He's finally getting sober. Walk away or stay?

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Old 12-22-2016, 02:46 PM
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He's finally getting sober. Walk away or stay?

Hey all. This is my first post and I am so grateful and open to your wisdom and insight. I have been dating a really wonderful man since January. I was relatively newly divorced (nearly a year) from an emotionally abusive narcissist and was basically out just dating around for the first time in my adult life and having fun. Then I met him.

The first thing that bowled me over about him was his kindness and ability to get me to open up. Never mind that on our first date, which was brunch, he had two beers and on our second date, which involved a drive to a nearby town, he drank a couple of beers WHILE DRIVING (followed by us both getting pretty plowed at our arrival place). He was obviously successful, insightful, and functional. And I was so open and non-judgmental. (eye roll)

The first time I brought up my concerns about his drinking was about four months later. I was realizing that I was now consistently showing up for work with a hang over at least twice a week (had to keep up!). We were having a blast, but still. He was at first defensive, then played it off as, "Yeah, it has been kind of crazy." and we both took a month off of drinking, something he told me he'd done several times before when he felt things getting out of control. I was impressed.
At about six months in, I experienced his drunken anger for the first time. He didn't call me names, but he yelled, was irrational, and got in my face. I cried in the bathroom. The next morning, I told him that I had to, out of self-respect, end it. He wept. We snuggled. I took him back. We moved on,.

Another month later, we were out, he was drunk (I was buzzed) and he started berating me and implying I was promiscuous, which is pretty ludicrous and was almost like he was talking about someone else. I nipped it. He stopped. We were okay. But the uneasiness was growing. Then almost the same thing happened a week later. This time I "ended it." That lasted about four days. While not acknowledging that he had a drinking problem, he vowed to stop drinking until he had addressed whatever underlying anger or fear had led to his unkind behavior. He promised to go into counseling. I took him back. The sobriety lasted about a week. To be honest, I was the one who initiated the "can't you just drink moderately?" conversation. And things were good, despite the bit of anxiety always in my guts.

Four months went by, with him definitely drinking at an unsafe level, then reigning it in, then going sober, then occasionally drunk driving, but never being mean to me. I was very clear I wasn't going to govern him, and I never have. I tried to withhold judgment. Then two weeks ago, he got very drunk and a little rude to our friend of ours at a bar. I laughed it off and redirected it, and we got our coats on and left. As soon as we got outside, my mild-mannered, kind, thoughtful boyfriend screamed, "You are such a piece of ****!"

So I ended it. With no conditions. I just ended it. He immediately and for the first time acknowledged that he is an alcoholic. He has been sober these two weeks (something he's done lots of times, but never with the intention of it being permanent) and has apparently attended a couple of meetings. I haven't seen him, but we've texted a little, and he is very confident about his sobriety and clear of his where he's going with it (something I see as a red flag more than a source of hope). He is not at all throwing himself into AA or any treatment, but is doing lots of reading, talking a lot with his brother who has been in the recovery process for ages, and working out like crazy. Good, but not great.

So here's where I need guidance. Do I walk with him through this as his partner? Or do I walk away, knowing that I have already tolerated too much (I know it's not a lot compared to some, but I want and deserve peace, safety, and kindness)? When I first ended, I told myself that I wouldn't consider taking him back until he had at least six months of sobriety. But now here we are two weeks later, and I miss my best friend. I love him. I'm a natural caregiver (maybe a bit of codependent..or more than a bit), but I'm also a mother of a girl, a busy therapist myself (I know. I should know better), and a person who has already been through too much from my marriage. I have done so much work on myself. I am kind, gracious, loving, and trustworthy. But I have no wish to be a door mat.

Other than these outbursts, he as been so kind and respectful as a partner. He is appropriate with other women (even when intoxicated, from what I can tell), he takes care of me in all sorts of ways, he listens to my neurotic processing with care and warmth, he prioritizes me in his life. He's a true friend. But he's also got some dark moods that I see him work to keep me from, and I am nervous about what is ahead for him. He has a family history of Bipolar II and I have had some concerns about his mood fluctuations, despite his reserve and kindness. If nothing else, he has certainly battled depression.

I just don't know what to do.
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Old 12-22-2016, 03:04 PM
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Walk away

Originally Posted by bendite View Post
Hey all. This is my first post and I am so grateful and open to your wisdom and insight. I have been dating a really wonderful man since January. I was relatively newly divorced (nearly a year) from an emotionally abusive narcissist and was basically out just dating around for the first time in my adult life and having fun. Then I met him.

The first thing that bowled me over about him was his kindness and ability to get me to open up. Never mind that on our first date, which was brunch, he had two beers and on our second date, which involved a drive to a nearby town, he drank a couple of beers WHILE DRIVING (followed by us both getting pretty plowed at our arrival place). He was obviously successful, insightful, and functional. And I was so open and non-judgmental. (eye roll)

The first time I brought up my concerns about his drinking was about four months later. I was realizing that I was now consistently showing up for work with a hang over at least twice a week (had to keep up!). We were having a blast, but still. He was at first defensive, then played it off as, "Yeah, it has been kind of crazy." and we both took a month off of drinking, something he told me he'd done several times before when he felt things getting out of control. I was impressed.
At about six months in, I experienced his drunken anger for the first time. He didn't call me names, but he yelled, was irrational, and got in my face. I cried in the bathroom. The next morning, I told him that I had to, out of self-respect, end it. He wept. We snuggled. I took him back. We moved on,.

Another month later, we were out, he was drunk (I was buzzed) and he started berating me and implying I was promiscuous, which is pretty ludicrous and was almost like he was talking about someone else. I nipped it. He stopped. We were okay. But the uneasiness was growing. Then almost the same thing happened a week later. This time I "ended it." That lasted about four days. While not acknowledging that he had a drinking problem, he vowed to stop drinking until he had addressed whatever underlying anger or fear had led to his unkind behavior. He promised to go into counseling. I took him back. The sobriety lasted about a week. To be honest, I was the one who initiated the "can't you just drink moderately?" conversation. And things were good, despite the bit of anxiety always in my guts.

Four months went by, with him definitely drinking at an unsafe level, then reigning it in, then going sober, then occasionally drunk driving, but never being mean to me. I was very clear I wasn't going to govern him, and I never have. I tried to withhold judgment. Then two weeks ago, he got very drunk and a little rude to our friend of ours at a bar. I laughed it off and redirected it, and we got our coats on and left. As soon as we got outside, my mild-mannered, kind, thoughtful boyfriend screamed, "You are such a piece of ****!"

So I ended it. With no conditions. I just ended it. He immediately and for the first time acknowledged that he is an alcoholic. He has been sober these two weeks (something he's done lots of times, but never with the intention of it being permanent) and has apparently attended a couple of meetings. I haven't seen him, but we've texted a little, and he is very confident about his sobriety and clear of his where he's going with it (something I see as a red flag more than a source of hope). He is not at all throwing himself into AA or any treatment, but is doing lots of reading, talking a lot with his brother who has been in the recovery process for ages, and working out like crazy. Good, but not great.

So here's where I need guidance. Do I walk with him through this as his partner? Or do I walk away, knowing that I have already tolerated too much (I know it's not a lot compared to some, but I want and deserve peace, safety, and kindness)? When I first ended, I told myself that I wouldn't consider taking him back until he had at least six months of sobriety. But now here we are two weeks later, and I miss my best friend. I love him. I'm a natural caregiver (maybe a bit of codependent..or more than a bit), but I'm also a mother of a girl, a busy therapist myself (I know. I should know better), and a person who has already been through too much from my marriage. I have done so much work on myself. I am kind, gracious, loving, and trustworthy. But I have no wish to be a door mat.

Other than these outbursts, he as been so kind and respectful as a partner. He is appropriate with other women (even when intoxicated, from what I can tell), he takes care of me in all sorts of ways, he listens to my neurotic processing with care and warmth, he prioritizes me in his life. He's a true friend. But he's also got some dark moods that I see him work to keep me from, and I am nervous about what is ahead for him. He has a family history of Bipolar II and I have had some concerns about his mood fluctuations, despite his reserve and kindness. If nothing else, he has certainly battled depression.

I just don't know what to do.
This is coming from someone who drank hard, and I mean HARD for years. Walk away, he needs to lose and to hit the bottom. I'm not saying he's a bad guy, but through the eyes of another drunk, I know exactly what he is. As far as the outbursts go, it's only going to escalate, trust me. If he goes a year sober and wants to get back with you and your still interested, consider it. Anything below those standards, no way in hell. That's just my opinion.
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Old 12-22-2016, 03:19 PM
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Two weeks is nothing, even with the "intention of making it permanent."

You've been together less than a year and you have a consistent pattern of his drunk binges with unacceptable behavior, after which you break up, then he says the right things and maybe stops drinking for a bit...at which point you take him back. Rinse, repeat.

As he is not in a program or rehab, all you have are his words and two weeks. Yes, you miss and love him, but you do understand that this is most likely to be history repeating itself, especially going into the holidays? People with long-term recovery stumble this time of year.

Maybe do some reading here about partners who have spent decades in exactly this pattern and who get more enmeshed each year.

You have less than a year with him that he has mostly spent drinking (and you were, as well)...do you really know him? And you have your daughter to consider...exposing her to codependency means she most likely grow up and repeat this pattern.

It's your decision...but at best, your thread title maybe should be, "He says he's finally getting sober but it's only been two weeks and he's not throwing himself into any kind of program..."

Your instincts in telling him to get six months in were right, although that's still not much. At six months sober I was still all over the place.

Wishing you clarity and peace.
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Old 12-22-2016, 03:28 PM
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Other than these outbursts, he as been so kind and respectful as a partner.
Part of the reason I was so attracted to my ex was that he seemed better than my ex-husband. And he was, in some ways. But "less bad" is not a benchmark for a healthy relationship. I took a 3 year hiatus from dating and have been with my current gentleman for nearly a year. We've had discussions and disagreements of course, but he has never once had an "outburst" like you're describing, made crazy accusations or verbally berated me. A healthy relationship with a healthy person does not include that type of behavior. My alcoholic ex did that often after the initial honeymoon phase wore off. I wish I would have walked away sooner than I did.
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Old 12-22-2016, 03:42 PM
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Hi, bendite. Welcome to SR. I am sorry you are struggling. It's not easy. Were I you, I would not stay with your SO. He is not ready to give up alcohol. He is doing what he has probably in past with other women (Sorry.) That is, doing just enough and saying the right things so you will stay. Real recovery is observable. Real recovery is working a program, and real recovery is humble. Peace.
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Old 12-22-2016, 03:57 PM
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Welcome to SR Bendite! I'm super glad you found us.

This indicates you are a smart person >>>>>he is very confident about his sobriety and clear of his where he's going with it (something I see as a red flag more than a source of hope).

Rule of thumb around these parts is stay the heck away until someone has a year of sobriety under there belt. Ask him to text you after a year sober. And yes, this is super super hard to do with someone you care about.
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Old 12-22-2016, 04:04 PM
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I think your sentence that starts "Other than these outbursts..."'is reason enough to to end the relationship.

I am ten days away from having one year sober, and I did not always make my best decisions while drinking, but I was never abusive with my husband or kids. Your ex sounds like he has an anger problem in addition to a drinking problem.

You and your daughter don't need to be around a person who may react in the way he has.
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Old 12-22-2016, 04:05 PM
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Welcome. I can relate to your story.
Throwing you crumbs of amazing does not make him a partner. You have left him multiple times, he throws you crumbs, and you return. He knows how to work this. I agree that this is how these men operate with every woman they have in their life. They know how to manipulate. Think of your xnh (my xh was a narcissist also). Remember how they are master manipulators. I was with him for 10 years. You would have thought I had learned. No, I just lowered the abuse bar.

I took the advise that I had seen on this site and wrote a list of things that my recent xabf said and ways that he acted toward me. I go over it when I doubt my decision. "He will never be your partner" is something that I have to remind myself of multiple times a day. Every day. Read your post. That is the roller coaster ride that you will be choosing. I have no kids so my rides were solo (other than my birds and even they were affected negatively by seeing abuse due to their level of intelligence). Not wanting to expose them to yet another abusive relationship was a key factor in my decision to leave.

Please read through the threads here even in the other forums. They have helped me so, so much.
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Old 12-22-2016, 04:16 PM
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Let him hit the bottom. Hard. It's the only thing that's going to open his eyes and compel him to change. We alcoholics are stubborn, stiff necked and world class manipulators. Almost invariably the only thing that motivates us to change is something really really rotten happening to us as a result of our disease. (don't mean to sound harsh, but it's the truth). God bless.
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Old 12-22-2016, 04:33 PM
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I just don't know what to do.

yeah you do. you've been trying to DO it throughout the course of the relationship. you "ended it" three times....due to his rages and outbursts and accusations.

it's been two weeks now of his not drinking. or so we think because you haven't been in F2F contact. that is not enough time to gauge his sincerity and commitment.

i'd suggest you give it a year. yup, 12 months. IF he has maintained 100% sobriety during that time, and isn't harassing you endlessly to come back, then see how things go. if he can't stay sober, his addiction will progress and his anger and other possible underlying issues will progress. he's already shown you that under the influence he ceases to have any respect for you and lashes out. it's quite possible that even sober, he will have other behavioral issues to manage.
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Old 12-22-2016, 04:48 PM
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Only you can answer this question. My advice is would you knowingly get into a car with someone driving that is visibly intoxicated? By entering into a relationship with this guy, you're kind of doing the same thing.
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Old 12-22-2016, 05:32 PM
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the ONLY thing I knew after being sober 2 weeks is that I was SERIOUSLY screwed up in the melon and I didn't know jack ****. I sure as hell didn't have any of that confidence about my sobriety at 2 weeks- I still had the mental obsession and thought about drinking constantly.

I think you already know what to do, but just aren't sure and I hope these replies have set it in your heart what to do FOR YOU.

best move every woman made that got into a relationship with me was to walk away. I was only going to drag them down with me.

it was my fiancé tossin me to the curb( she was my ex fiancé by this point. I just hadn't been informed yet) that got it through my head that alcohol was the common denominator in my problems, I wanted help, got help, and have been sober since.
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Old 12-23-2016, 02:06 AM
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I understand it's very difficult to get your thoughts straight in these situations. So many what ifs!
I have been married to my AH for almost 5 years and known about the alcohol problem for 3.5
He's never been verbally or physically abusive towards me but I have suffered the moods and crazy thinking.
I have tried many different approaches during that time but nothing much has changed - he has abstained (drinks secretly now) and sought counselling but never worked any programme.
I know I will leave my marriage but it's not easy.

If I were in your situation (it's quite early days, less than a year) and had already had so many issues with the relationship I would not spend any more of my precious time in it. You're not married and doesn't sound as though you have any financial ties, that makes matters less complicated in a way.

Sorry for your turmoil. Wishing you peace.
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Old 12-23-2016, 02:54 AM
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Lots of good stuff here. Drinking is crap. Prayers to you.
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Old 12-23-2016, 03:09 AM
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It's likely he's giving up drinking to keep you rather than out of disgust with the way his life's going. The problem is that once he has you back again, he could let his guard down and start drinking again. If you read some of the threads on this forum, you'll see this story played out again and again.
You obviously have strong self-esteem, and the risk is you'll waste more time with him before you realise you're trapped with him in a cycle.
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Old 12-23-2016, 04:03 AM
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If you want to see if he's TRULY in recovery, just tell him "NO".
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Old 12-23-2016, 05:28 AM
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Being sober and being in recovery are very different from one another.....
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Old 12-23-2016, 06:56 AM
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Originally Posted by tomsteve View Post
the ONLY thing I knew after being sober 2 weeks is that I was SERIOUSLY screwed up in the melon and I didn't know jack ****. I sure as hell didn't have any of that confidence about my sobriety at 2 weeks- I still had the mental obsession and thought about drinking constantly.

I think you already know what to do, but just aren't sure and I hope these replies have set it in your heart what to do FOR YOU.

best move every woman made that got into a relationship with me was to walk away. I was only going to drag them down with me.

it was my fiancé tossin me to the curb( she was my ex fiancé by this point. I just hadn't been informed yet) that got it through my head that alcohol was the common denominator in my problems, I wanted help, got help, and have been sober since.
Couldn't have been said better! You nailed it. After 2 weeks, you begin to realize what a dumpster fire you actually are, not much else.
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Old 12-23-2016, 07:08 AM
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You are looking in the door of the 7th Circle of Hell...

...if you think I'm exaggerating walk through it. Once you are already in it's very, very hard to get out. Are you ready to forfeit the rest of your life to somebody very similar to your ex-husband? You are well on your way.

Please seek counseling, Alanon, or both.

My 17 years of two cents.

Cyranoak
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Old 12-23-2016, 07:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Cyranoak View Post
...if you think I'm exaggerating walk through it. Once you are already in it's very, very hard to get out. Are you ready to forfeit the rest of your life to somebody very similar to your ex-husband? You are well on your way.

Please seek counseling, Alanon, or both.

My 17 years of two cents.

Cyranoak
^^^^This! Please find a great counselor well versed in addiction and codependency. Alanon every time you can catch a meeting! Get a sponsor and complete the steps! I would completely cool the jets and eject! Eject! Eject! Until you have immersed yourself in your own recovery... Remember "red flags are not party favors so don't collect them" 😉
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