loonie2427

I'm feeling a bit stuck. He was sober for 5 days, during which time he took days off of work to work on himself. Since going back to work, he's drank most of the days but "I'm really trying." It hit me yesterday when I needed to go to the doctor unexpectedly that, if I had been unable to drive myself, I wouldn't have been able to rely on him. With two young children, that hit hard.

I guess my question is how do you know they're really trying? Do you ever really know? Does that even matter ultimately? I feel like life is just always "too stressful." He won't need to drink once he starts his own business (because that's not stressful at all...). We are in counseling (which I ageeed to only if he didn't drink on those days... only happened on the first session and last week after she told us not to come if he'd been drinking), and he's seeing his own therapist. Just not sure what to make of everything.

Forward12

If he's drinking, he's not trying. It sounds like he's only going to counseling to trying and appease you. These are pretty much alcohol hallmarks to do the bare minimum to just "get by", while still keeping the drinking going.
Until he truly wants to get sober himself, going to AA often if not daily, perhaps rehab, or other measures to show he's serious, nothing will change.

AnvilheadII

recovery looks like recovery.

think of someone who is training for the Boston Marathon....a 26 MILE run. they wouldn't talk about when or if this or that happens, they'd be killing the juicer and going thru running shoes. they would continually PRACTICE running. they would have a schedule. they'd run in rain, sleet, snow and thunderstorms. they'd up their protein, be on running forums, have some accountability buddies.

they would LOOK LIKE someone who runs.

you could watch me for five minutes and KNOW i am not one of those people.

marriage counseling is useless if one party is drinking. because drinking overrides everything else....there IS no relationship to work on, as the drinker's primary relationship is with ALCOHOL.

loonie2427

I had pushed for counseling for a while, even before his drinking got bad. It's funny that he finally agreed to it once he was drinking but only under the condition that the drinking not be the focus. I knew it would be a primary focus, but I followed his request and didn't even mention it as one of the issues to discuss. It came out anyway of course, and the sessions haven't been very helpful simply because he hasn't been sober for the majority of them.

AnvilheadII

what do YOU want? what that does not require change from anyone else?

loonie2427

I feel like all of my "I wants" are still dependent on other people.
I want to be able to rely on my spouse. I want to be able to entrust my kids' safety and wellbeing to their father. I want to have a marriage built on trust.
I mean, I want to have a beach house on the ocean, but I don't know how realistic that one is!
I guess it boils down to I've always been a planner. I've gotten much better about letting go, and I'm definitely a "everything happens for a reason" "I can handle wherever the chips may fall" kind of person. With the kids though, there are so many added logistics to deal with and two small people who are right now depending on basically just me. I've got to do right by them.

LexieCat

Having a beach house on the ocean might be every bit as realistic as your other "wants." You can WANT someone to be sober and reliable with all your heart. It won't do any good unless that person ALSO wants to be sober and reliable. Right now you are getting nothing but lip service.

PhoenixJ

There is no try- just do. Well that is true for me.... Mind- it took losing my family, home, life etc. BUT the point is without evidence- behavioural change and action- well I am getting that beach house before you. My gran used to say 'the road to hell is paved with good intentions' The number of times I would string along those I 'loved' (proved it so well) by saying 'I have looked up meetings and I will go tomorrow...' or 'I rang the doctor 3 times but....' (3 times would be letting it ring twice and hang up- 23 times). Stay safe and think to your future. You are not his mum. Empathy and support to you.

loonie2427

It's been hard to tell if he really does want to be in recovery. Lots of "I need to stop" and follow-through for short bursts. I'm not sure how long to hold out hope that one of these short bursts will be "it."
His m.o. now seems to be avoid work to not drink. Marital counseling tomorrow, and he just told me he's taking the day off of work. Apparently white knuckling it at home before our session, which is (not so) awesome.
I've been mentally prepping for what comes next if there's no follow through. Trying to herd my cats Thanks to all for support, advice, and empathy. It's good to have a sounding board!

Ariesagain

Sending you a hug.

Bekindalways

Hi Loonie, your AH may very well be trying to moderate his drinking. Many try this but find out it just doesn't work.

Can you get yourself to an Alanon meeting? With young kids this can be difficult!

loonie2427

I think he is trying to moderate now after relapsing after the 5 day sobriety, but he's drinking as much as often as before. So much for moderating. I told him I understand slips happen, but if it's drinking several days in a row it is no longer a slip, it's a decision.
I made it to one alanon meeting and got the big book. He saw it and flipped his ish. Just another example of me fixating on his drinking rather than focusing on fixing our relationship (i.e., fixing what's wrong with me). I haven't been back but I plan to find one during a day/time that works better.

Forward12

Even slips are decisions and don't just happen.
I think going back to alanon regularly would be a great help. There is no fixing the relationship if he's still drinking.

Smarie78

THIS ^^^^ He would tell me he was trying and doing the work but when he seemed to constantly have all this free time to see me and message me all day long and not ever EVER have plans when I asked him, I knew he wasn't trying. Because if he was he wouldn't have all the time to spend! He'd say "hey I know we normally hang out tonight but I can't miss this meeting", or "have to visit my son today let's get together tomorrow", or "got therapy thursdays so let's do it another day".. When they are in recovery and doing the work they really are DEDICATED, you just know because it simply looks like it. They don't even have time to talk about it bc their busy DOING. Unless of course, their not.

You'll know it when you see it.

Treerat66

Loonie, your AH is just playing with you.

Moderation is for 'normal' drinkers. For us, alcoholics, it is torture. If we stop or are stopped after one or two drinks the resentment against the 'withholder' of drink is very strong and corrosive.

best wishes.

FallenAngelina

Seems like a lot of us base our lives around trying to get good at gauging our loved one's sincerity and that is codependency. When the center of our emotions is our thoughts about whether our loved one is trying or not, we have a big problem. His drinking is not the problem.

I'm four days in to "no contact" with my BF, so I'm not up on any high horse of accomplishment, but I can't emphasize enough that our laser focus on them and their drinking is the problem. I don't know how a Codie can make any lasting change for him/herself without a great therapist or Al-Anon because our real problem is that we are attracted to an alcoholic and everything that goes along wth an alcoholic. Just getting rid of the alcoholic does little (in the long term) for our well being. Finding even one Al-Anon meeting that works for you can become the difference between turning your life around (not his) and simply continuing to limp along.

If our lives are based on the question of whether our loved one is trying or not, we have a big project that only we can work on - and the project is not to get good at discerning whether he is trying.

dandylion

loonie.....this may help you answer your question----
Go to the "sticky" at the top of the front page...just above the threads.
Select the one called "Classic Reading"......and pick the article called: "10 ways to know if your addict or alcoholic is full of crap".....this is a pretty good yardstick to tell where your qualifier is in readiness for recovery...or not....

Maudcat

H, loonie. Welcome. Sorry for your trouble, but glad that you found us.
A couple of things in your posts resonated: not sure how helpful counselling can be if one partner is drinking and doesn't want it brought up. Actually, kinda surprised that counselor hasn't picked up on it.
That your spouse feels that you are fixating on his drinking by going to an Al-Anon meeting is absurd. Al-Anon exists to provide support to friends and families who are troubled by a loved one's drinking.
I am sure he thinks that Al-Anon members sit around and talk smack about the drinkers in their lives--and, yeah, that does happen--but far less than you or he thinks.
It is there to give people tools to cope with the insidious disease of alcohol dependency in families.
Please don't give up on it yet. It could be a lifeline for you.
After some time with Al-Anon, you will likely be able to answer the question, "Is he really trying?" with clarity and firmness.
My opinion? He is doing what many people in his situation do: do just enough, say the right things, so that the drinking status quo can be maintained.
good luck.
Peace.

Maudcat

I just reread your first post and saw that the counsellor did pick up on the drinking and told you that counselling is ineffective when one partner is drinking.
Sorry. Missed that first time around.

tomsteve

if i stopped drinking when i needed to, i would have stopped about 20 years before i stopped.
it was when i wanted to stop that i got help and have remained sober since.