Athiests in AA
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Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 5
Athiests in AA
Originally Posted by MarkTwain 
I am an atheist, have been since I was a teen. I took to AA and loved it with all my heart. My sponsor and several of my AA friends were atheists and we all agree AA saved our lives.....or more accurately, we saved our lives by working the AA program.
There are, fortunately, plenty of other recovery programs that work.
There are, fortunately, plenty of other recovery programs that work.
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Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 216
Originally Posted by sobervegan72
MarkTwain - how do you approach the higher power aspect of AA as an atheist? I'm really struggling with that part of the program.
Let's ask Dee what she thinks we should do.
Dee?
Last edited by MarkTwain; 04-18-2017 at 10:28 AM. Reason: my spelling is hideous some times!!!!
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Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Chester, UK
Posts: 684
I think the AA view is compatible with atheism because it asks only that you reach out to a higher power, which need only be whatever you find supports you, e.g the AA group itself, or this forum here.
Conceivably it may even be a conception of a greater, more integrated self but I suspect it would probably be better if the higher power involved a group of people for reality checks!
Conceivably it may even be a conception of a greater, more integrated self but I suspect it would probably be better if the higher power involved a group of people for reality checks!
All is Change
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,284
I'm an a-theist theologian who believes in a value in believing in a higher power. Because, to me, this higher power has to be omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent for me to put my trust in it it has to be god or the person god, jesus.
There is a definit benefit from choosing to believe. Anyone can try this. There are clearly defined precepts of right living and thinking that are universally acceptable, beneficial and applicable. Anyone can try these. Even a-theists.
I may not believe in your god. I believe in god as I understand god to be. If you ask me if I believe in god I'll ask you to define god so I can tell you whether or not I believe in your definition. Quite likely I'll say no.
There is a definit benefit from choosing to believe. Anyone can try this. There are clearly defined precepts of right living and thinking that are universally acceptable, beneficial and applicable. Anyone can try these. Even a-theists.
I may not believe in your god. I believe in god as I understand god to be. If you ask me if I believe in god I'll ask you to define god so I can tell you whether or not I believe in your definition. Quite likely I'll say no.
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Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: CA
Posts: 1,060
Some of the most powerful messages I've heard in the rooms of AA have come from atheist shares. I know I have a HP and I can't describe it/her/him. I don't think its one of the conventional religious gods. I imagine mine to be more of an energy of positive thinking/action. I will stop there since I can't truly articulate it.
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Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 216
First, I've been an atheist for almost fifty years. I had a wonderful Catholic upbringing which I cherish and value, but I'm firm in my non-belief. There is no God. However there is a chance I could be wrong. (Damn!) No matter what else there is to say or not say about God, I am very very sure of one thing: I am not God.
Second, I've seen belief in religion and belief in God work wonders for people all around me, including in AA. I would never in a million years say or do anything to disrespect the value of religion and God. (Heck, personally I think Pope Francis is a great voice for this world. Ratzinger was a disaster, but Francis is the best thing since John XXIII.)
When I attend an AA meeting, I say the Serenity Prayer and the Our Father along with everyone else because I believe in honoring the traditions, not in making some political or religious point where it doesn't belong.
When I was given my first Step Book and started reading it, I started editing it in blue ink to eliminate the God references and put in my own words. I got FOUR PAGES into this endeavor and stopped and asked myself,
"Is it more important for you to correct Alcoholics Anonymous in it's God slant, or is it more important for you to stay away from a drink?"
I decided the Step Book was just fine the way it was written.
How to deal with the God stuff in AA? The first and most important key to AA is acceptance. Accepting that I am powerless over alcohol. You don't need a God for that. You need to get Licked! (as the original first step read).
Then, you surrender your know-it-all will and do what you're told to do. Thirty meetings in thirty days, 60 meetings in 60 days, 90 meetings in 90 days, then you go for a year every day and see how you feel about it then.
I went to TWO meetings on Saturdays, one at a church in the morning and one in a hospital gym at night, because I knew there might be a day when life got in the way and I wanted insurance.
I was told to go to meetings early and stay afterward. I made friends, an extraordinarily painful process because I was not yet humble enough to make friends. But I did. Catholics and non-Catholics, Protestants and Moslems, Jews and people who could care less one way or another.
Get a sponsor. I picked an atheist.
As I said, the second most important thing in alcoholism, and AA has this dead right, is I must surrender my will and willpower and stubbornness and my unwillingness to LISTEN.
Now here's the thing: Surrender can be an intransitive verb, it need not have an object like a higher power, or the group, or God, or Vishnu, or whatever. I simply accepted my powerlessness and surrendered my will.
As I said, I love AA. I owe AA my life. I loved the people in AA who showed me unlimited patience and kindness and who gave my life a structure when I most desperately needed it.
Finally, I will tell this story once again. My Tuesday night group was responsible for an 11th Step (12th Step? I forget now) meeting in the city detox. There was a very ardent young man there who spoke quite passionately about how all the "God stuff" in AA was such a complete turn-off and how he wasn't interested in a bunch of Christianity and God shoved down his throat, and so on and so on.
Well, I looked to my left and my sponsor (many many years sober at the time) and he smiled. I looked to my right and there were two of my best AA friends whom I knew to be Atheists, both of them with years of good healthy sobriety, and they just sort of smiled and shrugged their shoulders! There were five of us in the group and four of us had decades of success in AA under our belts. (Not me, I was like a year or so, something like that.) There is room in AA for everyone.
Sorry to be so long-winded. I hope some of this makes at least some sense to someone.
Second, I've seen belief in religion and belief in God work wonders for people all around me, including in AA. I would never in a million years say or do anything to disrespect the value of religion and God. (Heck, personally I think Pope Francis is a great voice for this world. Ratzinger was a disaster, but Francis is the best thing since John XXIII.)
When I attend an AA meeting, I say the Serenity Prayer and the Our Father along with everyone else because I believe in honoring the traditions, not in making some political or religious point where it doesn't belong.
When I was given my first Step Book and started reading it, I started editing it in blue ink to eliminate the God references and put in my own words. I got FOUR PAGES into this endeavor and stopped and asked myself,
"Is it more important for you to correct Alcoholics Anonymous in it's God slant, or is it more important for you to stay away from a drink?"
I decided the Step Book was just fine the way it was written.
How to deal with the God stuff in AA? The first and most important key to AA is acceptance. Accepting that I am powerless over alcohol. You don't need a God for that. You need to get Licked! (as the original first step read).
Then, you surrender your know-it-all will and do what you're told to do. Thirty meetings in thirty days, 60 meetings in 60 days, 90 meetings in 90 days, then you go for a year every day and see how you feel about it then.
I went to TWO meetings on Saturdays, one at a church in the morning and one in a hospital gym at night, because I knew there might be a day when life got in the way and I wanted insurance.
I was told to go to meetings early and stay afterward. I made friends, an extraordinarily painful process because I was not yet humble enough to make friends. But I did. Catholics and non-Catholics, Protestants and Moslems, Jews and people who could care less one way or another.
Get a sponsor. I picked an atheist.
As I said, the second most important thing in alcoholism, and AA has this dead right, is I must surrender my will and willpower and stubbornness and my unwillingness to LISTEN.
Now here's the thing: Surrender can be an intransitive verb, it need not have an object like a higher power, or the group, or God, or Vishnu, or whatever. I simply accepted my powerlessness and surrendered my will.
As I said, I love AA. I owe AA my life. I loved the people in AA who showed me unlimited patience and kindness and who gave my life a structure when I most desperately needed it.
Finally, I will tell this story once again. My Tuesday night group was responsible for an 11th Step (12th Step? I forget now) meeting in the city detox. There was a very ardent young man there who spoke quite passionately about how all the "God stuff" in AA was such a complete turn-off and how he wasn't interested in a bunch of Christianity and God shoved down his throat, and so on and so on.
Well, I looked to my left and my sponsor (many many years sober at the time) and he smiled. I looked to my right and there were two of my best AA friends whom I knew to be Atheists, both of them with years of good healthy sobriety, and they just sort of smiled and shrugged their shoulders! There were five of us in the group and four of us had decades of success in AA under our belts. (Not me, I was like a year or so, something like that.) There is room in AA for everyone.
Sorry to be so long-winded. I hope some of this makes at least some sense to someone.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 5
Thank you!
Thanks for the input everyone. I've been in and out of the rooms for almost two years now, and landing on a higher power has been very difficult for me. I am thrilled to hear that there are many successful atheists in the program.😊
Trudgin
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 6,348
If not for Burwell AA might never have gained much needed traction.
"One's religious affiliation, or lack of it; one's philosophical preferences, or none; one's theistic, or agnostic, or atheistic, or pantheistic, or virtually any relatively held notion or concept of a power greater than ourselves, could bare no relevance on one's membership in the Fellowship of the Spirit, thanks to Jim Burwell."
A.A. History - Jimmy B. - The Aetheist - After 19 Years
"One's religious affiliation, or lack of it; one's philosophical preferences, or none; one's theistic, or agnostic, or atheistic, or pantheistic, or virtually any relatively held notion or concept of a power greater than ourselves, could bare no relevance on one's membership in the Fellowship of the Spirit, thanks to Jim Burwell."
A.A. History - Jimmy B. - The Aetheist - After 19 Years
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Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 292
If anyone is into listening to podcasts, the "AA Beyond Belief" series of podcasts are good and deal with this very issue. They interview atheists/agnostics who have gotten sober, and are still involved, with AA, and how they have dealt with this potential conflict and remain involved with the fellowship.
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