How do I tell someone they have a problem? Can I?
All is Change
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,284
How do I tell someone they have a problem? Can I?
What a day!
A week or so ago there was a local flood and hundreds of books in my shop were ruined. While I think the next door having altered the levels on his land is at least partly responsible, no luck there. An act of God. Poor God. Such responsibilities. (ibiliti :-) ).
So today I got off my butt and took a trailer load to the tip. Hot sweaty and dusty. I also took a lot of things I've been hoarding and I managed to only bring back a nice bucket and a nice measuring jug. Amazing the things people throw away!
And lo, a young family came and bought enough so I can pay the rent.
While having a cold shower, which is ok because it's 29*C, as the water heater is busted and I've been too lazy to get it fixed, I couldn't help laughing at the absurdity of it all. I don't think I would have managed as well as I have had I been boozing. Which means I somehow gotta chat with the local florist. He stinks of booze in the middle of the day. But how?
A week or so ago there was a local flood and hundreds of books in my shop were ruined. While I think the next door having altered the levels on his land is at least partly responsible, no luck there. An act of God. Poor God. Such responsibilities. (ibiliti :-) ).
So today I got off my butt and took a trailer load to the tip. Hot sweaty and dusty. I also took a lot of things I've been hoarding and I managed to only bring back a nice bucket and a nice measuring jug. Amazing the things people throw away!
And lo, a young family came and bought enough so I can pay the rent.
While having a cold shower, which is ok because it's 29*C, as the water heater is busted and I've been too lazy to get it fixed, I couldn't help laughing at the absurdity of it all. I don't think I would have managed as well as I have had I been boozing. Which means I somehow gotta chat with the local florist. He stinks of booze in the middle of the day. But how?
All is Change
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,284
No, he's got a shop elsewhere in town. I don't know him except to buy plants.
Yeah, I figure. I kinda feel responsible though. What if he has an accident in his car? I think I might just say next time "I trust you don't drink and drive."
Yeah, I figure. I kinda feel responsible though. What if he has an accident in his car? I think I might just say next time "I trust you don't drink and drive."
Member
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: New Orleans, LA
Posts: 985
The only humans I would ever confront about concerns related to their drug or alcohol use might be my adult children, a partner, or one of a handful of life-long friends.
My experience is that approaching that topic with anyone outside our very innermost circle is counterproductive. Creates stubborn, angry resistance. "Makes them want a drink to spite you..."
I believe it is far more effective (if you worry about someone you are not close to & want to help them) to offer your friendship! Alcoholism & addiction feed ravenously on loneliness!!
Invite the guy out to coffee. Tell him you're sober (look fun & sort of happy while you share that!). Then go chat one morning at the flower shop. Meet him to play checkers in the park...
Befriending someone is (in my experience) about a zillion times more effective in their blossoming than confronting their deficits as a stranger.
If an acquaintance took it upon themselves to call me out on ANY aspect of my lifestyle, my only response would be a stubborn "F*** you!"
But if someone who I consider a friend offers feedback, I hear it & care.
My experience is that approaching that topic with anyone outside our very innermost circle is counterproductive. Creates stubborn, angry resistance. "Makes them want a drink to spite you..."
I believe it is far more effective (if you worry about someone you are not close to & want to help them) to offer your friendship! Alcoholism & addiction feed ravenously on loneliness!!
Invite the guy out to coffee. Tell him you're sober (look fun & sort of happy while you share that!). Then go chat one morning at the flower shop. Meet him to play checkers in the park...
Befriending someone is (in my experience) about a zillion times more effective in their blossoming than confronting their deficits as a stranger.
If an acquaintance took it upon themselves to call me out on ANY aspect of my lifestyle, my only response would be a stubborn "F*** you!"
But if someone who I consider a friend offers feedback, I hear it & care.
All is Change
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,284
Ok, I hear you. I don't feel particularly friendly with this gut. He's old and distant. But I understand what you're saying. However, this kind of old digger, if said right, won't be offended badly. I don't mind him responding offensively. I told a guy I know once very clearly. I haven't seen him since so I don't know if it had any positive effect. I know he heard me though.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: New Orleans, LA
Posts: 985
Old distant guys are lonely.
Use your healing powers!
He already knows he's drinking inappropriately. It will not be news no matter how politely he receives it.
It will make him happy to play checkers.
Use your healing powers!
He already knows he's drinking inappropriately. It will not be news no matter how politely he receives it.
It will make him happy to play checkers.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: New Orleans, LA
Posts: 985
Ps. This is what is called "service work."
It doesn't happen just in AA meetings. The concept of "service work" healing the alcoholic is that we reach out & connect with people who are lonely & difficult & isolated & hopeless inside their addictions or alcoholism.
I hold my edges, mind you. My home is seperate & safe (nobody gets to stay in my couch). I choose where to put that energy, & which of the very many people I meet who are lonely & off their path I would like to connect with.
I never give money or "make phone calls to get help" for folks who are perfectly capable of doing such on their own,
My service is kind of low-key. I walked with an elder man home to our neighborhood from the grocery store today. He's a cranky old alcoholic. We never talked about that.
But, I suspect I'm the only person he actually talked to today. He typically just stands on his porch lobbing cigarette butts out onto the sidewalk, while a very loud TV blares behind him from inside his small apartment.
So, I think that is what's meant by service (my own interpretation, for sure). Because when there are no human voices left in our lives, the bottle has a voice.
It doesn't happen just in AA meetings. The concept of "service work" healing the alcoholic is that we reach out & connect with people who are lonely & difficult & isolated & hopeless inside their addictions or alcoholism.
I hold my edges, mind you. My home is seperate & safe (nobody gets to stay in my couch). I choose where to put that energy, & which of the very many people I meet who are lonely & off their path I would like to connect with.
I never give money or "make phone calls to get help" for folks who are perfectly capable of doing such on their own,
My service is kind of low-key. I walked with an elder man home to our neighborhood from the grocery store today. He's a cranky old alcoholic. We never talked about that.
But, I suspect I'm the only person he actually talked to today. He typically just stands on his porch lobbing cigarette butts out onto the sidewalk, while a very loud TV blares behind him from inside his small apartment.
So, I think that is what's meant by service (my own interpretation, for sure). Because when there are no human voices left in our lives, the bottle has a voice.
totfit
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Ft Collins, CO
Posts: 1,273
If it is someone I have a relationship with or feel some human bond, then I might mention what I observe and share a bit about myself. I would not do this with someone I did not think I could not possibly reach. If it were not someone I did not have a relationship with, I might just mention that I smell it and others might too, if he or she were not aware. Some folks still have a drink at lunch. It used to be the norm for some folks in some professions. I would try not and say much more unless there were definitely issues.
Member
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 2,950
It is sweet that you care. People noticed I smelled of booze during the day and never said anything. I know they noticed. They didn't want to be rude, and they didn't want to get involved, and the didn't give a **** about me.
Might I add that that's okay, not everybody has to give a **** about me. It's not their job. But that doesn't change the fact that they didn't want to help me.
I would leave some sort of AA literature in the shop when he isn't looking. That's just me.
Might I add that that's okay, not everybody has to give a **** about me. It's not their job. But that doesn't change the fact that they didn't want to help me.
I would leave some sort of AA literature in the shop when he isn't looking. That's just me.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Rupert ID
Posts: 469
Originally Posted by heartcore 
The only humans I would ever confront about concerns related to their drug or alcohol use might be my adult children, a partner, or one of a handful of life-long friends.
My experience is that approaching that topic with anyone outside our very innermost circle is counterproductive.
My experience is that approaching that topic with anyone outside our very innermost circle is counterproductive.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 10,912
I agree with hearcore's posts above. I would also ask myself why I feel a need to remind a quazi stranger of his drinking problem? It does not seem likely that being told would make much of a difference except perhaps making him avoid people even more.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: MN
Posts: 8,704
I have to agree with Dee on this one. Maybe let sleeping dogs lie. You might be able to get him to open up a little if you start by speaking about your journey. Glad you got through the difficult "act of god". Being drunk or hungover would have made it worse, correct?
All is Change
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,284
Thank you all. I really appreciate it.
I think you're all right which means I'll take a bit from all suggestions.
I'm going to take a stack of AA lealfets (maybe find some online and print them out) then go in to his shop and ask if I can leave a couple on the counter. (The AA meeting is just around the corner anyway.) I'll do this in a friendly brief manner. He can say yes or no as he wishes. He can think what he wants to of me.
Next time I go into his shop to buy something, which won't be for weeks/months (quite frankly I find his manner off putting, which come to think of it possibly suits him like any self fulfilling prophecy) (and I've got all the potting soil I need.) or any time after that, he can bring the subject up if he wants to.
Thomas. Indeed and that was just the first half of the day. When boozing my big event would have been getting together money and stumbling to the bottle-o for my fix. The basic feelings I have to deal with haven't changed much but my ability to deal with them stand in stark relief. I feel an abiding debt of gratitude to the community.
I think you're all right which means I'll take a bit from all suggestions.
I'm going to take a stack of AA lealfets (maybe find some online and print them out) then go in to his shop and ask if I can leave a couple on the counter. (The AA meeting is just around the corner anyway.) I'll do this in a friendly brief manner. He can say yes or no as he wishes. He can think what he wants to of me.
Next time I go into his shop to buy something, which won't be for weeks/months (quite frankly I find his manner off putting, which come to think of it possibly suits him like any self fulfilling prophecy) (and I've got all the potting soil I need.) or any time after that, he can bring the subject up if he wants to.
Thomas. Indeed and that was just the first half of the day. When boozing my big event would have been getting together money and stumbling to the bottle-o for my fix. The basic feelings I have to deal with haven't changed much but my ability to deal with them stand in stark relief. I feel an abiding debt of gratitude to the community.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: canada
Posts: 748
You might want to consider your whole strategy here. I've been the recipient of well meaning people who came to diagnose and offer solutions to my problems, and the irony was that they didn't know me well enough to know what my real problems were. What they could see were symptoms of something much deeper and painful. It was a demoralizing experience that ended up causing me even more stress and emotional pain.
I don't doubt that you are well-meaning and well-intentioned, but asking to leave AA leaflets in the business of someone who you suspect to be an alcoholic comes across as passive agressive and an intrusive way to give unsolicited help. You may also want to consider how asking to leave AA literature in someone's place of business aligns with the anonymity of the program. People going into the business and seeing AA literature on the counter will likely make some immediate assumptions about the owner, so if he is an alcoholic and ever decides to get help via the AA route you've effectively compromised his anonymity.
I don't doubt that you are well-meaning and well-intentioned, but asking to leave AA leaflets in the business of someone who you suspect to be an alcoholic comes across as passive agressive and an intrusive way to give unsolicited help. You may also want to consider how asking to leave AA literature in someone's place of business aligns with the anonymity of the program. People going into the business and seeing AA literature on the counter will likely make some immediate assumptions about the owner, so if he is an alcoholic and ever decides to get help via the AA route you've effectively compromised his anonymity.
All is Change
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,284
Yes..what is my motivation. My very first thought was concern for people on the road if he drinks. Then concern for myself if I don't do anything. Then a grudging concern for him personally, so I think there is an element of passive agression there.
I remember once in my youth coming to on a pile of rubbish where I'd obviously passed out the night before. In my pocket I found a little note just saying 'we care' and a phone number. I never rang but that little gesture meant a lot.
Part of the pamphlet I downloaded says,
What A.A. does not do
A.A. does not: Furnish initial motivation for alcoholics to recover...solicit members... etc.
What to do? Nothing?
I'll put them in my breast pocket where the AA at a glance heading is clearly visible and say nothing and I only compromise myself. If he or anyone else wants to say or think something that's their business. ?
I remember once in my youth coming to on a pile of rubbish where I'd obviously passed out the night before. In my pocket I found a little note just saying 'we care' and a phone number. I never rang but that little gesture meant a lot.
Part of the pamphlet I downloaded says,
What A.A. does not do
A.A. does not: Furnish initial motivation for alcoholics to recover...solicit members... etc.
What to do? Nothing?
I'll put them in my breast pocket where the AA at a glance heading is clearly visible and say nothing and I only compromise myself. If he or anyone else wants to say or think something that's their business. ?
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,439
Originally Posted by BrendaChenowyth
It is sweet that you care. People noticed I smelled of booze during the day and never said anything. I know they noticed. They didn't want to be rude, and they didn't want to get involved, and the didn't give a **** about me.
Might I add that that's okay, not everybody has to give a **** about me. It's not their job. But that doesn't change the fact that they didn't want to help me.
I would leave some sort of AA literature in the shop when he isn't looking. That's just me.
Might I add that that's okay, not everybody has to give a **** about me. It's not their job. But that doesn't change the fact that they didn't want to help me.
I would leave some sort of AA literature in the shop when he isn't looking. That's just me.
It's about drawing from my own experience, and knowing that unless a person is ready to quit I might simply have given them a reason to drink at me.
I care about everyone. That's one of the reason I started drinking.
D
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