Hello, all - long first post - insights?
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Far from Ideal
Posts: 5
Hello, all - long first post - insights?
HIi, everyone. I’ve been reading posts as a lurker for a while, they’ve been really helpful to know I’m not alone. Finally signed up to SR; took a while to get to my first post here. Sorry it’s so long, but I could use some perspective.
My AH and I have been married for 27 years. We met in college; some social drinking that would be common among those who just turned of legal drinking age, but it didn’t hold much interest for me beyond that. It held more interest for him, but I didn’t see that at the time. His mother was active in AA at the time I met her (and has been since), so it didn’t occur to me then that he either wouldn’t know what behavior to be mindful for, or to watch for in himself as a sign that he might need help. Or that he wouldn’t want to see if it if was there.
Fast forward to about 12 years ago – we’d been having some tough spots in our relationship, and I was starting to think that I wasn’t sure if we should be married anymore – lots of instances of feelings being disregarded, not the best of communication, and cleaning up after his alcohol binges. Finding out that, while he was away on a business trip, he’d spent a lot of money on prostitutes, I flew off the handle. We go into counseling together, and I added some on for myself to get a better sense of where the hell this was all going, and where did I want to be in it. Turns out that he has addictions not only to alcohol that probably started when he was about 13, but porn as well….. aren’t I the lucky one…..
Not easy, but we opted to work on our relationship. We went through a lot of mess getting the porn out of the house, and I continued my individual counseling to get some clarity for me; ended up starting to go to Al-Anon meetings, even though he didn’t go to any support meetings himself. He had an individual counselor, with whom he had ‘conversations’ now and then, but looking back, I don’t know how hard he really worked at it.
So here we are, 12 years later….. both addictions have re-surfaced again. He was concerned that we weren’t having a good relationship; mainly, I think, because of an incident that showed, for the first time publicly, that we weren’t the happy-go-lucky couple he wanted everyone to see. I told him that I wasn’t happy with his alcohol and porn use, not happy that it was back after so much time we took addressing this before, the lying on so many topics; and that I would no longer automatically change my story, clean things up or gloss them over to make him comfortable – and that if he felt uncomfortable because of his behaviors, then maybe that’s just where he needed to be and ponder it for a while.
And that we should get some joint counseling once he works on getting a solid handle on tackling his addictions, it’s useless before then, because I didn’t know who I was dealing with anymore – he’s not the same man I married.
Don’t know if that got through to him; I don’t know if it meant enough to him alone. But, when given direction from a physician who performs his pilot’s medical exam to ‘drink less’ (he flies as a hobby, not a profession; and he doesn’t fly when he’s drunk, some common sense left in the brain), I guess that was enough to make him consider doing something.
So…. He’s started to see another counselor on his issues a few months ago, and they are working some sort of ‘harm reduction’ model on the alcohol. Not sure what all of that means, I can see some changes; but he isn’t sober, and still has slip-ups, although they are less frequent. He’s still wanting to find a way to blame me for every negative vibe in the house, trying to make me as one with the problems, etc. I’ll admit that I’ve gone through (and am still going through) a lot of stress this year, losing both a job and a parent, and seeing a sibling through some really tough legal issues with her crazy ex; but have coped with it through increasing exercise, chatting with friends, discovering prayer and meditation, keeping with my Al-anon materials, and coming here
- and have come though more resilient and strong than I thought I could be.
But even with all this, the biggest source of stress I have right now, is him……. I tell him what I do to deal with everything when he asks how I’m doing, and push back on his attempts to make me the sole reason for the house drama, he has a part in it too; then he seems to want to end the conversation.
My problems are many… but the one think that’s different this time around for me is that I’m finding it really hard to have any compassion for any changes he’s making. When I look at him, so often all I feel is contempt – how we could still be basically at square one after all this time; will he ever address his family influences on this (alcoholic mother who has been in recovery in AA and believes in the program, a brother who had to get alcoholic treatment after having seizures at work, has had a couple years of sobriety – but neither of them would dare to talk to their mother about their problems, lest she push on them too hard to go into AA) and get to the bottom of those; why does he think that I need to be the one to solve all his problems (he’s a grown man!), how much longer before he gets serious about making a change for the better, and not just do the cosmetic easy stuff?
I’m starting to think that I may be looking for the alcohol and porn to be completely gone, and I don’t know if that’s realistic. We spoke the other day about how he was doing, and he feels that I should be more supportive of the changes he’s made, that he’s only been working on it a few months….. Excuse Me: according to my calendar, This Hell Started Blowing Up 12 Effing Years Ago!!!! I’ve done the hard insight work on me; why can’t you???
How long is long enough to get to some point of stability in harm reduction counseling? Trying to give it a chance so our marriage counseling has a chance; but finding it hard to be anything more than frustrated about the situation. And, I am still without a job, so I can’t afford to leave, and can’t afford to have him leave the house…. I feel stuck. Our communication is still not good; I’ve taken to finding other things to do rather than try to have a meaningful conversation on most topics; the resulting argument state just isn’t productive, I’m tired of it. He seems to want his ipad and podcasts on 24/7 most times anyway.
The only positive is that our children had four paws and fur, and both have gone to the Rainbow Bridge a couple years ago now, so no issues there.
Any and all insights appreciated.
Card
My AH and I have been married for 27 years. We met in college; some social drinking that would be common among those who just turned of legal drinking age, but it didn’t hold much interest for me beyond that. It held more interest for him, but I didn’t see that at the time. His mother was active in AA at the time I met her (and has been since), so it didn’t occur to me then that he either wouldn’t know what behavior to be mindful for, or to watch for in himself as a sign that he might need help. Or that he wouldn’t want to see if it if was there.
Fast forward to about 12 years ago – we’d been having some tough spots in our relationship, and I was starting to think that I wasn’t sure if we should be married anymore – lots of instances of feelings being disregarded, not the best of communication, and cleaning up after his alcohol binges. Finding out that, while he was away on a business trip, he’d spent a lot of money on prostitutes, I flew off the handle. We go into counseling together, and I added some on for myself to get a better sense of where the hell this was all going, and where did I want to be in it. Turns out that he has addictions not only to alcohol that probably started when he was about 13, but porn as well….. aren’t I the lucky one…..
Not easy, but we opted to work on our relationship. We went through a lot of mess getting the porn out of the house, and I continued my individual counseling to get some clarity for me; ended up starting to go to Al-Anon meetings, even though he didn’t go to any support meetings himself. He had an individual counselor, with whom he had ‘conversations’ now and then, but looking back, I don’t know how hard he really worked at it.
So here we are, 12 years later….. both addictions have re-surfaced again. He was concerned that we weren’t having a good relationship; mainly, I think, because of an incident that showed, for the first time publicly, that we weren’t the happy-go-lucky couple he wanted everyone to see. I told him that I wasn’t happy with his alcohol and porn use, not happy that it was back after so much time we took addressing this before, the lying on so many topics; and that I would no longer automatically change my story, clean things up or gloss them over to make him comfortable – and that if he felt uncomfortable because of his behaviors, then maybe that’s just where he needed to be and ponder it for a while.
And that we should get some joint counseling once he works on getting a solid handle on tackling his addictions, it’s useless before then, because I didn’t know who I was dealing with anymore – he’s not the same man I married.
Don’t know if that got through to him; I don’t know if it meant enough to him alone. But, when given direction from a physician who performs his pilot’s medical exam to ‘drink less’ (he flies as a hobby, not a profession; and he doesn’t fly when he’s drunk, some common sense left in the brain), I guess that was enough to make him consider doing something.
So…. He’s started to see another counselor on his issues a few months ago, and they are working some sort of ‘harm reduction’ model on the alcohol. Not sure what all of that means, I can see some changes; but he isn’t sober, and still has slip-ups, although they are less frequent. He’s still wanting to find a way to blame me for every negative vibe in the house, trying to make me as one with the problems, etc. I’ll admit that I’ve gone through (and am still going through) a lot of stress this year, losing both a job and a parent, and seeing a sibling through some really tough legal issues with her crazy ex; but have coped with it through increasing exercise, chatting with friends, discovering prayer and meditation, keeping with my Al-anon materials, and coming here
- and have come though more resilient and strong than I thought I could be. But even with all this, the biggest source of stress I have right now, is him……. I tell him what I do to deal with everything when he asks how I’m doing, and push back on his attempts to make me the sole reason for the house drama, he has a part in it too; then he seems to want to end the conversation.
My problems are many… but the one think that’s different this time around for me is that I’m finding it really hard to have any compassion for any changes he’s making. When I look at him, so often all I feel is contempt – how we could still be basically at square one after all this time; will he ever address his family influences on this (alcoholic mother who has been in recovery in AA and believes in the program, a brother who had to get alcoholic treatment after having seizures at work, has had a couple years of sobriety – but neither of them would dare to talk to their mother about their problems, lest she push on them too hard to go into AA) and get to the bottom of those; why does he think that I need to be the one to solve all his problems (he’s a grown man!), how much longer before he gets serious about making a change for the better, and not just do the cosmetic easy stuff?
I’m starting to think that I may be looking for the alcohol and porn to be completely gone, and I don’t know if that’s realistic. We spoke the other day about how he was doing, and he feels that I should be more supportive of the changes he’s made, that he’s only been working on it a few months….. Excuse Me: according to my calendar, This Hell Started Blowing Up 12 Effing Years Ago!!!! I’ve done the hard insight work on me; why can’t you???
How long is long enough to get to some point of stability in harm reduction counseling? Trying to give it a chance so our marriage counseling has a chance; but finding it hard to be anything more than frustrated about the situation. And, I am still without a job, so I can’t afford to leave, and can’t afford to have him leave the house…. I feel stuck. Our communication is still not good; I’ve taken to finding other things to do rather than try to have a meaningful conversation on most topics; the resulting argument state just isn’t productive, I’m tired of it. He seems to want his ipad and podcasts on 24/7 most times anyway.
The only positive is that our children had four paws and fur, and both have gone to the Rainbow Bridge a couple years ago now, so no issues there.
Any and all insights appreciated.
Card
Member
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 174
I'm sorry for what you're going through. I'm not really sure, other than I think you'll know when enough is enough. I do believe addiction is a disease, but that doesn't mean you have to stay with him if you're unhappy. You have to take care of yourself, and if that means leaving then that's what it means. Maybe the two of you could get back together somewhere down the line once he's in recovery.
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
I did a "harm reduction" "program" (yes, they exist) for four years, kidding myself that I was "making progress." The only thing progressing was my alcoholism. In all that time, I met one or two people who I believe settled into long-term moderate drinking habits. That's out of literally hundreds that I encountered. I think there are a very few heavy or "problem" drinkers who can successfully moderate. They are unicorns. Almost mythological.
I have been completely sober for eight years, in AA. My first husband will celebrate 37 years of sobriety in a few weeks.
I think your husband is pursuing the dream of every alcoholic--to be able to drink normally. I seriously doubt it's in the cards. And the porn addiction, too? I wouldn't be at all surprised if the prostitution resurfaces, if it hasn't, already.
Only you can decide what you're willing to live with. But from what you describe, I wouldn't be expecting any long-term "improvement."
I have been completely sober for eight years, in AA. My first husband will celebrate 37 years of sobriety in a few weeks.
I think your husband is pursuing the dream of every alcoholic--to be able to drink normally. I seriously doubt it's in the cards. And the porn addiction, too? I wouldn't be at all surprised if the prostitution resurfaces, if it hasn't, already.
Only you can decide what you're willing to live with. But from what you describe, I wouldn't be expecting any long-term "improvement."
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Far from Ideal
Posts: 5
I'm not actively going to Al-Anon meetings today; I'm doing much more exercise than I was when i first started going, so available free time (gotta keep the job search going) has become less. The meeting I used to go to is at the same time as my MMA class, so I will need to find another one.
As for 'house drama', it's mainly centered around arguments and ensuing silence, or various electronic devices turned up loudly to prevent having to talk things out. One example: the other day, we were having soup for lunch on a weekend afternoon. I'd had my workout earlier in the day, and like to add additional protein to the meal that follows my workout, particularly a heavy one, and he knows this. I go to get a can of tuna, make some quick tuna salad and tortilla chips to have with the soup, and sit down with him to have the meal.
He then goes into a bad mood. I ask him what's wrong, and am told that he's upset because I didn't offer him any tuna salad, that I was 'doing things by myself, and not including him'.
I calmly explain the desire for extra protein, no other thought processes of inclusion or exclusion linked to that.
He continues to feel that I should have asked him regardless.... this then started a cycle of negativity, with his claiming my actions prompt his not feeling positive about things, which starts his own negative reactions....
This argument went for most of lunch. I didn't agree that I was the cause of his having a bad day. Seeing that I wouldn't agree with him, he spent most of the afternoon on his computer, listening to podcasts and not interacting. I went on and lived life with errands I needed to do.
Move forward to time to make dinner; he tries to bring the topic up again. I ask what specifically was the behavior that bothered him, and asked to use the tuna as an example. He then proceeds to go into a long explanation of how, sometimes, his bad mood is the result of a number of things happening in a day, sometimes starting at work and adding on from there. So I said, "I understand that a bad mood can stem from a chain of factors. The problem is, when you come home and claim I'm the catalyst for your bad mood, I have no way of seeing all of the many things that happened previously - all I see is that I do one thing, and you get upset at me for it. It's not right for you to make me the bad guy for your bad day chain of events, I didn't cause it."
This makes too much sense; so he then doesn't want to talk about it anymore. Dinner is eaten in silence, he then goes off to watch TV with the volume turned up, or goes into his office and closes the door, not to reappear hours later.
I feel like I have a child who's older than I am; a medical miracle..... even my young nieces don't act this bad.
As for 'house drama', it's mainly centered around arguments and ensuing silence, or various electronic devices turned up loudly to prevent having to talk things out. One example: the other day, we were having soup for lunch on a weekend afternoon. I'd had my workout earlier in the day, and like to add additional protein to the meal that follows my workout, particularly a heavy one, and he knows this. I go to get a can of tuna, make some quick tuna salad and tortilla chips to have with the soup, and sit down with him to have the meal.
He then goes into a bad mood. I ask him what's wrong, and am told that he's upset because I didn't offer him any tuna salad, that I was 'doing things by myself, and not including him'.
I calmly explain the desire for extra protein, no other thought processes of inclusion or exclusion linked to that.
He continues to feel that I should have asked him regardless.... this then started a cycle of negativity, with his claiming my actions prompt his not feeling positive about things, which starts his own negative reactions....
This argument went for most of lunch. I didn't agree that I was the cause of his having a bad day. Seeing that I wouldn't agree with him, he spent most of the afternoon on his computer, listening to podcasts and not interacting. I went on and lived life with errands I needed to do.
Move forward to time to make dinner; he tries to bring the topic up again. I ask what specifically was the behavior that bothered him, and asked to use the tuna as an example. He then proceeds to go into a long explanation of how, sometimes, his bad mood is the result of a number of things happening in a day, sometimes starting at work and adding on from there. So I said, "I understand that a bad mood can stem from a chain of factors. The problem is, when you come home and claim I'm the catalyst for your bad mood, I have no way of seeing all of the many things that happened previously - all I see is that I do one thing, and you get upset at me for it. It's not right for you to make me the bad guy for your bad day chain of events, I didn't cause it."
This makes too much sense; so he then doesn't want to talk about it anymore. Dinner is eaten in silence, he then goes off to watch TV with the volume turned up, or goes into his office and closes the door, not to reappear hours later.
I feel like I have a child who's older than I am; a medical miracle..... even my young nieces don't act this bad.
Guest
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Northwest
Posts: 4,215
At some point, we realize on a visceral level that we only have so many years on this planet and maybe fewer than we'd like to expect, because there are no guarantees.
Assume he will not change, because that's a reasonable conclusion at this point. Is arguing about tuna fish how you want to spend your remaining days?
Sending you hopes for strength and clarity.
Assume he will not change, because that's a reasonable conclusion at this point. Is arguing about tuna fish how you want to spend your remaining days?
Sending you hopes for strength and clarity.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Blue Ridge Mountains
Posts: 816
As others have said, you will know when enough is enough.
The following techniques may help relieve some of the
circular conversations you are engaging in:
Circular Conversations ? Out of the FOG
Medium Chill ? Out of the FOG
For me, alanon was essential. In fact, my AH came to the realization
that certain toxic interactions were guaranteed to get me going to
a meeting, or disappear to call my sponsor. The last several months
have been relatively peaceful and I can relax at home & around him.
Much of this I credit with alanon attendance and working the steps, SR, and of course, my HP.
The following techniques may help relieve some of the
circular conversations you are engaging in:
Circular Conversations ? Out of the FOG
Medium Chill ? Out of the FOG
For me, alanon was essential. In fact, my AH came to the realization
that certain toxic interactions were guaranteed to get me going to
a meeting, or disappear to call my sponsor. The last several months
have been relatively peaceful and I can relax at home & around him.
Much of this I credit with alanon attendance and working the steps, SR, and of course, my HP.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Midwest
Posts: 11,481
Card45, welcome to SR. If it was possible for us to "reason" our A's out of their alcoholism, this site probably wouldn't exist. Detachment is a useful tool, but you can "calmly explain" to him all you want and it's not going to change a single thing. He is not going to come to understand differently, to act differently, to treat you differently. He can't. He is an addict, behaving as active addicts do.
The only one who can change things here is you, and the only thing you can change is you.
It sounds like you're pretty serious about working out and changing your body's abilities, and you've learned a lot about how to do that. Might I suggest that recovery will require similar education and dedication? It sure sounds like you have the wherewithal to do so when you decide you're ready.
The only one who can change things here is you, and the only thing you can change is you.
It sounds like you're pretty serious about working out and changing your body's abilities, and you've learned a lot about how to do that. Might I suggest that recovery will require similar education and dedication? It sure sounds like you have the wherewithal to do so when you decide you're ready.
Community Greeter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
Card45.......I understand that you feel "stuck".
Sometimes, it is't that there are no solutions....it is that there are so lutions that we are unwilling to take.
I do believe that we are on this earth to thrive...we were created so that we can thrive...not just exist.
Honestly, from what you have shared, It sounds, to me, that you are waiting for something that will never happen.
You can't make someone else into something that you want...and especially, if they don't want it.
Drinking and porn and emotional unavailability are not problems for him....they are problems for you. If he was unhappy with his drinking and porn and lack of empathy...he would be willing to make real changes....
It is a Law of Life...that you are responsible for your own happiness.
If you want to be happy....you have to bring it about...
Your husband is not the key to your happiness....(after 27yrs., and you are unhappy in the marriage...perhaps you have hitched your star to the wrong wagon?).
Personally, I would rather live in a refridgerator box in the forest, and be happy...than live in a castle with with an unsatisfied soul......
You make your own decisions (of course)....and receive the fruits of those decsions...be they good or bad......
This is true for all of us...nobody gets a special break....
Sometimes, it is't that there are no solutions....it is that there are so lutions that we are unwilling to take.
I do believe that we are on this earth to thrive...we were created so that we can thrive...not just exist.
Honestly, from what you have shared, It sounds, to me, that you are waiting for something that will never happen.
You can't make someone else into something that you want...and especially, if they don't want it.
Drinking and porn and emotional unavailability are not problems for him....they are problems for you. If he was unhappy with his drinking and porn and lack of empathy...he would be willing to make real changes....
It is a Law of Life...that you are responsible for your own happiness.
If you want to be happy....you have to bring it about...
Your husband is not the key to your happiness....(after 27yrs., and you are unhappy in the marriage...perhaps you have hitched your star to the wrong wagon?).
Personally, I would rather live in a refridgerator box in the forest, and be happy...than live in a castle with with an unsatisfied soul......
You make your own decisions (of course)....and receive the fruits of those decsions...be they good or bad......
This is true for all of us...nobody gets a special break....
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Far from Ideal
Posts: 5
Thanks to all for your thoughts and insights above. Tough to see the writing on the wall (literally!), but it's what I needed to hear from others, to see if my perspective was just so screwed up from being in this situation so long.
Ariesagain, your post, in its simplicity, was the one that made me just stop. And think. And cry - because it put a simple question in front of me, and there was no way I could honestly answer it without life becoming a lot more complicated and unsettling than it already is.
So now I need to try and focus on my own recovery more, finding another Al-anon group to connect with is one step. What are thoughts on marriage counseling in this situation? It may have benefits of closure for me on a few things, but I don't know whether anything will change if he is given a true ultimatum. Just feels like I've left something undone/unanswered if I just close the book on 27 years (and there were lots of good times in there too, even recently; but the bad ones outweigh them now, and trust has eroded); has anyone ever gotten any benefits from going the counseling route in this type of situation, or do the addictions make it a wasted effort?
Ariesagain, your post, in its simplicity, was the one that made me just stop. And think. And cry - because it put a simple question in front of me, and there was no way I could honestly answer it without life becoming a lot more complicated and unsettling than it already is.
So now I need to try and focus on my own recovery more, finding another Al-anon group to connect with is one step. What are thoughts on marriage counseling in this situation? It may have benefits of closure for me on a few things, but I don't know whether anything will change if he is given a true ultimatum. Just feels like I've left something undone/unanswered if I just close the book on 27 years (and there were lots of good times in there too, even recently; but the bad ones outweigh them now, and trust has eroded); has anyone ever gotten any benefits from going the counseling route in this type of situation, or do the addictions make it a wasted effort?
Guest
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Northwest
Posts: 4,215
Hugs, sweetie...sorry I made you cry though.
I don't have experience with couples counseling so others will be more help there. You're the only one who can say if couples counseling (assuming he'd even participate) is something you need to do so you can say you tried everything or whether it's just another way to delay the inevitable?
Trust your gut.
I don't have experience with couples counseling so others will be more help there. You're the only one who can say if couples counseling (assuming he'd even participate) is something you need to do so you can say you tried everything or whether it's just another way to delay the inevitable?
Trust your gut.
Community Greeter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
card45.....generally, most couples therapists will not see a couple until and unless the addictions are reigned in...in the case of alcoholism..that means abstainence.....
They will, generally, recommend that each person enter individual therapy, instead (and a recovery program for the addiction).
I will go a step further, and say....that in a situation where there is abuse or a narcissistic Personality disorder....marriage counseling can, actually, be harmful to the partner.....(for a variety of reasons).....
this might ben be a mute point for narcissists, because, they are known as the most difficult to enter into therapy of any kind....for very long...unless court, ordered, etc.
In another vein---and, I am going to go out on a limb, here....I read between the lines, that your have a great fear of disrupting or ending the marriage...as you magine the disruption of l ife as it has been is too much of a mountain for you to endure o r climb....(your worst nightmare).....
That the known misery or discomfort is preferable to unknown discomforts..and, any "future tripping" that you may do, in the middle of the night, just intensifies these fears......?
I mention this, because that is a common situation......
Now, I do realize that these are not easy words to hear or easy questions to answer....
And, honestly, they are not even easy for me to write. I, generally, try to walk on the side of gentleness and compassion.....But, I can see how long you have struggled.....
I feel that you came here for some REAL help....and, I feel that you deserve to hear the truth, as much as we can present it to you.....
Reality can be really, really, tough...in fact, it can feel brutal...
But, one thing that I can tell you...is that your happiness will not come if you are not facing reality.....Reality, will always rise up and bite us on the behind, sooner or later, if we try to hide from it......
They will, generally, recommend that each person enter individual therapy, instead (and a recovery program for the addiction).
I will go a step further, and say....that in a situation where there is abuse or a narcissistic Personality disorder....marriage counseling can, actually, be harmful to the partner.....(for a variety of reasons).....
this might ben be a mute point for narcissists, because, they are known as the most difficult to enter into therapy of any kind....for very long...unless court, ordered, etc.
In another vein---and, I am going to go out on a limb, here....I read between the lines, that your have a great fear of disrupting or ending the marriage...as you magine the disruption of l ife as it has been is too much of a mountain for you to endure o r climb....(your worst nightmare).....
That the known misery or discomfort is preferable to unknown discomforts..and, any "future tripping" that you may do, in the middle of the night, just intensifies these fears......?
I mention this, because that is a common situation......
Now, I do realize that these are not easy words to hear or easy questions to answer....
And, honestly, they are not even easy for me to write. I, generally, try to walk on the side of gentleness and compassion.....But, I can see how long you have struggled.....
I feel that you came here for some REAL help....and, I feel that you deserve to hear the truth, as much as we can present it to you.....
Reality can be really, really, tough...in fact, it can feel brutal...
But, one thing that I can tell you...is that your happiness will not come if you are not facing reality.....Reality, will always rise up and bite us on the behind, sooner or later, if we try to hide from it......
Member
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Midwest
Posts: 11,481
Reality, will always rise up and bite us on the behind, sooner or later, if we try to hide from it......
Member
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 430
Hi Card,
My STBXAH and I went to counseling in the last years of our marriage, first as my ploy to get him to talk to a therapist who had experience with addictions (since he was in denial, despite the fact that his doctor told him alcohol was killing him), and then after I told him I was done, when we wanted to try to get to a less fraught state so that we could communicate about divorce issues.
Actually, to be honest, I think he went to that second round because he was hoping to talk me out of leaving him, and I went because I wanted the therapist's validation of my decision to leave.
It was painful both times, maybe more-so during the first go-round when I was really upset about his drinking and he was continuing to blame me for his choices.
But the second time, the therapist (also an addiction specialist) had my back. He heard me say that I was going to leave my STBXAH if he didn't quit drinking, and when my husband relapsed, he backed up my decision to leave. His support helped.
So, although I understand why therapists don't recommend marriage counseling when one person is in active addiction, from my experience I'd say it can be helpful. Not necessarily for the addict, perhaps, but for the person who's trying to break away.
My STBXAH and I went to counseling in the last years of our marriage, first as my ploy to get him to talk to a therapist who had experience with addictions (since he was in denial, despite the fact that his doctor told him alcohol was killing him), and then after I told him I was done, when we wanted to try to get to a less fraught state so that we could communicate about divorce issues.
Actually, to be honest, I think he went to that second round because he was hoping to talk me out of leaving him, and I went because I wanted the therapist's validation of my decision to leave.
It was painful both times, maybe more-so during the first go-round when I was really upset about his drinking and he was continuing to blame me for his choices.
But the second time, the therapist (also an addiction specialist) had my back. He heard me say that I was going to leave my STBXAH if he didn't quit drinking, and when my husband relapsed, he backed up my decision to leave. His support helped.
So, although I understand why therapists don't recommend marriage counseling when one person is in active addiction, from my experience I'd say it can be helpful. Not necessarily for the addict, perhaps, but for the person who's trying to break away.
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Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Far from Ideal
Posts: 5
Dandylion... deep words.... and yes, I am afraid of the unknown. Not that the present is a stroll in the park, but at least I found a way to function within it, warped as it is. With so much in my life up in the air, I'm desperately seeking some solid ground, somewhere... the marriage, a home, shelter, is the closest thing I've got right now, everything else is sand blowing around; it's hard to let it go.
But at the same time, I think back to the words of wisdom my father gave to me on my wedding day: very simple..... "Be Happy".
He passed away at the end of October.
Perhaps this all coming up now is his way of getting me to face what I need to.
Honeypig, I'm glad to hear that those toothmarks do heal - they sure hurt when you first get them!
Sauerkraut, I appreciate your sharing your counseling experience. I can't see that he'll be able to stop both addictions if we went for round 2; it would truly be a miracle if that happened. But there are some issues that I want to get closure on for me, so I can move forward without unanswered questions rattling around in my brain.
thanks again to all; going to try to get some sleep, health I have to keep a hold on....
But at the same time, I think back to the words of wisdom my father gave to me on my wedding day: very simple..... "Be Happy".
He passed away at the end of October.
Perhaps this all coming up now is his way of getting me to face what I need to.
Honeypig, I'm glad to hear that those toothmarks do heal - they sure hurt when you first get them!
Sauerkraut, I appreciate your sharing your counseling experience. I can't see that he'll be able to stop both addictions if we went for round 2; it would truly be a miracle if that happened. But there are some issues that I want to get closure on for me, so I can move forward without unanswered questions rattling around in my brain.
thanks again to all; going to try to get some sleep, health I have to keep a hold on....
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Join Date: May 2016
Location: east coast
Posts: 530
My father passed away in February 2006 and I felt his presence helping me along. I had decided to stay in the marriage to prevent the kids having to go to their father's house on the weekends. I had been a stay at home mother for 16 years. Anyway that year my father led me to the job I have today. I don't know if I could have left without my job and the loving support of my manager and coworkers. In the spring a coworker passed away and I feel as though her spirit helped me leave... It was right after the funeral I was thinking how short life is and what did I want the rest of my life to look like... And I decided... To give myself the gift of a break from the marriage. I have so much more peace and happiness. I do not miss the drama, the shaming, the guilting, the neglect, the abuse. Life is so much better. Most people treat me with kindness and respect. As to the other people, I cannot tell anyone else how to treat me but I do not have to stick around people who are unpleasant. I do have compassion for a suffering person, but I don't have the right to correct any one else, only myself.
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Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 276
Card, I could have written your post. I'm in the same boat- just a tiny bit further along in the process. I was a sahm for 17 years and when his addiction problems really came to a head I managed to find a job. We separated got back together and separated again. He was fired from his job and I don't think he's looking for work.
I believe he has stopped drinking but he is still emotionally unavailable. So, the one thing to take away from that is that I think my AH escaped through drinking and porn and strip clubs and it sounds like yours does, too. If you take away the porn and drinking you may have someone who is still really unable to connect in a normal way and have an intimate relationship.
I believe he has stopped drinking but he is still emotionally unavailable. So, the one thing to take away from that is that I think my AH escaped through drinking and porn and strip clubs and it sounds like yours does, too. If you take away the porn and drinking you may have someone who is still really unable to connect in a normal way and have an intimate relationship.
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