How to know when
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Bowling Green
Posts: 80
How to know when
I've previously posted about my 37-year-old son who lives with us, pending completion of the disability application process. He suffers from alcoholism, chronic depression, anxiety, social anxiety, ADD, and some oppositional behavior. He has since he was a teen.
His AA sponsor recently fired him because he couldn't do anything more for him. "You're not ready to do the work it takes to get better." He does the minimal he has to do to stay at our house and fails to do small things that we've asked of him. He will start off ok and then let some things slide.
He's three months without a drink now. He sees a psychiatrist and a counselor although I don't think he's very serious about the counseling . He is very unhappy.
In a previous thread, one of you said "With mental illness, it's hard to tell sometimes what is caused by the illness and how much is coming from being a horse's patooty. One thing is sure, people with these disorders brains do not process reality based on logic."
So, how do you know when it's because he's being a horses ass? We are on the verge of kicking him out of our home and offering him the options of the Salvation Army or a Halfway House, but we don't want to be unfair to a mentally ill person working on getting disability. I do believe he has a skewed perspective on reality. Thanks for any insight you all can give.
His AA sponsor recently fired him because he couldn't do anything more for him. "You're not ready to do the work it takes to get better." He does the minimal he has to do to stay at our house and fails to do small things that we've asked of him. He will start off ok and then let some things slide.
He's three months without a drink now. He sees a psychiatrist and a counselor although I don't think he's very serious about the counseling . He is very unhappy.
In a previous thread, one of you said "With mental illness, it's hard to tell sometimes what is caused by the illness and how much is coming from being a horse's patooty. One thing is sure, people with these disorders brains do not process reality based on logic."
So, how do you know when it's because he's being a horses ass? We are on the verge of kicking him out of our home and offering him the options of the Salvation Army or a Halfway House, but we don't want to be unfair to a mentally ill person working on getting disability. I do believe he has a skewed perspective on reality. Thanks for any insight you all can give.
Sober since 10th April 2012
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 6,047
hi jonbald, if you think of a child, they don't have an adult's ability to process the world, but we don't let them do whatever they want to or we'd have chaos and they would become uncontrollable.
Your son is struggling with depression, alcoholism and other challenges, but he still knows exactly how much, or little he has to do to stay at your house. He has that worked out. It sounds harsh, but making his way in the world might the saving of your son. Right now he's acting in the role of a child, and he's actually an adult. He's avoiding challenges that might help him gain self-esteem and reduce his depression. Many people with mental illnesses live out in the world, and enjoy it.
He's never getting out of his comfort zone unless you make him, but I get the feeling you're not up for it right now. Is there any outside help you could get to firm your resolve? A relative or another one of your children?
Your son is struggling with depression, alcoholism and other challenges, but he still knows exactly how much, or little he has to do to stay at your house. He has that worked out. It sounds harsh, but making his way in the world might the saving of your son. Right now he's acting in the role of a child, and he's actually an adult. He's avoiding challenges that might help him gain self-esteem and reduce his depression. Many people with mental illnesses live out in the world, and enjoy it.
He's never getting out of his comfort zone unless you make him, but I get the feeling you're not up for it right now. Is there any outside help you could get to firm your resolve? A relative or another one of your children?
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
As a sort of middle ground, you could agree to keep paying for the counselor and psychiatrist as long as he keeps going, but let him navigate his other expenses, himself. I think you and his sponsor are right, that he isn't using the resources available to him. If you make him leave your home, but still provide those supports for him, you aren't leaving him high and dry, but you might be forcing him to actually USE those resources to make his life better.
Just a thought.
Just a thought.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Bowling Green
Posts: 80
Feeling Great,
Much of your perspective is on target. One other forum member suggested that we first find a psychiatrist that specializes in developmental disorders and that might help clarify the situation.
I don't really know of anyone who can help support us in kicking him out of the house, other than generalized support in Alanon, and there it's more ESH and less advice. At least that is how it is supposed to be.
We are getting closer to making this call on our own though. I've contacted a halfway house and have him on the list.
Much of your perspective is on target. One other forum member suggested that we first find a psychiatrist that specializes in developmental disorders and that might help clarify the situation.
I don't really know of anyone who can help support us in kicking him out of the house, other than generalized support in Alanon, and there it's more ESH and less advice. At least that is how it is supposed to be.
We are getting closer to making this call on our own though. I've contacted a halfway house and have him on the list.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Bowling Green
Posts: 80
Originally Posted by LexieCat 
As a sort of middle ground, you could agree to keep paying for the counselor and psychiatrist as long as he keeps going, but let him navigate his other expenses, himself. I think you and his sponsor are right, that he isn't using the resources available to him. If you make him leave your home, but still provide those supports for him, you aren't leaving him high and dry, but you might be forcing him to actually USE those resources to make his life better.
Just a thought.
Just a thought.
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
Maybe just give him that money and say that's it. If he starts making progress, and sticks with it, you could then consider helping to better his living situation. I think that would be much easier on you than handing him one more ultimatum that will be difficult to follow through on.
When I left my second husband (after he signed another lease that we couldn't afford, against my explicit instructions--I was the only one working), I left him money for one month's rent and living expenses, and told him that was it, he'd have to figure out how to support himself.
And he did.
When I left my second husband (after he signed another lease that we couldn't afford, against my explicit instructions--I was the only one working), I left him money for one month's rent and living expenses, and told him that was it, he'd have to figure out how to support himself.
And he did.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Bowling Green
Posts: 80
Originally Posted by qtpi
I don't see anything wrong with salvation army or a halfway house. he would have the option to be safe and get his life together.
Frankly, call me cynical, which I am, but he won't make it. On a 25 hour a week job he won't be able to keep up his Halfway House rent and pay his other expenses. The basic budget would be ok, but unexpected expenses will come up and he won't have the money for it.
This is part of our quandary, getting him financially independent. We are really tired of having him live at home and very tired of supporting him. I wish he was finished with his disability process, but he isn't.
Perhaps we should put him out on his own, yet maybe help in case of emergencies until his disability is done?
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
It's not your job to "get him financially independent"--that's HIS job. How will he learn if he doesn't have to figure out things on his own? Heck, I had to do that, and I suspect you did, too--when we were much younger.
Here's what I think. If you give him enough to get him started at the halfway house, and he has a budget, that's sufficient help. If "unexpected expenses" come up he will have to figure something out. Ultimately he will have to work enough hours to contribute to a savings account--that's what savings are for. If you bail him out whenever he has "unexpected expenses" he might as well still be under your roof.
Here's a thought. You could offer to match what he puts into savings. If he puts in $25 a week/month/whatever, you'll match it. That might get him into the habit of savings for those unexpected expenses. He'll get money from you only if he's putting his own in. If he chooses to blow that on buying something he doesn't need, and THEN has some "unexpected expense," too bad.
I think it will be much easier to say "no" to providing more help than it would be to stop when you've been providing it. And, as I said above, if he starts making real progress, you could help out with a deposit on an apartment or something as a one-time thing. Again, much easier than providing help or a safety net on an ongoing basis and taking it away if he's not being responsible.
Here's what I think. If you give him enough to get him started at the halfway house, and he has a budget, that's sufficient help. If "unexpected expenses" come up he will have to figure something out. Ultimately he will have to work enough hours to contribute to a savings account--that's what savings are for. If you bail him out whenever he has "unexpected expenses" he might as well still be under your roof.
Here's a thought. You could offer to match what he puts into savings. If he puts in $25 a week/month/whatever, you'll match it. That might get him into the habit of savings for those unexpected expenses. He'll get money from you only if he's putting his own in. If he chooses to blow that on buying something he doesn't need, and THEN has some "unexpected expense," too bad.
I think it will be much easier to say "no" to providing more help than it would be to stop when you've been providing it. And, as I said above, if he starts making real progress, you could help out with a deposit on an apartment or something as a one-time thing. Again, much easier than providing help or a safety net on an ongoing basis and taking it away if he's not being responsible.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Bowling Green
Posts: 80
Originally Posted by LexieCat
It's not your job to "get him financially independent"--that's HIS job. How will he learn if he doesn't have to figure out things on his own? Heck, I had to do that, and I suspect you did, too--when we were much younger.
Here's what I think. If you give him enough to get him started at the halfway house, and he has a budget, that's sufficient help. If "unexpected expenses" come up he will have to figure something out. Ultimately he will have to work enough hours to contribute to a savings account--that's what savings are for. If you bail him out whenever he has "unexpected expenses" he might as well still be under your roof.
Here's a thought. You could offer to match what he puts into savings. If he puts in $25 a week/month/whatever, you'll match it. That might get him into the habit of savings for those unexpected expenses. He'll get money from you only if he's putting his own in. If he chooses to blow that on buying something he doesn't need, and THEN has some "unexpected expense," too bad.
I think it will be much easier to say "no" to providing more help than it would be to stop when you've been providing it. And, as I said above, if he starts making real progress, you could help out with a deposit on an apartment or something as a one-time thing. Again, much easier than providing help or a safety net on an ongoing basis and taking it away if he's not being responsible.
Here's what I think. If you give him enough to get him started at the halfway house, and he has a budget, that's sufficient help. If "unexpected expenses" come up he will have to figure something out. Ultimately he will have to work enough hours to contribute to a savings account--that's what savings are for. If you bail him out whenever he has "unexpected expenses" he might as well still be under your roof.
Here's a thought. You could offer to match what he puts into savings. If he puts in $25 a week/month/whatever, you'll match it. That might get him into the habit of savings for those unexpected expenses. He'll get money from you only if he's putting his own in. If he chooses to blow that on buying something he doesn't need, and THEN has some "unexpected expense," too bad.
I think it will be much easier to say "no" to providing more help than it would be to stop when you've been providing it. And, as I said above, if he starts making real progress, you could help out with a deposit on an apartment or something as a one-time thing. Again, much easier than providing help or a safety net on an ongoing basis and taking it away if he's not being responsible.
How does he take responsibility for his own full expenses and emergencies, plus put aside savings while only being allowed 25 hours a week for disability? That amount of work nets $191.25. His halfway house will cost him $100, his car and cell are $30 a week. Probably $20 plus on gas a week. $25 a week for savings. I don't think the halfway house fee covers all meals, I'm not sure. But anyway you can see he's left with a $16.25 pad. I don't see how it can happen pre-disability. NOW, after disability comes through, add that to a 25 hour a week job, he should be able to do it. It's a whole other story then.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 2,308
Hi Jon, hugs to you dealing with this difficult situation.
You said in a previous thread he had been spending money frivolously. Do you think he's doing that because he knows he has his safety net (you and your wife)? This plan of Salvation Army would definitely help with that.....
There's no easy answers but good job on exploring alternatives.....
You said in a previous thread he had been spending money frivolously. Do you think he's doing that because he knows he has his safety net (you and your wife)? This plan of Salvation Army would definitely help with that.....
There's no easy answers but good job on exploring alternatives.....
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Bowling Green
Posts: 80
Originally Posted by kittycat3
Hi Jon, hugs to you dealing with this difficult situation.
You said in a previous thread he had been spending money frivolously. Do you think he's doing that because he knows he has his safety net (you and your wife)? This plan of Salvation Army would definitely help with that.....
There're no easy answers but good job on exploring alternatives.....
You said in a previous thread he had been spending money frivolously. Do you think he's doing that because he knows he has his safety net (you and your wife)? This plan of Salvation Army would definitely help with that.....
There're no easy answers but good job on exploring alternatives.....
Community Greeter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
jonbald....this video might be of some interest to you....(you m ight already have this info)....but, here it is...
I found it under the google....ADHD Social Security Disability Claims.....
www/youtube.com/watch?v=VKeZ1YsVY6Y
I found it under the google....ADHD Social Security Disability Claims.....
www/youtube.com/watch?v=VKeZ1YsVY6Y
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Bowling Green
Posts: 80
Originally Posted by kittycat3
Is he only working 25 hours because of his disability? (He's not able to work more than that?)
While on disability or while applying for disability you cannot make over approximately $1100 a month. If you go over, it disqualifies you. So, he could get a few more hours than 25, but can't go over a certain threshold.
His current job is giving him 12-15 hours per week at best. He was initially promised a full-time position, managing a back area of the store. They have not come through with that and have given him the run around concerning the full-time job offer. So he is looking around for something to get an additional 10 hours a week and that's tough to find. He's also looking for a different job where he can get 25 hours. He's not burning it up on the job search which bothers me, but he is doing some applications on most days.
At the point, they had offered him the 'promotion' to a full-time job he decided to take it and he told them so. Even though this would disqualify his disability if the government were to check. He wants to do it and take the challenge even though we weren't sure he was up tot he job. Since then it has been one disappointment after another as Macy's limits his hours. He gets to work on time and appears to be working hard, but who knows he could be doing something that causes them to limit his hours. Maybe he mopes around depressed or maybe they can just tell he's depressed or not all bubbly. Whatever, it's a job unloading trucks, so you wouldn't think you'd have to be an extrovert with people skills.
He could maybe work full-time now until it comes time for the disability trial, because they don't usually check until then, but it is a risk of getting caught. Besides, by the time the trial gets here, he will probably have lost this job.
Forum Leader
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 16,945
Originally Posted by jonbald
I do think our safety net has something to do with it.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 2,308
It's clear you have spent a lot of time researching this so please forgive me if this sounds harsh, I don't mean it to. But the limit on disability qualification is meant to supplement those who can't earn more because of their inability to work isn't it? So is purposefully limiting his hours to keep his income below threshold somehow "gaming" the system? Seems like there is a difference in inability to earn more, vs purposefully limiting his work hours to keep below threshold to only "maybe" get disability in a few years.
If he is unable to find more work or get more hours, then that's different. But if he can work more, he'll be busier, earn more $$, ideally find more of a sense of purpose and have less time for letting depression / addictive behaviors to take over his life....plus have more of an ability to become independent.
If he is unable to find more work or get more hours, then that's different. But if he can work more, he'll be busier, earn more $$, ideally find more of a sense of purpose and have less time for letting depression / addictive behaviors to take over his life....plus have more of an ability to become independent.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Bowling Green
Posts: 80
Originally Posted by kittycat3
It's clear you have spent a lot of time researching this so please forgive me if this sounds harsh, I don't mean it to. But the limit on disability qualification is meant to supplement those who can't earn more because of their inability to work isn't it? So is purposefully limiting his hours to keep his income below threshold somehow "gaming" the system? Seems like there is a difference in inability to earn more, vs purposefully limiting his work hours to keep below threshold to only "maybe" get disability in a few years.
If he is unable to find more work or get more hours, then that's different. But if he can work more, he'll be busier, earn more $$, ideally find more of a sense of purpose and have less time for letting depression / addictive behaviors to take over his life....plus have more of an ability to become independent.
If he is unable to find more work or get more hours, then that's different. But if he can work more, he'll be busier, earn more $$, ideally find more of a sense of purpose and have less time for letting depression / addictive behaviors to take over his life....plus have more of an ability to become independent.
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
