Right or not right?
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That's it, pretty much. It is a permanent decision to never drink, an unconditional covenant, based on deeply considered personal factors. It provides a means of identification of AV too.
I wouldn't suggest downplaying it, or minimizing it by using the word 'just'. There is nothing trivial about it. That's why the word 'Big' is there. When it is made, the fear and uncertainty is set aside and incorporated into the understanding of AV. Self confidence and expectation of success is set to 100% in whatever way makes sense to you.
I don't think about mine much these days. It just sits there, quietly doing what it does.
Does this help?
I wouldn't suggest downplaying it, or minimizing it by using the word 'just'. There is nothing trivial about it. That's why the word 'Big' is there. When it is made, the fear and uncertainty is set aside and incorporated into the understanding of AV. Self confidence and expectation of success is set to 100% in whatever way makes sense to you.
I don't think about mine much these days. It just sits there, quietly doing what it does.
Does this help?
Last edited by freshstart57; 10-14-2016 at 07:29 AM. Reason: '.
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It does very much, thanks..I didn't mean it to sound trite..I know its a huge life change and shift in thinking. I was just worried I was missing something. I feel so free, just knowing, I am free haha (I didn't notice, but I do use the word "just" a lot!)
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Location: Toronto Canada
Posts: 5,148
I think this is a direct result of AVRT, Sainos. You CAN quit. You CAN make this life-changing death-defying decision. What remains is giving oneself permission, and you have done this. Well done.
RR calls this 'The Abstinence Commitment Effect', and it made me a little giddy. I didn't have to drink anymore, and I would never do it. The relief was so sweet I could taste it. What was more was that I did it. ME. I had been such a mess of a screw-up for a decade, and those days were officially and permanently over.
I would like to make the suggestion to you at this point that you give some thought that this makes you a BADASS. Through and through. Certified. Ponder this and internalize it. Look in the mirror. There is no longer the old Sainos, the drunk. Instead, there is a smiling badass there. And I bet there is a hint of a twinkle too.
Well done. Now, you can start to fill your life again with things that give you joy and happiness. Onward with your badass self now!
RR calls this 'The Abstinence Commitment Effect', and it made me a little giddy. I didn't have to drink anymore, and I would never do it. The relief was so sweet I could taste it. What was more was that I did it. ME. I had been such a mess of a screw-up for a decade, and those days were officially and permanently over.
I would like to make the suggestion to you at this point that you give some thought that this makes you a BADASS. Through and through. Certified. Ponder this and internalize it. Look in the mirror. There is no longer the old Sainos, the drunk. Instead, there is a smiling badass there. And I bet there is a hint of a twinkle too.
Well done. Now, you can start to fill your life again with things that give you joy and happiness. Onward with your badass self now!
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Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 59
Originally Posted by freshstart57 
I think this is a direct result of AVRT, Sainos. You CAN quit. You CAN make this life-changing death-defying decision. What remains is giving oneself permission, and you have done this. Well done.
RR calls this 'The Abstinence Commitment Effect', and it made me a little giddy. I didn't have to drink anymore, and I would never do it. The relief was so sweet I could taste it. What was more was that I did it. ME. I had been such a mess of a screw-up for a decade, and those days were officially and permanently over.
I would like to make the suggestion to you at this point that you give some thought that this makes you a BADASS. Through and through. Certified. Ponder this and internalize it. Look in the mirror. There is no longer the old Sainos, the drunk. Instead, there is a smiling badass there. And I bet there is a hint of a twinkle too.
Well done. Now, you can start to fill your life again with things that give you joy and happiness. Onward with your badass self now!
RR calls this 'The Abstinence Commitment Effect', and it made me a little giddy. I didn't have to drink anymore, and I would never do it. The relief was so sweet I could taste it. What was more was that I did it. ME. I had been such a mess of a screw-up for a decade, and those days were officially and permanently over.
I would like to make the suggestion to you at this point that you give some thought that this makes you a BADASS. Through and through. Certified. Ponder this and internalize it. Look in the mirror. There is no longer the old Sainos, the drunk. Instead, there is a smiling badass there. And I bet there is a hint of a twinkle too.
Well done. Now, you can start to fill your life again with things that give you joy and happiness. Onward with your badass self now!
Awesome words !
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Originally Posted by freshstart57
I think this is a direct result of AVRT, Sainos. You CAN quit. You CAN make this life-changing death-defying decision. What remains is giving oneself permission, and you have done this. Well done.
RR calls this 'The Abstinence Commitment Effect', and it made me a little giddy. I didn't have to drink anymore, and I would never do it. The relief was so sweet I could taste it. What was more was that I did it. ME. I had been such a mess of a screw-up for a decade, and those days were officially and permanently over.
I would like to make the suggestion to you at this point that you give some thought that this makes you a BADASS. Through and through. Certified. Ponder this and internalize it. Look in the mirror. There is no longer the old Sainos, the drunk. Instead, there is a smiling badass there. And I bet there is a hint of a twinkle too.
Well done. Now, you can start to fill your life again with things that give you joy and happiness. Onward with your badass self now!
RR calls this 'The Abstinence Commitment Effect', and it made me a little giddy. I didn't have to drink anymore, and I would never do it. The relief was so sweet I could taste it. What was more was that I did it. ME. I had been such a mess of a screw-up for a decade, and those days were officially and permanently over.
I would like to make the suggestion to you at this point that you give some thought that this makes you a BADASS. Through and through. Certified. Ponder this and internalize it. Look in the mirror. There is no longer the old Sainos, the drunk. Instead, there is a smiling badass there. And I bet there is a hint of a twinkle too.
Well done. Now, you can start to fill your life again with things that give you joy and happiness. Onward with your badass self now!
And I can begin to take on the mammoth task of changing the things in my life I want to instead of "fighting" my addiction!
I won't be tied to the rehab they wanted me to go to for the next 3 months, instead I can use that time to start to rebuild what has rotted while Ive been messing around drinking.
In self help groups before, people have sat around saying what they thought made them drink. I could never fathom it, as my life was going well at the time drinking became a problem. I just couldn't find a reason! Totally ignoring the fact that I drank because I got pleasure from it haha
Then because I "needed" a reason to be able to discuss with the group, I decided in retrospect, that I drank because I didn't cope very well being a single parent. Now the veil has been lifted and I have seperated myself from the av, I see I didn't cope very well after I began drinking, not before!
I AM a badass, Ive uncovered the beast, it has nowhere to hide I do have a twinkle hehe
Of course it still whispers to me "you are not cured, you wait"..but I see that for what it is now, I don't need to go running screaming to recovery services to "save me" from it, it's mine to take on alone, just me and it and I can silence it in a moment.
And now I see it for what it is, a drink monster, stuck in the now of the pleasure it gets from drink, I can seperate it too from other things going on, like my isolation and see that, that is a seperate problem to be solved. Company won't bring lasting abstinence. Silencing the beast when it stirs will. My need for company is another seperate need, which can be solved as a seperate standing.
No more sainos, the drunk...
That was a very motivational post there you did freshstart
thanks
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Originally Posted by sainos
Yes haha, I am badass enough to take on the beast, and it will be starved of drink forever!
And I can begin to take on the mammoth task of changing the things in my life I want to instead of "fighting" my addiction!
I won't be tied to the rehab they wanted me to go to for the next 3 months, instead I can use that time to start to rebuild what has rotted while Ive been messing around drinking.
In self help groups before, people have sat around saying what they thought made them drink. I could never fathom it, as my life was going well at the time drinking became a problem. I just couldn't find a reason! Totally ignoring the fact that I drank because I got pleasure from it haha
Then because I "needed" a reason to be able to discuss with the group, I decided in retrospect, that I drank because I didn't cope very well being a single parent. Now the veil has been lifted and I have seperated myself from the av, I see I didn't cope very well after I began drinking, not before!
I AM a badass, Ive uncovered the beast, it has nowhere to hide I do have a twinkle hehe
Of course it still whispers to me "you are not cured, you wait"..but I see that for what it is now, I don't need to go running screaming to recovery services to "save me" from it, it's mine to take on alone, just me and it and I can silence it in a moment.
And now I see it for what it is, a drink monster, stuck in the now of the pleasure it gets from drink, I can seperate it too from other things going on, like my isolation and see that, that is a seperate problem to be solved. Company won't bring lasting abstinence. Silencing the beast when it stirs will. My need for company is another seperate need, which can be solved as a seperate standing.
No more sainos, the drunk...
That was a very motivational post there you did freshstart
thanks
And I can begin to take on the mammoth task of changing the things in my life I want to instead of "fighting" my addiction!
I won't be tied to the rehab they wanted me to go to for the next 3 months, instead I can use that time to start to rebuild what has rotted while Ive been messing around drinking.
In self help groups before, people have sat around saying what they thought made them drink. I could never fathom it, as my life was going well at the time drinking became a problem. I just couldn't find a reason! Totally ignoring the fact that I drank because I got pleasure from it haha
Then because I "needed" a reason to be able to discuss with the group, I decided in retrospect, that I drank because I didn't cope very well being a single parent. Now the veil has been lifted and I have seperated myself from the av, I see I didn't cope very well after I began drinking, not before!
I AM a badass, Ive uncovered the beast, it has nowhere to hide I do have a twinkle hehe
Of course it still whispers to me "you are not cured, you wait"..but I see that for what it is now, I don't need to go running screaming to recovery services to "save me" from it, it's mine to take on alone, just me and it and I can silence it in a moment.
And now I see it for what it is, a drink monster, stuck in the now of the pleasure it gets from drink, I can seperate it too from other things going on, like my isolation and see that, that is a seperate problem to be solved. Company won't bring lasting abstinence. Silencing the beast when it stirs will. My need for company is another seperate need, which can be solved as a seperate standing.
No more sainos, the drunk...
That was a very motivational post there you did freshstart
thanks
freshstart is awesome
And this is an awesome post but YOU! Very very well said !
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Originally Posted by sainos
And now I see it for what it is, a drink monster, stuck in the now of the pleasure it gets from drink, I can seperate it too from other things going on, like my isolation and see that, that is a seperate problem to be solved. Company won't bring lasting abstinence. Silencing the beast when it stirs will. My need for company is another seperate need, which can be solved as a seperate standing.
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 847
Originally Posted by sainos
... it's mine to take on alone, just me and it and I can silence it in a moment...
Company won't bring lasting abstinence. Silencing the beast when it stirs will.
Company won't bring lasting abstinence. Silencing the beast when it stirs will.
Just recognize the Addictive Voice, and separate, by staying in your right mind, as in "IT, the Beast, wants to drink -- too bad for the Beast. I never drink, and since the desire to drink is not mine, but that of the Beast, I don't even want to drink."
The desire to silence the Beast is the Addictive Voice itself suggesting that the presence of the Beast is a problem. The Beast would absolutely love to be a 'problem', of course, since that might mean... you guessed it!
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Algorithm, yes, I understand, I am learning all the time.
It IS the Beasts desire to drink, I genuienly don't want to.
It hasn't had any desire to in the last week since I stopped, so I haven't had any practical practice.
The desire to silence the Beast is the Addictive Voice itself suggesting that the presence of the Beast is a problem This makes sense!
It won't matter how much fuss it kicks up, I am just an observer. Watching the sideshow it puts on ? It has nothing to do with me if it wants a fix, thats it's problem, not mine.
I see that clearly now, the difference
Thank you
It IS the Beasts desire to drink, I genuienly don't want to.
It hasn't had any desire to in the last week since I stopped, so I haven't had any practical practice.
The desire to silence the Beast is the Addictive Voice itself suggesting that the presence of the Beast is a problem This makes sense!
It won't matter how much fuss it kicks up, I am just an observer. Watching the sideshow it puts on ? It has nothing to do with me if it wants a fix, thats it's problem, not mine.
I see that clearly now, the difference
Thank you
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Originally Posted by tursiops999
Hi Sainos -- good for you! I just wanted to say I can so relate --- one of the things I faced upon getting sober was wanting to make better connections and be less isolated. "Meetings" were a tempting quick-fix for this ... and for awhile I did still go to the occasional meeting. But I've been finding it more effective to go out and make connections doing things I'm actually interested in ... my own hobbies & dreams, and looking for ways to help others, too. It takes a little time, but you can so do this!
Yes meetings were tempting, to ease the lonliness, but truth be told, I'm sick of "recovery" meetings. I'm bored with everything to do with drinking, including "recovery" I think the Beast likes them. I think it uses them to find new excuses of why "we" need to drink and were justified by drinking in the past, and it likes the idea that it will take years to sort out the whys and wherefores and even then "I" will always be labelled an addict. IT likes me thinking of myself as flawed, makes it easier for it to have control.
Joining a group that "I" am interested in, with things "I" like doing, sounds a much better idea. Healthy minded people, concentrating on something other than themselves sound more like a type of group I want to join
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Actually, thinking on, it's not a lie to say the Beast has had no desire to drink in the last week, but it is a lie to say IT has been passive.
When I told the recovery woman that I was dropping out of the rehab she was offering, IT wasn't too happy. I told her the method I was using instead, and she admitted she had never heard of it (a "recovery specialist" who only knows one method of "recovery"). She said "Do you know how insane you sound" and I think the Beast was doing cartwheels then, saying "See, you are passing up a place on a program people would kill for" IT wanted to go. Because it would engrain the idea in me that stopping drinking, forever, on my own, was impossible.
Infact, me and the Beast, fought it out on the boards of the main forum, IT on one thread me on another..I see that now haha. Those are now the old days, when I engaged in fights with IT. No more fights, I am in control of me now, and will stay there.
When I told the recovery woman that I was dropping out of the rehab she was offering, IT wasn't too happy. I told her the method I was using instead, and she admitted she had never heard of it (a "recovery specialist" who only knows one method of "recovery"). She said "Do you know how insane you sound" and I think the Beast was doing cartwheels then, saying "See, you are passing up a place on a program people would kill for" IT wanted to go. Because it would engrain the idea in me that stopping drinking, forever, on my own, was impossible.
Infact, me and the Beast, fought it out on the boards of the main forum, IT on one thread me on another..I see that now haha. Those are now the old days, when I engaged in fights with IT. No more fights, I am in control of me now, and will stay there.
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I could be wrong on the last statements, I don't know, still learning. But that doesn't matter, the sense of relief I felt when I decided not to go and just end all this drink business altogether, once and for all, now, forever was enourmous.
It brought to an end the duality in my head, about rehab, about drinking about everything to do with the whole thing
It brought to an end the duality in my head, about rehab, about drinking about everything to do with the whole thing
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Originally Posted by sainos
I could be wrong on the last statements, I don't know, still learning. But that doesn't matter, the sense of relief I felt when I decided not to go and just end all this drink business altogether, once and for all, now, forever was enourmous.
It brought to an end the duality in my head, about rehab, about drinking about everything to do with the whole thing
It brought to an end the duality in my head, about rehab, about drinking about everything to do with the whole thing
You are correct on the " last statements". It's truly sad, but understandable, why an addiction treatment "professional" would regard what you have done as "sounding insane". Coddling and integrating the Beast into perpetual and endless recovery is a parallel universe with a long history of its own creation. You are now free from it.
GT
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Originally Posted by sainos
Hi tursiop, thanks for your post.
Yes meetings were tempting, to ease the lonliness, but truth be told, I'm sick of "recovery" meetings. I'm bored with everything to do with drinking, including "recovery" I think the Beast likes them. I think it uses them to find new excuses of why "we" need to drink and were justified by drinking in the past, and it likes the idea that it will take years to sort out the whys and wherefores and even then "I" will always be labelled an addict. IT likes me thinking of myself as flawed, makes it easier for it to have control.
Joining a group that "I" am interested in, with things "I" like doing, sounds a much better idea. Healthy minded people, concentrating on something other than themselves sound more like a type of group I want to join
Yes meetings were tempting, to ease the lonliness, but truth be told, I'm sick of "recovery" meetings. I'm bored with everything to do with drinking, including "recovery" I think the Beast likes them. I think it uses them to find new excuses of why "we" need to drink and were justified by drinking in the past, and it likes the idea that it will take years to sort out the whys and wherefores and even then "I" will always be labelled an addict. IT likes me thinking of myself as flawed, makes it easier for it to have control.
Joining a group that "I" am interested in, with things "I" like doing, sounds a much better idea. Healthy minded people, concentrating on something other than themselves sound more like a type of group I want to join
But really, I drank too much because I had a good life, to in effect, add to the high of that good life. Then as alcohol related problems took hold, IT said 'you have to drink to make yourself feel better, just as you did when you drank to add to the happy times'.
I'm now immersing myself in activities that produce natural 'highs'. Pursuing old, neglected goals, gaining folks trust, walking, painting, training my dogs, caring about my surroundings, helping folks, considering joining a photography class so that I can take photos of my pride and joy animals.
Why, oh why would I want to waste my time sitting around discussing my woes; that's negative self-talk and I know where that would lead me. Me like a. I'll with a ring in my nose being dragged back to the alcohol trough by my Beast. No thank you!
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Oh, meant to type 'me like a bull with a ring in my nose'. When I was drinking,mid slowly, methodically type and spell correctly. Now, I've much lost time to regain and type fast, but corrected the above, because, otherwise, it didn't make sense! Oh, plus, I can't stop using exclamation marks because I'm a Baddass. Freshstart coined the phrase to me and being in the UK it sounded bad, so I googled it.
So yes, Badass, tough, uncompromising and intimidating - towards that silly Beast, with its wrong attachment to alcohol as a requirement for my wellbeing.
So yes, Badass, tough, uncompromising and intimidating - towards that silly Beast, with its wrong attachment to alcohol as a requirement for my wellbeing.
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Originally Posted by sainos
Algorithm, yes, I understand, I am learning all the time.
It IS the Beasts desire to drink, I genuienly don't want to.
It hasn't had any desire to in the last week since I stopped, so I haven't had any practical practice.
The desire to silence the Beast is the Addictive Voice itself suggesting that the presence of the Beast is a problem This makes sense!
It won't matter how much fuss it kicks up, I am just an observer. Watching the sideshow it puts on ? It has nothing to do with me if it wants a fix, thats it's problem, not mine.
I see that clearly now, the difference
Thank you
It IS the Beasts desire to drink, I genuienly don't want to.
It hasn't had any desire to in the last week since I stopped, so I haven't had any practical practice.
The desire to silence the Beast is the Addictive Voice itself suggesting that the presence of the Beast is a problem This makes sense!
It won't matter how much fuss it kicks up, I am just an observer. Watching the sideshow it puts on ? It has nothing to do with me if it wants a fix, thats it's problem, not mine.
I see that clearly now, the difference
Thank you
Isn't he presence of the beast indeed a problem ? Confused - if it weren't a problem we would need AVRT / rational recovery ?
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Originally Posted by Goodfellas
Isn't he presence of the beast indeed a problem ? Confused - if it weren't a problem we would need AVRT / rational recovery ?
My experience with AVRT so far tells me that the beast may be quiet for long periods of time, and it may show up again unexpectedly. It's not a problem in the sense that my sobriety doesn't depend on the beast getting quiet -- it can be quiet or noisy, and it's not a problem either way. If the beast gets noisy in the future, it doesn't matter -- I get to remain free from alcohol no matter what.
Join Date: Sep 2016
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Originally Posted by Goodfellas
Isn't he presence of the beast indeed a problem?
This was covered in the rather long AVRT discussion thread. I would encourage you once again to read through it from the beginning.
It also has to do with the definition of the Addictive Voice. Any and all self-doubt about permanent abstinence is AV, since it suggests the future use of alcohol and other drugs. Fear of the Beast or the AV would fit the bill.
AVRT is a "no fear" approach to the Beast, and the "R" in AVRT stands for recognition, not removal, not running away from, and certainly not revering, as in "I am powerless over the Beast."
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Thank you for your post, Algorithm. I currently have the biggest test of my triumph over my AV. One of my dogs has sustained serious injuries and my Beast is shouting loud and clear through my AV; that I cannot cope without drinking. IT even said that if I don't drink then my dog will die! Such madness.
l particularly appreciated the link you posted above, truly beneficial as a reminder at my fledging stage of AVRT. I'm probably five weeks or so a soberite, maybe more: but when I made my Big Plan, I decided not to count.
But I've recharged my AV Shield, since reading your link.
Edited to add that I haven't recharged an AV Shield, it doesn't exist. My decision to not drink alcohol is my own, my true self. I don't need a separate shield to protect me. There's no recharging necessary. The AV I heard after the recharging statement was enormous, IT loved the fact that I was talking about recharging, because that signified a weakness that required boosting.
This AVRT is SO POWERFUL!!! I can stop it in its sleazy tracks so easily, once I recognise IT.
l particularly appreciated the link you posted above, truly beneficial as a reminder at my fledging stage of AVRT. I'm probably five weeks or so a soberite, maybe more: but when I made my Big Plan, I decided not to count.
But I've recharged my AV Shield, since reading your link.
Edited to add that I haven't recharged an AV Shield, it doesn't exist. My decision to not drink alcohol is my own, my true self. I don't need a separate shield to protect me. There's no recharging necessary. The AV I heard after the recharging statement was enormous, IT loved the fact that I was talking about recharging, because that signified a weakness that required boosting.
This AVRT is SO POWERFUL!!! I can stop it in its sleazy tracks so easily, once I recognise IT.
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