vulturine

Did anyone else have previously existing maladaptive behaviours before substance abuse? I know substance abuse is often associated with other mental health issues, and that was part of what I was working on in therapy and rehab over the past year. I'm just curious because most of the posts I've seen on here I have seen have been focused on how substance abuse leads to other social and mental problems. I have borderline personality disorder, and display all 9 diagnostic criteria (you only need 5), so self-destruction is probably part of my programming.

I used to be anorexic for about 4 years. My lowest body mass index was 13.7 before I was hospitalized, but by that time I had lost around 45lbs and my size 0 pants were falling off my hip bones. I think my motivation at the time was that I wanted to look like a corpse. I used to enjoy being able to see all my bones through the skin, as sick as that sounds. The reason I got institutionalized in the psych hospital was because I had a sketchbook full of drawings of corpses, me dead, and mock suicide notes. Self-injury was another one that went on for a long time, even into my mid-twenties.

It seems that if I don’t have one problem, it’s something else. I can recover to some extent from alcoholism or an eating disorder, and no one would be able to tell, but self-injury is permanent. At some point I just said, F-it and got a bunch of tattoos of my artwork, which is all thanatophilia. I have an obsession with vultures, so that's a common theme.

Anyway, I just wanted to know if I was the only one who was just generally bad at dealing with life on here. I thought I'd ask because my best friend is bulimic and I can relate. She always complains about how much her teeth hurt, but she continues to throw up her food despite permanent negative functional and social consequences. It's obvious she's bulimic, her teeth are in very poor shape, as in no more enamel on what is left of them. It's the same drive with alcoholism, you KNOW it's doing you harm, but you can't stop.

This is probably going to be my last thread for a while. I've been posting pretty much daily over the past week when my hands were shaking almost too much to type, and I needed a distraction. I'm beginning to feel a lot better now. I'm confident this is the last time I have to do this to myself. I'm done. No more fights, arrests, lost time, or painful withdrawals.

Irnldy001

There's no question for me that I have had 'maladaptive' behaviours my entire life. Long long before I ever picked up alcohol (in my 30's). While alcohol rendered me senseless and ignorant, by behaviours by no means got better, I just couldn't remember what I had done or said.
Now sober some time, I see clearly that this has been me all along. I also have an eating disorder. It existed before alcoholism was in my life, and for a time I thought alcohol was part of my cure. Once I sobered up it was right there again with a bullseye on my back.
I never say or do the right thing.
I always think of the right thing hours or days after it has occured.
I have no idea that I'm oversharing and still do it constantly, despite many devices I am using to stop it.
I have lied many time to get attention, many many times in so many ways I am ashamed of. Not drunk. Just lying because I didn't feel 'seen' or 'liked'.
I would make up wild stories about others, gossip incessantly, and seemed to get joy out of the foibles of others. Judgement was my favourite game.
These are all things I still struggle with. The only difference is that I am exercising control over them. The thoughts come, and they still come all the time. The simplest method for me is the counting in my head before I say anything. I also have a quick question list before I speak or tell a story
1) Is it true?
2) Is it helpful?
3) Will it hurt?

I don't know how I got to be who I am, and I doubt the core of me can change altogether, but I am hoping that if I can continue to employ this, I will distance others less, and feel ok about myself each night when I go to sleep. Drinking no longer offers me the safe place it used to. For a number of years drinking seemed like an extended fabulous vacation that never ended. Then I got sober, and relapsed thinking it would take care of the pain. instead the awareness of what I was doing caused me even greater discomfort.

I rinsed and repeated this cycle a number of times before finally just giving it up.

That's a long way of answering 'yes" to your original question.

vulturine

This is something I'm concerned about now. I haven't eaten anything but black coffee/tea, miso soup and boiled cabbage since I sobered up. I keep telling myself it's because of my bleeding stomach ulcer, and that maybe I have a thiamine deficiency and sugar is bad for me, but then I'm falling into old habits of restriction and popping supplements instead of food again. I gained a lot of weight from alcohol, but I'm still considered underweight for my height.

My problem is that I have conversations in my head that create distorted images of people in my mind and influence my perceptions of them. It's all the result of my current mood and fluctuating self-image. It makes it difficult to interact with people who don't already know about me because I'll randomly show hostility for seemingly no reason. No idea how to check myself before I wreck myself.

Thanks for the reply, Irnldy001.

Meraviglioso

Hey vulterine, that sounds rough but you sound of sound mind, like you'd really like to address this. You have spoken before about your family being pretty solid financially, would they help you get into a long term rehab that would address not only the alcohol but the other stuff?
When I was in rehab there was a group of people there for borderline personality disorder. They committed to a 9 month stay and were really a solid group of people, mostly in their 20's who were committed to working on this. They had daily DBT therapy and individual therapy for other things that they were dealing with. One girl had an eating disorder. At meal times she had a table by herself, not with the group and there was a sign on the table. On one sign it said "DO NOT ASK ME ABOUT THIS SIGN AND DO NTO LOOK AT ME OR DISTURB ME WHILE I AM EATING" On the other side, I don't know what it said, When I was walking by one time I saw a list of things and I saw her reading through it at the table while she ate. I would see this group, they became a really tight group of friends, meeting in the public areas to work on homework or group work outside of the meetings. They had more freedoms that us alcoholics, after a trial period they were able to leave the facility for short trips out and would sometimes go together into town. It seemed to be a good program.
You have said you have no where you really feel like living now, problems with alcohol, suffer from an eating disorder and also suffer from BPD, why not go away for a while and be completely taken care of and get help with all of this. If your family can afford if I am sure you can find some great places and come out much happier,healthier mentally,, sober and at a healthy weight.

Delizadee

I ditto a lot of what lrnldy said. Much of the same has been true for me.
I also like what Mera said. If you feel so wretchedly stuck and you have the means to find a good rehab centre, and if your parents support you, why not start looking into that?
The treatment program I'm going into is a 6 week program and they are going to be facilitating working on my eating disorder as well through mental health during my stay.
I'm also dealing with the bipolar/bpd spectrum. Exactly where I fall on that I am not sure as I need to get reassessed. It's a daily struggle. But removing the alcohol was a good choice and after 21 years of beating up my body I'm starting to get a little more clarity and courage to start tackling these things.

And yes, I'm bad at dealing with life and a lot of these self-destructive problems (I think of them as the flight or fight syndrome) goes way back as far as I can remember. I am very fearful of confrontation. So my usual reaction is to runaway, to escape. The drinking, eating disorder, gambling, sex, way back when I cut, suicidal ideation or acts, the excessiveness of any and all other activities is very often turned into some kind of obsessive compulsive act that affects my life, my mental health or my health in a bad way.

I have been writing more in depth about my eating disorder with my addictions counselor because she wants to learn more about it. She had once struggled with anorexia but is recovered and knows little about the way bulimia functions and she's eager to learn. It's really uncomfortable putting things out there on paper and just doing a brain dump about the things which are cloaked in so much secrecy, shame, and other extremely conflicting emotions. I think it's the struggle between thinking we're not enough, and believing the space we inhabit is too much. I think the emotional conflict perpetuates the cycle. We can control how we feel by controlling this body we inhabit.
I get what you mean lrnldy about drinking being an extended vacation from all that stuff. What sucks is when the vacation is over and everywhere you go, there you are. Peeling away the layers of "bad coping mechanisms" only to find more and more to overcome.
I don't think we hit recovery until we find balance in all areas of our lives. I am not talking perfect balance but the difference between clinging to a thought that no longer serves us, and having faith in a higher power, in ourselves, and letting go of some of the turmoil and learning to be ok with who we are and how to love ourselves.
I can't talk or think about this stuff properly. I'm not in a good place myself either right now. My sobriety is rock solid but I'm pretty unhealthy otherwise. I've started so many posts and just closed them down. I'm still trying to figure my own stuff out.
Progress, never perfection. I think stepping out of the shadows is a good place to start.
You are definitely not alone.

Berrybean

This is why working a solid plan of recovery is so important. Otherwise we either fall back to alcohol or drugs (whatever our poison was) or transfer it so some other obsessive and compulsive behaviour.

Might be work exploring OA (overeaters anon) literature. It's not just for overeaters. More, people who use food (consumption or restriction or whatever) to control their feelings. Plenty of double winners amongst us here. Codies, eaters, gamblers, harmers, sex addicts, relationship addicts, and more.

courage2

Thanks for this thoughtful and helpful thread.

vulturine

My parents already spent a ton of money on my screwiness. They sent me to a research mental hospital, then to an eating disorder clinic, years of independent psychiatrists and a DBT specialist. My mom said I should go where Rob Ford (the famous cracked out/drunk mayor of Toronto! RIP) went, but I was afraid of being locked up again. My boss even suggested some really nice places he was going to pay for me to go to, but I didn't get back to him about it. I get bored and frustrated at those places. I think I'm finished with therapy. I am in no greater understanding of myself than when I started. Talk therapy is BS. I can accomplish the same thing by writing letters to myself every day, which I do. If I was allowed to go back to the DBT therapist, I would, but I screwed that up by threatening her to my councilor at rehab. :s

Honestly, I think what would help me out the most is if I could make some new friends. Isolation is killer. My boyfriend doesn't count, I hardly ever see or talk to him. I don't even love him anymore, he's just loyal and responsible and willing to put up with my BPD ********.

Thanks for sharing and providing such a detailed reply Delizadee. I tried throwing up once in the eating disorder clinic after a meal, but they were watching the cameras and the nurse came and got me out. It was either drink the Ensure or "the tube". Hated that place.

Berrybean, I watched The Man Who Ate Himself to Death a couple nights ago. It was kind of sad. You keep thinking, "dude, how about not eating deep fried battered bananas?" but he couldn't, and then he died. The doctor compared overeaters to alcoholics. It's the same reward centre activation we're looking for.

EndGameNYC

When things go well in life, meaning we learn to take responsibility for ourselves and particularly for our feelings and for our behavior, there are some psychiatric problems that lose some of their steam, sometimes a lot of it. It's just too difficult and too depleting to sustain BPD, bipolar depression of the manic type, and eating disorders throughout the life span. Maybe we grow tired of it, stop fighting it in ways that only make things worse, stop running away from it. Or maybe it just dies of natural causes.

It's been my experience that we can bring upon symptoms by the way we think of ourselves, the way we engage the world, the way we treat/neglect/abuse ourselves. We can certainly make much worse symptoms that have already emerged. This is especially true in cases of anxiety and depression. Anxiety is, after all, an negative prediction that something bad is going to happen, a control issue that tells us that if we make ourselves suffer in advance with our anxiety, then whatever terrible thing we imagine is going to happen cannot be worse than the pain which we inflict upon ourselves. I am in control of my suffering. Settling for stale bread crumbs when I'm starving for something more.

Depression is more like a precipitous drop in self-esteem that has already happened, introducing and endorsing feelings of helplessness and hopelessness. Nothing I do is ever good enough, and it's because of who I am. Why bother? Anyone who's suffered an episode of major depression knows how excruciating the experience can be, and how devastating are its consequences. There simply is no other experience that comes close to the kind of living death in which major depression traps us, seemingly with no escape, and so much so that we just stop trying. Try changing your attitude about yourself and about life when you're afflicted with extreme anxiety or depression and you'll know why it's so difficult to change someone else.

The thing about depression is that the best remedy tends to reside in the process of talking about it with someone who can help you heal. And, if needed, to introduce medication into the process. As well meaning as they may be, friends and family are simply not up to the task for a variety of reasons, and medication alone rarely works. To use your expression, we learn and later hold onto with everything we have a range of maladaptive behaviors that cannot be unlearned using medication alone. These behaviors become the only thing we know, the only thing we trust, the only thing we can "rely" on, and there is no force of nature that will wrest them free from us. This, I believe, is true generally about the maladaptive and self-defeating behaviors that accrue from living with psychiatric symptoms. It's only one reason why healing is so difficult.

Many people who suffer from clinical depression don't even know it. It's their identity, and you cannot just change someone else's identity or, worse, take it away from them (which is what they experience when people try to help) by bringing their self-destructive tendencies to their attention. I didn't know until I was forty years old following the consecutive deaths of two people within a few months of each other who I loved and cared for that I'd been depressed in varying degrees for most of my life. I got into therapy for more than a year after that before hitting a wall that just wouldn't give. I'd been holding out against medication during that time until there was nothing more I could do in therapy alone. The two treatments together saved my life.

Another thing that worked was getting sober. I used a program of recovery that involved face-to-face involvement and support. Someone had the nerve to suggest that I'd have to do something in order to get sober, and that I'd also have to change the most important things in my life to get to a better place. The principles of the program were and remain psychologically sound. I swallowed any and all reservations I had about some of the principles of the program because I believed that if I didn't do something right at that moment, I was going to die of a broken heart. Personal convictions, beliefs that never got me anywhere in life, and my resistance to the thinking of other people who had healed meant nothing to me when I felt as though I was dying. It just didn't make sense. So I threw all that away and got better instead.

To answer your question, and in retrospect, I think that most of my behaviors were maladaptive before I ever got sober. I was lost and alone. I had a good heart, but I had no way of knowing that at the time, and I wouldn't have known what to do with it anyway. But, again in retrospect, I was always a fighter, though I was too often merciless when I didn't do as well as I would have liked to in different situations in my life. I compensated with a version of perfectionism that reflected my self-loathing, as it so often does, and that ruined me and other people in my life. I needed to unlearn all of that and take responsibility for my unhappiness. This, again, changed with my getting sober, the way I got sober, and how I started to live after I did.

Nothing in nature grows in a straight line. When I stopped taking care of myself and living according to what I knew was good and right for me, my attitude changed much for the worse starting at around twelve or thirteen years of sobriety, until I finally picked up the drink again after twenty five years. I almost did kill myself by drinking for the three years in which I once again lost everything and everyone near and dear to me. I didn't want to stop that time, and only had to because I could no longer function.

I got sober again, and traded in my pursuit of happiness for working towards a sense of purpose in life. Happiness, I think, is more about satisfying certain personal needs -- sex, hunger, accumulating money and other things -- and, as such, is always fleeting, and always empty of the things we need to nourish ourselves in life. Meaning or purpose has more to do with having a reason to get out of bed every day, to push and challenge ourselves in ways that we either ran from or to which we only gave efforts of the half-assed variety, again experiencing failure based on an absence of belief in ourselves and what we do is more important than the eventual outcome of our efforts. Decorating the Christmas tree was always so much more fun than looking at the finished product.

I've learned that as I'm aging in sobriety, I'm more interested in giving my time and energy to things in life that can help reduce other people's suffering than I am in enriching myself in any particular way. I don't even care much about what I'll do and how much money I'll have when I retire. That's down the line, and I don't intend on living forever. I had at least two chances at life, and it only makes things better for me when I have an opportunity to give something back. Not having children of my own, I think such a transformation is crucial in order to keep on going. It's probably an important thing even if you have kids.

My life hasn't been that bad, and it's become something that's provided me with such a strong sense of meaning, a place in the Universe, that it's very difficult for me to regret any of it. At least not like I used to. All because I got sober. Really.

Emzeh

Dont think I was malapdative as such, I think I was just generally the awkward kid. Moved up fron southern England to north and got plonked in a school. Was abused I guess by my first boyfriend. Self harmed with bad scars on my arms now but looking back would never try to hide them. I think overall I class myself as lucky? I had a generic ****** teenage life I think?

FreedomCA

Sorry to hear about your struggles. I have found in the past that working the 12 steps honestly and thoroughly has helped me work through a lot of mental health issues.

Meraviglioso

Vulterine, I've got two separate things to say, that have different tones to them, both from the heart and with only your well being in mind. I am writing here because I CARE about you.

First, read EndGame's post, a couple of times if you can. He always has such wise thing to say. Now read it again.

Secondly, Do you want to get better or do you want to live this miserable half-life for years to come? Make the call to your boss, put in the effort. You are in a different place now. You are participating here daily, you have aged out of some of that old, youthful behaviour and are in a better spot to try and help yourself. Trust me, I'm a parent. if my child came to me, sincerely and said, I am sorry for all the wasted hospital visits and tries at getting better but really, I want it this time, can we try again? I would absolutely find a way to help.
Get over yourself. (just tough talk, being kind here ) Talk therapy helps million and it can help you too. You have a whole hour of someone dedicated to YOU and your problems. What could be better? It you go to inpatient rehab, you are surrounded by a team who is there to help you work on all of this stuff.

You have two options. Live a miserable, whiny, problem filled life that goes no where, with no one who understands, the inability to function amongst healthy, happy people. Or- get some help with all your stuff and live the life you deserve. You can get a great job in science, you can start drawing again and explore your art, you can have healthy, meaningful relationships. You can.

Irnldy001

Vulturine
I am in the middle of combatting the struggle you describe (not to the letter, but enough boxes ticked).
You and I also share some geography.
I had to wait a fair amount of time before going to outpatient treatment here (in Ontario) as the wait lists for ED/dual diagnosis can be exhaustingly long. Taking care of myself during the wait was really difficult. I had lost a lot of weight. I was feeling miserable. I was spiralling, but without alcohol. That would be the only good thing I could say about the time. But I was still very stuck inside my head, self loathing, pitying, etc.
Due to my circumstances, I could not go to inpatient (though I did put my name on three lists). The outpatient came up first and I decided that it had the best chance of putting me on my feet and keeping me with my family.
For me it was the best choice. My treatment is covered under our Ontario Health Plan. It's all helpful. I am slowly climbing out of this thing and some days feel almost....normal. Some days I am low.

But how I feel now is infinitely better than the sad cycle I was in before I began. There are women in the program further along than me, and it does ease my mind to see how they are now approaching their lives. Some of them laugh so easily..... Of course we are all different people with different personalities. Many of them identify as 'pleasers' which I don't. I identify mostly as selfish and self-centered.

The long and the short is (as someone with ED/Alcohol issues) we can keep going the way we are going and keep hurting the bodies we are in, or we can give in and get the help that is out there. The best thing that has happened to me so far, are the minutes and hours when I am not stuck hating myself in my head. It's not all day, but it's a liberation of sorts that I love. Anyone, including you can at least get that level of peace.

Delizadee

I feel incredibly uncomfortable talking publicly or even out loud face to face with one person about my eating disorder. There have been only a handful of people personally and professionally in life where I've felt comfortable enough to do so.

But, the thing is, I know that I don't want to live this way forever. Or anymore really. I'm slowly building up a foundation of support to deal with this and in safe environments where I know I will feel comfortable enough to be courageous in small ways to start getting honest about this. To apply the steps and work a program of recovery in all things in my life. I'm starting to feel the small miracles, blessings, and positivity in my life through the extensive work I've done in regards to the alcoholism. I KNEW at some point that if I was truly tired of the drinking I would have to put my life on hold and put at the very least, double the work into my sobriety that I put into my drinking. I had to throw literally all my tools in my toolkit at it at once, fully immerse myself and work the program the way it needs to be worked before things started to click.

Vulturine, Endgame is wise and he speaks truly. I think with time we all get sick of these behaviours and there comes a tipping point where we either do everything we can to change it by finding a connection and a purpose. Or we give up, we merely trudge and exist through life and eventually die feeling empty and full of regret at never having really lived.

When I got tired enough of the struggle, which was about 10 years into the ED, I picked up my search for any and all avenues I could pursue to help me with my struggles, all my struggles. Eventually my problems were compounded with drinking, but the same thing happened with my drinking- I couldn't sustain it anymore. I knew the only block to getting better was ME. I knew it was going to be hard to find the help I needed and I struggled for 3 years getting some good guidance. But if you push hard enough, long enough, you get stronger and start gaining traction.
Things start coming together when You stop giving up on yourself. Doors open to you where there had previously been brick walls. Eventually these struggles become a spring board to learning how to cope with other troubles, and learning how to live a better, healthier life. At least, this is what I am living.
You have to have willingness. Have an open mind. And be willing to accept you can't control this alone, and you don't know everything.
I KNOW you are not wholeheartedly folded to the broken soul idea.
Because you are opening up about it here. I spent the better part of 15 years alone, in the shadows, miserable, depressed, lost in a fog. But there was always, always a part of me that knew my purpose in life and it kept me going long enough that I got a good grasp on what recovery meant.
It also clicked inside me today that I never really lost my connection to my higher power, just that I was to stuck in the chaos in my head to listen properly.
When I think about my falling to my knees moment and sobbing for help alone in my kitchen (how many of us have been there?) and that quiet voice inside me whispered to me. Cry, let it out. Then get up and help yourself. You have the answers. You can do it. It's going to be ok.

You don't need to believe in anything in particular to know when you start connecting your heart, your head and the world around you, you bring yourself to a place of potential and healing. Part of that is learning what faith is and trusting that if you open yourself up to the examples and suggestions of other things and people and do the work, you can start filling the void with love.


7 "Ask, and it will be given you. Seek, and you will
find. Knock, and it will be opened for you.
8 For everyone who asks receives. He who seeks
finds. To him who knocks it will be opened.
- Matthew 7:7-8

It's true. As long as you don't give up on yourself, as long as you open your mind and your heart, as long as you take those steps, big or small, there is always hope.
Anyways. That's what I believe. I've been doing a lot of introspection lately and I know I'm only touching the tip of the iceberg still in recovery. But I also know I have made some incredible leaps and strides with everything I've put into my recovery (as a whole) and with the help and guidance I've found and been given in the past 3 months than I ever have in my life.

Nothing's perfect and that's ok. It's steps forward and even if I'm still at the start it's hopeful. Scary at times, and exciting. There is still a lot for me to learn about true faith, hope and love.

Anyways, there's another short novel for today. When it comes to writing about these things specifically I generally have to just brain dump and post and not read it or I won't post at all. It's kind of a toss and duck. lol. Nobody likes to feel alone in battle. We're not a one-man army.

lovespell

I too have BPD as a diagnosis. BPD is very hard to treat because the symptoms manifest across the range and mimic many different disorders. I have seen many different therapists and been treated from everything from panic disorder to OCD to rapid cycling bipolar. I finally found someone who knows about BPD and knows how to assist in treating it. Alcohol was the only thing that helped and the biggest cause of all my problems. I binge drink. Because that is the self destructive nature in me. When I tried other things well..anything I always go overboard. I am thankful I never did drugs. In light of my recent behaviors I have finally realized that if everything is calm I do something to create chaos. This has finally come to a head. While alcohol had once helped me cope it has now destroyed me. I am finally tired of living like this and I am working very hard now to get a life that I want once my legal woes are over. I relate to you completely and never thought I would be here. But I am and that is only because something greater than me stopped me. I am not religious but I can explain in it no other way. There is hope. Because all you have sometimes is just a tiny bit of hope.

lovespell

I too have BPD as a diagnosis. BPD is very hard to treat because the symptoms manifest across the range and mimic many different disorders. I have seen many different therapists and been treated from everything from panic disorder to OCD to rapid cycling bipolar. I finally found someone who knows about BPD and knows how to assist in treating it. Alcohol was the only thing that helped and the biggest cause of all my problems. I binge drink. Because that is the self destructive nature in me. When I tried other things well..anything I always go overboard. I am thankful I never did drugs. In light of my recent behaviors I have finally realized that if everything is calm I do something to create chaos. This has finally come to a head. While alcohol had once helped me cope it has now destroyed me. I am finally tired of living like this and I am working very hard now to get a life that I want once my legal woes are over. I relate to you completely and never thought I would be here. But I am and that is only because something greater than me stopped me. I am not religious but I can explain in it no other way. There is hope. Because all you have sometimes is just a tiny bit of hope.

vulturine

I was busy for a few days, so haven't logged on. Will be sending individual replies when I get around to it. Thanks for looking.

Acheleus

I used alcohol to hurt myself. When I was drinking I hated myself and I felt like I deserved punishment. When I was 20 I used other means of hurting myself physically. Today I work on loving myself and telling myself that I deserve love and respect.