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5th Step: I am in the process of doing this..

Old 02-21-2017, 07:56 AM
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Question 5th Step: I am in the process of doing this..

I don't want to talk about everything. There are some things in the sexuality area that I do not want to talk about.


I fully believe in my heterosexuality (as a man, I've always been attracted to women, and sexually attracted to women since puberty) but people have always viewed me or accused me of being homosexual. I hate it and I hate society for it. I truly have deep seeded HATE for society because of this, I believe.


It makes me angry, scared, upset, etc in many ways and has hurt me tremendously...but I don't want to talk about it. Not with this sponsor who is going to 5th step me, nor anyone else for that matter but I feel like I have to tell someone how much it has hurt me and hurts me every day, till this day.


I don't know how to proceed about it.
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Old 02-21-2017, 08:01 AM
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I've done some men's work over the years.

It is quite remarkable how many men are carrying around pain, confusion, trauma related to sexual experiences, sexual shame, sexual perspectives and opinions that eat away at them.

What I can share with you is that without exception what I have seen in men who are finally able (often not until their 50's or 60's) to unburden themselves of these things by sharing them in supportive environments is RELIEF. Carrying the weight in solitude and self-directed shame is destructive.

Not knowing the nature of what it is you carry - I can only share that I'm confident you will find that you are not alone by any means. And sexual experiences, traumas, even desires that don't 'fit the mold' of typical hetero / homo definitions don't MAKE you anything other than human.

I hope you'll find a safe, comfortable environment to share in at some point. Step 5 can be done - I believe - in many ways. Maybe you should seek a qualified therapist or group therapy setting to address this particular part of your step work. Sponsors are great - but we should always remember that sponsors are not counselors, therapists or qualified to appropriately deal with some of what we may need to work through.

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Old 02-21-2017, 08:03 AM
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Have you read the Big Book (pgs. 72-75) and the 12 & 12 about the 5th step? It's very clear you can do it with anyone. Many people in AA will tell you otherwise.

I had this happen to me last year. A sponsor was pressuring me to do it with him. I ended up not doing it with him. I'm no expert, but my only suggestion is finding someone you're comfortable with.
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Old 02-21-2017, 08:06 AM
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Will it be a problem if I don't tell anyone/someone?


I just started seeing a therapist the last few weeks. I'm also a Christian so I know a few respected senior members who I think I would trust with this disgust I'm carrying around with me. I know I hate myself as much as I hate most of the world for this insanity I carry around.
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Old 02-21-2017, 08:11 AM
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good on ya for getting this far!
the 5th step doesn't have to be done with a sponsor. theres a lil sumthing in the bb about that.
how to proceed...hmmm... welp, id suggest praying for guidance on it.
i strongly suggest,though, doing a 5th with someone that understands and may even be able to point out character defects that weren't caught.

but think about this:
you opened up on a forum that God only knows how many people will read it.
so why fear sharing your 5th with 1 person?

im sorry to read your hate for society, but can understand. i had things said and done to me that had me hating the world. when i got sober, my sponsor pointed out i was hating the world because of a few sick people.
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Old 02-21-2017, 08:12 AM
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In my view, and in my experience....

Keeping that sort of emotion to yourself is a fantastic way to keep it alive.

Letting it out, letting it be seen, heard, felt and given space to be acknowledged is how you heal.

The way you're talking - (this is just my opinion) - it sounds like something you really need qualified therapeutic help with.
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Old 02-22-2017, 09:12 AM
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Originally Posted by FreeOwl View Post
I've done some men's work over the years.

It is quite remarkable how many men are carrying around pain, confusion, trauma related to sexual experiences, sexual shame, sexual perspectives and opinions that eat away at them.

What I can share with you is that without exception what I have seen in men who are finally able (often not until their 50's or 60's) to unburden themselves of these things by sharing them in supportive environments is RELIEF. Carrying the weight in solitude and self-directed shame is destructive.

Not knowing the nature of what it is you carry - I can only share that I'm confident you will find that you are not alone by any means. And sexual experiences, traumas, even desires that don't 'fit the mold' of typical hetero / homo definitions don't MAKE you anything other than human.

I hope you'll find a safe, comfortable environment to share in at some point. Step 5 can be done - I believe - in many ways. Maybe you should seek a qualified therapist or group therapy setting to address this particular part of your step work. Sponsors are great - but we should always remember that sponsors are not counselors, therapists or qualified to appropriately deal with some of what we may need to work through.

What kind of things do I need to talk about? All of it? Questions I have about my own sexuality? Do I need to talk about that?


The way I've felt most people view me, even though I feel it is contrary to the way I feel I am, and the way I view me?
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Old 02-22-2017, 09:20 AM
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I think you should take this issue to your therapist.
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Old 02-22-2017, 09:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Amnesiac View Post
What kind of things do I need to talk about? All of it? Questions I have about my own sexuality? Do I need to talk about that?


The way I've felt most people view me, even though I feel it is contrary to the way I feel I am, and the way I view me?
good questions! should you talk about everything? welp, i think a question to ask youself is
how free do i want to be?

heres a lil of what the bb says, and for very good reason:

We must be entirely honest with somebody if we expect to live long or happily in this world. Rightly and naturally, we think well before we choose the person or persons with whom to take this intimate and confidential step.

we are engaged upon a life-and-death errand.


We pocket our pride and go to it, illuminating every twist of character, every dark cranny of the past.

now for the 5th step promises

Once we have taken this step, withholding nothing, we are delighted. We can look the world in the eye. We can be alone at perfect peace and ease. Our fears fall from us. We begin to feel the nearness of our Creator. We may have had certain spiritual beliefs, but now we begin to have a spiritual experience. The feeling that the drink problem has disappeared will often come strongly. We feel we are on the Broad Highway, walking hand in hand with the Spirit of the Universe.

on to who we should share 5th step with

Rightly and naturally, we think well before we choose the person or persons with whom to take this intimate and confidential step. Those of us belonging to a religious denomination which requires confession must, and of course, will want to go to the properly appointed authority whose duty it is to receive it. Though we have no religious connection, we may still do well to talk with someone ordained by an established religion. We often find such a person quick to see and understand our problem. Of course, we sometimes encounter people who do not understand alcoholics.


there are promises for every step.
there are also promises through the bb that tells us what could happen by not working the steps.
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Old 02-22-2017, 10:27 AM
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To be honest, this sounds more like something for your resentment inventory than relationships / sex inventory. The questions about your sexuality may be best dealt with by speaking to someone qualified to advise. It sounds to me like the resentment that you're carrying around about other people regarding this issue is the bit that is causing you grief to be honest.

I think the things I got most relief over when doing my step 5, were the very things I had most fear around. I now understand that fear is not Godly. It never leads to good, or loving acts. For me, it was (and often still is) fear of one thing or another that keeps humility at some distance from my reach. And it is through humility that we can feel closest to God.

Sometimes people do have some things that they choose to disclose to someone other than their sponsor. Why not pray on it. Usually when I pray to God to send me the dummies guide to His Will on something he obliges one way or another (whether I like it or not lol).

It is probably worth reposting this question on the 12-step area as well...

Alcoholism-12 Step Support - SoberRecovery : Alcoholism Drug Addiction Help and Information
Step 5 - SoberRecovery : Alcoholism Drug Addiction Help and Information

And also reading / rereading step 4 and 5 in the AA book '12 Steps and 12 Traditions ' (may even be free to read or download online.)

Also, there are some great speaker recordings on step 4 and 5. I found them very useful when steeling myself to do mine. My personal favourites were Sandy Beach, Earl Hightower, Clancy, and Charlie C...

AA Step 4 Speaker Tapes | RecoveryAudio.org
http://www.recoveryaudio.org/step-5-speaker-tapes


Just out of interest, have you actually written this stuff down yet? For your eyes? I only ask because some of the things I struggled most with I had not been able to voice to a counsellor. I just could NOT get the words past my lips. Shortly after my final counselling session was when I listened and HEARD 'How it Works' properly for the first time and got my sponsor. I also found it incredibly difficult to think through certain things and very painful to write them down, even just for my own eyes. Praying helped. As did the speaker recordings. When it came to actually doing step 5 I was petrified (as most people are), but my sponsor was far less phased by my truths than I had been. And in fact, despite her being quite a senior lady now, she was able to share back similar experiences of her own.

The point of step 4 and 5 are NOT to judge. They just help us to recognise our character defects and the impact that they have on our life, our decisions, and our relationships. It is through this self-knowledge that we can start to change and grow.

If you have not yet chanced upon Nadia Bolz-Weber's book Accidental Saints, I would recommend it to you. She is a 12-stepping alcoholic in recovery and (now) a priest. I found her book to be a great comfort when dealing with what seemed like the enormity of my sins and flaws. I think Lent it quite a beautiful time to be doing your step 5. What better way to show gratitude for Jesus Christ willingly dying for our sins, and for God's amazing love and grace.

And you know, God does not make mistakes. Whatever the nature of your sexuality, he created you, and loves you as you are. Your job is to learn to do the same, and that is something that the 12-step process is great at teaching us, step by step.

Wishing you all the best for your sobriety and recovery. BB
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Old 02-24-2017, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Amnesiac View Post
What kind of things do I need to talk about? All of it? Questions I have about my own sexuality? Do I need to talk about that?


The way I've felt most people view me, even though I feel it is contrary to the way I feel I am, and the way I view me?
A good therapist can help you with that question.

In my experience, anything that secretly, inwardly causes us confusion, fear, shame, anxiety, uncertainty, anger, sorrow.... anything that weighs on us ABOUT us is rich ground to work through in healing, growing and becoming more comfortable, grateful, joyful human beings.
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Old 02-24-2017, 03:54 PM
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For the things you wish not to share with your Sponsor call a local church and share them with a Pastor who you don't know. Most all Pastors have heard of and have a basic understanding of the 5th Step. My Pastor would be available -- if needed send me a PM.

No problem,
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Old 02-24-2017, 05:25 PM
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I am of the belief we are only as sick as our secrets. The forth and fifth steps are about getting rid of the baggage we have been carrying around for our whole lives.

There is a lot of good advice on who you should do it with. I can say that opening up to another was an incredibly freeing experience.
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Old 02-24-2017, 07:13 PM
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step five is about "the exact nature of our wrongs".

our wrongs, not society's wrongs with regards to us.

so , as Berrybean mentions, sounds like there is stuff left there to be looked at in your fourth step, and resentments.

as far as sexuality, no matter what yours is or isn't, that in itself is not a 'wrong'.

if your sponsor seems not to have told you , or you have not read together the BB about who to choose for step five, and to do this very carefully, then they have been remiss, and i hope you will bring this up with them.
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Old 02-24-2017, 08:13 PM
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On my first 5th Step purposely I left one big thing out. It always bothered me that I did that. Many years later when doing the Steps with another Sponsor I got it all out. Still think that it may have been best shared with a Pastor. A Pastor who I didn't know. Thus -- the anonymous phone call.
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Old 02-25-2017, 04:21 AM
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I don't think it's an all or nothing proposition. I have heard people share that they did steps 4 & 5 more than once. My thought is to do as much as you can today and over time you can decide if you want/need to get the rest of your issues out on the table. Good luck!
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Old 02-25-2017, 11:11 AM
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Old 02-25-2017, 11:33 AM
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I'm reading Breathing Under Water: Spirituality and the Twelve Steps, by Richard Rohr. It might be of some help to you.
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Old 02-25-2017, 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by AAPJ View Post
I don't think it's an all or nothing proposition. I have heard people share that they did steps 4 & 5 more than once. My thought is to do as much as you can today and over time you can decide if you want/need to get the rest of your issues out on the table. Good luck!


I guess.



I did mine last night (sat with my "Sponsor" for 4 and a half hours telling him my 5th step) and I surprisingly didn't feel as free as I was expecting after it was done.


Between those of us here, I didn't bring up any of the pain I've had with people accusing me of being gay or that it's always rumbled around in my noggin for pretty much my entire adult life.


So I did take a "5th step" for the first time in my life (I'm 37)....
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Old 05-13-2017, 11:44 PM
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Thing is, the things we most don't want to talk about tend to be the things we most NEED to talk about. We're only as sick as our secrets. Keeping them is like choosing to keep a little poison arrow stuck in our backside. Freedom comes through honestly.

5th step is all about finding out our fear and ego has such a hold over us. Most of our fears don't stem from what we are, but around how we think others do or may perceive us. Why not contact your sponsor and say you left something out and need to go ovr that last thing. I suspect that once you've done this you will find the relief you seek.

No one can force you to do this. You are in control of your own recovery.
This speaker recording helped me in the lead up to my step 5. It might be worth a listen. Charlie is an alcoholic rather than AlAnon, but the principles of fear controlling us is the same whichever side of the fence we're on ... Charlie C. - Step 4 Fear & Sex, Stateline Retreat; Primm, Nevada - 2006 | Alcoholism Recovery Speaker

You know, plenty of poeple in AA relapse after leaving something (intentionally ) out of their step 5. In a way it's easier for them to see the results of their omission, and go back to start again. I suspect that would be harder for an al-anon as there is no obvious relapse, just a long term lack of the promises coming to fruition.

You, like everyone else, deserves those promises to come true. But it is a gift that only you can give yourself. The price might seem high at the moment, but I assure you that once you've voiced it to your sponsor, that secret fear you've buried in your heart will lose all its power over you. I don't know you, but I'm praying that you will choose to lean into your fear and give yourself that gift. And the sooner the better.

Wishing you all the best for your recovery. BB
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