Need to stay strong...but need a 2nd opinion
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: SaiGon, Vietnam
Posts: 62
Need to stay strong...but need a 2nd opinion
Hello All
I have been reading these forums trying to find identification - from both sides of Alcoholism - but my AH does not always seem to 'fit'.
He left 3 months ago because he was secretly drinking nd left a sorry little message about how he always hurts me and he doesn't want to lie to me anymore, admitting his drinking was out of hand, too ashamed to tell AA......blah blah
Turned nasty and seemed to forget all that when I challenged him over finances - have not heard a word since mid-December, although I did hear indirectly. His life is not the fun filled party he expected - but he seems to be surviving.
My confusion - or how he controlled me? - is that although he could be a very selfish, manipulative lying drunk. He could also be a very understanding, caring, honest (ish), protective, unselfish person.
I have gone no-contact recently - no searching/talking/indirect communication and feel resolved to go through with divorcing him. He has done some truly horrendous things to us and created periods of chaos between his trying to get sober times - but I find myself counting how many days he has been gone and comparing it to the last time (5years ago) when he left us in a similar way.
I was resolved that time too - but he eventually turned up and broke down begging forgiveness, started treatment - and I surprised myself how I gave in so quickly. I am really worried about my own self denial. I had no plans to take him back and thought I had moved on with my life.
The only difference then was my older DD wanted him back too and had been in contact with him and arranged the meeting between us.Not sure she wanted him back really - but she wanted the focus off her adolescent antics which were pretty dramatic at the time.
Plus as I have said, he can be sooo charming and disarming and humble - but of course it did not last. The rollercoaster continues although more quietly.
Undoubtedly, my life and my younger DD's life is better but I know she misses him too. They had some good times together and she rarely saw him drink - although she experienced the angry, irrational behaviour. I would be the peace maker, smoothing things over, trying to keep us all together. My DD would be fanning the flames, refusing to accept his unacceptable behaviour....oh how I wish I had stayed away 5 years ago.
I want to feel more confident in myself that I will not go back for more.
Help!
I have been reading these forums trying to find identification - from both sides of Alcoholism - but my AH does not always seem to 'fit'.
He left 3 months ago because he was secretly drinking nd left a sorry little message about how he always hurts me and he doesn't want to lie to me anymore, admitting his drinking was out of hand, too ashamed to tell AA......blah blah
Turned nasty and seemed to forget all that when I challenged him over finances - have not heard a word since mid-December, although I did hear indirectly. His life is not the fun filled party he expected - but he seems to be surviving.
My confusion - or how he controlled me? - is that although he could be a very selfish, manipulative lying drunk. He could also be a very understanding, caring, honest (ish), protective, unselfish person.
I have gone no-contact recently - no searching/talking/indirect communication and feel resolved to go through with divorcing him. He has done some truly horrendous things to us and created periods of chaos between his trying to get sober times - but I find myself counting how many days he has been gone and comparing it to the last time (5years ago) when he left us in a similar way.
I was resolved that time too - but he eventually turned up and broke down begging forgiveness, started treatment - and I surprised myself how I gave in so quickly. I am really worried about my own self denial. I had no plans to take him back and thought I had moved on with my life.
The only difference then was my older DD wanted him back too and had been in contact with him and arranged the meeting between us.Not sure she wanted him back really - but she wanted the focus off her adolescent antics which were pretty dramatic at the time.
Plus as I have said, he can be sooo charming and disarming and humble - but of course it did not last. The rollercoaster continues although more quietly.
Undoubtedly, my life and my younger DD's life is better but I know she misses him too. They had some good times together and she rarely saw him drink - although she experienced the angry, irrational behaviour. I would be the peace maker, smoothing things over, trying to keep us all together. My DD would be fanning the flames, refusing to accept his unacceptable behaviour....oh how I wish I had stayed away 5 years ago.
I want to feel more confident in myself that I will not go back for more.
Help!
Sober since 10th April 2012
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 6,047
Hi Merhaba, I don't think you really need a second opinion as you know what you're doing is the right thing for you.
If you're afraid he'll turn on the charm and you'll give in, why not start writing a list of things that happened when he was drinking to remind yourself?
You might also put yourself in his shoes. What would you promise to lure your wife back? What lies would tell? Then when he comes out with the charm you'll already have heard it in your mind.
I honestly don't think you will be fooled a second time. You sound too determined and clear headed.
If you're afraid he'll turn on the charm and you'll give in, why not start writing a list of things that happened when he was drinking to remind yourself?
You might also put yourself in his shoes. What would you promise to lure your wife back? What lies would tell? Then when he comes out with the charm you'll already have heard it in your mind.
I honestly don't think you will be fooled a second time. You sound too determined and clear headed.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: SaiGon, Vietnam
Posts: 62
Feeling Great
Wish I had your confidence in me. I hope I don't weaken. Right now, I feel I won't but I have a capacity for forgiveness....and gullibility?....I can't bring myself yet to write down all that has happened. I still can't believe that he could walk away from us so easily after all we have gone through together over the past ten years....but he did.
Wish I had your confidence in me. I hope I don't weaken. Right now, I feel I won't but I have a capacity for forgiveness....and gullibility?....I can't bring myself yet to write down all that has happened. I still can't believe that he could walk away from us so easily after all we have gone through together over the past ten years....but he did.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: SaiGon, Vietnam
Posts: 62
Thanks Sparklekitty
I am working hard at no contact even in my thoughts. Think I am more afraid of my reaction if I DO see or hear from him. SaiGon is a small place really and I am not relaxed when I am downtown. His visa here runs out in June (I resisted cancelling it although it is attached to my work permit as a spouse visa) I hope he moves on. I know it will be easier for me if his physical presence is far far away
I am working hard at no contact even in my thoughts. Think I am more afraid of my reaction if I DO see or hear from him. SaiGon is a small place really and I am not relaxed when I am downtown. His visa here runs out in June (I resisted cancelling it although it is attached to my work permit as a spouse visa) I hope he moves on. I know it will be easier for me if his physical presence is far far away
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Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Northwest
Posts: 4,215
The longer this goes on the more your daughters are being set up to repeat this relationship in their lives and more than likely will find charming/abusive addicts because subconsciously, they will believe they can fix them in a way that mommy couldn't. Your oldest daughter is already showing some strong codependency traits.
You know you want better for them.
You know you want better for them.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 2,792
M,
He walked away so he can drink on his schedule and no one is judging him. He will fry himself out and reach out for help, again.
The thing is, you can not help him. When he calls tell him to call his dr. for help. He knows you love him and will support him, so why does he care. While he is gone, educate yourself and understand he no different then any other drunk.
He does what you wants, and begs for forgiveness, again. Not fair for you or your daughter. Stay strong and stay no contact with him. Reach out to an attorney and move on with your life. He loves alcohol more then you and your daughter.
He walked away so he can drink on his schedule and no one is judging him. He will fry himself out and reach out for help, again.
The thing is, you can not help him. When he calls tell him to call his dr. for help. He knows you love him and will support him, so why does he care. While he is gone, educate yourself and understand he no different then any other drunk.
He does what you wants, and begs for forgiveness, again. Not fair for you or your daughter. Stay strong and stay no contact with him. Reach out to an attorney and move on with your life. He loves alcohol more then you and your daughter.
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
Many alcoholics can also behave in charming and sweet ways. They aren't necessarily horrible people. But they can suck the life out of you just the same.
Look at it as a matter of necessity for you. My second husband was a sweet and compassionate man (though he could behave in awful ways when drunk). I had to cut him loose for my own sanity. It wasn't to punish him, or a matter of my judging him or not caring about him. It was a matter of self-preservation. I can't even imagine what my life would have looked like if I'd stayed. Too awful to contemplate.
Look at it as a matter of necessity for you. My second husband was a sweet and compassionate man (though he could behave in awful ways when drunk). I had to cut him loose for my own sanity. It wasn't to punish him, or a matter of my judging him or not caring about him. It was a matter of self-preservation. I can't even imagine what my life would have looked like if I'd stayed. Too awful to contemplate.
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Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Midwest
Posts: 11,481
merhaba, it sounds like you're still married to this man. I'd also like to suggest that you consider the possible legal/financial ramifications of remaining married to someone whose whereabouts you don't even know. If he ends up in the hospital, you could end up on the hook for medical bills. If he gets in legal trouble, you could end up as part of a lawsuit.
I know you're not in the US, so I'm not sure what your responsibilities might be there, nor am I sure how difficult a divorce would be, but this is certainly something to think about. I don't know that simply not living with him would protect you from possible legal or financial entanglements he may get into and that you may not find out about until it's way too late.
I know you're not in the US, so I'm not sure what your responsibilities might be there, nor am I sure how difficult a divorce would be, but this is certainly something to think about. I don't know that simply not living with him would protect you from possible legal or financial entanglements he may get into and that you may not find out about until it's way too late.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: SaiGon, Vietnam
Posts: 62
Thanks Honeypig
I have already started divorce proceedings. ...in Turkey. I'm British but we were married in Turkey. AH is Turkish. I was hoping that he would agree to an uncontested divorce but that does not seem likely. I think I have a good solicitor and will give her POA to act on my behalf. She will also prevent him from selling our family home.
I know where he is - he is here in SaiGon - but you are right about financial ramifications. I have discovered a debt against the house - which I think I will have to pay to safeguard my home - but my solicitor will advise me on that shortly.
it really irks me that he has none of these responsibilities or consequences to face. The grown up stuff - but I expect he will have to face his own consequences one day.
Thanks for caring x
I have already started divorce proceedings. ...in Turkey. I'm British but we were married in Turkey. AH is Turkish. I was hoping that he would agree to an uncontested divorce but that does not seem likely. I think I have a good solicitor and will give her POA to act on my behalf. She will also prevent him from selling our family home.
I know where he is - he is here in SaiGon - but you are right about financial ramifications. I have discovered a debt against the house - which I think I will have to pay to safeguard my home - but my solicitor will advise me on that shortly.
it really irks me that he has none of these responsibilities or consequences to face. The grown up stuff - but I expect he will have to face his own consequences one day.
Thanks for caring x
Member
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 612
Look into a book called "Getting Out! How to prepare to leave the narcissist" by H.G. Tudor...whether or not this person is a narc or not this book is REALLY helping me to prepare to go no contact/only for the kids. It's really helpful in identifying why I failed to stay separated last time.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 430
Merhaba,
One thing it took me a long time to accept was that continuing to give my STBXAH second (third, fourth) chances was harmful to everyone involved, especially our children but including me and him.
He would argue that I owed it to our marriage, that if I loved him . . . blah blah blah.
Finally I realized that my staying was just prolonging the roller coaster of his drinking and the chaos it caused in our family's life. It wasn't helping, no matter what he claimed. I wasn't the reason he drank, and nothing I did stopped him from drinking, either.
If he shows up and tries to guilt trip you or to suggest that you owe him something, try to keep in mind that he very likely doesn't know what he needs. He may just want to go back to what was relatively comfortable and easy. But you know what that looks like, and how unhealthy it was for everyone in your family.
Life can be so much better than that.
One thing it took me a long time to accept was that continuing to give my STBXAH second (third, fourth) chances was harmful to everyone involved, especially our children but including me and him.
He would argue that I owed it to our marriage, that if I loved him . . . blah blah blah.
Finally I realized that my staying was just prolonging the roller coaster of his drinking and the chaos it caused in our family's life. It wasn't helping, no matter what he claimed. I wasn't the reason he drank, and nothing I did stopped him from drinking, either.
If he shows up and tries to guilt trip you or to suggest that you owe him something, try to keep in mind that he very likely doesn't know what he needs. He may just want to go back to what was relatively comfortable and easy. But you know what that looks like, and how unhealthy it was for everyone in your family.
Life can be so much better than that.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 773
Merhaba
To me he sounds like he "fits" perfectly. Sounds just like my XAH actually.
Down to the speech - when I took him to rehab he said "he was tired of lies and we would be better off without him". Turns out he did not really wanted to get better, he ended up escaping rehab and going to stay with sketchy characters who were supporting his drinking and drugging.
I'd watch out for him burning out and crawling back to you to "heal" him.
Good luck and stay strong - you are in a right place
To me he sounds like he "fits" perfectly. Sounds just like my XAH actually.
Down to the speech - when I took him to rehab he said "he was tired of lies and we would be better off without him". Turns out he did not really wanted to get better, he ended up escaping rehab and going to stay with sketchy characters who were supporting his drinking and drugging.
I'd watch out for him burning out and crawling back to you to "heal" him.
Good luck and stay strong - you are in a right place
Member
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 994
I want to feel more confident in myself that I will not go back for more.
Help!
I took my now exah back 4 times. I decided to write a blog about our lives documenting every detail, the good, bad and ugly. My adult children contributed to the blog too. It became therapy for them to get things out. It was when reading it back I saw clearly why I rinsed and repeated and why it had to stop. My motto became the definition of madness is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. I realised I only had to say no to him for him to turn. It might help you detailing life in this way. xx
Help!
I took my now exah back 4 times. I decided to write a blog about our lives documenting every detail, the good, bad and ugly. My adult children contributed to the blog too. It became therapy for them to get things out. It was when reading it back I saw clearly why I rinsed and repeated and why it had to stop. My motto became the definition of madness is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. I realised I only had to say no to him for him to turn. It might help you detailing life in this way. xx
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: SaiGon, Vietnam
Posts: 62
Thanks Guys
it really helps to know others have gone/are going through this too.
I am moving on with my life in many ways and I'm feeling quite strong in myself - but there is a corner of my mind that is desolate that AH has not been in contact at all. It's my birthday on Tuesday and I will be looking for a birthday message - even though there was no msj for Christmas or New Year - and even though I know it means nothing and doesn't change anything. Stil, I feel rejected and unloveable...even my crazy AH can leave me without a second thought.
it really helps to know others have gone/are going through this too.
I am moving on with my life in many ways and I'm feeling quite strong in myself - but there is a corner of my mind that is desolate that AH has not been in contact at all. It's my birthday on Tuesday and I will be looking for a birthday message - even though there was no msj for Christmas or New Year - and even though I know it means nothing and doesn't change anything. Stil, I feel rejected and unloveable...even my crazy AH can leave me without a second thought.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Midwest
Posts: 11,481
merhaba, what you're doing (and what we've all done at some point) is called "going to the hardware store for bread." You are looking for something from your AH that he simply does not have, just as if you perused the shelves of your local Ace or True Value for some nice Jewish rye w/seeds...
And it's not that the hardware store doesn't have bread b/c you're not a good enough person, or that you don't deserve it. They don't have it b/c that's just not what they sell. They are a hardware store! It's completely unrelated to anything about you--aside from the fact that you keep walking in and looking for that crispy, tasty loaf that they do not carry, and then feeling bummed when once again you don't find it...
It hurts to feel forgotten, no doubt, especially when it's by someone who has occupied such a large part of our lives and hearts. This reading from the Alanon daily reader book, "Courage to Change", might be helpful for you:
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...are-store.html
And it's not that the hardware store doesn't have bread b/c you're not a good enough person, or that you don't deserve it. They don't have it b/c that's just not what they sell. They are a hardware store! It's completely unrelated to anything about you--aside from the fact that you keep walking in and looking for that crispy, tasty loaf that they do not carry, and then feeling bummed when once again you don't find it...
It hurts to feel forgotten, no doubt, especially when it's by someone who has occupied such a large part of our lives and hearts. This reading from the Alanon daily reader book, "Courage to Change", might be helpful for you:
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...are-store.html
Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: atlanta, ga
Posts: 3,581
The reason your crazy AH can leave you without a second thought is because a pattern has been established of accepting unacceptable behavior, and allowing him to return before.
If he "really" thought that you "really" would never allow him to return, his actions would be different I guarantee it.
We condition people by our own actions to act the way they do sometimes. Usually this is out of guilt - a feeling that we need to show the A we forgive them and encourage them to become sober - feel we own them another chance. And another. And Another. And Another.
By your own admission here your life is better without this person in it. Keep it that way. You do him a disservice by allowing him to come home when he continues drink, and cause chaos in your home. Leaving now not once, but twice. One of the reasons alcoholics continue their path is lack of responsibility for their actions - consequences are short lived, or not at all. That would be often thanks to us.............
As for feeling rejected and unlovable that's and internal "caused by you" feeling - living with an alcoholic, or someone who displays this type of behavior, is being rejected and unloved everyday. When you choose not to be around it you are choosing to be loving to yourself and your daughter. You deserve way better than this. I'd pass on reconciliation here any day of the week and 10 times on Sunday.
If he "really" thought that you "really" would never allow him to return, his actions would be different I guarantee it.
We condition people by our own actions to act the way they do sometimes. Usually this is out of guilt - a feeling that we need to show the A we forgive them and encourage them to become sober - feel we own them another chance. And another. And Another. And Another.
By your own admission here your life is better without this person in it. Keep it that way. You do him a disservice by allowing him to come home when he continues drink, and cause chaos in your home. Leaving now not once, but twice. One of the reasons alcoholics continue their path is lack of responsibility for their actions - consequences are short lived, or not at all. That would be often thanks to us.............
As for feeling rejected and unlovable that's and internal "caused by you" feeling - living with an alcoholic, or someone who displays this type of behavior, is being rejected and unloved everyday. When you choose not to be around it you are choosing to be loving to yourself and your daughter. You deserve way better than this. I'd pass on reconciliation here any day of the week and 10 times on Sunday.
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