Tired of doing all the emotional work
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Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: CA
Posts: 8
Tired of doing all the emotional work
Thank you to all who responded to my first post a few days ago. And now I have some clarity that regardless of whether or not my husband has a drinking problem, I'm getting tired of doing all the emotional work.
If I'm not clear about something, I have to ask 20 questions before I feel like I have the answer. "Obviously," and, "it's pretty simple," are very typical ways for him to start an answer to me.
Then yesterday, I had a bad afternoon at work because I made a mistake that made me feel embarrassed and a little worried about my memory. I tried to explain it to him but he kept rebuffing me with, "There's no basis in reason for you to feel that way," and, "I don't know why you feel that way."
This time, though, instead of turning myself inside out trying to explain, I said, "Because I'm allowed to have any feelings I want." I could see the double take on his face (I've never said that to him before), and then I told him that he needed to work on his empathy.
Typically, I'll be the first one to go to him after something like this and say, okay, I'm sorry if I upset you, can everything please be okay again?Because if I don't, he'll be stony silent for days.
I'm tired of it. I'm not doing his work for him anymore.
If I'm not clear about something, I have to ask 20 questions before I feel like I have the answer. "Obviously," and, "it's pretty simple," are very typical ways for him to start an answer to me.
Then yesterday, I had a bad afternoon at work because I made a mistake that made me feel embarrassed and a little worried about my memory. I tried to explain it to him but he kept rebuffing me with, "There's no basis in reason for you to feel that way," and, "I don't know why you feel that way."
This time, though, instead of turning myself inside out trying to explain, I said, "Because I'm allowed to have any feelings I want." I could see the double take on his face (I've never said that to him before), and then I told him that he needed to work on his empathy.
Typically, I'll be the first one to go to him after something like this and say, okay, I'm sorry if I upset you, can everything please be okay again?Because if I don't, he'll be stony silent for days.
I'm tired of it. I'm not doing his work for him anymore.
Community Greeter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
speakingup......aside from all the other issues that you may legitimately have in your situation....
There is one basic fact about MOST males....
Men like to go straight for the bottom l ine "solution" for any problem. Our cultural raising of them certainly promotes this....
Women, typically, will want to express themselves...particularily their feelings and emotions surrounding a "problem". We can be very wordy about it...lol....
I have found that, sometimes, we have to teach our men that we don't want a solution on a silver platter....we just want them to sit and LISTEN to us...(and pretend to halfway care!).
This is described in a book by John Gray, that was very popular a few years back...Men Are From Mars/Women are from Venus.....It is a fun read with some simple basic truths....
Personally, I know what you are talking about...and it drives me Krazy in an intimate or personal relationship....
Fortunately, my husband (in the marriage that worked...lol)....was able to learn this very well...after I "taught" him....
LOl...I used to say.."don't give me a solution--give me a hug"....
There is one basic fact about MOST males....
Men like to go straight for the bottom l ine "solution" for any problem. Our cultural raising of them certainly promotes this....
Women, typically, will want to express themselves...particularily their feelings and emotions surrounding a "problem". We can be very wordy about it...lol....
I have found that, sometimes, we have to teach our men that we don't want a solution on a silver platter....we just want them to sit and LISTEN to us...(and pretend to halfway care!).
This is described in a book by John Gray, that was very popular a few years back...Men Are From Mars/Women are from Venus.....It is a fun read with some simple basic truths....
Personally, I know what you are talking about...and it drives me Krazy in an intimate or personal relationship....
Fortunately, my husband (in the marriage that worked...lol)....was able to learn this very well...after I "taught" him....
LOl...I used to say.."don't give me a solution--give me a hug"....
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Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: CA
Posts: 8
Thank you, dandylion, yes, everything you said is true, and he and I both know it, have had many conversations about it.
I'm a little more concerned that even in non-emotional situations, if I'm not clear about something, I have to ask several questions and usually, his attitude is, "duh." Not that he says, "duh," just that, as I said, his responses usually start with, "it's pretty simple," "obviously," etc.
Well, it's not always obvious or simple to me, or I wouldn't ask. And he also ascribes motives to others before he's even gotten much information about the situation. I could sit here and tell stories all day; I won't, but suffice it to say that he thinks he automatically knows all about people and their inner workings. He'll tell you that. If you question him about it, he'll get perturbed and want to argue. He knows why people do what they do, period.
I'm just tired, you guys. I don't know...I've had multiple relationships, so the problem is probably with me. "Wherever you go, there you are," right?
I'm a little more concerned that even in non-emotional situations, if I'm not clear about something, I have to ask several questions and usually, his attitude is, "duh." Not that he says, "duh," just that, as I said, his responses usually start with, "it's pretty simple," "obviously," etc.
Well, it's not always obvious or simple to me, or I wouldn't ask. And he also ascribes motives to others before he's even gotten much information about the situation. I could sit here and tell stories all day; I won't, but suffice it to say that he thinks he automatically knows all about people and their inner workings. He'll tell you that. If you question him about it, he'll get perturbed and want to argue. He knows why people do what they do, period.
I'm just tired, you guys. I don't know...I've had multiple relationships, so the problem is probably with me. "Wherever you go, there you are," right?
Community Greeter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
speakingup.....I hear what you are saying.....
It sounds like the marriage is not meeting your legitimate needs for emotional intimacy...
Isn't that one of the major reasons for marriage in our western cultures....?
It sounds like the marriage is not meeting your legitimate needs for emotional intimacy...
Isn't that one of the major reasons for marriage in our western cultures....?
Member
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 121
Hey Speaking,
I totally agree with dandylion.
I hope the guys on here don't take offense to this but in the romantic relationships I've experienced in my life time, men usually jump to give you the fastest solution, rather than understanding you are venting and seeking a little emotional support.
With my exbf I was with for 7 years sometimes it turned into an argument, because he just kept repeating this obvious solution and for me. It made me feel like my feelings didn't matter. It would usually make me feel stupid when I'd get to this point with him.
With my fiance we will say to eachother, "I'm just upset and ranting, I know the solution," or something like that. It took a while for him to get the concept but he definitely gets it. I'm not looking for the solution, I'm looking to unload the weight of my emotions right now.
I used to think the whole "men are from mars, women are from venus" was silly, but in all of my adult relationships these issues commonly arise, and taking the approach of being straight forward about what I want from them has been rewarding.
I find that sometimes when my fiance rants about work I look to give him the quick fix sometimes too, because I've gotten used to certain behaviours and forget that he needs to unload and just have my ears and support.
If being honest and straight forward about what you are looking for from him doesn't work, then you may just have to realize that he can't meet your emotional needs.
I totally agree with dandylion.
I hope the guys on here don't take offense to this but in the romantic relationships I've experienced in my life time, men usually jump to give you the fastest solution, rather than understanding you are venting and seeking a little emotional support.
With my exbf I was with for 7 years sometimes it turned into an argument, because he just kept repeating this obvious solution and for me. It made me feel like my feelings didn't matter. It would usually make me feel stupid when I'd get to this point with him.
With my fiance we will say to eachother, "I'm just upset and ranting, I know the solution," or something like that. It took a while for him to get the concept but he definitely gets it. I'm not looking for the solution, I'm looking to unload the weight of my emotions right now.
I used to think the whole "men are from mars, women are from venus" was silly, but in all of my adult relationships these issues commonly arise, and taking the approach of being straight forward about what I want from them has been rewarding.
I find that sometimes when my fiance rants about work I look to give him the quick fix sometimes too, because I've gotten used to certain behaviours and forget that he needs to unload and just have my ears and support.
If being honest and straight forward about what you are looking for from him doesn't work, then you may just have to realize that he can't meet your emotional needs.
Guest
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Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: CA
Posts: 8
True, Dandylion, it is supposed to be the reason for marriage.
I've been thinking, though, maybe this is as good as it's going to get. You can't get blood from a stone. Maybe I should be cultivating more friendships with other women. I'm pretty busy at my job, frankly, and H and I spend a good deal of our free time together. Maybe it's too much time.
I think I could adjust my expectations. Realistically, at 54, is he likely to change much? I could drag him to marriage counseling, I suppose.
He's voiced his opinions to me many times about mental health professionals ("quacks," he calls them), so that doesn't seem like a viable option.
On the other hand, I have a wonderful counselor, and maybe it's time to book an appointment with her. She was fabulous in helping me deal with my addict sister, who was threatening to kick me out of her life...I was an emotional wreck, lost a few days of work, was in a very bad place, and she helped me see the insanity of expecting an active addict to behave rationally.
I've been thinking, though, maybe this is as good as it's going to get. You can't get blood from a stone. Maybe I should be cultivating more friendships with other women. I'm pretty busy at my job, frankly, and H and I spend a good deal of our free time together. Maybe it's too much time.
I think I could adjust my expectations. Realistically, at 54, is he likely to change much? I could drag him to marriage counseling, I suppose.
He's voiced his opinions to me many times about mental health professionals ("quacks," he calls them), so that doesn't seem like a viable option.
On the other hand, I have a wonderful counselor, and maybe it's time to book an appointment with her. She was fabulous in helping me deal with my addict sister, who was threatening to kick me out of her life...I was an emotional wreck, lost a few days of work, was in a very bad place, and she helped me see the insanity of expecting an active addict to behave rationally.
Community Greeter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
speakingup.....LOL...I wll share one experience of mine, concerning the purpose of marriage...
I missed a question on an exam for a Marriage and Family course...
The question was...What is the primary reason for legal marriage?
I wrongly wrote...for procreation...
Well, I got very slammed by the professor!!
He admonished me--that, though there are other functions in legal marriage...the primary reason is for the transfer of property.......
Oh, well.........
I missed a question on an exam for a Marriage and Family course...
The question was...What is the primary reason for legal marriage?
I wrongly wrote...for procreation...
Well, I got very slammed by the professor!!
He admonished me--that, though there are other functions in legal marriage...the primary reason is for the transfer of property.......
Oh, well.........
Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,699
Ugg - your post kind of makes me cringe because I've been so guilty of doing what your husband does. And based on what Dandy said, I may just be a dude in a woman's body...my friends tell me I am going to be an awesome husband to some lucky guy one day...
Anywho
I think I'm better now...better about "letting" people feel what they are entitled to feel, about listening, about not thinking I know it all with regards to others and I think I have an ounce of empathy now....so it CAN change. As far as him changing in his 50's...it's possible (like anything.) BUT It was really, REALLY hard for me to even see that I had those issues. Like it took ME hitting rock bottom after a hundred 'not right' relationships and finally living with an alcoholic for 5 years for me to get miserable enough to turn around and take a look at myself for a change. If any of those exes had tried to tell me the core of my issues, I would not have listened. I never understood when they told me they were tired of 'losing' arguments with me, or that I was impossible to talk to, or that I was controlling or that I didn't understand where they were coming from.
So, it can happen - he can change, but no matter what happens, you said this:
And I emphatically shout a YES to your maybes here.
It may be as good as it gets with him, and if you cultivate outside friendships, get back to counseling for yourself, read about codependency, then you will be more than equipped to make the hard decision to leave if you need to, OR, stay and live your amazing life with him no matter how he is behaving.
Some things that stopped my crazy in it's tracks from time to time were people laying boundaries with me. I could get pretty umm...pushy when what others should be doing seemed obvious to me (wow that sounds crazy to say) but that's how I felt:
When people said NO and when I pressed, they said "because I don't want to." I just couldn't argue with that.
When people didn't want to talk to me about things anymore. And then they really stopped - I can't argue by myself, or give advice to someone not telling me about their day. They started going to people capable of listening.
When people confronted me about my manipulative motives. I have said "obviously" or "it's pretty simple"more times than I care to admit, and one ex asked me - why do you say that? Is your intention to belittle me or make me feel like my intellect is inferior to yours?
Eek - that stopped me in my tracks because I had to evaluate if I really wanted to make someone I loved feel badly.
If you keep changing your part in the dynamic (like saying 'because I am allowed to feel this way" - high five to you there!) the dynamic will HAVE to change. Whether it changed for the better or worse, (you only have control over half that) it WILL change.
Best to you.
Anywho
I think I'm better now...better about "letting" people feel what they are entitled to feel, about listening, about not thinking I know it all with regards to others and I think I have an ounce of empathy now....so it CAN change. As far as him changing in his 50's...it's possible (like anything.) BUT It was really, REALLY hard for me to even see that I had those issues. Like it took ME hitting rock bottom after a hundred 'not right' relationships and finally living with an alcoholic for 5 years for me to get miserable enough to turn around and take a look at myself for a change. If any of those exes had tried to tell me the core of my issues, I would not have listened. I never understood when they told me they were tired of 'losing' arguments with me, or that I was impossible to talk to, or that I was controlling or that I didn't understand where they were coming from.
So, it can happen - he can change, but no matter what happens, you said this:
I've been thinking, though, maybe this is as good as it's going to get. You can't get blood from a stone. Maybe I should be cultivating more friendships with other women. I'm pretty busy at my job, frankly, and H and I spend a good deal of our free time together. Maybe it's too much time.
It may be as good as it gets with him, and if you cultivate outside friendships, get back to counseling for yourself, read about codependency, then you will be more than equipped to make the hard decision to leave if you need to, OR, stay and live your amazing life with him no matter how he is behaving.
Some things that stopped my crazy in it's tracks from time to time were people laying boundaries with me. I could get pretty umm...pushy when what others should be doing seemed obvious to me (wow that sounds crazy to say) but that's how I felt:
When people said NO and when I pressed, they said "because I don't want to." I just couldn't argue with that.
When people didn't want to talk to me about things anymore. And then they really stopped - I can't argue by myself, or give advice to someone not telling me about their day. They started going to people capable of listening.
When people confronted me about my manipulative motives. I have said "obviously" or "it's pretty simple"more times than I care to admit, and one ex asked me - why do you say that? Is your intention to belittle me or make me feel like my intellect is inferior to yours?
Eek - that stopped me in my tracks because I had to evaluate if I really wanted to make someone I loved feel badly.
If you keep changing your part in the dynamic (like saying 'because I am allowed to feel this way" - high five to you there!) the dynamic will HAVE to change. Whether it changed for the better or worse, (you only have control over half that) it WILL change.
Best to you.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Starting over all over again
Posts: 4,426
Originally Posted by speakingup53 
.... I want to follow the rules here, so can you tell me why you said to keep it G-rated? ....
If the post in question is a _not_ a big deal, and just somebody who accidentally got too close to the "edge", I just pull the one post and ask everybody to please be careful, as I have done in this thread.
Which means that since you have not received a PM from me, and none of your posts are missing, then it was not you that accidentally tripped over our "G rating" requirements.
Speaking of which, "G-rating" can be a tricky concept because Sober Recovery is world-wide. We have to watch for all kinds of stuff ( i.e.: in some countries it is considered immoral for _men_ to wear shorts ), which is one of many reasons we ask people to post links instead of pics or videos.
Mike
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A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
As firebolt pointed out, it isn't only men who sometimes have communication problems. I, for instance, have a bad habit (which I've been working on for a while, with varying degrees of success) of interrupting people because I'm sure what I have to say responds perfectly to what they were going to say. It's not intended to be rude, but that is the effect. It makes people feel disrespected.
So I think the bottom line here is that unless he's prepared to really WORK on improving his communication style, what you hear is what you get. You certainly don't have to put up with it if it bothers you enough--we all have the option of walking away from unsatisfying relationships. OTOH, maybe his other qualities make up for that, and you can get the emotional support you need from other people in your life. Your mentioning making more female friends is one good strategy.
If you value the relationship otherwise and would like to keep it, you'd do well to try not to take his communication style personally. He's probably the same way with other people.
So I think the bottom line here is that unless he's prepared to really WORK on improving his communication style, what you hear is what you get. You certainly don't have to put up with it if it bothers you enough--we all have the option of walking away from unsatisfying relationships. OTOH, maybe his other qualities make up for that, and you can get the emotional support you need from other people in your life. Your mentioning making more female friends is one good strategy.
If you value the relationship otherwise and would like to keep it, you'd do well to try not to take his communication style personally. He's probably the same way with other people.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 1,144
Speakingup53, thank you for sending the thread. I almost sent a similar thread this morning. Yesterday was a bad day including work. This week, a bad week, with no emotional support. My relationship with AH offers so little. An ear, an arm, a random act of kindness is what I would appreciate. My AH behavior, or lack of it, is where my mind goes. I then focus on the resentment. I don't concentrate on the path that brings me peace. Today was better when I noticed and stayed with those pleasant moments of today.
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Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Blue Ridge Mountains
Posts: 816
speaking,
I completely relate to the 'asking 20 questions" thing. If nothing else,
I know I'm very good at distilling a question down to the specific
thing I want to know, It helps alot. The other thing is with alanon,
a sponsor, hours and days of research about alcoholism and codependency,
I don't react, I respond. Huge difference. I don't go to the hardware
store for bread either (or something like that i've heard here
Your H sounds like he has narcissistic traits. There are many posts
on this site about dealing with them. I like this website
Top 100 Traits & Behaviors ? Out of the FOG
I am still learning and changing, not easy, but so worth it. I
don't give away my serenity, or let it be taken from me these
days, which is nothing short of a miracle imho.
Keep posting and reading, it takes time.
I completely relate to the 'asking 20 questions" thing. If nothing else,
I know I'm very good at distilling a question down to the specific
thing I want to know, It helps alot. The other thing is with alanon,
a sponsor, hours and days of research about alcoholism and codependency,
I don't react, I respond. Huge difference. I don't go to the hardware
store for bread either (or something like that i've heard here
Your H sounds like he has narcissistic traits. There are many posts
on this site about dealing with them. I like this website
Top 100 Traits & Behaviors ? Out of the FOG
I am still learning and changing, not easy, but so worth it. I
don't give away my serenity, or let it be taken from me these
days, which is nothing short of a miracle imho.
Keep posting and reading, it takes time.
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