Willadoit

Just starting out with AVRT. Last night I had a massive attack of self pity. Which I countered with "Well, it's your own fault, you got yourself into this mess" sort of thoughts.
Then I realised the self pity was the AV.
What I'm wondering is, was the counter "You got yourself into this mess" argument, also the AV? Because, that sort of thinking can lead to, ohh..I hate myself, I'm a mess, I'm useless" can't it?

I wouldn't have engaged in the self pity- self argument if I had realised it was the AV. But is it possible, that the AV, if you do engage it, will take both sides of the argument to IT's advantage?

Hope I make sense.

Fusion

Yes! The 'real you' will realise that although you may have got yourself in a mess (as I did) I'd since made a Big Plan, had stopped drinking and fully meant to start clearing the life-mess up.

So at the point where you said 'you got yourself into this mess' (which the AV loves to use and then start an emotional pity party); if the next thought wasn't rational such as 'but that's OK because I've stopped drinking forever and I'm clearing the wreckage up' (as the real rational you would say and thereby not beat yourself up). Instead the AV will counter the original thought, with suchlike as 'I hate myself, I'm useless and on and on, until ITs real desire thought appears. at the end of the tirade.....so 'I might as well drink' (because I'll never sort things out, I'm hopeless, a waste of space etc.)

It's all pure AV. Please keep on reading and learning. You recognition will become second nature and soon take only a second to recognise that the thought is the AV, not you, and thereby ignore and dismiss IT.

dwtbd

AVRT produces a laser like focus , a ruthless logic.
AV is any thought of future consumption or doubt of the ability to remain abstinent.
The Beast will use the AV to pinpoint feelings and emotions ( shame, guilt, sadness, happiness ect ) as 'reasons' that drinking either is or could be a future option.
AVRT 's focus is to shut down any thought of drinking or doubt in our ability to be able to shut down, not act on those thoughts impulses.
"ITs advantage" is the AV claiming the Beast has any real power , either right now or in the future by planting the idea that our emotions will have a corrosive effect on our resolve. A powerful and good trick, but like all ITs other machinations , a lie.
"I will never drink again, and I will never change my mind" is the same as " I will never now drink, no matter what" , it is possible to not put a drink to your lips , right now this second , yeah? AV is the idea that that can't always hold true, that there is some conceivable Now in the future that those conditions will not be met.
Set your confidence in always having the ability to recognize and dismiss the AV at 100 % , anything else is AV, you got this, rootin for ya

Willadoit

Thanks Tatsy, that's exactly what was happening! It was a relief when I stopped myself when I realised what was happening. There isn't any chance I would have drank, as from even the small amount I do know, I know the AV offers only one solution to everything!

Thanks too dwtbd, yes "IT's advantage" suggests that I think it's a power struggle, when it's not, I have ALL the advantage ALL of the time.
And yes, it's always possible not to put a drink to my lips now

Yous have cleared up what was bothering me Thank you again

dwtbd

It is always Now , we live through all the Nows that are , add let them add themselves up

Nonsensical

I asked a lot of similar questions a few years ago. It seemed really important at the time to be able to classify every thought as AV or ME.

A smart guy who calls himself freshstart57 told me my task was to recognize my AV, not to be entertained by it.

He was right. Obsessing over my AV wasn't much better than obsessing over alcohol.

RR provides a framework for not drinking.
Having a life took additional effort.

Algorithm

Self-pity is not in and of itself, Addictive Voice, but the Beast can use self-pity to create a pathway to the bottle. The Beast is revisionistic, and it always tries to change the motivation for drinking, so that the real purpose remains concealed.

It will try and turn self-pity into what we term purposeful suffering in AVRT. Suffering with the purpose of justifying, or excusing, a drink. Of course, feeding the Beast its precious stuff for so long caused much of the suffering, or at least made it much worse.

Regardless, even if that were not the case, the key to AVRT is the separation. It, and not you, wants to drink. Even if the Beast were not responsible for present suffering, it would still use the same argument, but why exactly should the Beast have a personal party just because you are suffering?

Purposeful suffering is a common Beast tactic, and this is how to see through it. The Beast does not really care if you suffer, as long as IT gets to have a personal party. If this leads to more suffering for you, IT will just try to use that new suffering purposefully, to justify yet another party for itself.

The Beast may also try and attack your character, to convince you that you are a congenitally defective loser on account of having so many problems, some of which IT helped bring about, so that it can transform into 'Dr. Beast' and suggest some good 'medicine' for those character defects.

Simply recognize the Beast's revisionistic nature, and never allow the Beast to change the motivation for ITs personal parties.

Willadoit

Nonsensical, yes, I have got a bit (lot) of an obsessive nature. Sometimes it works in my favour, sometimes not. I'm not going to start obsessing over thoughts of me and IT though, although I must admit, I may have been going down that path!
I know not drinking is just the foundations to build a life on, that getting rid of the drink, is not going to magically transform the cruddy life drinking has left me with. Thank you for the advice

Willadoit

Purposeful suffering Algorithm, interesting, I never heard that phrase before.
Thats where I was thinking the self-pity would lead. Self pity, then self blame, then self hatred, then an excuse to drink and feel better.
I know it seems obvious to everyone else, but I have JUST realised, all the "reasons" I had for drinking, drink doesn't work for!
The separation me from IT I find easy enough, as in all the years I have asked myself "Why, after all this misery, do you still want to drink?" And part of me really didn't want to drink. So I find it easy enough to think IT, this rogue drive wants drink, but I, who I think of as ME doesn't, it's ruined my life.

"Simply recognize the Beast's revisionistic nature, and never allow the Beast to change the motivation for ITs personal parties. "
Yes
Thanks Alogorithm

I'm sorry if I seem a bit dim with all of this. I used to have a really sharp fast mind, but the last 6 months of the 1 1/2 pints to 3 pints of vodka a day benders, seem to have taken it's toll

Algorithm

There may be some unrecognized, implicit AV in this 'drink doesn't work' idea. The Beast is trying to manufacture a contingency for abstaining, as if the only reason to abstain is because drink doesn't work for certain problems.

It is a variation of the 'drink doesn't feel good' line of thinking, and it is just another loophole, because the Beast could then argue that there is some problem out there you haven't run into yet for which drink might work.

Consider the following questions:

What if drinking did work for some problem?

Would it then be OK for you to drink?

Willadoit

Hmm, good point.
I can't think of anything drinking would work for, after being at it so long, and having used every excuse in the book to drink, but I see what you mean.
I could say No I still wouldn't drink because it is ruining my life, my health and my mind..but then you would say, well what if it wasn't doing those things?
I will say no, I wouldn't drink even if it could solve a problem I had, because I look on drink as a trap now and I don't want to go there under any circumstance.

Ariesagain

If you suspect your AV is yapping at you, follow its "logic" to the end, in your head. If the concluding thought is, "so you might as well drink," it's your addiction talking.

They can be creative little buggers, but they're all complete liars.

Willadoit

Yes, as creative as me, as sly as me, as emotional as me, as obsessive as me, as knowledgeable as me and using all this, as if ITs life depended on it, which it does.

dwtbd

Dim, my butt

Willadoit

But dwtbd, you didn't know me when I used to have the highest IQ in England! (Did I mention in my last post, as much as a fibber as me haha)