I really need some advice
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Ireland
Posts: 300
I really need some advice
Sorry all this is going to be a long one but I would really appreciate some advice.
I responded to a post on the friends and family section called “What it means when a narcissist says I love you” and I can’t stop thinking about it, so much of it rang true to me in relation to my relationship with my sister. I hope it’s ok but I’m reposting here as I am really looking for advice and I am the alcoholic so I think that this may be the appropriate place. I think my sister may be a narcissist, I saw so much of her and our relationship in the article. We share a house (she owns it) and I'm beginning to think that our relationship is toxic and just can't be fixed. For the most part when I arrive home in the evenings she will barely address me. She will say hello, will not even look at me and would never, ever ask how I was or how my day was. I try to make conversation but I literally have to cajole her into speaking. Sometimes I manage to start a conversation but more often than not I get one word answers. Sometimes I just feel so sad and lonely that I can’t even try. Even as I’m typing this I’m realising how ridiculous it sounds. *
I know that when people say that they were hiding their drinking from their family the general response is oh trust me, they know. In this case I know that she doesn’t know because if she did I would be aware of that. I was very fond of staying in hotels so I could drink myself senseless and I did this very often. When I was at home I said that I was doing exams so I would arrive home, pass the time of day with her and then go up to my room to “study”, that is I would drink and then go to bed. I do work related exams fairly often anyway so that was believable. I would never ever leave any evidence behind me and I was functioning, never missed work or anything that would arouse suspicion. I also knew from comments here and there about drinking that she did not suspect that I was an alcoholic. My sister is also very self involved and to be honest most of the time I don’t think I am even on her radar for her to notice.
*
I totally accept that our alcoholism affects our relationships and believe me I take ownership of that. In the past when I have questioned her behaviour and how she treats me I always thought, through befuddled drinking thoughts, that even though I don’t know how it must be my fault. Now with some sobriety, albeit only 12 days, I’m thinking more clearly and beginning to realise that she just treats me badly because she can and I allow it. And yet in the next thought I doubt myself again. I’m really trying to stay on an even keel but it is the thing that causes me the most stress, I try to work it out and understand it constantly but I think potentially I am just overthinking this.
I moved in to save money as like a lot of us I wiped out my finances with drinking. At face value it is the perfect arrangement, where I am costs me significantly less than I was paying in my previous apartment and I pay my sister well over the going rate in rent. Now that I’m not spending a fortune in alcohol I could afford to put aside a decent amount and get myself back to a stable position financially but I’m totally struggling to understand which is the more important. I want to give my sobriety and my recovery* everything I’ve got, should I move out and at least feel like I have somewhere I can call home and chip away at my financial position little by little or should I stay put and sort out my finances entirely? I would have to struggle for a while if I did move but as long as I stay sober I could get back on track in a few months. She is not working at the moment so I also feel guilty considering moving but at the moment it is where I live, it is not a home.
On the odd occasion when we actually have a conversation, if I try to have it out with her she basically reacts as if I’m imagining things and as if I’m asking for special treatment and I’m pretty much dismissed. She makes me feel needy and that’s absolutely not who I am. The thing I have trouble figuring out is why she has such a hold on me and why I care so much what she thinks and go out of my way to try to please her. I mean if I can recognise the behaviour why can't I stop it? Is this co-dependency? She can literally change my mood and make me feel so small in a nano second. In the 12 short days I have been sober I am not exaggerating in saying that every aspect of my life has improved but there is absolutely no improvement here and it’s really getting me down.
Thanks so much for reading and I would really appreciate any advice.
I responded to a post on the friends and family section called “What it means when a narcissist says I love you” and I can’t stop thinking about it, so much of it rang true to me in relation to my relationship with my sister. I hope it’s ok but I’m reposting here as I am really looking for advice and I am the alcoholic so I think that this may be the appropriate place. I think my sister may be a narcissist, I saw so much of her and our relationship in the article. We share a house (she owns it) and I'm beginning to think that our relationship is toxic and just can't be fixed. For the most part when I arrive home in the evenings she will barely address me. She will say hello, will not even look at me and would never, ever ask how I was or how my day was. I try to make conversation but I literally have to cajole her into speaking. Sometimes I manage to start a conversation but more often than not I get one word answers. Sometimes I just feel so sad and lonely that I can’t even try. Even as I’m typing this I’m realising how ridiculous it sounds. *
I know that when people say that they were hiding their drinking from their family the general response is oh trust me, they know. In this case I know that she doesn’t know because if she did I would be aware of that. I was very fond of staying in hotels so I could drink myself senseless and I did this very often. When I was at home I said that I was doing exams so I would arrive home, pass the time of day with her and then go up to my room to “study”, that is I would drink and then go to bed. I do work related exams fairly often anyway so that was believable. I would never ever leave any evidence behind me and I was functioning, never missed work or anything that would arouse suspicion. I also knew from comments here and there about drinking that she did not suspect that I was an alcoholic. My sister is also very self involved and to be honest most of the time I don’t think I am even on her radar for her to notice.
*
I totally accept that our alcoholism affects our relationships and believe me I take ownership of that. In the past when I have questioned her behaviour and how she treats me I always thought, through befuddled drinking thoughts, that even though I don’t know how it must be my fault. Now with some sobriety, albeit only 12 days, I’m thinking more clearly and beginning to realise that she just treats me badly because she can and I allow it. And yet in the next thought I doubt myself again. I’m really trying to stay on an even keel but it is the thing that causes me the most stress, I try to work it out and understand it constantly but I think potentially I am just overthinking this.
I moved in to save money as like a lot of us I wiped out my finances with drinking. At face value it is the perfect arrangement, where I am costs me significantly less than I was paying in my previous apartment and I pay my sister well over the going rate in rent. Now that I’m not spending a fortune in alcohol I could afford to put aside a decent amount and get myself back to a stable position financially but I’m totally struggling to understand which is the more important. I want to give my sobriety and my recovery* everything I’ve got, should I move out and at least feel like I have somewhere I can call home and chip away at my financial position little by little or should I stay put and sort out my finances entirely? I would have to struggle for a while if I did move but as long as I stay sober I could get back on track in a few months. She is not working at the moment so I also feel guilty considering moving but at the moment it is where I live, it is not a home.
On the odd occasion when we actually have a conversation, if I try to have it out with her she basically reacts as if I’m imagining things and as if I’m asking for special treatment and I’m pretty much dismissed. She makes me feel needy and that’s absolutely not who I am. The thing I have trouble figuring out is why she has such a hold on me and why I care so much what she thinks and go out of my way to try to please her. I mean if I can recognise the behaviour why can't I stop it? Is this co-dependency? She can literally change my mood and make me feel so small in a nano second. In the 12 short days I have been sober I am not exaggerating in saying that every aspect of my life has improved but there is absolutely no improvement here and it’s really getting me down.
Thanks so much for reading and I would really appreciate any advice.
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,435
I think 12 days sober is probably too short a time to make any definite conclusions about relationships, Cara.
Your sister may be a narcissist, she might be not very nice...she could also be reacting to you as the active alcoholic you've been for a while (I don't think any of us is as good at hiding the evidence as we think we are) or she might just be having a bad week.
I'm not trying to beat you up or excuse any bad behaviour on behalf of your sister.
If you really find the situation intolerable and detrimental to your recovery then your course is clear - but with a little more recovery time I think you'll be able to trust your own perceptions more and make good decisions based on those perceptions - but 12 days may be too soon to do that?
I was a million different people my first 90 days - massive mood swings - but once they settled down I saw things more clearly than I had in years..
Your sister may see the changes in you and react in a positive way - you never know
D
Your sister may be a narcissist, she might be not very nice...she could also be reacting to you as the active alcoholic you've been for a while (I don't think any of us is as good at hiding the evidence as we think we are) or she might just be having a bad week.
I'm not trying to beat you up or excuse any bad behaviour on behalf of your sister.
If you really find the situation intolerable and detrimental to your recovery then your course is clear - but with a little more recovery time I think you'll be able to trust your own perceptions more and make good decisions based on those perceptions - but 12 days may be too soon to do that?
I was a million different people my first 90 days - massive mood swings - but once they settled down I saw things more clearly than I had in years..
Your sister may see the changes in you and react in a positive way - you never know
D
2/2016
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Texas
Posts: 582
Honestly, I think you need to take the focus off of your sister and focus only on you. You have a problem. You drink too much and you do it secretly.
I hear what you are saying, you are not treated well. Move past that for now. Get a clear head and perceptions, months of sobriety. That will give you confidence and lots of self-love. Very little of what your sister does or doesn't do will affect you. You are still new to sobriety and you emotions will be all over the place if my experiences are any guide.
Work on your problem first. Congrats on the 12 days so far. It is so worth it, giving up the drink. It can be done, and this place is a great place to get support.
I hear what you are saying, you are not treated well. Move past that for now. Get a clear head and perceptions, months of sobriety. That will give you confidence and lots of self-love. Very little of what your sister does or doesn't do will affect you. You are still new to sobriety and you emotions will be all over the place if my experiences are any guide.
Work on your problem first. Congrats on the 12 days so far. It is so worth it, giving up the drink. It can be done, and this place is a great place to get support.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Wareham, Mass
Posts: 7,067
Congratulations on 12 days, Cara. Keep it up. I would, as Dee the wise and HTown have said, keep my sobriety squarely in front of me. Staying sober after many years of drinking is a big job, and will take everything you have at first. Let the family stuff go for a bit. Peace.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Northwest U.S.
Posts: 778
Hi Cara. Great job so far! 12 days is a tremendous start to a sober life. You've made it through some of the most difficult days. Protect your sobriety now, with whatever it takes! I agree with Dee and others that you should, to the extent possible, avoid making big changes right now. Give it more time, focus your thoughts and energy inward, and make your sobriety your highest priority. Good luck!
Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 25,373
In my first couple months it was all I could do to get through the day without being yanked off in one direction or another emotionally. I also made it my #1 priority to not pick up a drink and that meant not getting myself worked up.
I agree with everyone else. Focus on yourself and work this all out later. Much later. One day at a time right now, focus on staying calm and not drinking.
I agree with everyone else. Focus on yourself and work this all out later. Much later. One day at a time right now, focus on staying calm and not drinking.
Giving up is NOT an option.
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Western Wisconsin
Posts: 7,808
I agree with all of the above advice to not make any big changes right now. Early sobriety is a volatile time. Work on getting some solid footing in sobriety. Try to think of your sister as an inconvenient roommate for now, if that helps you to let go of the emotions her behavior stirs up in you. And like others have said, you have no control over her, you only have control over how you react. As you begin to feel better about yourself, her behavior will probably matter less to you. And, if after a few months, you are still sober and on better financial footing, you can move into your own place. Or it might be possible that your relationship with her will improve to the point you won't need to. Give it some time.
Guest
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 928
I don't really have any advice for you, but I do know what it's like to have emotionally immature, narcissistic siblings. I have used it as an excuse to drink as well. Just remember that your sobriety is top priority. I have to remember that myself. Hang in there.
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Dancing in the Light
Posts: 61,502
Cara, you've gotten good advice here. My initial clarity when I stopped drinking, changed considerably over the next months and year. I think it might be a good idea to give yourself a little more time. My suggestion is to remove your expectations of your sister and focus on your recovery. Congratulations on 12 days of recovery!
Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Midwest
Posts: 9,029
I'd add my voice to those saying to focus on yourself and staying sober instead of your relationship with your sister. There could be any number of things bothering her or nothing at all. But that's her, not you.
I know it's hard to live in an environment in which you aren't comfortable but it doesn't sound as if she's actively trying to make you miserable. Maybe all it needs is a change in your own perception. I absolutely hated some strictures placed upon me at work but the longer I thought about it, the more I came to realize that the same things I hated were things that were helping me stay sober.
You have a warm dry bed and a roof over your head. You have privacy and a shower and a bathroom. Look to the positives for now. Hold onto that. I'd opt for saving money and knowing that there is someone else in the home. If you got your own place would you be as inclined to stay sober? The extra financial stress would do me in.
Hang in there and good job on 12 days.
I know it's hard to live in an environment in which you aren't comfortable but it doesn't sound as if she's actively trying to make you miserable. Maybe all it needs is a change in your own perception. I absolutely hated some strictures placed upon me at work but the longer I thought about it, the more I came to realize that the same things I hated were things that were helping me stay sober.
You have a warm dry bed and a roof over your head. You have privacy and a shower and a bathroom. Look to the positives for now. Hold onto that. I'd opt for saving money and knowing that there is someone else in the home. If you got your own place would you be as inclined to stay sober? The extra financial stress would do me in.
Hang in there and good job on 12 days.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Western NY
Posts: 1,209
Cara - I can't offer any advice, but I do have some personal experience to share.
I lived with someone for a number of years that I thought was a narcissist. I studied extensively on the subject, and had a series of phone calls with a psychologist to try to diagnose her. My plan was to diagnose her and try to treat her myself. The doctor informed me that even a PHD wouldn't be able to diagnose someone with narcissism that they had an close relationship with. He went on to explain that it would be impossible for someone to be objective under those circumstances. Ultimately, my plan failed entirely, and I wasted countless days of my life trying to fix someone else.
I made the decision to break with that person for good very early in recovery. It was probably around 14 days in. I don't regret the decision at all, and I shudder at the thought of not having taken that step to remove her from my life. Some people counseled me against making that decision, but I knew deep down what I had to do.
A big part of my recovery was learning how to stick up for myself. I didn't wait until some magic amount of time to pass before I started working on that. People treat me much better today because I don't allow them to treat me like **** any more.
I lived with someone for a number of years that I thought was a narcissist. I studied extensively on the subject, and had a series of phone calls with a psychologist to try to diagnose her. My plan was to diagnose her and try to treat her myself. The doctor informed me that even a PHD wouldn't be able to diagnose someone with narcissism that they had an close relationship with. He went on to explain that it would be impossible for someone to be objective under those circumstances. Ultimately, my plan failed entirely, and I wasted countless days of my life trying to fix someone else.
I made the decision to break with that person for good very early in recovery. It was probably around 14 days in. I don't regret the decision at all, and I shudder at the thought of not having taken that step to remove her from my life. Some people counseled me against making that decision, but I knew deep down what I had to do.
A big part of my recovery was learning how to stick up for myself. I didn't wait until some magic amount of time to pass before I started working on that. People treat me much better today because I don't allow them to treat me like **** any more.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Welshman living in Cork, Ireland
Posts: 737
Hi Cara,
I absolutely agree with all the advice that's been proffered above and they all break down to don't make any rash decisions. As addicts, we crave instant gratification and acceptance. I think it strange that in active addiction we are incredibly selfish and self centered yet many of us are definite people-pleasers!
Maybe your sister has a whole myriad of issues, maybe she is a narcissist who knows? But they are her issues. Don't think it's your fault, and don't expect anything from her.
Your sobriety is your priority. No 1 above everything. Own it and don't let ANYTHING get in the way of success.
I know that I feel that everything is about me in my early sobriety days. I'm overly sensitive to all sorts of things and situations that have absolutely nothing to do with me and my "struggle". For example, if I post something on SR and nobody responds, my reaction (probably that beastie boy AV) is to think that the whole community of SR has read my post and they think I'm stupid. Nonsense, of course, but it goes to show how fragile I am.
So, hang in there girl.Don't make any rash decisions (we're not thinking "properly" yet.) and your sisters behaviour in all likelihood is not about you.
Oh no, now I know that SR will close down for a while!
I absolutely agree with all the advice that's been proffered above and they all break down to don't make any rash decisions. As addicts, we crave instant gratification and acceptance. I think it strange that in active addiction we are incredibly selfish and self centered yet many of us are definite people-pleasers!
Maybe your sister has a whole myriad of issues, maybe she is a narcissist who knows? But they are her issues. Don't think it's your fault, and don't expect anything from her.
Your sobriety is your priority. No 1 above everything. Own it and don't let ANYTHING get in the way of success.
I know that I feel that everything is about me in my early sobriety days. I'm overly sensitive to all sorts of things and situations that have absolutely nothing to do with me and my "struggle". For example, if I post something on SR and nobody responds, my reaction (probably that beastie boy AV) is to think that the whole community of SR has read my post and they think I'm stupid. Nonsense, of course, but it goes to show how fragile I am.
So, hang in there girl.Don't make any rash decisions (we're not thinking "properly" yet.) and your sisters behaviour in all likelihood is not about you.
Oh no, now I know that SR will close down for a while!
Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Welshman living in Cork, Ireland
Posts: 737
Originally Posted by biminiblue 
Nice to see you, Sparkos. 
Last edited by Sparkos; 01-12-2017 at 11:01 AM. Reason: wording
12 Step Recovered Alcoholic
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 6,613
They say every alcoholic affects at least ten people around them. It is not just the drunkeness, but the lack of emotional availability also. It is possible your sister has been hurt by your illness, and she may take a long time to get over it. Does she behave this way just to you, or is it to everyone?
Aspergers is another possibility. I sponsored a man with similar behaviours and he had mild aspergers.
As others have said, your sobriety must come first. In AA when someone treats us badly we recognise that the person might be unwell, so we try and extend the same tolerance we would show a sick person, and ask god to keep us from being angry.
Aspergers is another possibility. I sponsored a man with similar behaviours and he had mild aspergers.
As others have said, your sobriety must come first. In AA when someone treats us badly we recognise that the person might be unwell, so we try and extend the same tolerance we would show a sick person, and ask god to keep us from being angry.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Ireland
Posts: 300
I wasn't sure this morning whether or not to post this but I am so very glad that I did.
Thanks so much for the much needed perspective and for making me realise that it is far too early to make these decisions. If I'm being honest I have to admit that I do feel like I'm on a rollercoaster emotionally right now and everything seems so raw. It does feel better though to have actually voiced it and I recognise that I can't control her behaviour and only my own. I'm just going to continue to be open to engage from now on and focus on staying sober and who knows maybe it will improve. The whole situation though was just taking over my thoughts and my fear was that I would interfere with what I should be giving all my attention to which is my recovery, thanks to you guys I know what I nend to do and can stop second guessing myself. I appreciate as well that I'm lucky in comparison to the living situations that some are trying to stay sober in.
Sorry I can't seem to manage the multiple quote thing but thanks so much to each and everyone of you, I would be lost without SR.
Thanks so much for the much needed perspective and for making me realise that it is far too early to make these decisions. If I'm being honest I have to admit that I do feel like I'm on a rollercoaster emotionally right now and everything seems so raw. It does feel better though to have actually voiced it and I recognise that I can't control her behaviour and only my own. I'm just going to continue to be open to engage from now on and focus on staying sober and who knows maybe it will improve. The whole situation though was just taking over my thoughts and my fear was that I would interfere with what I should be giving all my attention to which is my recovery, thanks to you guys I know what I nend to do and can stop second guessing myself. I appreciate as well that I'm lucky in comparison to the living situations that some are trying to stay sober in.
Sorry I can't seem to manage the multiple quote thing but thanks so much to each and everyone of you, I would be lost without SR.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: California
Posts: 1,914
So much good advice here.
Family relationships are hard. Especially for us alcoholics. I don't know what issues stem from them and what issues stem from my drinking and the way I acted during it, whether they knew I was drinking or not. I know I'm a different, better person when I'm sober. I know I want to improve relationships with my family members. I think of all the years I put myself and my drinking first, and I feel like I need to give it a long time to expect anything to change. If I've been acting a certain way towards them for 15 years, in all likely hood it could be another 15 before they trust the new me. It also could be partly issues on their behalf, and it may never change.
All you can do it be the best version of yourself you can be. Family and everyone else can take it or leave it, but if you're happy with yourself that's really all we can ask for.
Family relationships are hard. Especially for us alcoholics. I don't know what issues stem from them and what issues stem from my drinking and the way I acted during it, whether they knew I was drinking or not. I know I'm a different, better person when I'm sober. I know I want to improve relationships with my family members. I think of all the years I put myself and my drinking first, and I feel like I need to give it a long time to expect anything to change. If I've been acting a certain way towards them for 15 years, in all likely hood it could be another 15 before they trust the new me. It also could be partly issues on their behalf, and it may never change.
All you can do it be the best version of yourself you can be. Family and everyone else can take it or leave it, but if you're happy with yourself that's really all we can ask for.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 3,550
I concur in what Dee said. Give it a little more time. Try to develop more self reliance and shift the focus away from your sister. The important person is you and your sobriety. And you should be in charge of that, not her. And you don't need her "approval". Focus on yourself, one day at a time, easy does it. Seek support from other recovering alcoholics with more sobriety. It's like exercise. Take easy steps at first and then as time goes on get better at it. Shift your focus away from your sister. Move out, if necessary, but a little bit later perhaps. Good luck.
W.
W.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 3,550
P.S. Perhaps it's saying the same thing over again but, from the viewpoint of so called "transactional analysis", it may be that your sister is, consciously or subconsciously, assuming the role of "parent" to your "child" rather than attempting to relate to you as "adult to adult", a relationship made more difficult in the past by your alcoholism. With sobriety you may be able to help normalize this distorted relationship but it will take time. You can help by not drinking and by trying to develop self reliance, weaning yourself from any dependence in your relationship to her.
W.
W.
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