Generalizations
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Generalizations are often generally true. Some lie about more things than others. I know alcoholics who are basically honest about everything except their drinking. But for many of them lying gets to be a habit and they lie even when they don't have to, to protect their drinking.
It's actually a symptom of addiction and alcoholism. It's less a value judgment than an observation and something to be aware of when you are dealing with someone in active addiction.
It's actually a symptom of addiction and alcoholism. It's less a value judgment than an observation and something to be aware of when you are dealing with someone in active addiction.
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Originally Posted by Bekindalways 
Hi Choublak, I don't know if I quite understand. Can you give an example of what you mean?
"All addicts/alcoholics steal."
Things like that.
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Originally Posted by LexieCat
It's actually a symptom of addiction and alcoholism. It's less a value judgment than an observation and something to be aware of when you are dealing with someone in active addiction.
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Originally Posted by choublak
Oh okay. I was told I was "immature" for making such a generalization.
Some people's comments should be taken seriously, others w/the proverbial grain (or shaker) of salt...
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Originally Posted by honeypig
By whom? Someone well-informed and knowledgeable, whose opinion holds weight for you, or someone who doesn't know much about addiction/alcoholism?
Some people's comments should be taken seriously, others w/the proverbial grain (or shaker) of salt...
Some people's comments should be taken seriously, others w/the proverbial grain (or shaker) of salt...
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Well, I think it's a mistake to believe that all alcoholics lie constantly, about everything. I was one of those people scrupulously honest about everything EXCEPT where it touched my drinking. I've known many chronic, habitual liars who have no addiction problems at all.
So you can't be overly simplistic about it. People are complicated. But I think it's fair to say the vast, vast majority of alcoholics lie about issues concerning their drinking, at the very least, and for many, it affects every area of their lives.
So you can't be overly simplistic about it. People are complicated. But I think it's fair to say the vast, vast majority of alcoholics lie about issues concerning their drinking, at the very least, and for many, it affects every area of their lives.
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Well, the problem with generalizations, sometimes, is that they really don't apply universally. IME, not all addicts lie or cheat or steal. There are a few universal truths...we are all born to the Earth, and we will all eventually die to it as well.
It's kind of like those accusations made in an argument "You always..." or "You never...". Because, really, we don't 'always' or 'never' anything.
I'm learning to be more comfortable with the idea that with addiction, there are some very common traits and behaviors, but each person is different to a certain extent.
It's kind of like those accusations made in an argument "You always..." or "You never...". Because, really, we don't 'always' or 'never' anything.
I'm learning to be more comfortable with the idea that with addiction, there are some very common traits and behaviors, but each person is different to a certain extent.
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Originally Posted by Seren
Well, the problem with generalizations, sometimes, is that they really don't apply universally. IME, not all addicts lie or cheat or steal. There are a few universal truths...we are all born to the Earth, and we will all eventually die to it as well.
It's kind of like those accusations made in an argument "You always..." or "You never...". Because, really, we don't 'always' or 'never' anything.
I'm learning to be more comfortable with the idea that with addiction, there are some very common traits and behaviors, but each person is different to a certain extent.
It's kind of like those accusations made in an argument "You always..." or "You never...". Because, really, we don't 'always' or 'never' anything.
I'm learning to be more comfortable with the idea that with addiction, there are some very common traits and behaviors, but each person is different to a certain extent.
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Originally Posted by choublak
So...if someone says, of a coworker, that they "don't do anything" what does that mean?
It all depends. If, say, it is your subordinate who is ratting out another subordinate to you, the boss - could mean many things - they are concerned, they are backstabbing, who knows, you smile and nod and say "I understand you are frustrated, can you point to a specific example where person X showed to be unreliable and it affected your work?"
If the person is just a colleague - they probably just like to vent, you don't have to respond...
If it is directed at you - you can joke about it. I.e. I work from home quite a bit, and one guy (low performer) always makes snide remarks about it. I joke about laying on the couch in my fuzzy slippers. The truth is that I emerge from my home office with the project that was transferred to me from low performer guy, and it is finished in a week. He was dragging it out for a year. It does not really what he says - management is fully aware what I do. And obviously, I am aware as well. All it does is making him look bad.
The most difficult situation IMO is when you superior is complaining to you, subordinate, about your peer as "not doing anything" (the low performer guy mentioned above). Happens to me A LOT. I just sit and sip on my coffee with slight smile/neutral expression on my face. Not offering help or anything, until asked.
Truth is, there is no possible way to see who does what. Or how hard those things are for them to accomplish. Some tasks that take me 1 hour will take others a whole day. I stay on my side of the street and expect others to do so. When peers make comments on my hours/work - I gently remind them to "not to watch my clock lol smiley face" over instant messenger. Works like a charm - low performer guy no longer is making comments. Just remember to insert a smiley face at the end
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Originally Posted by Nata1980
Interesting question. And a pet peeve of mine.
It all depends. If, say, it is your subordinate who is ratting out another subordinate to you, the boss - could mean many things - they are concerned, they are backstabbing, who knows, you smile and nod and say "I understand you are frustrated, can you point to a specific example where person X showed to be unreliable and it affected your work?"
If the person is just a colleague - they probably just like to vent, you don't have to respond...
If it is directed at you - you can joke about it. I.e. I work from home quite a bit, and one guy (low performer) always makes snide remarks about it. I joke about laying on the couch in my fuzzy slippers. The truth is that I emerge from my home office with the project that was transferred to me from low performer guy, and it is finished in a week. He was dragging it out for a year. It does not really what he says - management is fully aware what I do. And obviously, I am aware as well. All it does is making him look bad.
The most difficult situation IMO is when you superior is complaining to you, subordinate, about your peer as "not doing anything" (the low performer guy mentioned above). Happens to me A LOT. I just sit and sip on my coffee with slight smile/neutral expression on my face. Not offering help or anything, until asked.
Truth is, there is no possible way to see who does what. Or how hard those things are for them to accomplish. Some tasks that take me 1 hour will take others a whole day. I stay on my side of the street and expect others to do so. When peers make comments on my hours/work - I gently remind them to "not to watch my clock lol smiley face" over instant messenger. Works like a charm - low performer guy no longer is making comments. Just remember to insert a smiley face at the end
It all depends. If, say, it is your subordinate who is ratting out another subordinate to you, the boss - could mean many things - they are concerned, they are backstabbing, who knows, you smile and nod and say "I understand you are frustrated, can you point to a specific example where person X showed to be unreliable and it affected your work?"
If the person is just a colleague - they probably just like to vent, you don't have to respond...
If it is directed at you - you can joke about it. I.e. I work from home quite a bit, and one guy (low performer) always makes snide remarks about it. I joke about laying on the couch in my fuzzy slippers. The truth is that I emerge from my home office with the project that was transferred to me from low performer guy, and it is finished in a week. He was dragging it out for a year. It does not really what he says - management is fully aware what I do. And obviously, I am aware as well. All it does is making him look bad.
The most difficult situation IMO is when you superior is complaining to you, subordinate, about your peer as "not doing anything" (the low performer guy mentioned above). Happens to me A LOT. I just sit and sip on my coffee with slight smile/neutral expression on my face. Not offering help or anything, until asked.
Truth is, there is no possible way to see who does what. Or how hard those things are for them to accomplish. Some tasks that take me 1 hour will take others a whole day. I stay on my side of the street and expect others to do so. When peers make comments on my hours/work - I gently remind them to "not to watch my clock lol smiley face" over instant messenger. Works like a charm - low performer guy no longer is making comments. Just remember to insert a smiley face at the end
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Originally Posted by choublak
I work in retail. The problem is if you get enough people saying it...
If it does not affect your work - I'd let it go.
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Are you talking someone who is active in their addiction, more in recovery?
I think while any addict is still active, then their AV (addictive voice) tends to take over and protect their next fix, whatever that fix may be. In the rooms of AA I'm yet to hear anyone say that they didn't do this to some degree or another.
In recovery then things can be quite amazingly different. To be honest, once I started property working a program of recovery, one of the things that shocked me about myself was just how often it seemed quite natural to fib. A lot of the time just to 'keep people happy ' (i now know that actually what I meant by that was 'manipulate the way people would think of me'), or 'just smooth things along' (read that as 'get what I wanted'), etc. Not all big lies. More just a constant drip drip of half-truths that left me flailing in my own Web of deceit and often meant I couldn't tell the true from the false about what I really thought or felt. I pray that I never go back to that way of living.
And abstaining / not doing anything is not the same as working a program of recovery.
I think while any addict is still active, then their AV (addictive voice) tends to take over and protect their next fix, whatever that fix may be. In the rooms of AA I'm yet to hear anyone say that they didn't do this to some degree or another.
In recovery then things can be quite amazingly different. To be honest, once I started property working a program of recovery, one of the things that shocked me about myself was just how often it seemed quite natural to fib. A lot of the time just to 'keep people happy ' (i now know that actually what I meant by that was 'manipulate the way people would think of me'), or 'just smooth things along' (read that as 'get what I wanted'), etc. Not all big lies. More just a constant drip drip of half-truths that left me flailing in my own Web of deceit and often meant I couldn't tell the true from the false about what I really thought or felt. I pray that I never go back to that way of living.
And abstaining / not doing anything is not the same as working a program of recovery.
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