Lizzieloulou

I have been reading some really interesting posts here, and a few mention the fact that alcoholics only ever think about themselves, and that they are innately selfish. I must say that my experience of my AH is just that...I also appreciate the sentiments expressed about how they make everything your fault...mine sure does! So my question is...Are they THIS selfish as sober people...Or are they just generally not nice people? I don't think I even love mine anymore...Just attached: and I certainly don't like him much...Selfish thoughts and acts, and an apparent disdain for any person who is subject to adversity...Ironic I should say!!!

SparkleKitty

I think an alcoholic is as likely to be a selfish person sober as anyone else. I am not sure there is any point to generalizing or imaging what the A's in our lives would be like if and when they find sobriety.

I do think addiction is selfish. Addiction makes people want to protect the addiction above everything else. I also think it's illogical, and that trying to apply logic to addiction is pretty fruitless.

I think the best we can ever do with others in our lives is strive to accept them for Who They Are Right Now, not Who They Might Be If..., or Who We Wish They Were, or Who They Might Be Deep Down Inside. Only when we can accept them can we make the best decisions for ourselves about what to do.

hearthealth

I can only speak for my husband. He's not drunk 24/7 but he's self centered 24/7. It's his choices not his beer.

BrendaChenowyth

Addicts seem to be self-involved. They are unable to think about the impact of their choices and behaviors on other people because their addiction consumes all of their mental energy. Everything that they do serves the purpose of sustaining their addiction. They are at all times under the influence of their addiction. They are not acting out of a me-first, everyone else second, attitude. It's addiction first, everything else last. It crowds out the ability to consider other people's needs, including their own. Because if we were able to consider our own needs while under the influence of addiction we would stop using.

In truth, addiction is a state of self-abuse, of self-abandonment.. The addict finally says enough is enough, not because their money is gone, or their relationships are destroyed, but because they look in the mirror and see someone they don't know anymore.. Someone that hurts and abuses them..

And in recovery we are able to look back at all the pain our addiction caused.. and many of us, instead of having compassion because we were terribly sick and had no control over what we were, take complete personal responsibility for it and it continues to destroy us.. we continue to receive the message we were selfish..

teatreeoil007

It was once described to me that what "hooks" an addict onto a substance is when they discover under the influence an altered state of thinking/feeling....the 'high' or sweet spot or whatever you want to call it makes them feel so good---as if they have discovered a new "friend" that makes them feel better; perhaps better than they have in a very long time or better than they can remember. For a person who has been very unhappy for a time or cannot remember what it is like to be happy...when they get that 'feel-good' they want it to continue. But, the high wears off and they find their self craving it again and again and again. In my mind it's about wanting to feel good...and perhaps they are so miserable, they'll do anything to feel better, even if it's only a temporary state. As they become truly chemically dependent, it's not just a matter of chasing the high, but trying to avoid the "low" and the void that is created after the high; the high becomes more elusive; the lows are lower....then life becomes all about feeding the addiction; maintaining it. They figure out ways to keep it going so as to avoid not. It's amazing what they will do to feed the addiction. If it's more money they need to buy the substance, they somehow find ways to make more money; to procure the substance.

It's not the alcohol that makes the person behave selfishly; it's the addiction. Having said that, I know plenty of non-addicts who are selfish. I don't judge them for it. It think everyone has a degree of selfishness. Even some people who appear unselfish can be selfish.

LexieCat

Some people, as SparkeKitty points out, are selfish and sober. Including those who never had a drinking problem. Addiction does tend to make almost everyone selfish. I think how soon they become not-selfish (or less selfish) after getting sober depends on how long they drank alcoholically, and from what age (people tend to get "stuck" at whatever emotional stage they were at when they start drinking--people who start later in life might have a less difficult time returning to responsible behavior), as well as whether they are working a program (such as AA) that TEACHES consideration for the interests of others.

Some of the kindest, most thoughtful and generous people I know are sober alcoholics. They weren't that way when they were drinking...

Gumball

My AH is less selfish and more considerate sober. Drunk however, he is a selfish, inconsiderate and obnoxious person. He goes from a listening attentive man to me me me! So from my experience it makes him selfish while using.

TobeC

This is what I have noticed too. In my case, I was only selfish with my time when it came to drinking. I had to get in every night from 8:30 to 9:30 no matter what. So, if we were out, I was planning my escape from anything we were doing so I could get home to have my standard three drinks and then go to bed. In my opinion, I was more of a thief than a selfish person . I stole time from my wife and kids that I will never get back. I do think being selfish is a core part of alcoholic behavior but I think it can be like a lot of things there are degrees from the extreme to the slight but it sure is there. In other words, I don't think there is a stereotypical alcoholic and we all differ from person to person .

hearthealth

I think this is true for all people. I could all spend more time with my family and my own life.

August252015

Yep, me too. And it has been pretty great to hear others describe me with these kinds of words. I'd certainly use ones like them to describe my (in recovery) boyfriend and my sponsor and other outstanding people I have met in AA. There are also plenty of selfish, self-absorbed, jerks and what have you in the rooms/as alcoholics.

I think the concept of selfishness is intimately linked with the focus on the other - AA step 12, service- as a present and consistent and conscious choice on the recovering alcoholic's part. Selfishness isn't part of that equation; what we were like when we were drinking becomes....just that.

Forward12

Many people are just selfish in general regardless if they are drinkers or not. Though being an active alcoholic can make you selfish as you feel as if you are at the mercy of alcohol, and it's the only thing in life that matters.

dandylion

August252015......when I first learned about alcoholism...it was through working with several long recovering alcoholics....like, many, many years of recovery....
They were the opposite of selfish...they were compassionate, and humble, and honest....especially, honest!
I was working with them as a part of the staff on a psychiatric unit...They were not only co-workers...they also, became my personal friends...
Also, they would, sometimes, describe, to me...some of the things they did before they entered genuine recovery......Some of their stories made my hair stand on end!! If I had met them, while they were using...I probably would not have had anything to do with them!

One think that I did learn, from them was this....that their sobriety was their number o ne priority...above all else...always!

I truly came to love them.....

jojo82

big book page 62

knowthetriggers

My AH is sober and yes, he can still be very selfish and self-centered; however not only has his support system pointed this out to him but he is slowly starting to recognize this in himself on his own and says he wants to change.

Recovery and change takes hard work, but you have to want it otherwise you never change.

Just my two cents,
KTT

NYCDoglvr

AA founder Bill Wilson describes alcoholics as being self-centered in the extreme, selfish and grandiose. His majesty the child. I've been sober 25 years and have tools to deal with those issues but they do pop up from time to time. In a meeting I heard someone describe it as the "M&M disease" -- "Me and More".

LittleM66

In my years of dealing with an alcoholic friend (and employer) i find their behaviour extremely selfish. What really hacks me off is for 16yrs i have kept her business running, given up a lot of my private time to meet with the PROPS team, gone to meetings with her, ive gone back to work months earlier than i should have after cancer cos i had her ringing me up every night drunk cos she couldnt cope,never had a full week off work in 11 years cos i everytime i try to take hols she gets drunk and i end up having to go to work, i take on extra staff to make sure her business runs smoothly only for her to rock up on her sober weeks and let them go, then she gets drunk so i have to start the whole process again of running around like a bloody idiot sorting it all out again. She has beautiful grandchildren but chooses drink or she stays sober so she can have them stay the night but when theyre with her she drinks, a woman feeding a 3 month old baby whilst drunk is not a pretty sight, she drives her car whilst being incapable of walking! Best of it is though when she was on a sober week she rang the law on one of the women in her group cos she thought she was DD! I could go on forever! But i wont all i know is these last 16yrs have been so hard, i wont ever turn my back on her cos she's my friend above all else but i am at breaking point with my patience, perhaps if she stopped being so self absorbed and hiding from real life she might learn a few things, by the way i can get with the addiction i was nearly there myself through my own selfishness, but my daughter summed it up one day for me 'mam you beat cancer, why the hell are you letting alcohol kill you instead!'

Smarie78

I think that there are some tendencies of personalities that go hand in hand with addiction. We all know the stereotype of the alcoholic wife beater, or the alcoholic cheater. But it doesn't mean that if you are an A you will also do those things. So if you are an alcoholic does it mean that you are automatically a selfish person in general, even when sober? I have only known my Abf as an addict, with no real length of sobriety - sure there are dry periods but they don't last. As I know him to be today, when he is drinking, or even dry drinking, he is incredibly selfish (though it is subtle and not always an in your face selfishness). While he is overall an extremely affectionate and loving man when he is not drinking, he still must maintain a selfishness in order to continue and keep his pain at bay. I see it evident everyday in everything he does. He will love you to the ends of the earth and step in front of a moving car for you, but he will lie to you in order to drink. He will break his promises in order to drink. He will violate you in order to drink. He will curse at you and lash out when you start to grow and improve your life because it threatens the safety net for him. He will even find someone else to make him feel safe if you are not available because he cannot handle the thought of being alone. That in itself is selfish. He is unable to stop and think about how his actions impact others. Or if he does, he does not care because getting his fix is the most important thing. But that is in and of itself the root of addiction. It's why they drink because they simply cannot handle and cope with the world around them. In order to cope with the world around you, you cannot be a selfish person.

At the end of the day though, it doesn't really matter what causes someone to be selfish does it? If we blame it on the addiction does it make them any less responsible for their selfish behavior? I sometimes spend a lot of time analyzing the addict in my life, but there are moments when his behaviors, regardless of what causes them, are still behaviors that are unacceptable.

LittleM66

what if you feel that the level of drunkeness is selective, selfishness in itself or manipulation.....i best explain if i can what i mean, if you ask are you coming to work today bearing in mind that it is the A's own business, its usually an incoherrent reply, however if the cash takings of the business are mentioned then the result is usually a pretty sober reply, if there was a 1p unaccounted for theres nearly a stewards enquiry, but she cant remember buying that bottle of vodka

Pathwaytofree

When I drank, I was "selfish" because I wanted people to act the way I wanted them to act, so that I would feel comfortable. It's a different way of viewing what "selfish" means. Our selfish and self-centeredness was all based on fear and lack of faith. It's not selfishness in a traditional way of viewing the word.

When I stopped drinking, I was still selfish and self-centered, with no self-awareness I was being this way. I wasn't manipulative, but I did behave in ways that weren't healthy ways to behave or react.

I was a good person then and I'm still a good person. But I had to change and grow. I wasn't a bad person trying to become good, I was a sick person who got well.

When I followed directions and worked a spiritual program of recovery, I saw my ways of acting and thinking in black and white, and with humility, asked my Higher Power to help rid me of them.

I am no longer spiritually selfish and self-centered. Was I selfish and self-centered at my core? No. No one's authentic healthy self is selfish and self-centered. But we did act alcoholically before we ever picked up our first drink. Having recovered, it's my responsibility now every day to watch for when these traits crop back up, as it's human nature. But today I have tools to resolve them.

Pathwaytofree

Compassionate, humble, and honest isn't something we fake, act as if, or practice. It's our true authentic self. It appears once we come out the other side of our step work. We become unblocked from our fears and self-will run riot, and are re-connected to our Higher Power who I choose to call God.