parenting adult alcoholic that has small children
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parenting adult alcoholic that has small children
Our son is 37 years old and has an 8 and 10 year old. He married a woman 13 years ago. Their relationship was based on drinking for "fun". When they had children she decided kids and a husband weren't exactly "fun" anymore. So, she took the money and furniture and left her dying cat and the kids 3 years ago. During the years he was trying to hold onto their marriage he got deeper and deeper into self-medicating with alcohol. We found out two and a half years ago how serious his problem was. He was always a hard worker, great Dad and super creative. But depression, anxiety and alcohol have changed everything. He has been to 2 rehabs and lost 2 jobs. We live a hour and half away from him. A year ago when he relapsed again, his Dad went to live with he and his kids for 3 and a half months. It really seemed to help. His ego, physical health and mental health all improved and we were encouraged. He got another full-time job and all looked like it was moving in the right direction.
Unfortunately, he stopped taking his meds and relapsed. We thought he got himself back on track in the spring, but the last few weeks, we are questioning many of his actions. Money is a very big problem for him. He has no will power or ability to budget so he has money to do the things he needs to be responsible for. Fortunately he still owns a home, but he has started to get sloppy again about taking care of it and himself. He has become short when I ask him questions, his answers don't add up as they should and he is starting to become elusive again. He still needs to be reminded when his bills are each due and has stopped going to his meetings very regularly like he was.
We have 2 other grown children, 4 other grandchildren and an elderly mother that needs our help. We are out of energy, money, time, patients, ideas and hope. I question now if he has ever completely stopped drinking. He seems to be on a very self-destructive path. We want to be there for the kids, and worry about his and their safety sometimes.
I turned to this site because I needed to tell someone.
Out of hope for a healthy life for our son.
Unfortunately, he stopped taking his meds and relapsed. We thought he got himself back on track in the spring, but the last few weeks, we are questioning many of his actions. Money is a very big problem for him. He has no will power or ability to budget so he has money to do the things he needs to be responsible for. Fortunately he still owns a home, but he has started to get sloppy again about taking care of it and himself. He has become short when I ask him questions, his answers don't add up as they should and he is starting to become elusive again. He still needs to be reminded when his bills are each due and has stopped going to his meetings very regularly like he was.
We have 2 other grown children, 4 other grandchildren and an elderly mother that needs our help. We are out of energy, money, time, patients, ideas and hope. I question now if he has ever completely stopped drinking. He seems to be on a very self-destructive path. We want to be there for the kids, and worry about his and their safety sometimes.
I turned to this site because I needed to tell someone.
Out of hope for a healthy life for our son.
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Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 773
Hugs to you - sounds like a tough situation all around.
Somehow, some way, those kids need to be placed in a safe environment - does not sound like he can provide it for them.
Best way to help him is to stop helping him. But kids need to be safe.
Somehow, some way, those kids need to be placed in a safe environment - does not sound like he can provide it for them.
Best way to help him is to stop helping him. But kids need to be safe.
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Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 223
You need to be more concerned about the kids-they have no choice in this and the innocence of their childhood (and safety) is being destroyed. Get them safe-and to do that you may have to walk away and turn your back on him.
I'm sorry you are dealing with this-alcoholism sucks all the way around.
I'm sorry you are dealing with this-alcoholism sucks all the way around.
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Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 193
As the parent of two small kids who are growing up with an alcoholic father who has been in and out of recovery, I agree: please shift focus to the kids.
My ex's parents knew he was an alcoholic a year before I did, and the family spent another year after that trying to protect him instead of our toddlers. It's not until they made it clear that their first obligation was to protect the children - even if that meant taking away his custody - that he actually sought treatment. Until then, he didn't have enough to "lose" so to speak.
It's been back and forth since then, but at least now he's got the accountability of needing to stay sober - and prove he's sober - to keep custody of the kids; and there is a mechanism in place (SoberLink) to ensure that happens. I was able to negotiate that with the threat of court activity but no actual legal filings because he wanted to keep his issues private.
At 8 and 10, his kids are being impacted in a very real way, and someone needs to step in and look out for them - they cannot do it for themselves. My ex's family got advice to "lovingly detach" from him and focus on what the kids needed, and that seems to be working better than trying to persuade him out of his drinking without teeth.
My ex's parents knew he was an alcoholic a year before I did, and the family spent another year after that trying to protect him instead of our toddlers. It's not until they made it clear that their first obligation was to protect the children - even if that meant taking away his custody - that he actually sought treatment. Until then, he didn't have enough to "lose" so to speak.
It's been back and forth since then, but at least now he's got the accountability of needing to stay sober - and prove he's sober - to keep custody of the kids; and there is a mechanism in place (SoberLink) to ensure that happens. I was able to negotiate that with the threat of court activity but no actual legal filings because he wanted to keep his issues private.
At 8 and 10, his kids are being impacted in a very real way, and someone needs to step in and look out for them - they cannot do it for themselves. My ex's family got advice to "lovingly detach" from him and focus on what the kids needed, and that seems to be working better than trying to persuade him out of his drinking without teeth.
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With the exception of having children with an ex, this could be my story in almost all other regards. My parents could have written a very similar perspective as you did. My heart goes out to you and your husband, who are clearly loving, committed and ... beyond worried for everyone involved (well, maybe not the ex!).
I will say a couple of things. My parents stuck it out for YEARS - my mom likes to round up to 10 though my active, terrible, damaging alcoholism was a few less, but that's really beside the point - until I finally stopped drinking 7 months and 1 day ago. I never truly quit before, so that comment of yours really hit home. Many told them to cut me loose. I am thankful that they never did, and while I cannot literally repay them nor emotionally undo the damage I did, they are truly grateful for the single fact that I am sober and working on an amazing life and program of recovery.
As far as your son, it has to be his choice to get and stay sober. You didn't cause it, you can't control it, and you can't cure it, as we say in AA.
As far as you and your husband, you have to decide what, when and how you will or will not help him.
Agree with the others' that the children should come first and certainly need as many people in their "corners" as possible for that. Again- you can only control how you choose to TRY to affect that - because they are his children.
This is a really complicated situation when an entire family unit is involved. My parents spent countless hours in AA (for my mom, who is a recovered alcoholic), coda (for them, me, our whole family), and counseling. Our family program has worked for us.
Blessings and hope to you for a successful outcome that benefits everyone.
I will say a couple of things. My parents stuck it out for YEARS - my mom likes to round up to 10 though my active, terrible, damaging alcoholism was a few less, but that's really beside the point - until I finally stopped drinking 7 months and 1 day ago. I never truly quit before, so that comment of yours really hit home. Many told them to cut me loose. I am thankful that they never did, and while I cannot literally repay them nor emotionally undo the damage I did, they are truly grateful for the single fact that I am sober and working on an amazing life and program of recovery.
As far as your son, it has to be his choice to get and stay sober. You didn't cause it, you can't control it, and you can't cure it, as we say in AA.
As far as you and your husband, you have to decide what, when and how you will or will not help him.
Agree with the others' that the children should come first and certainly need as many people in their "corners" as possible for that. Again- you can only control how you choose to TRY to affect that - because they are his children.
This is a really complicated situation when an entire family unit is involved. My parents spent countless hours in AA (for my mom, who is a recovered alcoholic), coda (for them, me, our whole family), and counseling. Our family program has worked for us.
Blessings and hope to you for a successful outcome that benefits everyone.
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Join Date: Sep 2016
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So interested in Sober Link. Sometimes I think I may be accusing him of drinking again when he's not (but all the signs tell me I'm right and that he is drinking again). I want proof that he is not drinking and don't know how to get that (not just his word, because we all know alcoholics have spent a lot of time perfecting their lies) . If he isn't drinking, than we need to address some of the issues I'm observing that are maybe indications of a different problem like depression.
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Join Date: Aug 2016
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My ex had his first experience with SoberLink as a part of a program and he volunteered to resume it when I caught him in a relapse.
A few months later; he relapsed again after explaining why he thought he no longer needed / wanted to SoberLink. I was sure at that point he had relapsed and was ready to file a court motion for monitoring - but he wanted to avoid that and agreed to set it up again and have a mediator involved as a third party who represented the kids.
It wasn't as easy as it all sounds now, but I will say that over time I got better at choosing language that was about what I needed - confidence that my children were safe - versus what he needed to do - pursue his recovery more aggressively. That gave him less to argue about.
I have weighed the option of going to court to pursue sole custody but emotionally that has been much harder than being ready to request court-ordered monitoring. That is certainly a step you might be able to consider if you can't persuade him to do it voluntarily. Although I am not sure as a non-parent you could do this as easily?
The monitoring gives me peace of mind and it's made me conscious of how much more I worried about even little signs that could mean he was drinking: the test results get emailed to me twice a day and it's done a lot to ease my concern. I suspect he will relapse again, but the test record will ensure I can take action as soon as that happens.
Have you spoken with the kids about his alcoholism at any point?
A few months later; he relapsed again after explaining why he thought he no longer needed / wanted to SoberLink. I was sure at that point he had relapsed and was ready to file a court motion for monitoring - but he wanted to avoid that and agreed to set it up again and have a mediator involved as a third party who represented the kids.
It wasn't as easy as it all sounds now, but I will say that over time I got better at choosing language that was about what I needed - confidence that my children were safe - versus what he needed to do - pursue his recovery more aggressively. That gave him less to argue about.
I have weighed the option of going to court to pursue sole custody but emotionally that has been much harder than being ready to request court-ordered monitoring. That is certainly a step you might be able to consider if you can't persuade him to do it voluntarily. Although I am not sure as a non-parent you could do this as easily?
The monitoring gives me peace of mind and it's made me conscious of how much more I worried about even little signs that could mean he was drinking: the test results get emailed to me twice a day and it's done a lot to ease my concern. I suspect he will relapse again, but the test record will ensure I can take action as soon as that happens.
Have you spoken with the kids about his alcoholism at any point?
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,103
I’m so sorry you and your family are in this complex and confusing situation. My heart goes out to the both of you.
Always trust your gut, if everything tells you he’s drinking again, then trust that feeling instead of trying to prove it wrong.
Whether it’s his drinking or depression or most likely both, the answer should always be to put his children’s best interest first. If you feel he is not capable of properly caring for them then you and your husband should work towards getting them removed from that environment. They could benefit from counseling for what they have been through in their young little lives. The innocent need to come first then the adult if and when they are ready for help.
Always trust your gut, if everything tells you he’s drinking again, then trust that feeling instead of trying to prove it wrong.
Whether it’s his drinking or depression or most likely both, the answer should always be to put his children’s best interest first. If you feel he is not capable of properly caring for them then you and your husband should work towards getting them removed from that environment. They could benefit from counseling for what they have been through in their young little lives. The innocent need to come first then the adult if and when they are ready for help.
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Join Date: Aug 2011
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Krystal.....many alcoholics do have a dual diagnosis....and, all of the conditions involved have to be taken into consideration....ADHD, anxiety disorders and depression are quite common...
I don't know if you have co nsidered asking child protective services to evauate and monitor the children's welfare. You son would never need to know who made the contact...as it could be anyone.
They are not dedicated to removing the children (unless it is necessary, of course, in extreme situations). Their first objective is to HELP.
Consider that they would have much more leverage in your son getting p roper diagnosis and ongoing effective alcoholism treatment than you would have....
They, also, have the ability to monitor the situation over time....
I am only saying this for you to have another option to consider.....
I don't know if you have co nsidered asking child protective services to evauate and monitor the children's welfare. You son would never need to know who made the contact...as it could be anyone.
They are not dedicated to removing the children (unless it is necessary, of course, in extreme situations). Their first objective is to HELP.
Consider that they would have much more leverage in your son getting p roper diagnosis and ongoing effective alcoholism treatment than you would have....
They, also, have the ability to monitor the situation over time....
I am only saying this for you to have another option to consider.....
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Join Date: Sep 2016
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CoParent TOA, Thanks for the SoberLink info. I checked into it. It sounds like a great product. It would sure get rid of a lot of the questionable times (or substantiate them).
August 252015, You sound like someone that knows a lot about our story. It is true that there are times (sometimes a lot), where I feel like we're working harder for my son's sobriety than he is. We want him to keep the house his kids have always lived in for their stability, but that comes with a price. His "good" periods seem to be very short in length and then things begin to spiral down again even though he says he's "fine".
I watch his checking account and see he is making many small purchases a week at Walgreens, Walmart and another grocery store. I have to assume he is either getting liquor there instead of convenience stores, or he is getting a small purchase and cash so it's hard to know how the money is being spent. We have asked to see his receipts, but he conveniently just can't seem to remember to do that. Today on the phone I heard some old tactics, self-pity that he has to deal with addiction and telling me I make him feel bad I guess because I am an easy target if I think I've hurt his feelings. I understand I am talking to the addiction and not the person, but it's still difficult to navigate the conversation.
We are continuing to keep his kids front and center stage as much as possible. We live too far away to have them here more than week-ends and vacations. Unfortunately their Mother has personality disorders and her place of residence is not the healthiest environment either. Today, they appear to be terrific, well-behaved, great students, but I know this entire situation from both parents will have a lifetime affect on their health, relationships and future. As a retired teacher I saw it everyday in my classrooms.
I'm currently trying to figure out how much help is too much but not enough. It's a very gray line, especially when children are involved.
August 252015, You sound like someone that knows a lot about our story. It is true that there are times (sometimes a lot), where I feel like we're working harder for my son's sobriety than he is. We want him to keep the house his kids have always lived in for their stability, but that comes with a price. His "good" periods seem to be very short in length and then things begin to spiral down again even though he says he's "fine".
I watch his checking account and see he is making many small purchases a week at Walgreens, Walmart and another grocery store. I have to assume he is either getting liquor there instead of convenience stores, or he is getting a small purchase and cash so it's hard to know how the money is being spent. We have asked to see his receipts, but he conveniently just can't seem to remember to do that. Today on the phone I heard some old tactics, self-pity that he has to deal with addiction and telling me I make him feel bad I guess because I am an easy target if I think I've hurt his feelings. I understand I am talking to the addiction and not the person, but it's still difficult to navigate the conversation.
We are continuing to keep his kids front and center stage as much as possible. We live too far away to have them here more than week-ends and vacations. Unfortunately their Mother has personality disorders and her place of residence is not the healthiest environment either. Today, they appear to be terrific, well-behaved, great students, but I know this entire situation from both parents will have a lifetime affect on their health, relationships and future. As a retired teacher I saw it everyday in my classrooms.
I'm currently trying to figure out how much help is too much but not enough. It's a very gray line, especially when children are involved.
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Join Date: Mar 2011
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My two cents is that the adult son in this equation may be the "parent" to the children, but he is not able to adequately parent those poor kids and I think that the kindest thing, although not the easiest, is for someone else to step in and take custody of the innocents in this; that being the kids.
The adult alcoholic son has choices. He can seek help. He can not drink. But it sounds like he chooses other options. The kids have no choices. They need someone to step in and fight for them. They deserve to have a childhood made up of predictability and certainty, not chaos and worry about when Dad is falling off the wagon again.
If as the parents of the addict, you want to keep helping, maybe step in and take the kids. I suspect any child service agency would remove them from the dads care given what you have shared here and that is what should happen.
Addicts seem to me to be the only group around, who while causing their own demise, seem to always have people racing around trying to fix things for them.
Time to make the kids the focus...
And I say this as someone who did NOT do that for my kids for too many years-- I made the crazed addict the priority and tried to "save" him... And my kids (8 and 11) are paying a price emotionally for that now...
Thus my pleading in this reply for the kids to come first.
The adult alcoholic son has choices. He can seek help. He can not drink. But it sounds like he chooses other options. The kids have no choices. They need someone to step in and fight for them. They deserve to have a childhood made up of predictability and certainty, not chaos and worry about when Dad is falling off the wagon again.
If as the parents of the addict, you want to keep helping, maybe step in and take the kids. I suspect any child service agency would remove them from the dads care given what you have shared here and that is what should happen.
Addicts seem to me to be the only group around, who while causing their own demise, seem to always have people racing around trying to fix things for them.
Time to make the kids the focus...
And I say this as someone who did NOT do that for my kids for too many years-- I made the crazed addict the priority and tried to "save" him... And my kids (8 and 11) are paying a price emotionally for that now...
Thus my pleading in this reply for the kids to come first.
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Join Date: Aug 2011
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wanttobehealthy......my point is that child protective services would, first, offer help to the father.....
they do not, necessarily, just scoop the children away, as the first action....though, they may arrange some temporary custody arrangement, while the situation is being stabilized. Even with temporary custody...they try to get family members, if that is p ossible.....f
The overall goal is to intervene and help to keep the family functional...if their investigations and monitoring deem that to be possible...
I think that we both agree that there does need to be more attention and investigating the total situation that the kids are in.....
The kids do come first....
CPS does have a lot of authority and leverage that might motivate the father to take sobriety more seriously......more than anyone else has...
they do not, necessarily, just scoop the children away, as the first action....though, they may arrange some temporary custody arrangement, while the situation is being stabilized. Even with temporary custody...they try to get family members, if that is p ossible.....f
The overall goal is to intervene and help to keep the family functional...if their investigations and monitoring deem that to be possible...
I think that we both agree that there does need to be more attention and investigating the total situation that the kids are in.....
The kids do come first....
CPS does have a lot of authority and leverage that might motivate the father to take sobriety more seriously......more than anyone else has...
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Join Date: Mar 2011
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I tend to be of the mentality that I wish child protective services WOULD swiftly remove kids... I know that might not be what the OP wants to hear... But I think that when a parent can not consistently care for their kids, kids can not be collatoral damage as the parent tries to get their act together...
Several rehab stints and a parent who is off and on medication and drinking and unstable seems like a terrible recipe for a news report about a tragedy involving the kids...
I just think that where kids are involved, a zero tolerance policy for an addict parent subjecting the kids to any harm, is my vote...
Again, just my two cents... I did not read the whole thread super carefully-- just the OP and then I offered my 2 cents....
Not trying to offend anyone-- and given my history of being with xAH too long and causing my kids harm bc of that, I certainly am not judging at all...
Wish I could re-do the past personally...
Several rehab stints and a parent who is off and on medication and drinking and unstable seems like a terrible recipe for a news report about a tragedy involving the kids...
I just think that where kids are involved, a zero tolerance policy for an addict parent subjecting the kids to any harm, is my vote...
Again, just my two cents... I did not read the whole thread super carefully-- just the OP and then I offered my 2 cents....
Not trying to offend anyone-- and given my history of being with xAH too long and causing my kids harm bc of that, I certainly am not judging at all...
Wish I could re-do the past personally...
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Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 193
"I watch his checking account and see he is making many small purchases a week at Walgreens, Walmart and another grocery store. I have to assume he is either getting liquor there instead of convenience stores, or he is getting a small purchase and cash so it's hard to know how the money is being spent. We have asked to see his receipts, but he conveniently just can't seem to remember to do that."
This kind of behavior gives you the ILLUSION of control but no ACTUAL control. It is only going to cause you more stress and is in no way going to give you any more control of the situation than you do right now.
Focus less on what he's doing and more on yourself, what you believe, what you can do.
You believe he has relapsed and is drinking again.
You are worried about your grandchildren, who do not have the ability to make choices in this situation and are at best being put in emotional harm's way and at worst are in an unsafe environment, period.
You are too far away to be able to protect them on an on-going basis.
You have tried, but you cannot convince your alcoholic son not to drink.
So, what - beyond trying and failing to control the alcoholic - are you going to do?
If you eliminate completely any action step that requires his agreement or participation, your various choices on how to handle this start to be rapidly eliminated. And the only choice you wind up with is whether you want to take action to protect your grandchildren or continue to take no action or action that is likely to fail in hopes of protecting your son.
I know it sounds harsh, but I will tell you that I went for two years trying to control a situation over which I really had no control. It's not until I realized I could NOT control him that I was ready to take real court action to protect my children. It took his family longer. I know we ALL wish we would have hit that point earlier.
This kind of behavior gives you the ILLUSION of control but no ACTUAL control. It is only going to cause you more stress and is in no way going to give you any more control of the situation than you do right now.
Focus less on what he's doing and more on yourself, what you believe, what you can do.
You believe he has relapsed and is drinking again.
You are worried about your grandchildren, who do not have the ability to make choices in this situation and are at best being put in emotional harm's way and at worst are in an unsafe environment, period.
You are too far away to be able to protect them on an on-going basis.
You have tried, but you cannot convince your alcoholic son not to drink.
So, what - beyond trying and failing to control the alcoholic - are you going to do?
If you eliminate completely any action step that requires his agreement or participation, your various choices on how to handle this start to be rapidly eliminated. And the only choice you wind up with is whether you want to take action to protect your grandchildren or continue to take no action or action that is likely to fail in hopes of protecting your son.
I know it sounds harsh, but I will tell you that I went for two years trying to control a situation over which I really had no control. It's not until I realized I could NOT control him that I was ready to take real court action to protect my children. It took his family longer. I know we ALL wish we would have hit that point earlier.
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