting ready to sit her down and just let her know that I love her, want to hang out with her, but have no plans to go drink with her. If she is truly my friend, she will want to do something else. If not, I guess we won't be hanging out.
I have come to a place in my life that I don't have time for drama, and I definitely am not going to do something I don't want to do just to please someone else.
I have come to a place in my life that I don't have time for drama, and I definitely am not going to do something I don't want to do just to please someone else.
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Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 133
I just read a book called "Understanding a High Functioning Alcoholic" and there's a section in it that talks about the college student that drinks. And when everyone gets out of college, the one with the issue continues to drink while the others fall into their normal lives and have normal relationships with alcohol. The alcoholic will look for those to continue drinking with them. It looks like you've been one of those people. Drinking with your friend like you're doing is enabling her. It's ok for people to go their separate ways; friendships often just run their course. (And btw, just because she fills up your glass doesn't mean you have to drink it. )
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: Florida
Posts: 6,780
If it were me, I'd just tell her exactly what you told us - that you're growing up & don't want to socialize in that way, that often, any longer. If she values your friendship, she'll hear you. If she really is an addict, her addictive voice will win that attention instead. Either way, you'll know where you stand.
For what it's worth - I still DO close down a lot of bars, at least once a month, and I'm in my 40's. While many of us do drink, it's not about the drinking it's about being able to see live rock music which has always been a big part of my life. I know some of the musicians, bartenders, bouncers & sound guys so it's sort of like going to a friend's house for me.
Some of our group don't care to stay out that late for any reason so they carpool separately. Generally I am done drinking & have switched fully to water a couple of hours before closing but we always hang through the last set. We also always rotate turns being DD & know going into the evening what our Exit Plan is so that we're all clear about our expectations going in. (We even use a "Safe Word" so there's no mistaking that I'm serious when I say it's time to go.)
And when it's been my turn I have left people who refuse to get into the car for their ride home. I will not fight with drunks in parking lots at midnight & I'm not apologizing for it - IMO, THEY are the ones being disrespectful. When they call me the next day & complain that they "can't believe you left me like that!" I tell them I can't believe they have so little respect that they put me in the position to choose... shuts them right up & I've never had to leave the same person twice.
For what it's worth - I still DO close down a lot of bars, at least once a month, and I'm in my 40's. While many of us do drink, it's not about the drinking it's about being able to see live rock music which has always been a big part of my life. I know some of the musicians, bartenders, bouncers & sound guys so it's sort of like going to a friend's house for me.
Some of our group don't care to stay out that late for any reason so they carpool separately. Generally I am done drinking & have switched fully to water a couple of hours before closing but we always hang through the last set. We also always rotate turns being DD & know going into the evening what our Exit Plan is so that we're all clear about our expectations going in. (We even use a "Safe Word" so there's no mistaking that I'm serious when I say it's time to go.)
And when it's been my turn I have left people who refuse to get into the car for their ride home. I will not fight with drunks in parking lots at midnight & I'm not apologizing for it - IMO, THEY are the ones being disrespectful. When they call me the next day & complain that they "can't believe you left me like that!" I tell them I can't believe they have so little respect that they put me in the position to choose... shuts them right up & I've never had to leave the same person twice.
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: Florida
Posts: 6,780
Originally Posted by firebolt
Many of those people have kinda weeded themselves out.....they don't want to go to yoga
I can't count them number of times I've invited people to things they refuse to even TRY. They look at me like I have 3 heads if I ask them to do yoga, ha. I end up doing most of this stuff alone & loving it anyway!
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