cejay

I spent almost 2 years of sobriety in AA. Loved it, but never could get on to the God thing. I liked the fellowship. I liked connecting with other men, and other sober people.

As I progressed, I lost my higher power. I hate calling myself an alcoholic. I decided I didn't have a problem, drank again for a few months. Nothing huge happened, I (obviously) didn't die. I don't drink as much as many folks out there but I drink more than is healthy, for sure.

I don't want to drink anymore, I miss the fellowship and the sober company.

Still, I don't believe in magic sky Gods that fix things in me because I now align with them.

I want to go back to AA, but am having a hard time figuring out how to interpret the whole HP thing. I've read some agnostic steps and they sound OK.

I would consider myself somewhat spiritual, I identify with Taoism an Buddhism.

Is there anyone out there like me, and if so, what's your Higher Power? How do you interpret the God talk?

Thanks,

CJ.

Fly N Buy

HP = The Group works for many. Certainly the group is a power greater than myself.......

NewRomanMan

I met lots of ppl in treatment that would use various non God concepts for a HP cuz they felt the same way. Didn't agree with the God thing. Most of them found alternatives they employed: Energy, the Universe, Nature, conscience, AA as a group, etc.
Don't let the God thing hang you up. Find something that resonates with you and use it. =)

totfit

I just consider myself a part of the Universe. Certainly, the power of the Universe is greater than myself no doubt, but on the other side of the coin I am part of that power. If I am seeking power though, I call it my "higher self". I like a phrase by Huston Smith, "We all carry with in us supreme strength, fullness of wisdom, and unquenchable joy. It cannot be thwarted and can never be destroyed, but it is buried deep which makes life a problem". As a disclaimer, this might not be word for word. All of that being said, I am not an AA person. I have been at one time in my life and gone to many hundreds of meeting likely. For me drinking just does not any longer make sense. Still I look to my higher self as a source of power or "higher power" and I look at the wonder of the Universe as the ultimate power of which I am not only connected, but I am part of it and it a part of me.

MicroMacro

Refuge recovery is Buddhist oriented. SMART recovery is something you might look at. I flit in and out of AA, but only because I don't consider myself an AA thumper. I'm a "whatever works best for the individual" thumper. And I really like Taoism.

A long long time ago - shortly after a neighbor of mine invented the wheel, I set out to find God. I asked anyone who would give me the time of day what they thought about God. I read books. I became a Religious Studies major in college. I interviewed my family (we don't discuss God and everyone is not on the same page). I interviewed friends. And about 8 months later it finally occurred to me to go to the source - so I did one summer night in Tulsa, Oklahoma.

That night I woke up and remembered a dream I'd just had that answered the question "Are you there God? it's me, Jennifer." Except, I wasn't sweet when I asked. I was quite confrontational with God because after 8 months - I was N O W H E R E with all of it, and if God existed then IT KNEW I been on the hunt for it, yet said nothing and didn't bother to materialize for me and solve all my drama. and stress.

The dream resolved my question and my hunt ended that night.

I call God God because it's too massive to have a name, but it has to be called something. A name contains something and God is bigger than anything I can mentally grasp. All I know is that there is something inside me and 'out there' - in you and her and them - that is much bigger than anything I can imagine.

It created the universe and it's insanely big out there.

Keep asking and you'll find what you're looking for.

cejay

Thanks all. This helps. I then still struggle with Step 3 but found another interpretation of the steps that makes it compatible. These are the steps I'm digg'ing lately: An Atheists 12 Steps for people put off by the god references in AA

Unfortunately, I have the same problem with SMART and the other recovery programs, they just aren't widely available. In our town the only open SMART meetings are during the day. I also really liked the fellowship in AA and want to return to it. As a frequent traveller AA's availability is another strong selling point.

At the moment I'm also contemplating starting an Agnostic AA meeting in my town. There is one but it's on the wrong end of town at a bad time for me.

My understanding is that Agnostic AA meetings are growing quickly right now.

CJ.

paulmh

Hullo

I think by nature I'm a sceptic, so my higher power became simply "I don't know". I undertook my step work with that concept really at the front of my mind all the time. It wasn't a particularly reflective period of my life, I just had to "have faith" that I there was the tiniest chance I could get well from the life I was living. So "I don't know" allowed me to do the recovery work, and to thankfully have the experiences and then the benefits of doing just that.

The "God" steps I experienced like this

Came to believe that a power greater than myself could restore me to sanity - I suppose I was able to accept that it was possible that I could get well even if I didn't know what that meant. I became prepared to step into the darkness of "I don't know"

Handed my will and my life over to the care of God as I understood him - well, I didn't understand anything and had stopped trying, so that actually worked out really well, since I was just left with the psychological practice of handing my will and my life over. This psychological act, repeated thousands of times, has had immense personal benefits I believe, including ridding me of the fear that accompanies chronic self-obsession.

Admitted to God, ourselves and another human being the exact nature of our wrongs - again, its easy to admit my wrongs to "I don't know". The rest of the step I did as its written. And it brings its benefits.

Were entirely ready for Him to remove these defects - if I could be changed, I was prepared for that to happen. I don't know if God brought it about. I don't need to.

Humbly asked Him to remove these defects - I can ask, and I can ask humbly, because I don't know. Probably a bit easier without the personal pronoun and the reference to God. But if I'm being asked to ask humbly, I can do without the intellectualism about whether or not He exists.

Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out - Having learned the power of "I don't know" - as opposed to the up my own arse deluded self-certainty of my illness previously - it's good to have become teachable. From sustaining the delusion that I knew everything I was, like Socrates, released to that wonderfully undeluded place of knowing nothing. Like Bill W explains, we take stock so that we can get rid of the stuff that's not serving us, and make room for new and better stock which can help us to live better.

My first degree was in philosophy. When I was studying I was also drinking, wildly. I cultivated some sort of semi-conscious idea that once I understood everything I would no longer have a need to drink. I maintained that delusion until I was 39, when I gave it up for the reality that I needed to drink because I was an alcoholic, that booze would always give me something I couldn't get anywhere else, and that the circle that booze squared for me was the dissonance between how my mind thought reality should be, and how it actually was.

Practicing the 12 steps doesn't require understanding going in. It requires a willingness to be changed by the process. Wherever you do your AA I hope you see enough role models that help you see that risk is one worth taking

Incontrol15

I love the suggestion of higher power = group.

I also wanted to share that you check out SMART. I am super impressed with it. Their philosophy is more logical, for me anyway. And much easier to go "all in"

Funny story...
My 1st meeting, the moderator explained that it's non secular and they do not start or end with a prayer. To which, this women proclaimed "Oh... Good.. Praise Jesus!"

Was hard not to LOL.

Good fellowship

PhoenixJ

Me

mfanch

I am a non-theist in AA. I have a higher power I call "not me". Right-sizing my ego and being willing to work the steps of AA have set me free. I don't have to believe in the steps for them to work for me.

:-)

JeremyKS1

Hi CJ,

When I first started my step work, it was impressed upon me that I didn't need to have an HP to start out, just the willingness to believe one could help me. Even today, after having done the steps and sponsoring people, I don't have some sort of specific HP in mind, but I do believe that putting my faith in one works for me. I don't believe in any deities, nor do I feel any particular need to believe in any, but I do believe that there is a lot in life that is out of my control and acting out of faith (in a secular sense) is generally a good strategy. So, I guess I could say my HP is Life or something like that, but generally, I just don't give it a name.

But I also know people who have used the concept of Buddha Dharma or the Tao itself as their HP and that seems to work. I've also heard of some Agnostic/Atheists using the concept of a Higher Self or Better Self. Sounds all right to me.

Ananda

hi,

I attend AA for mostly social reasons, but am also looking at how I utilize the 12 step concepts. I attend an out of town We Agnostics AA meeting a couple of hours away twice a month. That has been somewhat helpful.

Basically, I say I am agnostic because I don't really believe in God as I believe that word to be defined, but I don't really know and won't until I die.

That said, I have experienced something that I cannot put in words. I often find that to be equivalent to what people mean when they say "god". I also know that I am trying to turn my will and life over to a spiritual path that I am pursuing ... trying to implement it in my life.

I am a Buddhist (though not a very good one), and there are many ways to work the steps using the foundation of Buddhist practice. I don't try to be consistent and try not to let the words get in the way of understanding.

So far it seems to be making AA an available tool for staying sober.

awuh1

Ananda, I could not agree more. It is important not to let the words get in the way. Here is a quote from an early AA pamphlet. Dr Bob was the editor of the group putting out this pamphlet (and quite possibly the author of the quote below".

“Consider the eight-part program laid down in Buddhism: Right view, right aim, right speech, right action, right living, right effort, right mindedness and right contemplation. The Buddhist philosophy, as exemplified by these eight points, could be literally adopted by AA as a substitute for or addition to the Twelve Steps. Generosity, universal love and welfare of others rather than considerations of self are basic to Buddhism.”