wpainterw

Just had an interesting conversation with a lady in our neighborhood. Both her kids have had troubles with alcohol and "dual diagnosis?" and she attends a monthly church meeting, modeled on AA but she says "not exactly AA because of the emphasis on dual diagnosis. Like AA everyone gets a chance to "share" and there is no crosstalk."
All or nearly all those who attend are "young", frantic about their situation and not interested in spending time on anything "intellectual". I thought of attending and drawing their attention to SoberRecovery, which I think has an appeal to all persons with addictions, including those suffering from dual diagnosis. But may not go there since I am old (90 this year) and sometimes it may appear to others, particularly those much younger than I, that I may be "lecturing", "pontificating", etc. even though I have said many times that I'm more like a man with a rope, just trying to get people started coming up out of the hole which they may be digging deeper for themselves. If they would only get on SR for awhile they can forget about me. I'm old. I may live only two or three years what with my heart situation, I'd be glad if I have helped anyone, even one. Christ said something like that. I hope that Christ will forgive me for whatever I may have done in those dreadful years long ago. And that anyone on SR will forgive me if I seemed to be "lecturing" "pontificating" or "talking down" to them.

Bill.

HTown

I think you should go, if you are concerned about appearing as a lecturer, hang back a bit. Don't talk much at the first meeting or two. Get the lay of the land. You may find that one person to help.

Yes, I have no doubt that you are forgiven if you have asked for forgiveness.

Ina123

I agree you should go. I'm new here and young-ish...34, and I wish I found this site years ago! It's such a remarkable resource. Perhaps if you're comfortable, tell them a little about your story with alcohol. Maybe a few will be able to relate. Perhaps even preface it by saying that you're not trying to come across as lecturing, etc. Like you said, even if you reach just one person....

least

I'd go and tell them about SR. I told my addiction counselor and she told some of her other clients.

All you can do is give them the info. What they do with it is up to them.

SoberLeigh

Go for it, Bill. We love you and my bet is they will, also.

Steely

I'd go painter, all you are doing is opening up further options to people which is a great thing to do. Many people do not know their options, and it helps to know.

Perhaps the anonymity of SR would appeal. Is there a young people's thread? I'm not that cluie on all the different threads. Maybe they could start one.

Never once have I thought of you as lecturing or pontificating painter, in fact quite the reverse. You are always very measured.

Made me laugh though, when you said these young people were not interested in anything "intellectual", so you refer them to SR. Thanks painter

ChloeRose63

Yep, you should go. If one person gets to know about SR...you may have just done your good deed!

Dee74

If you feel up to it and you want to go, why not Bill?

I for one value your contributions here and hope they continue for many years to come

D

wpainterw

Hi Steely! You wrote "Made me laugh though, when you said these young people were not interested in anything "intellectual", so you refer them to SR. Thanks painter ".
LOL! In no way was I implying that SR is "low brow". If anything it's "no brow'. Neither "intellectual" (horrible term) nor (whatever the perforative for the converse is). AA often says, "Don't intellectualize! Your brain got you here. It''s your worst enemy!"). If this means mindless goose-stepping and perpetual dependence on a "sponsor" then count me out. "Keep it simple" doesn't mean be a helpless idiot for the rest of your life, addicted to a "sponsor".(I once knew an AA fellow who said he had to call his sponsor several times before shaving in the morning.) If you want to prolong an addiction, try a dog. See Caroline Knapp's "Pack of Two".
As for the guy in the hole and someone throws him a rope, the story goes that he yells up, "I've got the rope! Now what do I do? "The voice says, "Let go of the rope!" The man says, "I don't want to. Who am I talking to?" The voice says, "God!" And the man says , "Well is anyone else up there?")

Bill

Notimetoloose

wpainterw, I don't think it gets said enough, I think you are awesome!
You inspire me and I value your input; not only because of your age but because of your genuineness and experience.
I figure you would know a thing or two and I read when I see you have posted.
If you are up to it, why not go, do what you do, be yourself, contributing is a gift that we give not only to others but also to ourselves.

wpainterw

Notimettoloose! Only the Grand Canyon is "awesome". Oh, maybe Ayres Rock and the Outback (I like folks from "Oz").
That "rope" story is of course a take on the AA "Let Go and let God!" which in turn is a take on the "Serenity Prayer". But what do atheists and agnostics do? I suggest they can follow what they do in the Mob movies. Say,, "Ahhh! Justgawananfuggeddaboudid" ("Uddahwise Yuhgonnaget cement overshoes! Youdonbelieve dis! Ahgowanangeddoudaheah!")

bemyself

bill, I agree wholeheartedly with Notimetoloose: especially 'do what you do, be yourself...' That in itself will be the gift to those young people. As you said a little earlier: give 'em the 'no-brow' story of your life and journey. Dual diagnosis / addiction and all. Just your story and your take on living. After all, these younger ones are trying - just like those here - to cope with getting clean / sober and coping with mental health probs in an extremely difficult world.

As I know you've commented occasionally over at AA Beyond Belief (as have I), I believe that you also may well be able to reassure some of them that the roads to recovery are many. Even Bill W came to see that in his later writings. You know that. The world has changed almost beyond comprehension, in so many ways. But what hasn't changed is that a simple reaching out, offering some wisdom, with no expectations of plaudits or 'results', is something an elder (in that most ancient, almost tribal, sense) can provide as a boon to a younger person who's struggling.

I believe that you have the sensibilities to go to such a group, to sniff out when to speak and when to stay silent. If you do speak, from within your experience, I'd doubt very much that you need fear sounding like a pedagogue. (There are enough of THOSE around these days, in Yeats' sense: 'the best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity' ;-) You're neither of those extremes :-))

Mention SR, by all means, as a great community for some to look at. But you being there in person - even if you can only make it the once - may well be gold, if only for one or two. And then go home, rest and pat your dog. Job done.

Kind regards,
Vic

Thirteenth

By being yourself, Bill. You help on that score alone. You could tell them your story, tell them about SR or maybe just be there. If it's doable, just there to answer questions about getting sober and the benefits.

Much gratitude from me even if the impact you've had is not apparent.

tomsteve

peter "pontificating" on the day of pentacost saved about 3000 souls.

hope ya decide to go.

Steely

I think you offer so much here painter, an intellectual low brow, just my cup of tea. Thank you from Down Under.

wpainterw

Now that's a handle to challenge anyone! "Intellectual low brow". My favorites in that line are Groucho Marx (who may have invented the eyebrow), Inspector Clouseau, The Blues Brothers, Yogi Berra (Existentialist Baseball Philosopher), Laurel & Hardy, and the patron Saint of Ethel Alcohol, W.C. Fields (dentist and golf specialist (your club may be entangled in apple pie and old newspaper but keep your "eye on the ball"). cf. "The Fatal Glass of Beer" featuring the weeping Mountie.
Seriously, although I am not a professional therapist, it has often appeared to me that, despite the fact that many sufferers have a "dual diagnosis" (or maybe even triple, etc), the term has been used by enablers in denial to speculate that "Johnny isn't really an alcoholic. He just has to straighten our his meds. As soon as "we" (!) get that done I'm sure "we" can help him drink moderately. We can all have a glass or two of wine before or at dinner. I'm sure of that when "we" help him straighten out his meds." Reminds me of another situation where a divorced couple resisted therapy to help their kid by saying, "Johnny has been diagnosed with AD/HD. They're going to give him Ritalin and all will be well. My ex and I need not have counseling. Give the kid some pills and he'll be O.K. Didn't work. Divorcing parents should do everything possible to minimize damage to their offspring. They have the right to live their own lives but not to hurt their kids by doing that.
If I go to an AA meeting to mention Sober Recovery (and I have done that in the past) I think it may not be a "Dual Diagnosis" meeting such as this one.

W.

MythOfSisyphus

You can lead a horse to water and it can drink if it wants to. I would say go! Lead them to the water. If they won't drink that's their choice but no point in letting decades of wisdom (gained from decades of mistakes!) be wasted.

amy55

Painter,

Go for it. I think you are the right person for this, and you may just be the right person, at the right time for someone. No, you don't have to go there to preach or whatever you think you may be doing. You can go there to listen.

I once went to IOP. I had situational depression, and PTSD. The group they put me with was bi-polar, schizophrenic, post partum depression. I found out one thing that most of us had in common. We felt like we weren't being heard. It was like there were labels put on us, and that solved everything. It felt like we were dismissed because of that. Listening to someone, empathizing with that person, means a great deal. There were people that I met there that never trusted anyone, but yet they started to trust me. You get to these people mostly at break times, or before the meeting or after the meeting.

I may be wrong, but from what you wrote here, I think this is what your angle may be, especially after your last story about "give the kid a pill and everything will be fine".

(((((((((((hugs))))))))))))
amy

Delilah1

I definitely think you should go. I always love reading your posts. I think that if even one perso. Joins SR because of you that would be fantastic.

wpainterw

Actually they probably have the message already. My friend, who started the meeting and who cautioned me about lecturing, preaching, etc. says she did mention SoberRecovery to the group awhile back but it didn't "take". From the questions she asked me about SR it was clear that she never logged on to it or even went there as a guest. Indifference. I think that there may be a tendency to focus on mental illness as being less shameful than being a "drunk". If you're a schizoid or paranoid society today doesn't say it's your fault. But if you're a "drunk", watch out! I have a friend who calls us "Alkis"

W.