jessicawest

Hi everyone

I posted once before about the return of an old love after many years. My disappointment to find that it seems he is/becoming an alcoholic.

I voiced my concern once (Nov last year) and he actually admitted I have reason to be concerned. Because I didn't want to rock the boat too much I left it at that hoping that the fact that I mentioned it will make him think twice.

Anyways, for the rest of last year the pattern was the same.

We are 13 days into the new year and about a week ago I just had to mention it again. I find him to be kind of "hostile" toward me when drinking. Not all bad, but just a little bit opositional. I can live with it but it did give me an "excuse" to mention something about the drinking and I did.

Me: You are drinking WAY too much and I find you to be different towards me when drinking.
Him: I know I'm drinking too much. I'm sorry. It is a sensitive issue. I don't mean to be different towards you. I don't know how to stop once I start.
Me: let's make a deal
Him: ok?
Me: Your first two drinks everyday are free. For every drink after the second you pay me 5 bucks.
Him: Deal!

So I've put down a little money jar next his wine.

The next day he didn't drink AT all. I think it was his second alcohol free day in the 6 months Ive been here.

Now, there is a bit of a change in the pattern. He is starting later.... and believe it or not he is paying the 5 bucks every time he pours a drink after the second one.... lol. But unfortunately it didn't stop him at the second one, he is still drinking the same amount.

Another change, he has swapped the wine for whiskey. Is this a bad sign? There is a lot of alcohol in this house - on display as well. But he has not had wine for 3 days now. Only wiskey. Still paying the 5 bucks .....

Now I know wiskey is stronger than wine. Please help me out here, what should I do different? Is the change to wiskey a change in the wrong direction?

Anchored

When I first started suspecting that my husband was an alcoholic, I literally went through the 5 stages of grief: denial, anger, bargaining, depression and acceptance. In fact, I still find myself cycling through them every now and then.

Bargaining came up when I tried to fix him. To control him. I first asked him to stay away from rum because it made him a bit rude towards me. Then I asked him to limit his drinks. Then I asked him to not bring alcohol into the house. Short of asking him not to drink on days that ended in Y...

What ended up happening was awful. He lied, stashed bottles. He felt judged and picked fights. I felt disrespected and unloved, and picked fights too.

All this to say, I don't think it matters what they're drinking. And it took me a long time to realize that I couldn't change his behavior, no matter how creative my attempts got. I had to bring the focus back to me; my needs, and more importantly my wants. It meant doing a major (and hard) self-inventory, which also meant not being afraid of admitting some hard truths to myself.

I realize this may not be as direct as you were looking for as an answer...but hopefully you pull something from it.

Take care of yourself. <3

hearthealth

Hi Jessica,
What are you doing for yourself? What are you getting out of this relationship? Have you home to Alanon?

You are micro managing his drinking. That's his role in life. He doesn't have to take responsibility because you have given him the solution. I put money in here and now I can drink and now she wasn't specific on what, where, when. They will always find a way to twist the rules. He's not a five year old that just swore. He is an adult and this is the way he chooses to live his life. Is this what you want for your life? I wish the best for you to find the solution to your life.

atalose

I guess my question would be, why are you treating a grown up adult man with childlike type punishment of having to pay for behavior that you deem is unacceptable?

You are trying to control something you will never have any control over. I would suggest you seek out an al-anon group and also do a lot of research on alcoholism and become familiar with the progression of this disease.

jessicawest

Thank you for the replies.

I have been reading a lot on this topic. And I realise I can not control it. Our relationship is hard to describe. I do love him, but maybe a bit more like a sister loves a brother. I do care for him a lot.

I come with my own baggage. Not alcohol related, but I don't think I have THAT huge attachment to our relationship than he has. I don't want to say I can walk away easily - and for a lot of other reasons I can't really do that now - but I'm coping with how things are now. However, I am scared of what may happen in the future, and I will probably feel extremely guilty for leaving him.

Gosh Actually I have no idea what to do....

SparkleKitty

What can you do? You can accept that he is an alcoholic and all the games and "deals" in the world won't make any difference until and unless HE is ready to change.

You can also start to examine why it would make you feel guilty to walk away from a relationship that is not fulfilling you, why you feel you "owe" it to something external to stick it out regardless. You do neither of you any favors by trying to maintain a relationship that isn't working.

Maudcat

Well, my sib cops a wicked attitude when he gets drunk. Par for the course, I think. My father was the same way.
As others have said before me, you can't control his consumption. You can control your response to it.
If you are not that attached, you are actually in a good position to leave. You probably should. Life with a drinker doesn'tget better as long as they are drinking. It gets worse.

atalose

How a sister loves a brother type relationship………..didn’t this start out as a romantic relationship?

It seems you are finding yourself in an unhappy place in life living with someone who’s behavior is making you feel guilty for not wanting to continue to deal with it, that’s not love!

I would suggest that since you know you are never going to change him, and that his drinking was there before you came into the picture and most likely will be there long after you may leave, work on you and all of your reasons why you feel locked to this relationship. If it’s financial, work on becoming financial independent, if it’s because you live with him, work on becoming independent and living on your own, if it’s because you have a business together, figure out how to get out of that.

jessicawest

Yes it was a romantic relationship for 6 years, many many years ago. The first break up had nothing to do with alcohol.

We are now 13 years later... . and he came back in my life last year. I moved to a totally different place to be with him again. I don't feel that WHOA feeling like I did 13 years ago. I'm not even sure why. I do know that I actually love him, and I care a lot for him.

but you are right, this is not a HAPPY relationship. And the alcohol thing which came as a MASSIVE surprise to me is making it worse. I agree.... Its just so hard to see how someone can destroy his life like this. I want to help, but know I shouldn't even attempt before he is ready...

I was wondering about the change in pattern. Is there anyway to maybe turn this around, but you are all giving me the same answer - I can not control him/his drinking.
I need to find MY happy place. What will happen to him when i leave? That is the question that pops into my mind. I can see him drinking himself to death eventually specially if there is no one around to take care...

Not my problem hey? Easier said than done though.

xx

SparkleKitty

What happened to him before you returned?

I hate to say this, but if he is on a course for drinking himself to death, he will do so whether you are there to witness it or not.

Another good question is, What will happen to him if he actually has to face the consequences of his drinking? If he loses things that are important to him, like you or his health?

You won't save him. At the end of the day, we are all responsible for saving ourselves. It's not cold, it's not selfish;it is the greatest act of self-love and self-respect that we can achieve.

atalose

The reality is……..he already is drinking himself to death and your right there taking care of him, watching him do it and treating him like he’s a child, attempting to punish his bad behavior with financial penalty BUT HE’S STILL DRINKING……….hummm?????

See, that scenario you create in your head is YOUR issues not his. You are NOT his salvation no matter how many times or how you convince yourself you are. BECAUSE if you were, you’d already have his drinking stopped and this wouldn’t even be an issue, right?

There is no magic word, no magic trick, leaving or staying, they are going to do exactly what they wish to do, and that is to drink.

Codependency is the agreement that you are going to work harder on his issues and his life then he is…….

Time to work on YOUR OWN LIFE!!

jessicawest

He was married for a few years. They got divorced a few years ago and he looked me up on social media.

I often wonder what happened during the 13 years. He is extremely successful businesman, working from home though. He is definitely still functioning VERY well from 5am to 5pm during the day. He normally starts his drinking anytime from 4pm.

He is financially well off, he is doing very well in all aspects of his life. Its just the drinking.

Thank you for your support. I was thinking of posting here in the form of a diary as well. That will definitely help me see the REAL picture. And yes I realise, I have to take care of myself first!

Hangnbyathread

My story: Highly condensed and summarized.

I knew little about alcoholism. All I knew was the out of work, panhandling, reeking smell of them. Bleary eyed. Etc.

I met my ex. She had a high stress job, lots of drama in her life, and was a high spirited woman. She claims that was from her Latin family. I accepted that. We started out as friends. In that time she would drink, but not really around me, and I never monitored nor cared how much she drank. But she started to relate stories about how she had to go to company socials and she didn't like going because there was always a lot of drinking and men hitting on her. My ex had at least 6 problems with "sexual harassment" if I believe her stories. And I believe her stories. I have witnessed hostile workplaces and sexual harassment is a big hot button for me. I despise it.

I later found out was all mutual and she was often the aggressor. And it was ALWAYS alcohol related.

But to me she was nice, and I take a story and a person at face value until I have the feeling I need to do otherwise. And we were still friends. More times I hear of alcohol related dramas, all never her fault.

*Poor victim of those jerk men*

Then we started spending more time together. And I began to see the drinking. I asked her to consider not drinking around me as I didn't particularly like drinking to excess around me. To which she began to bristle. Whats wrong with a couple of drinks? She would ask. Making me out to be the problem. I said nothing as long as 2 drinks aren't 2 drinks too many.

She did her best on it, for about 2 months. Then the meanness began to surface. Not mean to me necessarily (yet), but just and underlying mean that started to always seem present. So as soon as a I sensed it, I began to distance myself from her. What's the matter? She'd ask. I don't think we are compatible as friends. Why? Because you seem so angry all the time. Oh thats work. Or Oh thats kids.or.........etc etc. Always a convenient way to explain what I was overthinking in her words. And she's be so sweet and giving and tender, that I'd tell myself I must be the problem. We are just different and I need to learn to embrace that.

So we made a deal. If she wants to go drinking, I don't wish to be around her. Thinking this was a sacrifice she would not want to endure.

Deal She said. (Thinking I'd never follow thru).

So that started the new pattern of distance due to alcohol. And it allowed her to drink on her terms. Until that was no longer enough.

Then she'd drink before getting with me, in hopes that that wouldn't count. She's begin to raise the hostility level. I'm not drinking around you, isn't that what you want? Whats the problem with you?

So we made the same 2 drink deal. I'd tolerate 2 drinks, but that was my limit.

That quickly turned into more hostility. You can drink more than 2 drinks, why can't I? I begin to retaliate back. Because I don't turn into you when I drink. Whats that supposed to mean?

Big fight. Big excuse for her to go out and get drunk.

Etc Etc Etc.

Here is the lesson. As long as the negotiations allow them to continue drinking, you will continue to have problems. Period. Alcohol in any capacity can't happen for them.

Mine decided, that first it was Tequila that was the problem. So no Tequila. Then it was any clear alcohol caused problems. So no more of them. She finally convinced herself that wine wasn't really drinking at all. And she'd go through 10 bottles a weekday and 4 more on weekends. In her mind she was dealing with the problem. This is the way they think.

Just know, they can't drink. If they do, you will be miserable to some depth higher or lower depending on how much drinking they get to have.

Now that I have a "normal" person in my life as a partner, it even makes it more glaring how stupid I was for thinking I'd be able to ever see my ex be normal.

My current g/f, is younger than she was, works in a high stress predominantly male workplace, is more attractive than my ex, and has never had one issue or drama with a male in the workplace. I ask her is she gets uncomfortable going to social events. No. I just stay to myself and say no to any unwelcome choices.

In the early stages of becoming partners you share life stories with one another. My current g/f knows my ex was an alcoholic and the PTSD related aspects of it. She knows that watching someone drink too much doesn't put me in a good place. As a result she has never drank enough to alter her mood or demeanor and she can self regulate how much she drinks. Like normal people can.

And that is the difference between us normal folks and the chemically dependent ones. We have self control, and empathy towards others.

We have been dating exclusively for 6 months now. Never have had a cross word, a misunderstanding, a drama, an external source of stress that causes us to lash out at one another.

In the first 6 months of my ex we had had all of these in multiples.

SmallButMighty

I think one of the hardest things for us codependents to accept is that all our love and efforts lavished on our qualifiers, doesn't help in the least and actually only helps them to keep hurting themselves. It took me years of pain and frustration before I finally understood this.

It's so painful to me now when I see other people still stuck in this rut with alcoholics/addicts/mentally ill people. It's happening in my immediate family yet again. My mother continues to "help" my brother by literally loving (read: enabling) him to what will be his death... which will quite literally kill her. So devastating to watch.

I hope you find a way to live peacefully.

jessicawest

Thank you so much for sharing your story....

I appreciate all the comments here.... Its good to read, read and read more.

I will write our story tonight, then it will make more sense why leaving is not an option now.... I could do with some more insight

Thank you everyone

atalose

What type of insight are you specifically looking for? Insight on alcoholism? Insight on living with an alcoholic? Insight on codependency? Insight on al-anon?

jessicawest

Well the story is as follows:
When we met years ago, we lived 750 miles apart. The first time around I moved to be with him. I lived with him for 2 years out of the 6 year relationship. I have two children from a previous marriage. That time they were 6 and 8 years old/ They had trouble adjusting to the new place/town/environment and life wasn’t easy on any of us. Back then we had also financial trouble, timing wasn’t right, and even though I truly loved him I left to go back to my hometown. The break was hard on us both and it literally took me years to recover.

He was everything I ever wanted. Exceptionally intelligent, kind-hearted, soft-spoken, ambitious. A man with integrity, moral values and also very handsome. I know this all sounds cliché but in my life this was what I always dreamt of. The break up turned my life upside down.

Alcohol was never a problem. We used to have a few drinks on a weekend, but I never was worried about the amount he consumed because it never ever was a problem. There were also times, weeks for instance when we didn’t drink at all, so it never ever crossed my mind that it could become an issue.

We didn’t have any contact after the break up until last year when he contacted me. We met up a few times but it was always over a weekend. Having a few beers, or glasses or wine, but obviously not enough time for me to notice he has a problem.

During our visits, I did notice (And this is maybe where you can help) he has some short term memory issues. Its like he doesn’t remember everything from the previous day, even if we didn’t have that much to drink. I noticed he’d make silly spelling mistakes, and this is SO NOT how I remember him.

Fast forward to where we are now.

My kids are grown. They have their own lives now. To me – having him back in my life – was a miracle. It was something I honestly never thought will happen. To me it was a dream that came true. I made such a fuss about this. People warned me to be careful that 13 years is a long time and people change. I was determined that this time I’m not letting him go again. I NEVER expected this. After my second week here I realised – alcohol is a BIG issue.

About his mental status: He show signs of depression when he isn’t drinking. He has short term memory loss. After having a few drinks he seems to be confused. He easily gets distracted when I talk to him I’ll ask a question and he will answer something totally different. Is this already a sign of brain damage because of the alcohol? I’m trying to figure out how long this has been going on. According to him he worked full time at his office until 2015. He only started working from home January 2016. Working at the office until 5pm or longer tells me he had less time to drink and it only started last year? Is that to soon to show any signs of brain damage?

I know I should not be analyzing this. But to be honest there were more than a few times when I thought #WTF this guy is crazy with things he says that doesn’t have anything to do with the current topic.

My pride prevents me from leaving. I have never been this disappointed in my life. I feel like a massive failure.

Maudcat

Hey, Jessica. You don't give ages, and that's fine. Not asking. The short term memory loss could be from alcohol, could also just be short term memory loss, a consequence of getting older. Only his physician can tell.
It is worrisome, though, isn't it? I can understand your concern.
Well, no big answers forthcoming. I think more will be revealed in time.
In the meantime, this site is a good source of support and advice, if you would like it. Peace.

SparkleKitty

I think we have a tendency to think in terms of sunk costs, like "I invested all this time/energy in this relationship and therefore I have to stick it out until I get my return on that investment." But the problem is we're just sinking more of ourselves into something that isn't paying off. And all the hoping in the world won't change that.

Only a doctor can tell you what's going on with his brain. There's no reliable math for anyone to calculate based on how long his work day is or how much and what he drinks in a day. There is no formula for getting the man you knew 13 years ago back, nor for making him want recovery more than he wants to drink.

One thing I can tell you is that you are not a failure, massive or otherwise. We tend to personalize these things, but he isn't drinking AT you, or BECAUSE of you, or for any reason at all to do with you. He drinks because he is an alcoholic and that is who he is. Until and unless he chooses recovery for himself, his alcoholism will progress. Please do not allow your pride to condemn you to a relationship that prevents you from finding a more fulfilling connection out there in the world. The real failure would be giving up on YOU.

Maudcat

Would leaving necessitate a big move? Just looking for clarity.