Jmv2003

It has only been 4 months since my AH left the house. It is all still confusing b/c I did not realize he had a problem until after he left and I put all of the pieces together with my therapist. I feels less crazy. I couldn't understand how for 2 years I would beg him for answers but he wouldn't open up about what was wrong or what he needed. He wouldn't even open up in therapy but thinks he tried b/c he went. In July we were in therapy where he told her he was 100% in to make our marriage work. I was about 75% b/c I didn't know how to make it work w/o him opening up. Just a month later was the fight that ended with me telling him to get out. I didn't mean forever. I had asked for a trial separation and because he acted normal during the first week, I thought thats what we were doing. When I called him a week later, he said he was done.I was shocked! Since then, he stuck to that. Any time I have gotten angry or cried, he looks like he wants to get away. He is so cold, and the only emotion he shows is anger. He gets agitated easily and was paranoid for a while that I was tracking his phone to find where he was(I was not).
Anyway, now that I know he has a drinking problem, I know that I cannot make him change. It is so hard. I get upset a lot. I know he misses being home and our 3 kids but does not think he has a problem. A few weeks ago in a couples therapy session, she told him he has to get help after he admitted what he drinks. Isn't that enough to tell him he has a problem? I know that alcohol can change a person in so many ways. I wish he could see it. Friends and family encourage me to talk to him but I can't! I have talked, texted, emailed...he doesn't want to hear it so I am no longer doing it. I apologized for my part in the fighting and explained why I did it.
Here is what makes this so hard...not only was this man the love of my life and so different before he started drinking more(maybe b/c of depression), I still have no answers. He tells people he is done, its been a long time and nobody wanted this. What kind of responses are those?? Those are the answers I get as well! He never came to me when he left and said just fyi, I'm done! I had to reach out to him! I feel so disrespected. He has never said anything to me! He also does whatever he wants and it hurts. He made this decision for both of us and never had enough respect to talk to me. It feels so unfair. How can he wipe his hands of our marriage so easily? Is it the alcohol? The therapist did say to us that he numbs his pain with it and that he should have more compassion for me b/c my emotions are normal. How can I move on without closure or questions answered?? Thanks!
**I want to add that when I back off with talking to him, seeing him, emailing him(especially about emotional stuff), he reaches out to me. Most of the time he tries to talk to me nicely and like everything is normal and our lives have not drastically changed. What is this about???

NewRomanMan

It's about insanity. It's the nature of alcoholism. People trapped in untreated alcoholism don't think clearly or act rationally. Get yourself some help in the meantime and do your best to cut him loose. There simply isn't anything you, a therapist or anyone else can do to make him stop drinking. He has to take the actions needed. Take care of yourself and your kids and leave him to himself before he really does some damage to all of you.

Jmv2003

Thank you for the response. I have been doing a lot to help me and the kids. Do I leave and never look back? Or just wait for him to get help and then maybe be there for him?

LexieCat

You could be waiting years--decades. As of right now he doesn't want help, and he wants out of the marriage. I'd suggest letting go.

Jmv2003

This is what I was trying to do. He eventually starting saying divorce to me and other people but never followed through with anything. As soon as I started saying it might be the right thing, he started talking about a legal separation for now. Why the change??

NewRomanMan

It's hard to say. There's a lot of things that we alcoholics do and say that don't make any sense at all when we're in active addiction. Give yourself some breathing space to take time and think. You don't have to know all the answers this very moment. Be patient with yourself and trust that things are being worked out for YOU by a higher power. Relax and let things be for the moment.

SparkleKitty

It's impossible to make rational sense from an irrational condition like addiction. You can tie yourself in knots asking why or what does this mean, but that energy, time, and focus is far better spent taking care of yourself and your kids.

biminiblue

Well, you don't have to wait for him to decide.

It's your decision too.

I've gone through a few breakups. I have to say that the questions I would most like answered don't get answered. Or they get answered in ways I don't like.

When someone says, "I'm done." I take that as the truth. If it isn't the truth, it's abusive and manipulation, and I believe it will lead to the end anyway.

Jmv2003

I honestly think he wants to be done b/c he doesnt want to face reality. I think that when he has feelings, he drinks. When I start talking divorce, he backs off. I'm the one seeing a lawyer, not him. I just don't understand. I think he tells other people he wants to divorce to help convince himself but likes to say it to me b/c he knows it hurts me.

atalose

Of course he does, alcoholics don’t want to deal with their own feelings let alone deal with yours. When someone wants to end a relationship with someone who doesn’t want that relationship to end, the person NOT wanting it to end grabs on, holds on, clings to the other person in smothering ways. The person wanting to end it gets angry and distant and becomes cold.

It's about you not smothering him.
You mentioned that just a few weeks ago the two of you were in couples therapy, why not ask those questions at your next session?

One of the things I have learned over the years is that the person wanting/needing closure and questions answered is usually the person still holding on, still seeking the fix on how to repair a damaged or ended relationship. The other thing I learned was, trying to hold onto someone who doesn’t want to be held is like hugging a cactus. The tighter you hold on the more it’s going to hurt.

It’s good you are seeking out an attorney to protect yourself and your children.

LexieCat

That's not what your first post in this thread said--you said he has consistently said he is done, wants out, etc.

If he's changed his tune, my guess is that he's figured out that getting divorced costs money and effort, neither of which he feels like expending. He's not worried about how this affects you and your kids. He'd prefer to coast and let things continue as they are, where he has the freedom to drink the way he wants to and no obligations.

If I were you, I'd get that motion for child support filed immediately. He has to be financially responsible for the kids no matter what he does. And if I were you, I wouldn't passively wait for him to make the first move, here. Talk to your lawyer and get moving on a legal separation (if it's recognized in your state--it isn't in all states) at the very least and child support. You need legal protection for your own well being, as well as your kids'.

Jmv2003

I got all the info today from the lawyer. Just need to make a decision now.

Jmv2003

Lexiecat, I replied to your post but not sure what happened! ^

Jmv2003

I want to add a couple things that don't make sense...

When I try to stick to contact through emails, he tries to talk to me. He does not communicate well. I would assume he doesnt want to see me either(especially b/c it upsets me) so why not tell me he is on his way home when he knows I am there picking up the kids from his mom??

Also, when I speak to friends/family he speaks to, why does he say things like "I don't think we could change" and "nobody wanted this". What?? I HAVE changed! Maybe he cant... and nobody wanted this?? He never tried to keep it from happening!!

Last, and I know you are all going to say b/c he drinks, but I cannot understand how this man who used to be such a wonderful involved father becomes a man who can go 2 or 3 days w/o seeing his boys! It makes me so sad. They ask about him...

LexieCat

Got it. If I were you, I'd proceed on the assumption that (1) he doesn't want to quit drinking, (2) any apparent hesitation to divorce, or expressions of caring for you or reluctance to end it is manipulation to make his life easier, and (3) that it is critical for you to do whatever your lawyer advises to protect your house, your jointly-owned property, your credit standing, and your children's safety and well-being.

Look, it takes months and months--at best--for a divorce to become final. If a miracle happens you can always dismiss your action for divorce. But the longer you wait to begin, the longer everything drags out. You will spend more money in legal fees, your kids won't have the reliable support and visitation arrangements (i.e., stability) that they need, and your life will remain in limbo.

Just my two cents.

LexieCat

He says things like that to family and friends to save face--to make this look like he really tried.

My guess is that he prefers talking to emails because it's easier for him to gauge whether his manipulation is working--whether you're weakening or reacting to whatever he says. It also leaves no evidence, whereas emails can be used against him later.

And finally, as to "what's really going on with him"--who knows. It could be that he wants to just drink the way he wants to drink. He might be having an affair (or thinks he wants to). He might just have that alcoholic "restless, irritable and discontent" feeling in general, and thinks being on his own is the answer. Some people actually DO change that quickly. Or he might have been changing for a while and is only now disclosing it. No way to know for sure.

Jmv2003

It's funny you say affair. Is it an affair because my AH never had enough respect to have a conversation with me about where we stand. He thinks telling me he's done gets him off the hook with the marriage? That's real mature.

LexieCat

That's not a sign that it's an affair--it's rather cowardly, but that's about it.

Here's the thing--there is really no "explanation" he can give you that would make any of this OK for you. It's not as if he's going to explain himself, and you will then say, "OH, I get it--that makes sense. No problem, but thanks for letting me know." It's going to hurt whatever his "reason" is. It won't make you feel any better to know it--assuming, of course, that HE knows what it is.

Suppose it's just that he wants to be free of anything cramping his style when it comes to drinking. Would that feel satisfying? If he were to say he "loves" you but "isn't in love with" you, would that feel better? (BTW, that's pretty much why I divorced my first husband, with whom I am now good friends. It sure didn't make HIM feel great.)

This is gonna hurt no matter what. The best thing you can do, though, is to take as good care of yourself and your kids that you can. Eventually, you will get through the grieving process and go on with your life. It won't happen overnight, but it WILL happen. I think it's likely to happen sooner if you don't try to keep hanging on.

Bekindalways

Hey Jmv, so glad you found us and a belated welcome from me.

I am so sorry you are going through this. Alcohol/drugs can end the best marriages and relationships; It's horrible. I remember that pain; I honestly didn't think that humans could hurt that much.

Unfortunately there really isn't such thing as closure but with time there will be healing. Please, please take care of yourself the best you can.

Big hug!

FireSprite

The very best thing I've ever read on SR relating to this topic was lillamy's share that, "With addicts, you have to provide your own closure."

ESPECIALLY those still active in their addictions. Closure just doesn't exist in their world:

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...they-lost.html


It sounds to me like you keep trying to make this Make Sense & in reality it just doesn't & never will. Addiction is NOT logical, it doesn't follow reason or heed obvious warnings. The things he's saying sound good to him at the time & likely appeal to his audience. He's not examining these statements for accuracy or giving them deep thought before they fly out of his mouth, but even if he was it would probably sound "right" to him..... because he's seeing it through the lens of addiction. He really DOES think he's fully functioning & completely healthy in his thought process.

The only thing on his long-term list right now is to protect his drinking. That's it. He's painting himself as a victim in all of this because what CAN he say? "I drink waaaay too much & it's become a burden on my family"? That kind of statement would take awareness & accountability on his part - things he's exhibiting ZERO signs of having.

Something that helped me A LOT in understanding addiction from the addict's point of view was to read a ton of threads in the Newcomers & Alcoholism forums here at SR. My husband pulled away from DD during his worst drinking periods too - he hid from ANYONE that might see who he really was turning into & what was really happening with him. He didn't SAY that of course - he was just always working or "too busy" for her needs.

Honestly when she did spend time with him all she wanted was to come home to me - at 5/6 years old she was already very wise to the discrepancies she was witnessing & knew that she didn't feel safe or comfortable with then-AH without me there. She loved him VERY much but didn't trust him as he progressed into his disease. Kids are so smart - he showed her who he was & she simply believed him. *I* struggled far more, trying to force him back into the label that had previously fit so well.

Here's the way I had to start looking at it: AH & I on a sinking boat & him refusing to put on a life jacket even though he can't swim.... while DD stands on the shore, all alone. How long was I willing to try to forcefully wrestle him into that life vest? How long CAN I?... it's exhausting business! How long before I let him, a grown man, have the dignity of his own choices & what happens if I put that energy into swimming to shore & saving myself & DD instead?

So what are you doing for YOU since all of this has happened? I realize that young children absorb your time & energy but we have to remind ourselves that we can't pour from an empty cup - if you aren't taking care of your emotional needs, it'll start impacting all parts of your life. Have you considered individual counseling?