I need a bit of support today
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Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: USA
Posts: 202
I need a bit of support today
Hi All,
Am having a very rough day today.
To recap my story for those of you who don't know my story, after many many months of alcohol abuse by my ex-wife, she ended up in hospital multiple times. In the most serious alcohol incident, she was less than 24 hours from death and the nurses and doctors managed to save her life.
She then got sober for a few months. Things got back on track, she made amends etc, and our relationship was back to how it was before the alcohol abuse. Her true self re-emerged.
After a few months sober, then relapsed with alcohol. The relapse was shocking. She ended up in hospital again.
She was drinking in secret outside of our home then coming home drunk and abusing me.
Over the next few months during this relapse I was subjected to severe verbal and emotional abuse, and frequent threats of violence. I was subjected to her abuse for many months, to the point that I ended up with PTSD symptoms. Then I was assaulted in our home by my ex in a drunken rage.
I was then advised that her drinking had reached the point that it was likely she would die unless something was done, and was advised to get her to rehab rightaway.
When I blew the whistle on her secret drinking, and tried to organise an intervention with her family of origin in order to get her into rehab, I was blamed for her drinking, scapegoated, and her family of origin turned on me.
She claimed the problem was not alcohol, but the stress that "made her drink". The finger of blame for that stress was then pointed at me. I was treated as if I was an abuser who had "driven his wife to drink". In reality I had stuck by her through years of alcohol abuse and abuse of me. Her friends knew what she had been putting me through.
In a ludicrous pretense that she needed to be protected from non-existent verbal abuse from me ... when in reality I had been assaulted by her ... "no contact" was then used like a weapon against me, in a similar way as talked about in this article ...
The Narcissistic Continuum: The Appropriation of "No Contact": When Narcissists use "No Contact" against YOU
A quote from that article ...
Her friends who witnessed her alcohol abuse have always been in my corner about it all. Her best friend describes the way I have been treated by her and one of her relatives as "a disgrace".
After many months apart, she got back in contact with me. She seemed a lot better. We had some absolutely lovely conversations for a few months. There was no abuse at all. She seemed to have empathy for me again.
I then mentioned in passing that I had been struggling with the trauma of what had occurred when she was drinking. She immediately launched into an attack on me. I then started getting the silent treatment again.
A few weeks ago, a relative of my ex-wife contacted me and told me that my ex has stopped drinking some time ago (presumably by using medication) and is now herself again. But she seemed to not be in a recovery program - there seemed to be no honest inventory of behavior, no apology, and no making amends. I wasn't sure if she was in early recovery or just not working the steps.
Curious as to if she was doing better (and in hindsight, foolishly) I reached out to my ex, with a heartfelt email.
In reply to my email, I have received a very upsetting email reply which just tears into me. It is grossly judgemental and completely lacking any compassion for what she put me through.
I could not have sent a more compassionate message.
In return I am being abused. Her email is a gross lecture ripping into me.
It criticizes me and my decisions over and over again ... this from a woman whose decisions were to continue drinking despite multiple visits to hospital, multiple serious injuries as a result of her drinking, and at one point being less than 24 hours from death in hospital.
Her email is like a case study in denial, in which an alcoholic pretends that their drinking was never any kind of problem whatsoever, and in which the blame for the problems that occurred as a direct result of her drinking is projected onto the sober spouse.
In the email it is as if she is placing herself above me, as if she has been vaulted into a position of superiority from which she has some kind of right to look down on me and cast her toxic judgement on me.
As detailed in the article ... https://www.discoveryplace.info/dry-...drunk-recovery ...
I have realised today that it is time for me to stop hoping and to stop holding out olive branches. Any time I try to hold out an olive branch, it results in me being attacked and blamed again, which retraumatizes me and I end up with my PTSD symptoms getting worse again.
Today for the first time ever, I feel like I am absolutely done with it all. I've had enough of the abuse. I've had enough of hoping for change. I've had enough of being crushed over and over again. I've had enough of the genuine love I feel for her being used against me as a weapon to hurt me. This has gone on long enough. For her to still treat me in this way after I have been loyally hoping for change for so long, and years of doing everything I could to support her, is completely unacceptable.
At this point, I can't hope for change anymore. It hurts too much to see this complete lack of empathy and extreme judgment of me from a woman who was once my soulmate.
I feel like if at this point she still doesn't get it, and still doesn't have the self awareness to have any kind of compassion or empathy for the severe damage she did to me and my mental health, then she is never going to.
I'm sick of making excuses to myself for her behavior. This latest email from her is just more abuse of me. And I am sick of that abuse of me making me ill.
Whether the years of alcohol abuse have destroyed her empathy, or if it is a behavioural part of alcoholism, matters little at this point - the reality is that she is no longer the same person she once was. She is not the person I fell in love with. She is someone else now.
And the icing on the cake of her email is that she pours crap all over me at great length, a complete character assassination, a tirade of toxic abuse with no compassion whatsoever for me, then she ends the email by demanding that I not contact her ... thereby allowing her to be the aggressor and abuse me yet again, and then when she is finished abusing me again, to prevent me replying in any way she retreats back into the fake victim role again and demands no contact. I feel absolutely disgusted by it.
It is like someone smashing me in the face with a baseball bat repeatedly then with me in pain from that attack, the attacker immediately jumping behind a big "no contact" sign, immediately flipping back into the lie of pretending that I am an abuser and demanding no contact to "protect" themselves.
Am having a very rough day today.
To recap my story for those of you who don't know my story, after many many months of alcohol abuse by my ex-wife, she ended up in hospital multiple times. In the most serious alcohol incident, she was less than 24 hours from death and the nurses and doctors managed to save her life.
She then got sober for a few months. Things got back on track, she made amends etc, and our relationship was back to how it was before the alcohol abuse. Her true self re-emerged.
After a few months sober, then relapsed with alcohol. The relapse was shocking. She ended up in hospital again.
She was drinking in secret outside of our home then coming home drunk and abusing me.
Over the next few months during this relapse I was subjected to severe verbal and emotional abuse, and frequent threats of violence. I was subjected to her abuse for many months, to the point that I ended up with PTSD symptoms. Then I was assaulted in our home by my ex in a drunken rage.
I was then advised that her drinking had reached the point that it was likely she would die unless something was done, and was advised to get her to rehab rightaway.
When I blew the whistle on her secret drinking, and tried to organise an intervention with her family of origin in order to get her into rehab, I was blamed for her drinking, scapegoated, and her family of origin turned on me.
She claimed the problem was not alcohol, but the stress that "made her drink". The finger of blame for that stress was then pointed at me. I was treated as if I was an abuser who had "driven his wife to drink". In reality I had stuck by her through years of alcohol abuse and abuse of me. Her friends knew what she had been putting me through.
In a ludicrous pretense that she needed to be protected from non-existent verbal abuse from me ... when in reality I had been assaulted by her ... "no contact" was then used like a weapon against me, in a similar way as talked about in this article ...
The Narcissistic Continuum: The Appropriation of "No Contact": When Narcissists use "No Contact" against YOU
A quote from that article ...
"There are several reasons why No Contact has been appropriated by narcissists. ... Narcissists also have a desire to punish those who fail them, criticize them, trigger their shame. On the surface, No Contact may appear to be warranted and people support narcissist's convincing claims; but beneath their pretense of self-protection is hostility, aggression, and varying degrees of sadism. ...
Being told a friend, family member or partner is using No Contact to protect themselves from YOU is confounding. Reality is turned upside-down when the narcissist refuses your phone calls, deletes your emails, bans you from their Facebook page.
Through the grapevine, you're told the narcissist avoids office luncheons because you're there. She can't be the bridesmaid if you're the best man. He can't go to the neighborhood picnic since you volunteered to flip the burgers. Your entire social circle from Earth to Jupiter has been informed of this tragic predicament and people wonder how YOU managed to make someone's life so miserable they had to use No Contact (or take out a restraining order). ...
You have now, my friend, entered the surrealistic world of DARVO: Defend, Attack, Reverse Victim and Offender. DARVO is the terrain of the narcissistic personality which means the No Contact plan has switched from self-protection to the intention to harm."
Being told a friend, family member or partner is using No Contact to protect themselves from YOU is confounding. Reality is turned upside-down when the narcissist refuses your phone calls, deletes your emails, bans you from their Facebook page.
Through the grapevine, you're told the narcissist avoids office luncheons because you're there. She can't be the bridesmaid if you're the best man. He can't go to the neighborhood picnic since you volunteered to flip the burgers. Your entire social circle from Earth to Jupiter has been informed of this tragic predicament and people wonder how YOU managed to make someone's life so miserable they had to use No Contact (or take out a restraining order). ...
You have now, my friend, entered the surrealistic world of DARVO: Defend, Attack, Reverse Victim and Offender. DARVO is the terrain of the narcissistic personality which means the No Contact plan has switched from self-protection to the intention to harm."
After many months apart, she got back in contact with me. She seemed a lot better. We had some absolutely lovely conversations for a few months. There was no abuse at all. She seemed to have empathy for me again.
I then mentioned in passing that I had been struggling with the trauma of what had occurred when she was drinking. She immediately launched into an attack on me. I then started getting the silent treatment again.
A few weeks ago, a relative of my ex-wife contacted me and told me that my ex has stopped drinking some time ago (presumably by using medication) and is now herself again. But she seemed to not be in a recovery program - there seemed to be no honest inventory of behavior, no apology, and no making amends. I wasn't sure if she was in early recovery or just not working the steps.
Curious as to if she was doing better (and in hindsight, foolishly) I reached out to my ex, with a heartfelt email.
In reply to my email, I have received a very upsetting email reply which just tears into me. It is grossly judgemental and completely lacking any compassion for what she put me through.
I could not have sent a more compassionate message.
In return I am being abused. Her email is a gross lecture ripping into me.
It criticizes me and my decisions over and over again ... this from a woman whose decisions were to continue drinking despite multiple visits to hospital, multiple serious injuries as a result of her drinking, and at one point being less than 24 hours from death in hospital.
Her email is like a case study in denial, in which an alcoholic pretends that their drinking was never any kind of problem whatsoever, and in which the blame for the problems that occurred as a direct result of her drinking is projected onto the sober spouse.
In the email it is as if she is placing herself above me, as if she has been vaulted into a position of superiority from which she has some kind of right to look down on me and cast her toxic judgement on me.
As detailed in the article ... https://www.discoveryplace.info/dry-...drunk-recovery ...
"The dry drunk may display superiority
Superiority or grandiosity basically means a return to a self-centered, ‘the world revolves around’ me attitude. Chemically dependent people are self-centered in the extreme, as any therapist or psychiatrist is quick to observe.
With grandiosity, you are setting yourself up to be the center of attention; either superior to everyone around you, or by playing the victim. Either way, you’re distancing yourself from the people and world around you. What you’re really saying is ‘I am not like you’ with the implication that rules don’t apply in my particular case.
In 12 step programs, this is commonly known as ‘terminal uniqueness,’ or the belief that I am so unique, no one could possibly understand or relate to me. Self-pity or superiority characterizes this mentality." ...
The dry drunk may display negative Judgment
This may be one of those most destructive mental aspects of addiction. According to the big book of Alcoholics Anonymous, this unfortunate addiction characteristic is like a man who looks at a beautiful forest and points out the only dead tree. Alcoholics and addicts tend to exhibit particularly negative perspectives about themselves, others and the world about them.
When we, as alcoholics and addicts, judge a person as being ‘better than or less than,’ we are creating a situation where we manipulate our internal condition in much the same way a drink or drug functions. On the other hand, if we judge ourselves or others as ‘falling short or less than,’ we can feel bitter and cultivate resentment.
In both cases, people with chemical dependency are at risk of separating themselves through mental isolation. By negatively contrasting ourselves or the outside world, we invite regression in recovery. This is another reason why drug addiction and alcoholism are commonly referred to as mind-powered diseases."
Superiority or grandiosity basically means a return to a self-centered, ‘the world revolves around’ me attitude. Chemically dependent people are self-centered in the extreme, as any therapist or psychiatrist is quick to observe.
With grandiosity, you are setting yourself up to be the center of attention; either superior to everyone around you, or by playing the victim. Either way, you’re distancing yourself from the people and world around you. What you’re really saying is ‘I am not like you’ with the implication that rules don’t apply in my particular case.
In 12 step programs, this is commonly known as ‘terminal uniqueness,’ or the belief that I am so unique, no one could possibly understand or relate to me. Self-pity or superiority characterizes this mentality." ...
The dry drunk may display negative Judgment
This may be one of those most destructive mental aspects of addiction. According to the big book of Alcoholics Anonymous, this unfortunate addiction characteristic is like a man who looks at a beautiful forest and points out the only dead tree. Alcoholics and addicts tend to exhibit particularly negative perspectives about themselves, others and the world about them.
When we, as alcoholics and addicts, judge a person as being ‘better than or less than,’ we are creating a situation where we manipulate our internal condition in much the same way a drink or drug functions. On the other hand, if we judge ourselves or others as ‘falling short or less than,’ we can feel bitter and cultivate resentment.
In both cases, people with chemical dependency are at risk of separating themselves through mental isolation. By negatively contrasting ourselves or the outside world, we invite regression in recovery. This is another reason why drug addiction and alcoholism are commonly referred to as mind-powered diseases."
I have realised today that it is time for me to stop hoping and to stop holding out olive branches. Any time I try to hold out an olive branch, it results in me being attacked and blamed again, which retraumatizes me and I end up with my PTSD symptoms getting worse again.
Today for the first time ever, I feel like I am absolutely done with it all. I've had enough of the abuse. I've had enough of hoping for change. I've had enough of being crushed over and over again. I've had enough of the genuine love I feel for her being used against me as a weapon to hurt me. This has gone on long enough. For her to still treat me in this way after I have been loyally hoping for change for so long, and years of doing everything I could to support her, is completely unacceptable.
At this point, I can't hope for change anymore. It hurts too much to see this complete lack of empathy and extreme judgment of me from a woman who was once my soulmate.
I feel like if at this point she still doesn't get it, and still doesn't have the self awareness to have any kind of compassion or empathy for the severe damage she did to me and my mental health, then she is never going to.
I'm sick of making excuses to myself for her behavior. This latest email from her is just more abuse of me. And I am sick of that abuse of me making me ill.
Whether the years of alcohol abuse have destroyed her empathy, or if it is a behavioural part of alcoholism, matters little at this point - the reality is that she is no longer the same person she once was. She is not the person I fell in love with. She is someone else now.
And the icing on the cake of her email is that she pours crap all over me at great length, a complete character assassination, a tirade of toxic abuse with no compassion whatsoever for me, then she ends the email by demanding that I not contact her ... thereby allowing her to be the aggressor and abuse me yet again, and then when she is finished abusing me again, to prevent me replying in any way she retreats back into the fake victim role again and demands no contact. I feel absolutely disgusted by it.
It is like someone smashing me in the face with a baseball bat repeatedly then with me in pain from that attack, the attacker immediately jumping behind a big "no contact" sign, immediately flipping back into the lie of pretending that I am an abuser and demanding no contact to "protect" themselves.
Reach Out and Touch Faith
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: On a Sailboat
Posts: 3,871
I'm so sorry to read you are going through all of this. The more my ex drank the more narcissistic traits started to show through. Then I remember learning in a Master's Degree counseling class that inside the the DSM-V (diagnostic criteria for mental health disorders) the professional can't diagnose personality disorders if someone is drinking or using. This is because drinking brings out the symptoms of personality disorders. I know my ex started to show narcissistic symptoms when his drinking increased. This helped me to recognize its not a personality disorder which he has no control over, but it's from drinking which he has 100% of the control. As for us family members, it's one other reason to maintain a safe emotional distance as best we can to protect ourselves.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Midwest
Posts: 11,481
tthg--it is, indeed, time for you to heal. Your ex has shown you again and again who she is, and it's time to believe her. You may feel she was your "soulmate" at one time, but clearly that time is past. Things end. Things change. I have a terribly hard time accepting endings too, but there is no good that comes of denying the reality in front of me.
You've posted links for several articles which are informative and useful. However, none of that changes anything. All the intellectual understanding in the world will not let you, me or anyone else who loves an A avoid the pain. We just need to feel it and move thru it to the other side.
There has been no miracle. Waiting for one will only waste your life, the one and only life you have.
You've posted links for several articles which are informative and useful. However, none of that changes anything. All the intellectual understanding in the world will not let you, me or anyone else who loves an A avoid the pain. We just need to feel it and move thru it to the other side.
There has been no miracle. Waiting for one will only waste your life, the one and only life you have.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: USA
Posts: 202
Hi shockozulu,
Thanks for your reply.
That thing about it being caused by the drinking is spot on.
What I am finding shattering is that when she was drinking, I always assumed that when she stopped the alcohol, the narcissistic tendencies would subside. That gave me hope that when she stopped drinking, her true self would return.
When she first got sober, that was what happened.
Then she relapsed.
Now she has stopped drinking after that relapse, the narcissistic behaviour is as bad as it was when she was drinking. It is almost as if her email to me has reminded me of how bad her emotional abuse of me was at it's worst in the midst of her drinking.
Yes that's exactly what I feel like I need to do. If she wants "no contact", she can have it - I need to protect myself from her abuse.
Originally Posted by shockozulu 
This is because drinking brings out the symptoms of personality disorders. I know my ex started to show narcissistic symptoms when his drinking increased. This helped me to recognize its not a personality disorder which he has no control over, but it's from drinking which he has 100% of the control.
That thing about it being caused by the drinking is spot on.
What I am finding shattering is that when she was drinking, I always assumed that when she stopped the alcohol, the narcissistic tendencies would subside. That gave me hope that when she stopped drinking, her true self would return.
When she first got sober, that was what happened.
Then she relapsed.
Now she has stopped drinking after that relapse, the narcissistic behaviour is as bad as it was when she was drinking. It is almost as if her email to me has reminded me of how bad her emotional abuse of me was at it's worst in the midst of her drinking.
As for us family members, it's one other reason to maintain a safe emotional distance as best we can to protect ourselves.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: USA
Posts: 202
Originally Posted by honeypig
tthg--it is, indeed, time for you to heal. Your ex has shown you again and again who she is, and it's time to believe her. You may feel she was your "soulmate" at one time, but clearly that time is past. Things end. Things change. I have a terribly hard time accepting endings too, but there is no good that comes of denying the reality in front of me.
You've posted links for several articles which are informative and useful. However, none of that changes anything. All the intellectual understanding in the world will not let you, me or anyone else who loves an A avoid the pain. We just need to feel it and move thru it to the other side.
There has been no miracle. Waiting for one will only waste your life, the one and only life you have.
You've posted links for several articles which are informative and useful. However, none of that changes anything. All the intellectual understanding in the world will not let you, me or anyone else who loves an A avoid the pain. We just need to feel it and move thru it to the other side.
There has been no miracle. Waiting for one will only waste your life, the one and only life you have.
Thanks so much for your reply.
Yes it is like this email from her to me has finally broken my hope for change.
This quote from Don't Let an Alcoholic Destroy Your Life ? Paul Crouse seems relevant ...
--------
"If you want to destroy your own life with booze and drugs, go right ahead. That is your life and your business. But alcoholics rarely live in isolation. Addicts usually bring down others with them. It is your responsibility not to let them damage your life and your family."
--------
More than anything else, the email she has sent me has shocked me in the way it reveals how little progress she has made over the last few years. It contains exactly the same kind of BS she used to say to me when she was drinking years ago.
I often read posts by others on the forum in which I am amazed by the progress their spouses are making compared to my ex.
I guess I am just realizing now the futility of me hoping for change.
I read some stuff on Rational Recovery last night and this sentence really hit home for me ...
"In AVRT-based recovery, however, enablers and codependents are considered suckers, falling for the most transparent excuse for self-intoxication"
I feel like a sucker right now.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 430
Hi TimetoHeal,
Yes, it's time to heal. You wrote this:
I have realised today that it is time for me to stop hoping and to stop holding out olive branches. Any time I try to hold out an olive branch, it results in me being attacked and blamed again, which retraumatizes me and I end up with my PTSD symptoms getting worse again.
You're right. You need to take care of yourself. It sounds like she's using you as a convenient target for the rage she feels inside.
Can you let her go--just really and truly let her go? I'm sure there is so much more for you in life than you will ever find continuing to be connected to her.
My STBXAH lashed out at me last night when I asked him to do the breathalyzer, because he had our kids and I was concerned that he'd been drinking. I was stunned at his accusations that I was a narcissist, inconsiderate, unappreciative, etc. until I remembered: that's just what he does. Everyone else (and especially me) is the bad guy.
Yes, it's time to heal. You wrote this:
I have realised today that it is time for me to stop hoping and to stop holding out olive branches. Any time I try to hold out an olive branch, it results in me being attacked and blamed again, which retraumatizes me and I end up with my PTSD symptoms getting worse again.
You're right. You need to take care of yourself. It sounds like she's using you as a convenient target for the rage she feels inside.
Can you let her go--just really and truly let her go? I'm sure there is so much more for you in life than you will ever find continuing to be connected to her.
My STBXAH lashed out at me last night when I asked him to do the breathalyzer, because he had our kids and I was concerned that he'd been drinking. I was stunned at his accusations that I was a narcissist, inconsiderate, unappreciative, etc. until I remembered: that's just what he does. Everyone else (and especially me) is the bad guy.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: USA
Posts: 202
Hi sauerkraut,
Thanks for your reply.
Yes that's exactly how it feels. If you saw my email to her that she replied to with the abuse, you would see how kind and compassionate my email was - it was extremely carefully worded so it could not be misconstrued.
I'm genuinely shocked at the venom of her reply.
As hard as that will be, I have realised today that is exactly what I am going to have to do.
I have stuck by her for years and years in the hope that she would improve, and for her to still be abusing me like this after all this time, and after she has finally stopped drinking, and in response to what was a heartfelt and kind email from me, I have reached the "enough !" point.
Unfortunately there are children involved in this situation in our extended family who love her and miss her a lot, and who have been hurt by her decisions and her emotional abandonment.
I have done everything I can to shield those kids from her behaviour, hoping for her to get her well again so that she could resume a healthy relationship with those kids who love her. But I can see now that is not going to happen. My job now is to keep her away from those kids so that her behavior cannot do any further damage to them.
Narcissists are well know for projecting their own behavior onto others, accusing people close to them of acting in a narcissistic way.
There are elements of that in my ex's email too.
There is nothing quite like being lectured by an alcoholic for your decisions when their decisions are what has created absolute chaos !
Thanks for your reply.
Originally Posted by sauerkraut
Hi TimetoHeal,
Yes, it's time to heal. You wrote this:
I have realised today that it is time for me to stop hoping and to stop holding out olive branches. Any time I try to hold out an olive branch, it results in me being attacked and blamed again, which retraumatizes me and I end up with my PTSD symptoms getting worse again.
You're right. You need to take care of yourself. It sounds like she's using you as a convenient target for the rage she feels inside.
Yes, it's time to heal. You wrote this:
I have realised today that it is time for me to stop hoping and to stop holding out olive branches. Any time I try to hold out an olive branch, it results in me being attacked and blamed again, which retraumatizes me and I end up with my PTSD symptoms getting worse again.
You're right. You need to take care of yourself. It sounds like she's using you as a convenient target for the rage she feels inside.
I'm genuinely shocked at the venom of her reply.
Can you let her go--just really and truly let her go? I'm sure there is so much more for you in life than you will ever find continuing to be connected to her.
I have stuck by her for years and years in the hope that she would improve, and for her to still be abusing me like this after all this time, and after she has finally stopped drinking, and in response to what was a heartfelt and kind email from me, I have reached the "enough !" point.
Unfortunately there are children involved in this situation in our extended family who love her and miss her a lot, and who have been hurt by her decisions and her emotional abandonment.
I have done everything I can to shield those kids from her behaviour, hoping for her to get her well again so that she could resume a healthy relationship with those kids who love her. But I can see now that is not going to happen. My job now is to keep her away from those kids so that her behavior cannot do any further damage to them.
My STBXAH lashed out at me last night when I asked him to do the breathalyzer, because he had our kids and I was concerned that he'd been drinking. I was stunned at his accusations that I was a narcissist, inconsiderate, unappreciative, etc. until I remembered: that's just what he does. Everyone else (and especially me) is the bad guy.
There are elements of that in my ex's email too.
There is nothing quite like being lectured by an alcoholic for your decisions when their decisions are what has created absolute chaos !
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: USA
Posts: 202
Originally Posted by honeypig
You've posted links for several articles which are informative and useful. However, none of that changes anything. All the intellectual understanding in the world will not let you, me or anyone else who loves an A avoid the pain. We just need to feel it and move thru it to the other side.
I now understand the mechanism of it as best I can, but at the end of the day, I have realised that the answer is that in some cases, alcoholism can be like a psychosis. It doesn't matter how much you learn about psychosis - you still cannot reason with psychosis.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Midwest
Posts: 11,481
It doesn't matter how much you learn about psychosis - you still cannot reason with psychosis.
This is a quote from a wise member here at SR: "It is never about them. It is about why we are with them." And that struck me as so much truth...
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
She still can't face herself, which means she can't deal with anything that reminds her of what she did to you.
It really doesn't matter, under the circumstances, which one of you "initiates" no contact--it will benefit you.
And I'd recommend that you take her at her word--if you don't, you may find yourself on the receiving end of a protective order, whether that's "fair" or not. Time to let go.
It really doesn't matter, under the circumstances, which one of you "initiates" no contact--it will benefit you.
And I'd recommend that you take her at her word--if you don't, you may find yourself on the receiving end of a protective order, whether that's "fair" or not. Time to let go.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: USA
Posts: 202
Originally Posted by LexieCat
She still can't face herself, which means she can't deal with anything that reminds her of what she did to you.
As I wrote above ...
--------
"After many months apart, she got back in contact with me. She seemed a lot better. We had some absolutely lovely conversations for a few months. There was no abuse at all. She seemed to have empathy for me again.
I then mentioned in passing that I had been struggling with the trauma of what had occurred when she was drinking. She immediately launched into an attack on me. I then started getting the silent treatment again."
--------
It was as if me daring to mention damage caused to me by her drinking triggered an attack by her on me.
It really says a lot for the 12 steps in how effective they are at getting drinkers to see things from the perspective of those who their drinking has hurt. The contrast between my ex (who is clearly not working the steps) and someone who is working the steps, is staggering.
At the end of the day, her situation is a sad outcome. I gave her everything she could possibly need to get well again ... endless emotional support, complete commitment to see it through, I even organised one on one treatment for her with one of the top alcohol experts in the country - she ended up simply arguing with that expert, refusing to talk to them about alcohol.
All she had to do was accept the help that was being offered to her.
I read through the Rational Recovery zero tolerance ultimatum last night, which reads ...
----------------
"Here are the words for your zero-tolerance ultimatum:
Convene the Family Council before he has had his first drink of the day. Begin, without anger or spite,
“I/we have decided that I/we will no longer accept your addiction because it is too painful, ugly, and depressing. We love the memory of the better person you once were, but we do not love the stinky, dangerous animal you’ve become. Now you must choose between your addiction and this family. You can’t have it both ways any longer.
You must answer this question, so listen carefully: What is your plan for the future use of alcohol and other drugs? Are you going to use again in this lifetime, or are you not?
You don’t have to answer me immediately, but I must have an answer by ____. (Say when, but keep it within 24 hours maximum, preferably 2 - 4 hours later).
We hope you’ll choose to stay in the family, but please believe me, your next drink/fix will be your way of leaving this family.
If you continue your self-intoxication, wherever you are, you will be free to follow your your addiction wherever it takes you, but you will no longer be welcome here or in our hearts.”"
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At this point, I am wishing I said that to her years ago before her drinking progressed to where it did.
Sober since 10th April 2012
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 6,047
tthg, from your posts it's always seemed like she has more going on than just alcoholism, and sometimes the most disturbed people are the ones who won't get help. Her resentment about you 'forcing' her into rehab could be because it brought her too close to really looking at herself.
Every time she comes close to seeing herself, she reacts violently against it. Now she has gone no contact, forget justifying yourself, or trying to explain or understand.
You're going to go through the pain of losing a relationship, but it's pain that will lead you to a happier life. There's no going back now. Look after yourself, get as much support as you can and move on.
Every time she comes close to seeing herself, she reacts violently against it. Now she has gone no contact, forget justifying yourself, or trying to explain or understand.
You're going to go through the pain of losing a relationship, but it's pain that will lead you to a happier life. There's no going back now. Look after yourself, get as much support as you can and move on.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,103
I think we reach a point where researching and studying them and their behaviors lead us no where in solving THEIR issues but keeps us busy so we don't really have to look at our own.
Why did we keep going back?
Why couldn't we just end the relationship for good.
Why did we feel it was so important for them to get better so that WE could be happy.
Why when they showed us who they are, did we not believe them.
What made us think that by removing the alcohol they would become the fictional characters we knew they had the potential to become.
Why when someone is abusing us, no real remorse, would be go back for more.
These and many more questions are what we need to be studying and researching.
I am sorry you were hurt over and over again. I hope moving forward you can finally go no contact and work on you.
Why did we keep going back?
Why couldn't we just end the relationship for good.
Why did we feel it was so important for them to get better so that WE could be happy.
Why when they showed us who they are, did we not believe them.
What made us think that by removing the alcohol they would become the fictional characters we knew they had the potential to become.
Why when someone is abusing us, no real remorse, would be go back for more.
These and many more questions are what we need to be studying and researching.
I am sorry you were hurt over and over again. I hope moving forward you can finally go no contact and work on you.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: USA
Posts: 202
Originally Posted by FeelingGreat
Every time she comes close to seeing herself, she reacts violently against it.
Originally Posted by FeelingGreat
Now she has gone no contact, forget justifying yourself, or trying to explain or understand.
You're going to go through the pain of losing a relationship, but it's pain that will lead you to a happier life. There's no going back now. Look after yourself, get as much support as you can and move on.
You're going to go through the pain of losing a relationship, but it's pain that will lead you to a happier life. There's no going back now. Look after yourself, get as much support as you can and move on.
I'm one of those people who once they commit to something, doesn't know how to quit haha. Great quality as a husband, not great for me if I am in a situation that is not helping me. My own therapist asked me a while ago "have you had enough yet ?"
Something clicked in me when I read this latest email from her. It was like because I hadn't spoken to her in a while, when she wrote me that email it had a bigger impact on me. Like I could see the complete self centeredness of her email in a way I wouldn't have previously.
Maybe it's just that by spending time on the forum, my thinking has changed enough that I now say "OK, this email is complete BS, this behavior is complete BS, I don't deserve this crap, and I'm not going to be abused like this any more".
So thank you to everyone who has given me advice in your post replies over the last few months - clearly me saying "enough !" is indicative of me being in a much better place mentally now than when I first joined the forum.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 685
Hi tthg, sorry you had to get that email, it does sound devastating. As others have said and as it seems like you know in your heart, now: this is who she is. Stop hoping, let her go, move on. Respect her "no contact" request. Contacting her is more likely to result in pain for you than anything else and as Lexie wisely said, could even result in legal repercussions.
Well, you can't go back but say it NOW, in your own heart. It doesn't really matter if she does not hear you or read you saying it. You've tried communicating similar things for a long time. What matters is what you DO.
When I reached the point of a final ultimatum to my ex-AF, many years ago, I did not tell him. We were six weeks away from getting married but I saw the signs of relapse coming. I said to myself: if he has one more drink, if he gets high one more time, we are done.
Not long after that he told me he'd "had a few beers". I broke up with him the next day. It was hard, it was a shock, but it was the best decision I ever made.
Friend, it's hard and sad to give up hope for her but ultimately it will be freeing for you.
If you continue your self-intoxication, wherever you are, you will be free to follow your your addiction wherever it takes you, but you will no longer be welcome here or in our hearts.”"
----------------
At this point, I am wishing I said that to her years ago before her drinking progressed to where it did.
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At this point, I am wishing I said that to her years ago before her drinking progressed to where it did.
When I reached the point of a final ultimatum to my ex-AF, many years ago, I did not tell him. We were six weeks away from getting married but I saw the signs of relapse coming. I said to myself: if he has one more drink, if he gets high one more time, we are done.
Not long after that he told me he'd "had a few beers". I broke up with him the next day. It was hard, it was a shock, but it was the best decision I ever made.
Friend, it's hard and sad to give up hope for her but ultimately it will be freeing for you.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 2,792
Tthg,
I can relate, I too had my awakening day, June 16, 2016. After 34 years together and 1 3/4 post divorce I went no contact, and followed through. Our family dog had to be put down and I had my daughter call him and have him take her. Almost 5 months of 0 contact, is incredible. I never felt I could fully do it, but a switch went off in my head. I feel sorry for my girls that they have to deal with his crap, but I just couldn't do it anymore. I know my mil is angry as she feels divorced couples need to stay friends, but I just mentally couldn't do it anymore.
I am proud of you that you have turned the corner. Embrace the feeling and know she is in God's hands. Hugs my friend, we will be ok!!!
I can relate, I too had my awakening day, June 16, 2016. After 34 years together and 1 3/4 post divorce I went no contact, and followed through. Our family dog had to be put down and I had my daughter call him and have him take her. Almost 5 months of 0 contact, is incredible. I never felt I could fully do it, but a switch went off in my head. I feel sorry for my girls that they have to deal with his crap, but I just couldn't do it anymore. I know my mil is angry as she feels divorced couples need to stay friends, but I just mentally couldn't do it anymore.
I am proud of you that you have turned the corner. Embrace the feeling and know she is in God's hands. Hugs my friend, we will be ok!!!
Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: northern michigan. not the U.P.
Posts: 15,281
Originally Posted by honeypig
That's exactly it, tthg. And all the time and energy that you put into studying and reading and thinking and researching about HER problem will A) do not a damn thing to change her, B) do not a damn thing to change the situation, and C) waste time and energy you could be using to heal your OWN life, which is something that IS within your power to affect..
have you had enough yet?
are you ready to be free?
yes, the email is completely false( look at where the information is coming from) and not who you are.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 196
TTHG - Every now and then someone posts something that is an "aha" moment for me. Today, it is this (I changed some of the words to show how I saw the other side of the issue):
“I/we have decided that I/we will no longer accept your addiction because it is too painful, ugly, and depressing. We love the memory of the better person you once were, but we do not love the stinky, dangerous animal you’ve become. Now you must choose between your addiction and this family. You can’t have it both ways any longer.
You must answer this question, so listen carefully: What is your plan for the future use of enabling? Are you going to enable again in this lifetime, or are you not?
Our enabling of the A in our lives is our own addiction. As others have pointed out, you've been spending a lot of time researching and reading about her addiction. What about you? Why not spend that time trying to understand you? Chances are, she won't change. You can.
Much love and strength to you.
Originally Posted by timetohealguy
“I/we have decided that I/we will no longer accept your addiction because it is too painful, ugly, and depressing. We love the memory of the better person you once were, but we do not love the stinky, dangerous animal you’ve become. Now you must choose between your addiction and this family. You can’t have it both ways any longer.
You must answer this question, so listen carefully: What is your plan for the future use of enabling? Are you going to enable again in this lifetime, or are you not?
Much love and strength to you.
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