HolyQow

Hello everyone,
I just finished reading "Why does he do that?" by Lundy Bancroft.

All these years of blaming alcohol has not solved anything. I hate to admit this, it's NOT the alcohol. The alcohol is just the "green light" to give himself/herself permission to behave the way they do.

I've been on this forum for 11 years, and nothing has opened my eyes as much as this book did. My husband quit drinking almost 2 years ago, and nothing was different. After six months of a dry drunk, I gave him three choices. 1. Go to AA 2. Go to a counselor 3. Get divorced.

He chose AA and did very well. AA is a great program and I mean no disrespect to them for all they do. In my case, it's an abusive (verbally) situation that is only heightened when alcohol is involved, but always present. He is angry, critical, self-centered, and set on destroying me mentally. He lacks empathy and is very controlling.

After reading the book, I do not have any answers, as it only describes his behavior to a "T". There are minimal suggestions on what to do, and I will be reading a few more books from Mr. Bancroft.

I want to pass this book along to someone that would like to read it with the hopes that they will do the same when they are done.

First one that asks, it's yours. PM me.

HQ

LexieCat

Thanks--this is a perfect example of how alcoholism and abuse are SEPARATE issues. I think there is some abusive behavior that can disappear when an alcoholic diligently works his/her program, but when someone is acting out of the sense of entitlement that goes along with coercive control, getting that person sober will not change him/her.

maia1234

HQ,
This might be a weird question, but if he is so horrible, why do you stay?

Is he still??....." angry, critical, self-centered, and set on destroying me mentally. He lacks empathy and is very controlling. "

HolyQow

Maia,
Many many reasons, too many for this forum. Financially, I would be living in a cardboard box to name one.

I work my side of the street, not his. I do my own thing, he does his, and we get along most of the time. I don't let him get to me anymore. I speak up when his behavior is a problem to me or my children. It's not an ideal marriage, but it is what it is. I am in no danger and his cutting remarks do not phase me now. I've lived thru the worst of it, so we adjust what we are willing to put up with. He is not drinking for now, and maybe someday (soon) he will talk to a counselor. We have already discussed this recently, and he seems willing. I was under the impression that all counselors are the same, but they are not. I will take my time to find one that fits our situation.

Day to day... thanks for asking.
HQ

Coffeebean9

this is exactly what some of us do not want to understand or hear.... well put lexiecat

LeeJane

The above is exactly right.

Separate issues.

hopeful4

I so agree!

I just hope since you have children his abusive remarks and behavior don't extend to them.

You are also right, not all counselors are the same. Take the time to find the right one, and it's life changing!

honeypig

I would second hopeful's concern for the children. You, as an adult, have the power to decide to stay or go. The children are stuck, at the mercy of the adults in their lives. They are learning that this is what a relationship looks like. Are you willing to accept that you're teaching your kids to live their own lives like this when they are adults themselves?

Having grown up in an abusive household, I will say that the marks last a lifetime. Personally, my siblings and I would have gladly "lived in a cardboard box" rather than grow up as we did.

aliciagr

Thanks for sharing about the book, It might be a good read for me,.

I think the scenario you described is very common, and its what Ive been trying to say about my husband for a while. There are two issues in many cases of addiction. The first are underlying emotional, psychological, or physical concerns that often come along before the addiction ever starts. Programs like AA can be helpful to support sobriety but not the other stuff in my opinion. And I bet your husband hasnt went beyond that to a look for help on these things, because he thinks doing the program was the solution - as in hes not drinking now and doing what they say program wise, so all is well. Or worse, even points the issues back at you because he is in denial of his own problems.

In our case, my husband stopping doesnt seem to be the real challenge. Its getting into his childhood, emotional issues, and making peace inside himself. Those things are the explanation as to Why He Does That, and why he turned to substances in the first place.

So if the book can elaborate on this, Im interested in it. Thank You

LexieCat

alicia, if you're looking for something to confirm your firm belief that everything is about your husband's "emotional issues," don't bother. What Bancroft makes very clear is that the primary reasons abusers are the way they are is that it BENEFITS them. They achieve positive results from abusing and controlling their partners. It's not unresolved anger and hurt.

Which is what I've been saying all along, but you don't feel it's applicable to him.

aliciagr

Yes of course the behaviors benefit them.. but you mean her analysis is just that all the behaviors are just based on short term needs at getting what they want as in manipulation or control.

Yeah no, what I thought is that she looked deeper into what was actually the driving force behind the need, the behavior, and the perceived benefit they gain vs what they lose. awareness, and then attempted resolution of the core issue. sometimes the needs actually do stem from feeling powerless or a lack of control that was felt during childhood or adulthood based on certain factors.

It might still be a good thing to read however.

LexieCat

First off, Lundy Bancroft is a man. You can google his website, he has several videos online. He has worked directly with abusive men in batterers' intervention programs for decades. He is a respected scholar who has written resources relied on by the courts and other professionals. I've been to at least a couple of his trainings at events where I was also presenting.

I recommend that you DEFINITELY read the book, though it is diametrically opposed to your viewpoint. So read it and draw your own conclusions. It's available on Kindle, or in paperback.

aliciagr

Thanks Lexi. No, never heard of him. My therapist didnt recommend any of his writings, so he may not have though this work applied to my situation. Think Ive got enough on my plate for now, so I better not go off on another tangent right now anyway.

LexieCat

Well, as I said, if you're only interested in reading what confirms your beliefs, then it's a waste of time. If, however, you're interested in seeing whether there might be some serious danger in the offing for you and your baby-to-be, as you think about risks/benefits of staying married, it might be worth a look.

aliciagr

Good point. I would just hope the Drs we worked with would have pointed me more in this direction if they thought it was necessary. I have always tried to take in a lot, and was open with the therapist about everything that happened and our history over time, went to a support group that was suggested, met with my husbands therapist to discuss it. I think its just the direction they have pointed me in for whatever reason. Ive tried to rely on their knowledge as best I could during all this. But yes, it does fit in with future decisions. Didnt want to get off topic for the poster of the thread. ,I guess I just misinterpreted what the book was about. Im sort of thinking it implies the people who are at the focus of the book are hopeless cases in terms of behavioral recovery.

LexieCat

It only takes the position that few batterers are MOTIVATED to stop their abuse, and that, not unlike recovery from alcoholism (which really is not addressed in the book in any detail--Bancroft is not an addiction expert, he's an expert in abuse), no "treatment" will be effective unless the individual is very committed and willing to change deeply-ingrained viewpoints and attitudes.

Most abusers do not suffer from mental illness, and most are not addicts. Some are, and the extent to which their abusive behavior is attributable to either is debatable. Most men whose abusive behavior is attributable to mental illness are hostile, suspicious, prone to fighting with EVERYONE, not just the partner. Most abusers, by contrast, are not "out of control"--if a police officer shows up they will become calm and reasonable. We see it all the time. It's exclusive to situations where they are controlling/manipulating the partner. They also tend to use the children, if any, as pawns in their control.

Your husband's therapists, I'd venture to guess, are not experts in abusive behavior, intimate partner violence, coercive control. They are probably doing what the average therapists do, try to relieve their client's emotional suffering. Have you disclosed to them the abuse you experienced at his hands? Even if you did, unless they are trained in intimate partner violence, they might have little expertise in that area and just assume it's emotional issues.

red3215

That book is fantastic. It was required reading for the counselors at the women's shelter I stayed at five years ago. It changed my pattern with abusive men and I recognize abusive people and manipulators a lot more now.
Also his book Should I Stay or Go? was excellent. It helped me with myself and dysfunctions of my own personality.

He's also on youtube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmbrAWDft0s

aliciagr

No I didnt seek out one that specialized in Domestic Violence, but I did see one that had a PhD in Psychology, and I did go through all of the details, and all of our history. She gave me her perspective, referred me to various things like the DV Support Group that I wen to for a while. We did feedback from my experiences there. I feel like she had enough knowledge, or would have referred me if she had concerns it was out of her realm.. otherwise I feel it would be incompetence.

Why are you so certain that my husband fits into the pattern of Abusive Spouse, Controlling, etc. that you perceive? There is no history of emotional or physical abuse except for two accounts of sexual abuse , that played out in a very specific way, and occurred after months of ongoing cocaine use and alcohol abuse. Im not downplaying it at all, but Im not sure its enough to classify his whole personality type and label him with specific characteristics of serial abusers, wife beaters.

You make me feel sort of like you think he has been this monster hiding his true abusive self .. finally showed himself by the isolated encounters... was 100% unrelated to his drug use ... and now has hidden again... but is certain to come back out because that was his true self.

Or that Im in denial and he has been emotionally abusing me, and physically assaulting me for years and I cant admit it - possibly because he is so good at controlling me.

LexieCat

I'm NOT sure about your husband. Never said I was. What concerns me is that it feels to me like you don't want to consider certain unpleasant possibilities. Rape is a serious violation of the victim 's personal integrity. It's not something that happens accidentally. All I can say is that if it were I making serious decisions about my personal safety, I'd want to learn all that I could about whether I could trust my partner not to be at risk of harming me again. But you are telling me you have too many other things to think about than to consider the insights of a highly respected professional--and I'm talking about Bancroft, not me.

Look, it's up to you, as it always has been. I just think the more good information one has, the better. Knowledge is power.

aliciagr

Lexi, I have spent months doing therapy, and marriage counseling. I have been addressing all of these things and not ruling anything out but over time yes Ive drawn some conclusions... plus, I had never heard of this man before today. So far I cant even find his credentials specifically his education.

Im going to end here I think.