terall

Someone I love very much is dying. It's not nice to see, as they are in a lot of pain now, not eating, sleeping a lot and the end isn't far away.
As predicted in AVRT, the Beast is making a re-emergence.
It sickens me, the Beast flexing it's grubby little muscles, wanting the pleasure of drink, under the guise of whining for something to soothe the pain.
Pain is a part of life. And pain is, well, painful.
Shows what a ruthless, destructive, conniving, self seeking monster this Beast of mine is.
It will never get drink again, I don't care what pain I have to live through, It will never again feel the pleasure It gets from drink.

GerandTwine

terall,

I hope this person is not too young. In any case, you definitely have got what it takes to make it through this. Your post leads me to think of the following:

1 - Suffering the emotional sorrow of having a loved one die is a very necessary experience. I see no reason to hide tears. The Addictive Voice, though, would love to have us mitigate that experience with the assault of pleasure and chemically enhanced stupidity. But I believe that would be a huge insult to the dying person.

2 - When someone is in physical pain, prescribed painkillers make sense. But I am aware that my Beast would actually prefer to have my life abbreviated with a serious physical problem because that would mean it could regain that wonderful pleasure from opiates.

GT

terall

Well, this person isn't exactly old, but that's the price of loving someone, the pain of losing them and even though I am going to lose them, I wouldn't have missed out on loving them for the world. I hear what you are saying about the Beast, it really doesn't have any reasoning facilities at all. Just the sheer pursuit of pleasure.
I had a hard time coming to terms with this hard fact when I first started reading Trimpeys book. I didn't drink for pleasure, I drank because I was stressed, because I was depressed, because I wanted to be numb, blah, blah blah said the Beast. But, I realised it was true, I drank for that first buzz. Alcohol doesn't numb me, it gives me a buzz. It doesn't take away stress, it just gives me a buzz to enjoy instead and it doesn't help with depression, just helps with getting a buzz on.
If it really did not give me that initial buzz to enjoy, I wouldn't have done it. It caused me so much trouble, but for the buzz, I would have found another way to relieve stress, I would have got anti-depressants for depression and the only time I have ever felt numb is novocane at the dentist, and I wouldn't want that feeling all over my body and mind! But of course, those were just excuses the AV came up with for why I should drink.
I agree, your Beast would think the thought of pain is nothing (as it doesn't remember any pain) compared with the buzz It would get from the opitates (which it does remember) so would happily wish pain upon you to get It's fix

As for where I am now, why would I want to feel chemically induced pleasure at the saddest point of my life so far? It would be a massive insult to my loved one, as you say.

soberlicious

Yes! This is what really disgusts me...the fact that my beast would use such a tragic time when I need to be present for someone else as an excuse for it's own selfish desire. It cares for nothing but alcohol. It will gleefully use tragedy to get what it wants.

terall

Soberlicious, it disgusts me too that I spent so many years serving my Beasts desire for alcohol, above the needs of the people I love. It will never happen again. There is never any reason to drink, apart from this driving desire to, and just because you feel the desire of the Beast sometimes, that is still no reason at all, but there are plenty of reasons not to. Reading on this forum, reinforces that for me at this time when I feel a little vunerable, emotionally. I may feel vunerable at the moment, but there is no danger I will drink because I think I have developed a hatred of the Beasts desire to drink that is stronger than It's urges to drink.

Algorithm

Jack T. uses this very example in his AVRT course, to get people to see that the Beast just wants the pleasure. He asks what the street value of Novocain is. Well, $0, of course. What self-respecting Beast would want to feel only numb, without that deep, pleasurable buzz?

terall

Yes, thats where I stole that analogy from, the book! Saying I wanted to "numb out" bad feelings was my prime excuse for drinking, and when I read what he had to say about that, it brought me to my senses and I knew for certain I was fooling myself with that one, and I didn't actually want to be numb, or feel nothing, I wanted to feel good! Which sold me on AVRT, because I found everything he said about drinking to get the buzz, and no other reason, to be true when I honestly looked at myself. Which of course lead me to seperate the true me from the Beast, and freed me from the parasite.

terall

My problem I am having at the moment, is I am already grieving over the loss of my loved one, and grieving for what they have lost and the pain and distress they are in. I feel helpless. My Beast, with the increased activity I have been experiencing since the last test results came back very bad, and the deterioration of their condition, is gleeful, shouting through the AV, you really think you'll be able to cope with this without a drink?
I am very lucky in that I have gotton to my 40s and never lost anyone close to me through death before.
My Beast suggesting drinking and my grieving are two different things. The Beast is stuck in one mode of operation. It offers no solutions, it offers no comfort, it just offers it's own agenda of lets get a buzz on.
That in no way helps me for this situation, or any other, so it is discounted. Just realising this has quieted It a lot.

GerandTwine

While it was important for me to know the 'deep pleasure' was the reason I kept on drinking even though my life was going to 'hell in a handbasket', once I made the Big Plan, I never dwelled on that pleasure again (except in some dreaming). It was the Big Plan that made the immediate dissconnect from spending unnecessary time on AVRT.

GerandTwine

I noticed this earlier, but only now decided to mention it. I have an automatic reflex to present tense verbs when I hear people who have made a Big Plan talk about drinking, even rhetorically. Notice how you appropriately speak of drinking in the past tense, but then continue on in the present tense. I consider that to be the Addictive Voice sneaking in with the help of our overall societal brainwashing of one day at a time.

Use of the present tense sets the field for an ongoing debate. Left in the past tense, the debate cannot even begin.

terall

Yes, I see that plainly now you have pointed that out, how the tense changed!
The thought of drinking holds no pleasure for me now, it hasn't for years, I don't associate drink with pleasure, but I am aware, it is all my Beast wants, the reason for it's existence.
The thing I liked about AVRT, was just as you stated, I didn't have to spend time dwelling on it these past five years, after I made my Big Plan, any Beast activity, disconnected myself right away, until it became non-existent. And it did become non existent. Was a bit taken by surprise, at first when it popped up again, but I suppose that's understandable given the circumstances I am dealing with now, it was bound to take It's chance.
I do find self-talk very important, so it's massively important I stay in the past tense with anything to do with past drinking just to get the message across that there will NEVER be any debating about future use. Thanks again for pointing that out.

terall

Thank you for your input on this thread GeraldTwine and Algorithm, I didn't really have any intentions of joining a recovery site, just came across the AVRT bit of this site during a google search for something else.
It has though, helped me straighten out a few things.
I am sound now though, so I'll bid you adios

terall

Sorry, thanks you too soberlicious
 

GerandTwine

You're totally welcome terall; a big thanks to you, too; and a very pleasant goodbye.

GT

soberlicious

I just want to say I'm so sorry about your friend, terall.

terall

It's my father, but thank you soberlicious x

soberlicious

So sorry, terall. Losing someone we love is so painful. I wish none of us had to go through it.

freshstart57

You are, and always will be, most welcome here, Terall. Best to you.

terall

Hi Freshstart, I still intend to read the avrt threads on this forum, when they come up, I am not planning on becoming a part of the site community as a whole though. I find, and it's a personal opinion, that you find a lot of Beast activity on general mixed methods of abstaining from alcohol forums.
I am not of the mind, of take what you need from one method and leave the rest, mix and match, if you will. To me, you lose a lot of what any method offers, if you just pick out the bits that you like and feel comfortable with and leave what you don't like, sort of half-assed way of going about things.
But thats just me.
I do like to read other peoples perspectives on avrt stuff though, always interesting.

freshstart57

If you wish to restrict yourself to discussion of non-secular sobriety approaches, you can be assured that is all you will find here in this subforum. I would guess that upwards of 80% of the discussion here is about AVRT. Discussion of 12 step approaches is not permitted here. On the other hand, the newcomers and alcoholism forums are open and all modes are up for discussion.

While 'take what you need etc.' may not make sense when discussing sobriety methods, you might find it appropriate when applied to SoberRecovery.com.