Smarie78

So I like to say I "go to alanon", but I visit SR more than I do Alanon and I am starting to realize that by not physically going, I am really not in any kind of a "recovery" program. It took me a while to actually even understand what people meant by being in recovery who weren't alcoholics. I kept thinking, wait...why do WE need recovery?? We aren't the sick ones! Why are people on the F&F forum talking about their recovery if they aren't alcoholics?

That said, did you notice that when you physically attended Alanon you became much more healthy? What about the steps? A sponsor? I realized that all the times I went were for venting about the alcoholic in my life and sharing with everyone how awful his addiction is. Maybe there was even a little part of me that liked the attention of the contest in pity for having what felt like the declaration that "my alcoholic is worse than your alcoholic!"

Any recovering/recovered codependents owe their success to an actual rigid program of recovery? (not just writing about it and analyzing and becoming obsessed with the addict and making the mental checklist in your head of all the wrong things they are doing)

Sasha1972

I've been going for a couple of months, and while I'm not completely evangelical about it, I liked the fact that we don't have to talk about the alcoholic - in the meetings I've been to, we are actually not encouraged to talk about HIM (or her) and how bad HIS drinking is and all the bad stuff HE has done and what might HE be thinking and is HE ever going to stop drinking. The focus is very much on building new skills and habits of thought. People might share that they've had a really bad week because e.g. their kid got a DUI or whatever, but the focus is on - so how are you doing, what are you using to help you with this difficult moment in your life, what might you learn from what you're going through.

I don't think I'd want to go to a meeting where everyone is banging on about their alcoholics and their antics. I want to figure out how to have a good life, whether or not the "qualifier" stops drinking, keeps drinking, wins the Nobel Peace Prize or falls off a bridge. Al Anon offers some good tools for doing that.

However, I don't think of myself as "codependent" - "enabler", certainly, for a long time, and now "stuck dealing with the ongoing consequences".

honeypig

For an explanation, try this: But I Don?t Want to Go to Al-Anon! And I'm sure you can find a lot more if you search a bit. When I came here, I believed I was the "good one" in the relationship and was more than a little miffed at the suggestion that perhaps I was part of the problem, even if I didn't cause the drinking. Eventually, yes, I DID see where I had a thing or two or ten or a thousand about myself that perhaps weren't healthy and that maybe I could be working on those things instead of complaining about AH. The first option had at least the possibility of bearing some kind of useful fruit, while the second had never done me any good so far...

This is so NOT my experience of any Alanon meeting I've ever been to. I think before you worry about a sponsor, etc., you need to find a group that actually follows the Alanon program! I found that the meeting at the most convenient time and place for me was not always the one that did me the most good. Be prepared to perhaps inconvenience yourself a little in the interest of finding a healthy, useful, uplifting meeting where there is actually some experience, strength and wisdom being shared instead of being a "contest in pity" w/sharing of "my A is worse than your A" stories.

I used Alanon and SR together and found they complemented each other very well indeed. B/c my work schedule changed frequently over those years, I attended a number of different meetings, large and small, day and night, book study, step study, etc. Some I did a lot of learning in, others not as much--but once again, the focus was on US, the spouse/sibling/parent/etc., NOT on the A.

FallenAngelina

Every Al-Anon meeting should begin with the same script, which contains this: "Please remember that in Al-Anon we keep the focus on us and not on the alcoholic." If you are going to a meeting in which the members repeatedly get involved in "my A is worse than your A" topics, then find a new meeting. This is not the purpose of Al-Anon.

I consider myself codependent because I respond emotionally to the alcoholic in my life. It's not a label that I am doomed to carry for the rest of my life, but for now, I find it helpful to admit that I am highly susceptible (the Steps call it "powerless") to falling into the relationship dance with my A. That, to me, is codependence. A heathy thinker has zero interest and attraction to an alcoholic or an addict. Al-Anon meetings help me keep my focus on this attraction, my way of thinking, my emotional responses, my choices, my attitudes, my feelings. Al-Anon meetings help me take responsibility for my part in the relationship and give me new ways to think, new tools for a healthier life.

I started going to Al-Anon in March of this year and it is absolutely a turning point in my life. I am a pretty "together" person and getting this involved with an alcoholic was something that I found embarrassing and confusing, but I had to admit to myself that I was indeed powerless to un-involve myself. My A is very, very, very attractive to me. I don't at all think that I am powerless to change and in fact, Al-Anon (and individual therapy) are the keys in my healthier thinking (AKA recovery) but admitting to myself that I needed help managing this relationship was the first step in changing. It is recovery, just as an alcoholic recovers. I did not turn to substance or liquor, but I have emotional pain just as deeply as an addict does and I'd been trying to manage it with codependence or relationship abstinence. Al-Anon and therapy are helping me learn how to have a loving, sexual, intimate relationship that is healthy, stable and energizing. I am not there yet, but I am definitely on my way, AKA recovering. Embracing Al-Anon was a huge turning point for me because it signaled my recognition that what I had been doing was not working and that I needed help changing. It has nothing to do with the alcoholic in your life.

The steps:
I am not too keen on the concept of "defects of character" or of asking my higher power to "remove them" but I try not to let anything stop me from gathering up all the good stuff that Al-Anon has to offer. I don't think that I'll be doing a moral inventory because that kind of judgmental approach doesn't work for me, but I think that I'll be able to find a way to meet the spirit of those Steps. To me, the most helpful Steps are the first three and those are what I focus on right now. I get enormous benefit from staying in the heart of Steps 1-3.

Sponsor:
I have my eye out for someone who might be a good fit, but so far I have met people who fill more of a "friend" role. I do see the value in cultivating a sponsor relationship and am open to it, but as with the Steps, for now I'm not active in that part. Again, I don't let the lack of a sponsor keep me from embracing all of the other great aspects of Al-Anon.

I do find "magic" in just attending the meetings. I find powerful inspiration of the bravery of others who are there to open up and share their feeling, even for two minutes each. Recounting war stories is not the purpose of Al-Anon and there's no magic in that. Taking two or three or four minutes to share and witness the absolute truth of another human being is where the magic is for me.

honeypig

FA said some really important things, I think. One of them is that you may not (WILL not!) agree w/everything you hear in Alanon. "Take what you like and leave the rest" is often part of the opening and/or closing reading, recognizing that we are all at different points in our recoveries and will see things differently.

Many of the things I "left" in the earlier days of my own recovery are things that I definitely "take" now. My understanding has changed. It's like reading the same book at 15, at 25, at 35, at 45--you'll understand it differently each time.

I never did get a sponsor but still felt I got a lot of benefit from Alanon. However, I know some folks claim it's absolutely necessary for getting the full benefit.

I feel much the same as FA, in that the "magic" of the meetings is simply in sharing w/other people, other people who get it. People who will help you find your own way rather than tell you what to do. People who will inspire you to do better and be better. People who will laugh, and make you laugh, in the midst of chaos and point out the tiny candle flame of hope in the darkness.

I think that may be the quick and easy test for a good meeting--if you leave feeling uplifted, lighter at heart, and more hopeful than when you walked in, it's a good one. If not, well, then, keep looking or if worst comes to worst, start your own.

AnvilheadII

no one should be venting about the alcoholic in their life during an alanon meeting. that is not the purpose. it isn't a bitch fest - it is a PROGRAM of RECOVERY with a loose set of informal guidelines.

one does not GET healthy by simply sitting in a building anymore than one GETS healthy by sitting in the gym and watching others. ANY recovery is HARD work. and it takes TIME, CONSISTENCY, and DEDICATION.

are you even familiar with the 12 steps? have you read any literature?

Maudcat

My experience was that when someone was new to the meeting, they were often compelled to "tell their story," which usually meant talking about the dysfunctionality of the addict in their lives.
If they kept coming back, though, and as they began to heal and enjoy support, that happened less and less. They placed the focus on themselves and how best to navigate the family situation.
I found that people who continued to talk about the A soon fell away because they didn't find the kind of support they hoped to get.
Another issue that came up at times was people who were in AA and Al-Anon wanted to talk AA, not Al-Anon.
That got tricky at times.

Smarie78

I don't know that people I saw at meetings used them entirely to bitch or complain, but more so in the early days when I was going, it was very much of an outlet to let out my anger toward the alcoholic since I couldn't tell people in my real life what was happening at home. I very much wanted everyone to know what was happening to me at the meetings because I felt incredibly isolated. I was full of anger and I wanted to tell people all about it. Yes, in many ways it felt like those sharing including myself, were discussing what the addict did to them, and while it may not be the "purpose" of Alanon, it was certainly a safe zone to vent and get that hand on your shoulder that says "I've been there too. you aren't alone in what is happening". The magic did come for me at times as hONEY says, in that I felt lighter and less alone and accepted.Some stories, like my own, focused on the behavior we were dealing with as others were hurting us, but most times they would segue from that into "and this is what I know and learned and am doing to make it better".

That feeling of "my alcoholic is worse than yours" came from a place of shame and self-pity. Of feeling like this is the worst thing that has ever happened to you and that nobody told you what addiction looked like. Perhaps an anger that it wasn't the brand of alcoholism you thought you knew. The kind in media that seems tolerable but not destructive. Not at all like what you were seeing.

Smarie78

@Anvil - of course I am familiar with them. I have gone to several Alanon meetings and am well versed in AA in addition to the steps. To be honest, there are elements of the program, particularly the steps, that I do not believe in. I do not believe in the idea of turning a disease over to the HP for example. For me, it doesn't mean anything. I do not look at addiction as a character defect nor do I look at a HP as the savior. I look at it as it is, a progressive brain disease that requires medical attention be it group therapy - in the form of an AA meetings for support, meds for any underlying mental health disease, and a commitment to work to change. Again - these are my own feelings around the program. it's obviously helped people so happy to know there are many who've benefitted. I like the meetings for support and encouragement and yes, the occasional venting on how one's life is being impacted by an addict, but more importantly I like the way each of those stories tend to end with how the codependent handled themselves despite. I don't think meetings should have a hands off policy toward discussing the addict (and the impact you are facing)...especially since newcomers likely come to meetings seeking a safe space to talk - much as they do here.

Cyranoak

...In the Puget Sound region there are many, many meetings and I've been to a lot of them (I'll drive pretty far if I need a meeting). I have found myself comfortable in most, even when I don't know anybody there, but there are three types that I abhor.

The first is when meetings have no leadership from the group, or have a self-appointed leader with rules of their own that are inconsistent with the principals of the program. I've found this type of meeting to be rare.

The second is meetings that begin or end with a specifically Christian prayer (usually the Lord's prayer which I think is beautiful except when used in AA or Alanon meetings). Not only is that absolutely against the program which is spiritual but not religious, but it also does two things I find very damaging to the program and it's mission-- it violates a major principal of the program weakening all of the other principals and also obscuring the message, and also creates an unfriendly environment for non-Christians, Agnostics, and Atheists making them less likely to stay or come back (and this is very, very wrong on so many levels).

Third, meetings where people interrupt, or where they respond/react to other people's sharing. This is absolute ******** and has no place in a meeting unless somebody is taking an excessive amount of time, and keeping other people from being able to share (five minutes or less is a good guideline). There is no scenario where it is appropriate to criticize or directly respond to somebody's share in a meeting, though afterwards is OK if they have crossed a line in terms of sharing information that maybe they should not have.

One thing-- you'll often hear the Serenity Prayer at meetings which I don't see the same way as the Lord's prayer. First, I can say it without saying "God." Second, it could be any God as this prayer works just as well in Judiasm or Islam, and is consistent with Buddhism as well. It doesn't divide IMHO.

My two cents...

Cyranoak

FallenAngelina

Just to clarify: There is no hands off policy like this. There is, however, a definite purpose of Al-Anon and that is to keep the focus on ourselves, not the alcoholic. I have never heard anyone shut down anyone else for talking about their A and sometimes it is an appropriate topic for their share, but a good meeting will have members who mentor how to keep the focus on ourselves and in this way, newcomers can progress from venting to really learning and growing (AKA recovering.)

AnvilheadII

To be honest, there are elements of the program, particularly the steps, that I do not believe in. I do not believe in the idea of turning a disease over to the HP for example. For me, it doesn't mean anything. I do not look at addiction as a character defect nor do I look at a HP as the savior.

The Steps ARE the program. We don't get to pick and choose. From your statement above i think a bit more studying on the steps, what they mean and how they are applied would be in order. to be honest you sound like someone who has been to maybe 2 meetings, ever, and breezed thru a handout.

tomsteve

welp, smarie, you seem to have a very bad misconception of what THE program of AA is( or theres a different big book that was published without my knowledge). it may be youre not as well versed as you seem to think. but thats ok- you can learn!
there is absolutely nowhere in AA literature that says we turn the disease over to outrHP. in fact, the big book uses the word disease 1 time, which that time, and all the times the word "malady' is used- it refers to the spiritual diesease and spiritual malady.
we dont turn the malady over to a HP. we dont turn the disease over.
we turn out will( our thoughts) and lives( our actions) over to the CARE of our HP. that doesnt mean BAM! we dont have to do anything else- our will and life is ONLY in the CARE of our HP- we still have to do the footwork.
AA doesnt look at alcoholism as a character defect either. AA looks at alcoholism as just a symptom of much deeper problems.
AA doesnt say a HP is a savior either. AA says a HP can HELP US solve our problems.
AA says it isnt a cure all- there are problems that AA cant fix. AA encourages people to see outside help and emphasizes that a few times in the big book. AA says there are instances where medical attention may be necessary.

but what AA does and how it does it shouldnt even be a concern for you. how alcoholism is treated shouldnt be a concern for you.
unless you would like to continue going around the same old mountain.

so, heres a little analogy;
going to meetings and thinkin that will help me- whether it be alcoholism,codependency,an eating disorder or whatever. i go to thos emeetings and read everything about them:

i was diagnosed stage 3 metastic melanoma 13 months into recovery. never heard of melanoma until then. i started reading up on melanoma and the treatments. i started gaining alot of knowledge of melanoma.
id be dead today if all i did was read and not get into action.
if i just went to AA meetings, didnt get the big book,read it, AND get someone who had already gone through the steps,understood THE program, and could explain it to me,
i probably would have been locked up or covered up in short order.

Sasha1972

At the risk of being nitpicky - not everyone at an Al Anon meeting would consider themselves "codependent" (me, for instance). We're all stuck dealing with a difficult alcoholic, but the relationships to the alcoholic vary tremendously. For me, Al Anon helps me to understand (and partially undo) the impact of 20 years married to an alcoholic, as well as to manage the ongoing challenge of having an alcoholic as my child's father, even though I have no other attachment to him any more.

Talking about him all the time for me would be the opposite of detachment - which to me means working through individual situations/crises as they present themselves, and having a good life for myself the rest of the time.

NYCDoglvr

HUH? I'll certainly admit to "sick" behavior: staying in a relationship that was very self-destructive and deluding myself I loved the person. It wasn't "love" it was need for a substance (another person) in order to avoid dealing with my own issues. In my opinion there's a huge difference between digital "recovery" and doing the steps with a sponsor. Without Alanon, and the support I got, I never would have changed.

Forward12

Nailed it. Alanon is for your own recovery. If you are still obsessed with and complaining about the A in your life, then the codependency is still raging hard. If you want to heal and better yourself, follow the steps of alanon.

LexieCat

I'd also like to note that people in Al-Anon do not criticize the newcomer who comes in with tales of woe/drama--it very well MAY be the first safe place for that person to share about what's going on at home. HOWEVER, people who have been coming for a while should know better than to focus on the alcoholic, and by modeling the focus on the solution, rather than the problem, most members get the hang of it shortly. And if they stay stuck, someone should kindly take them aside and let them know the purpose of the meetings.

I'd also note that conversations outside the meeting are not looked at the same way--often people who are either sponsors or willing to share their numbers are willing to lend an ear. Even so, though, most people will eventually remind you that focusing on the solution is more helpful than focusing on the problem.

schnappi99

I work as meticulous a program in alanon as I am capable of because doing so transforms me.

I average 2 meetings /week, I have a sponsor and have worked all the steps except 9 which my sponsor has on hold while I pursue living amends in all my relationships. I have a service position in Alanon and join some other AA's for monthly hospital and institution meeings. I am trying to model the behavior of people (AA, Alanon and others) who have transformed themselves from wretchedness of various kinds because that is what I want.

I lived 40+ years feeling less-than, insecure, resentful, separate when the pressure was on, average and kind of depressed when it was not, and when booze became a problem in my marriage all that turned into a nightmare.

Alanon simply told me "if you want what we have do what we did", so thats my game. I have found I get more of what I want when I do more of what they did.

Getting out of the tendency to judge the program and have preferences was key for me... I had to get it into my head that I was the only obstacle to feeling better and I am only as far from feeling better as I am unwilling to change myself.

What I really want is to be comfortable in my own head and in my own life, nothing I tried before Alanon has worked as well and as thoroughly

aliciagr

Smarie,

I actually hold beliefs about addiction that are right along with lines of what you just posted. I was going to Alanon meetings and just didnt feel like it was really meeting my needs. Its ok to take what you want and leave the rest, but if you have to leave too much then its time to rethink. But I know what you mean about the aspect of just having support, being able to talk, share and vent if you want. There were people who talked in some of the meetings I went to, especially the Naranon meeting I attended, and in the AA I went to with my husband a few times. It would be good if there was a social network where people could connect that wasnt really attached to a specific program and you could talk about anything you want. even have crosstalk to a certain degree. I have not attended one specifically but I know sometimes local medical centers hold support groups for families dealing with substance abuse, also if you find a addiction doctor they sometimes can direct you to support systems. Just a thought. I have decided to stick with therapy when I need to talk it out, or go online. I hope you find what works for you.

aliciagr

This seems like an Alanon concept, but I was wondering if you could verify. I was told something like this, but I didnt actually find it in approved literature.