Advice?
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Join Date: Dec 2016
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Advice?
My AW went on a "wine night" as she used to call them, which consisted of her, her sister and friends basically getting drunk on a girls night in whilst the hosts other half would make themselves scarce for the evening (me being this person occasionally). This in itself i never really had a problem with until the last one she went on. She went out as usual and she would normally return at about 1-2 am, but on this occasion she wasn't home by 3 so i tried to ring as i was worried that she may have hurt herself on the way home as she would usually get legless drunk and struggle with the key in the door so i would have to open it. When i rang my AW there was no response and i kept trying her until 630am when i was able to find her sisters home number who was hosting the party. i rung her sister and her Husband answered, he said she is staying here. I was so angry as i had been so worried. I said i want to speak to her now, he said she is sleeping and without holding back i suggest he go wake her up. i spoke to her on the phone and she said she would come home as soon as she can (via a taxi).
She turns up with her sisters trousers on and her Jeans in a bag saying she wet her own as she was so drunk, but in 15 years she has never done this and i have seen her in some states. I asked why she didn't ring me or let me know what she was doing and she said she wasn't capable. I asked if my sister in laws Husband (vane bodybuilder) had brought some of his friends back as it is something that he would do. She said no, no one else was there. She however slipped up a couple of weeks later when she was telling me that her sister was going out with her husband and one of his mates "the one with all the tattoos", i said when have you met some of his friends as her sisters relationship at the time was quite new and when ever she had been at her sister since they had been together i had been with her, after a long pause she admitted that they were there that night. I hit the roof. She claims to this day that nothing happened but i suppose she has nothing to gain by saying anything else.
That was 4 years ago and it still effects me now as i am a very faithful and honest person, i have been the entire time we have been together. i never pushed it at the time as i honestly didn't want to hear any other answer than she had done nothing wrong. Mainly because if she did admit it i could not stay with her and my son was only 3 at the time and he wouldn't have a clue who i was whilst he was growing up.
I have so much resentment for how she acted that evening and would love someone else`s opinion on the subject as i felt i couldn't tell family since they would dislike her or friends for the same reason, so have just been holding it in for the past 4 years. When ever i have brought it up she gets angry with me and says if i cant accept what she is saying then we may as well split up. i feel this ultimatum is unfair and she is trying to deflect it all on me.
If someone else other half had done this:-
what conclusion do you think had happened (i.e cheated or not)?
how would you of handled it or handle the situation now?
She turns up with her sisters trousers on and her Jeans in a bag saying she wet her own as she was so drunk, but in 15 years she has never done this and i have seen her in some states. I asked why she didn't ring me or let me know what she was doing and she said she wasn't capable. I asked if my sister in laws Husband (vane bodybuilder) had brought some of his friends back as it is something that he would do. She said no, no one else was there. She however slipped up a couple of weeks later when she was telling me that her sister was going out with her husband and one of his mates "the one with all the tattoos", i said when have you met some of his friends as her sisters relationship at the time was quite new and when ever she had been at her sister since they had been together i had been with her, after a long pause she admitted that they were there that night. I hit the roof. She claims to this day that nothing happened but i suppose she has nothing to gain by saying anything else.
That was 4 years ago and it still effects me now as i am a very faithful and honest person, i have been the entire time we have been together. i never pushed it at the time as i honestly didn't want to hear any other answer than she had done nothing wrong. Mainly because if she did admit it i could not stay with her and my son was only 3 at the time and he wouldn't have a clue who i was whilst he was growing up.
I have so much resentment for how she acted that evening and would love someone else`s opinion on the subject as i felt i couldn't tell family since they would dislike her or friends for the same reason, so have just been holding it in for the past 4 years. When ever i have brought it up she gets angry with me and says if i cant accept what she is saying then we may as well split up. i feel this ultimatum is unfair and she is trying to deflect it all on me.
If someone else other half had done this:-
what conclusion do you think had happened (i.e cheated or not)?
how would you of handled it or handle the situation now?
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Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Wareham, Mass
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So. There is a lot of stuff going on. Your wife is alcohol-dependent and has been, from your posts, for a long time. You suspect that she may have been unfaithful during a drinking session with one of your bil's friends. She has been incontinent at least once during this time.
None of this is good. Alcohol dependency is progressive. It will get worse. You are feeling very resentful abut several things. And probably feeling out of control.
Do you have support? Al-Anon is a group for friends and families who are bothered by a loved one's drinking. Could be helpful and provide clarity re your situation.
I would also read the stickies provided at the top of this site's main menu. Lots of good info there about the effect of alcoholism on the family of a drinker.
Good luck. Keep posting. Great support here.
None of this is good. Alcohol dependency is progressive. It will get worse. You are feeling very resentful abut several things. And probably feeling out of control.
Do you have support? Al-Anon is a group for friends and families who are bothered by a loved one's drinking. Could be helpful and provide clarity re your situation.
I would also read the stickies provided at the top of this site's main menu. Lots of good info there about the effect of alcoholism on the family of a drinker.
Good luck. Keep posting. Great support here.
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Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Iowa
Posts: 3,050
If you had definitive proof that something had happened 4 years ago, what would that mean to you? How would that impact your decision making, if at all?
That was one of the ways I used to make myself crazy in my alcoholic relationship. I'd spin my wheels and focus on what he did when he was drunk, stuff that he couldn't remember, so I could have a "gotcha!" moment. And feel superior to him. And get all angry and hurt about how he was treating me. I was the victim in the whole situation, don't you know, putting up with all of his drunken crap behavior while I kept everything running as smoothly as possible.
Al Anon really helped me to examine my patterns of behavior and thinking that kept me stuck in that cycle of victimhood. Living in chaos meant that I could go through life on autopilot, just automatically respond or react to everything without much real thought. He did X, so I had to do Y.
It was an exhausting way to live. Glad you're reaching out for help. I wish I had done that sooner.
That was one of the ways I used to make myself crazy in my alcoholic relationship. I'd spin my wheels and focus on what he did when he was drunk, stuff that he couldn't remember, so I could have a "gotcha!" moment. And feel superior to him. And get all angry and hurt about how he was treating me. I was the victim in the whole situation, don't you know, putting up with all of his drunken crap behavior while I kept everything running as smoothly as possible.
Al Anon really helped me to examine my patterns of behavior and thinking that kept me stuck in that cycle of victimhood. Living in chaos meant that I could go through life on autopilot, just automatically respond or react to everything without much real thought. He did X, so I had to do Y.
It was an exhausting way to live. Glad you're reaching out for help. I wish I had done that sooner.
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: W Washington
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4 years is a long time to hold a resentment for something that may or may not have happened. they say having a resentment is like drinking poison, hoping it affects the other person.
right now is where your focus needs to be. what do YOU want? and how can you GET there without expecting one single thing from her? you have the right to make choices in your own best interests. to seek the help and healing you need. it's also a good time to examine the "relationship" - look hard at what you are trying to hold on to. sometimes we hold on just to hold on. and later realize there was nothing there.
addicts and all the hoo hah that goes along with them tend to take up all the space, become the center of the universe. it's time for less HER and more YOU.
right now is where your focus needs to be. what do YOU want? and how can you GET there without expecting one single thing from her? you have the right to make choices in your own best interests. to seek the help and healing you need. it's also a good time to examine the "relationship" - look hard at what you are trying to hold on to. sometimes we hold on just to hold on. and later realize there was nothing there.
addicts and all the hoo hah that goes along with them tend to take up all the space, become the center of the universe. it's time for less HER and more YOU.
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Join Date: Dec 2016
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Thank you all for your feedback, help and good advice, i really appreciate it.
Lady - I don't wish to feel superior i suppose it would mean to me that i would know and more the person i am married to and the feelings/ consideration they have for me. To me if you love someone and are married to them you don't do that whether you are an alcoholic or not. I know their brains are wired differently but do they not know what they are doing when drunk? I know that i am no angel in life but Ive been out and got very drunk and never considered not coming home. I totally agree it is exhausting to worry about someone all the time and wish for peace/ stillness in my mind
Maud - i dont know if she had been incontinent or not, that was her explanation for the reason why her clothes were wet and she had a pair of her sisters trousers on. All i know is that she has never been before it or since. Your right it definitely is progressive, i have been thinking back a lot recently to when it all started and i have no idea. Maybe that's because it was always there, but in smaller amounts.
Anvil - Thank you for you good advice and wise words. I guess i have only held it for 4 years (even though that has only come to the forefront recently) as until now i have never told another person and was just wanting opinions on the matter as to how it would seem to them. She has been able to talk to her sister about it ,mainly to ask what happened as she cant fully remember. She has always tried to belittle the fact that i am bothered by it and thinks that i should not be. I do agree that i need to focus my attention on myself for the enforceable future and that is what i plan to do. i have told her that this will be happening and to be honest that i believe that she should focus solely on herself so she can heal.
I do feel a slight amount of closer to the fact that i have been able to let it out to someone.
Lady - I don't wish to feel superior i suppose it would mean to me that i would know and more the person i am married to and the feelings/ consideration they have for me. To me if you love someone and are married to them you don't do that whether you are an alcoholic or not. I know their brains are wired differently but do they not know what they are doing when drunk? I know that i am no angel in life but Ive been out and got very drunk and never considered not coming home. I totally agree it is exhausting to worry about someone all the time and wish for peace/ stillness in my mind
Maud - i dont know if she had been incontinent or not, that was her explanation for the reason why her clothes were wet and she had a pair of her sisters trousers on. All i know is that she has never been before it or since. Your right it definitely is progressive, i have been thinking back a lot recently to when it all started and i have no idea. Maybe that's because it was always there, but in smaller amounts.
Anvil - Thank you for you good advice and wise words. I guess i have only held it for 4 years (even though that has only come to the forefront recently) as until now i have never told another person and was just wanting opinions on the matter as to how it would seem to them. She has been able to talk to her sister about it ,mainly to ask what happened as she cant fully remember. She has always tried to belittle the fact that i am bothered by it and thinks that i should not be. I do agree that i need to focus my attention on myself for the enforceable future and that is what i plan to do. i have told her that this will be happening and to be honest that i believe that she should focus solely on herself so she can heal.
I do feel a slight amount of closer to the fact that i have been able to let it out to someone.
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Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: America
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Lost:
Sorry for your situation.
Well, what is worse: The drinking or the possible infidelity? As far as the possible cheating, I say a person can most usually go with their gut on that and maybe that's a wrong thing to say, but as my mom used to say, "A woman knows". Of COURSE she would deny it. Just as addicts deny,deny,deny. Denial is part of the disease. Denial is a very common thing. I am not trying to stir up suspicion if you have already forgiven her, but since you've brought it up, I'd guess it's far from resolved and you still have doubts, even four years later.
But let's say if she did cheat that night. Has she done it since and/or did it stop? Can you forgive it? Because she may or may not have cheated, but if she did, did she regret it and did she stop that behavior. What do you think?
As for the drinking: big problem. And yes, it's progressive. What can start out as just going out and partying with sis every now and then can grow into a regular habit of drinking and before you know it full on addiction. I know I'm not telling you anything new.
Anvil nailed it as usual.
No matter what SHE did or didn't do; does or doesn't do, YOU can still DO what you need to do to have peace, joy and fulfillment in life; with or without her. Empower yourself and don't feel one bit guilty for pursuing your own happiness.
I tend to look at it this way. We are each a separate entity, even though married.
Will that be easy? No. But worth it.
Sorry for your situation.
Well, what is worse: The drinking or the possible infidelity? As far as the possible cheating, I say a person can most usually go with their gut on that and maybe that's a wrong thing to say, but as my mom used to say, "A woman knows". Of COURSE she would deny it. Just as addicts deny,deny,deny. Denial is part of the disease. Denial is a very common thing. I am not trying to stir up suspicion if you have already forgiven her, but since you've brought it up, I'd guess it's far from resolved and you still have doubts, even four years later.
But let's say if she did cheat that night. Has she done it since and/or did it stop? Can you forgive it? Because she may or may not have cheated, but if she did, did she regret it and did she stop that behavior. What do you think?
As for the drinking: big problem. And yes, it's progressive. What can start out as just going out and partying with sis every now and then can grow into a regular habit of drinking and before you know it full on addiction. I know I'm not telling you anything new.
Anvil nailed it as usual.
No matter what SHE did or didn't do; does or doesn't do, YOU can still DO what you need to do to have peace, joy and fulfillment in life; with or without her. Empower yourself and don't feel one bit guilty for pursuing your own happiness.
I tend to look at it this way. We are each a separate entity, even though married.
Will that be easy? No. But worth it.
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Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: America
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another thought
"Girls Night Out" has created a lot of bad feelings between husbands/wives, girlfriends/boyfriends, etc. Most people are out to party, have a good time and don't set out to cheat or end up with some guy they've never even met before and do things they wouldn't do sober. If I remember correctly, "Girls Night Out" became popular in the 1980's and was the "in" thing; the cool thing to do, etc. And there has always been "Going Out With The Guys". But some not so good things can come about with Girls Night Out.
I haven't always been a perfect angel myself and have done some "Girls Night Out" thingys. I even orchestrated a few....had a good time I guess, but it wasn't a regular thing and never ended up with cheating. My husband has also done a few nights out with the guys, bachelor parties, and even mixed gender parties like work related trips/retreats, etc. One time he took a road trip on a bus to Reno Nevada with male/females from work to have a weekend of fun and gambling. I was okay with him going and didn't worry about it. He is not a big drinker and I didn't worry about him cheating. So I said, "Ok, have a good time" and I didn't resent him for it.
But, that doesn't "work" for everyone. TRUST is a huge thing in intimate relationships. If you have trust and feel secure in their love for you, that's a big deal.
It sounds like to me, you don't feel secure in her love for you. This is why you're asking for advice and still questioning what all happened 4 years ago. If you were CURRENTLY assured of her love for you NOW and were currently fulfilled in your relationship with her NOW, this would likely not be on the radar.
But, I'm guessing the relationship is lacking and you are not getting the love you need.
I haven't always been a perfect angel myself and have done some "Girls Night Out" thingys. I even orchestrated a few....had a good time I guess, but it wasn't a regular thing and never ended up with cheating. My husband has also done a few nights out with the guys, bachelor parties, and even mixed gender parties like work related trips/retreats, etc. One time he took a road trip on a bus to Reno Nevada with male/females from work to have a weekend of fun and gambling. I was okay with him going and didn't worry about it. He is not a big drinker and I didn't worry about him cheating. So I said, "Ok, have a good time" and I didn't resent him for it.
But, that doesn't "work" for everyone. TRUST is a huge thing in intimate relationships. If you have trust and feel secure in their love for you, that's a big deal.
It sounds like to me, you don't feel secure in her love for you. This is why you're asking for advice and still questioning what all happened 4 years ago. If you were CURRENTLY assured of her love for you NOW and were currently fulfilled in your relationship with her NOW, this would likely not be on the radar.
But, I'm guessing the relationship is lacking and you are not getting the love you need.
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Join Date: Dec 2016
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Tea tree, WOW thank you for putting everything into such a great perspective and you have given me such a lot to think about.
i would have said infidelity was worse years ago, now i don't think so as i feel her drinking has hurt me more and for longer than any one night whatever it was possibly could do.
I suppose i always trusted her and still do when she is sober as i believe that she will not do anything to abuse that trust but she always changed into a different person when she was drunk.
When she drank to much at home i feel she has always been a stereotypical passive aggressive person. Have a go at me to the point i retaliate and then go quiet and ignore me so it appears it is all my fault. I got so tired of that that when she had a go i would just get up and go to bed so i didn't have to apologize in the morning for something i don't believe was my fault. Now she has quit i feel my emotions are all over the place as well as hers because i am not in some constant alert state.
i will definitely be taking on board your advice and investing more in myself. Even just reading what you have put i feel more empowered to be in charge of my own life again. As you say I am the only person who can make myself happy, fulfilled and in peace. This is something that i will be pursuing with a renewed vigor from now on.
i would have said infidelity was worse years ago, now i don't think so as i feel her drinking has hurt me more and for longer than any one night whatever it was possibly could do.
I suppose i always trusted her and still do when she is sober as i believe that she will not do anything to abuse that trust but she always changed into a different person when she was drunk.
When she drank to much at home i feel she has always been a stereotypical passive aggressive person. Have a go at me to the point i retaliate and then go quiet and ignore me so it appears it is all my fault. I got so tired of that that when she had a go i would just get up and go to bed so i didn't have to apologize in the morning for something i don't believe was my fault. Now she has quit i feel my emotions are all over the place as well as hers because i am not in some constant alert state.
i will definitely be taking on board your advice and investing more in myself. Even just reading what you have put i feel more empowered to be in charge of my own life again. As you say I am the only person who can make myself happy, fulfilled and in peace. This is something that i will be pursuing with a renewed vigor from now on.
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Join Date: Sep 2015
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Hmmmmm.
Walking on eggshells? Sure that can be done, but boy does it get old, huh? It's like living with someone who has a temper and you never know when they might be in that "mood" or what will trigger it. When a person lives that way, I think what happens is they cannot truly be their self or have true liberty.
You are in a sort of constant state of trying to predict how you will affect her instead of just being able to be yourself and have that be "okay". It's like living under her thumb, even though she is a woman, you are a man, and she is likely smaller than you physically.
I watched a dichotomy play out with my BIL and ex SIL. He is this big guy and she is petite, but boy did she wreak havoc on him; similar to what you describe by using the "silent treatment"; passive-aggressiveness, etc. The thing is, this turmoil can be present even if no addiction or cheating is a factor. My SIL was just a very unhappy person and in fact the two of them were not very compatible. It seemed to us her "unhappiness" ended up being his fault a lot of the time. But if you look at her childhood and part of her adulthood, there were things that happened to cause her unhappiness; issues and self esteem things that she couldn't seem to get rid of....she is a fine person in many regards: A hard worker, responsible, very smart, capable, resourceful, good skills, athletic, fit, creative, etc, etc. In many ways she was a little pistol....But I think it just wasn't a good match - in all honesty. And how do you fix THAT?
Well, they ended up getting divorced after 20 years of marriage and that was sort of sad, yet predictable too and I am the first person she CONFIDED in when she told me their marriage was reaching its end. She remarried within the year and was happy and in love, but her new husband committed suicide after he found out he had terminal cancer. YIKES!
My BIL is getting remarried; this time to the love of his life, I believe. She loves him and accepts him for who he is with all his personality traits and ADHD, etc.
So-I don't know where you are at with your wife; whether your love is deep, profound, etc. Only you can decide if you're going to stick it out of not. If she is in early sobriety that can be a nerve-wracking time, no matter who you are dealing with.
Just remember: You didn't cause it, you can't control it, you cannot cure it. She's gonna do things and say things that will make it come off as if it is your fault and it isn't your fault, it's the nature of the "beast": addiction....and it is the underlying issues that led her to become an alcoholic.
It sounds as if you have forgiven the one night stand or whatever it was and have moved on from it? If not, and there is still some residual hurt or resentment, that will have to be worked through.
I believe that long-term relationships require a certain amount of ongoing forgiveness, because inevitable we are going to do and say things and get in fights where things are said and done that are hurtful. There's a lot of healing that needs to happen. But there also needs to be honesty and ownership for one's own part and actions in the relationship.
It always seems to come back around to needing to work on your own self and realizing you cannot fix others, but you can make boundaries for your self and hold firm to those boundaries when others try to cross them and push you around. YOU get to decide what you can or cannot live with and that decision is not always an easy one to make.
It sounds like she 'pushes you around' by being manipulative and passive-aggressiveness is a very common manipulation tool.
Sorry this is so long...I hope it was helpful.
Walking on eggshells? Sure that can be done, but boy does it get old, huh? It's like living with someone who has a temper and you never know when they might be in that "mood" or what will trigger it. When a person lives that way, I think what happens is they cannot truly be their self or have true liberty.
You are in a sort of constant state of trying to predict how you will affect her instead of just being able to be yourself and have that be "okay". It's like living under her thumb, even though she is a woman, you are a man, and she is likely smaller than you physically.
I watched a dichotomy play out with my BIL and ex SIL. He is this big guy and she is petite, but boy did she wreak havoc on him; similar to what you describe by using the "silent treatment"; passive-aggressiveness, etc. The thing is, this turmoil can be present even if no addiction or cheating is a factor. My SIL was just a very unhappy person and in fact the two of them were not very compatible. It seemed to us her "unhappiness" ended up being his fault a lot of the time. But if you look at her childhood and part of her adulthood, there were things that happened to cause her unhappiness; issues and self esteem things that she couldn't seem to get rid of....she is a fine person in many regards: A hard worker, responsible, very smart, capable, resourceful, good skills, athletic, fit, creative, etc, etc. In many ways she was a little pistol....But I think it just wasn't a good match - in all honesty. And how do you fix THAT?
Well, they ended up getting divorced after 20 years of marriage and that was sort of sad, yet predictable too and I am the first person she CONFIDED in when she told me their marriage was reaching its end. She remarried within the year and was happy and in love, but her new husband committed suicide after he found out he had terminal cancer. YIKES!
My BIL is getting remarried; this time to the love of his life, I believe. She loves him and accepts him for who he is with all his personality traits and ADHD, etc.
So-I don't know where you are at with your wife; whether your love is deep, profound, etc. Only you can decide if you're going to stick it out of not. If she is in early sobriety that can be a nerve-wracking time, no matter who you are dealing with.
Just remember: You didn't cause it, you can't control it, you cannot cure it. She's gonna do things and say things that will make it come off as if it is your fault and it isn't your fault, it's the nature of the "beast": addiction....and it is the underlying issues that led her to become an alcoholic.
It sounds as if you have forgiven the one night stand or whatever it was and have moved on from it? If not, and there is still some residual hurt or resentment, that will have to be worked through.
I believe that long-term relationships require a certain amount of ongoing forgiveness, because inevitable we are going to do and say things and get in fights where things are said and done that are hurtful. There's a lot of healing that needs to happen. But there also needs to be honesty and ownership for one's own part and actions in the relationship.
It always seems to come back around to needing to work on your own self and realizing you cannot fix others, but you can make boundaries for your self and hold firm to those boundaries when others try to cross them and push you around. YOU get to decide what you can or cannot live with and that decision is not always an easy one to make.
It sounds like she 'pushes you around' by being manipulative and passive-aggressiveness is a very common manipulation tool.
Sorry this is so long...I hope it was helpful.
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i have forgotten that one night, the only reason i posted it really was to get another humans opinion on it as i have never said anything about it until now.
I am a strong person normal and like you say physically bigger than her. Being an Ex military veteran, i have had to endure many "mentally tough" situations in my life both in and out of the military. This however is looking like it is turning out to be my most difficult, probably because it has been going on so long and has finally come to a head. I am not saying that our whole marriage has been terrible but the last few years have been very difficult for me.
Thank you for taking the time to write such a long and thoughtful reply, i means a lot that there are people who i don't even know that will take such time to help.
I am a strong person normal and like you say physically bigger than her. Being an Ex military veteran, i have had to endure many "mentally tough" situations in my life both in and out of the military. This however is looking like it is turning out to be my most difficult, probably because it has been going on so long and has finally come to a head. I am not saying that our whole marriage has been terrible but the last few years have been very difficult for me.
Thank you for taking the time to write such a long and thoughtful reply, i means a lot that there are people who i don't even know that will take such time to help.
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