Poppet35

My oh has been working away this week which has given me space. She's asked me to look at how I have contributed to our problems and we finally got to the root cause of everything. Lack of empty - going back to when we first moved in together, the has been behind this vicious dance we've been in.
She said that she had behaved badly over the years and knew this had an impact on my behaviour towards her. It's the first time she's ever said that to me.

So this week I been thinking about how this vicious circle has happened and my contribution to it. It's been therapeutic because I can see the whole dance we've been doing. We never tackled and solved the initial empathy issue. I am not the most empathic person, I struggle to put myself in other people's shoes.

This week has been a bi rocky, I've been up and down emotionally, but I've gradually felt better, been swimming in the sea with my dog the last few days which was glorious. I still feel lost, and I'm still not sure if we're over. I've been looking at ways to mend this and believe forgiveness is the key.

Told oh I'd been doing some contemplating and she asked if I'd like to share (her communication has been ropey this week) so I asked if I could call last night to talk rather than text and she never replied. Hmmm... she tells me how much she hates texting but when I ask to call she never responds. I only asked because she's been so uncommunicative I don't feel I can just call her but maybe that was what she was waiting for me to do. All she had to say was ok or not ok.

FireSprite

Soul searching is always good exercise, Pop. But - isn't your partner still actively drinking? That certainly plays a big part in her being non-communicative & affects whether she can even truly "hear" you when/if you do speak about it.

IMO - you don't need her opinions to go through your own inventory & work on whatever flaws you find there.... that's your side of the street & yours to deal with. Don't let your growth depend on her input.

LexieCat

Agree with FireSprite. Yes, always good to look at what we've done, and forgiveness can be very healing--for YOU. It won't heal the relationship that is still being impacted, on a daily basis, by her drinking and what that does to her ability to be a real partner to you.

Forgiveness can allow you to walk away with a lighter heart, and without bitterness. As an alcoholic, she may be doing the best she is capable of. But that doesn't make her good, reliable partner for your life. Her drinking and associated behavior can wear you down just as surely whether she "means" to or not.

Bottom line: it's OK to cut yourself loose and build a good life that isn't constantly under attack.

Ariesagain

At some point, all the talking and rehashing and analyzing in the world doesn't change a basic fact: you are happier apart. What to do about that is going to be on you...I don't see her having the initiative, especially as an active alcoholic.

And I really don't see that you have any empathy problem whatsoever...what I do see is you knocking yourself out trying to understand the understandable and fix the unfixable.

Sendng you a hug.

Poppet35

I can see exactly how I have contributed to this whole mess and how we never fixed the initial problem. I'm happy to admit that and accept that. I hope when she returns from work she doesn't want to go over the old stuff. I never could fix what i thought the problems were because they weren't the actual problem - I was focusing other wrong things.
If there is a way forward its thru forgiveness of each other or we go separately having made peace.
I don't want to go over old wounds any more.
I'll even go so far and admit that I can see how this whole mess exacerbated her drinking but I'm not saying that I'm responsible for her drinking, she made that choice - simply that I can see it didn't help her.
She sounds sad. I've been to a sea rowing open day today and she couldn't even wish me good luck, what she did do is point out what a shame it is we never did anything together for all those years. I can see why we didn't, locked in a perpetual battle, her drinking, feeling unable to plan stuff, days starting so late on a weekend, my boys being small. Not sure she sees it that way.

I'm not sure where my head and heart are. I love her but at the same time I dislike her. Ive spent this week mending myself and focusing on my contribution to this mess and maybe ways forward.

Forgiveness of each other is what we need but not sure it can ever be enough.

LexieCat

Just remember--you can only be responsible for your own forgiveness of her. SHE is responsible for forgiving you--or not. You have no control over that, and if she chooses to be bitter and to continue blaming you, don't waste any more time trying to convince her. That's her stuff to work through, not yours.

Poppet35

Yes, that is why I have very purposefully focused on my role in all this and not hers.
I have to figure out if I can forgive her for everything that has happened and she has to figure out if she can forgive me.

dandylion

Poppet.....is she still actively drinking...?
If she is...that is like trying to carry a bucket of water with a hole in the bottom.....

or....trying to rebuild a house while it is still on fire.......

LexieCat

Dandy's right. You can go through all the forgiveness/expiation, and if she's still drinking she's not going to be able to change and grow. It's one thing to forgive stuff that's happened in the past, it's another to decide you're going to continue to endure unacceptable behavior. That's not changing/improving ANYTHING. And as long as she's still drinking, it's pretty much a guarantee that things will get worse, not better, as time goes on.

Poppet35

Yes she is. Although to what degree I have no idea. She doesn't want to stop just reduce down.
I don't know what awaits me tomorrow. I'm a little wary but going to try and keep things civil and not get wound up.
It nearly happened again after I'd calmed down and we'd talked very calmly and candidly, then she had one too many and she started going over things and I had ever such a hard time keeping my cool and telling her we'd had a good talk, we were in a better place and she was now repeating herself and I wasn't going to go over everything.
It made me sad, that our calm talk started to degenerate.

LexieCat

Of COURSE she wants to "reduce down"--that's what EVERY alcoholic hopes to do. It doesn't work--once you have crossed that line, then any amount of drinking will wind up in the same place. Only worse, as time goes by. You can't turn a pickle back into a cucumber.

Clearly she isn't ready to accept that she can't drink. It could be years, decades--if ever--before she is. How much of your life are you willing to waste? Or your kids' lives--they have only one childhood.

Nata1980

This!

I, too, appear to have an empathy problem. After sticking by XAH for years, putting him through rehabs, being understanding - I still appear to have that pesky empathy problem.

And he is very understanding, sensitive and forgiving in his own eyes. Except he drank, drove DS around drunk, was neglectful all these years, marginally employed and lazy. And yet I lack empathy and don't understand addiction.

IMO - not saying soul searching is a waste of time - but don't tie it to the relationship. And if she is actively drinking - she really has no business pointing out errors of your ways. Therapists and counsellors will not take on active addicts for a reason.

And lastly - I can completely relate to loving and disliking someone at the same time. What you "love" is a sober engaged other half, which does not exist right now. What you "love" are glimpses of normalcy that your brain has collected over time.

Poppet35

She definitely doesn't see the need to stop drinking at all. She starts drinking around 6ish and then only drinks alcohol after that. I've only ever known her go 1 week without booze the whole 8 years I've known her (that was because eof medication). So I'm assuming that that constitutes as an alcoholic.

I'm not sure my empathy is too good, however I know I'm not devoid of empathy. I struggle to apply it to her tho and think that's mixed up in all my resentmens I have.

And yes what I love is the sober version, the fun version, the woman who made me feel so special. But shes no longer here.

I'm dreading tomorrow, I know she's not been sleeping , I have no idea how much she's been drinking so she's not going to be in great shape tomorrow. Going to keep calm though and not rise.

I don't know why I can't extricate myself from this, and I don't know why I've put up with what's she's thrown at me. I've got my financial info together so if it's over I know where I stand. I keep telling myself - if it's over then a small place just the three of us will be happier than fighting for this house, but I've still not quite convinced myself. When I think of my kids, I think I am so bad to be so paralysed by all this.

Poppet35

I m determined not to put up with her behaviour anymore. Trouble is I don't always see what's happening until it's happened. Oh I notice the moods, the silence, the rudeness and I'm so sick of it I don't want to ask "what's wrong" cos I know the answer. But I know the actual reason now. My lack of empathy 8 years ago and the subsequent consequences of never dealing with that.
I don't think she has any intention of ever not drinking.
She hits the bottle as soon as the going gets tough, she uses spirits to sleep if she isn't sleeping.

LexieCat

You're not "bad," but you have to do everything in your power to become UNparalyzed. Use some of that energy and effort you've been pouring into saving this unsalvageable relationship to get YOU in a position where you can do what is necessary for you and your kids.

I know it's tough to change directions, but that's what you have to do. Completely change directions. There's no way to do it gradually. You have to tell yourself "no more" on trying to fix things with her, and put everything you've got into walking away.

You CAN extricate yourself. Stop telling yourself that you can't. Lots of us have done it, and we didn't love our alcoholics any less than you do. There is a time for self-preservation, and to save your kids from the chaos. This is it. You WILL heal (unless you keep trying to hang on, checking back with her, etc.--that's guaranteed to keep you in pain), and you WILL be happy again.

LexieCat

No, no, NO. It isn't your "lack of empathy" that is the problem. It's HER ALCOHOLISM. And that is not CAUSED by anyone else. Nobody KNOWS what causes it--but you sure didn't.

And the only way to "not put up with her behavior" is to walk away. As long as you are together, you are going to be living with it. "Detaching" or avoiding are not solutions to the problem--they are temporary measures that can make life a bit more bearable in the short term.

Ariesagain

So according to her, the source of all your problems as a couple and of her alcohol addiction stem from your "lack of empathy" eight long years ago?

Sentence served. Sentence more than served...if you'd actually murdered her you might well have done less time.

It may be only an American term, but since this is a family-friendly board, the expression "utter bushwa" will have to do.

Poppet35

Oh no she's not blaming her alcoholism on my lack of empathy but the source of all her and my unhappiNess stems from my lack of empathy. Because it never got dealt with its lingered and caused our problems in a vicious circle. Her unhappiness has led to her drinking more.

She drank when I met her but I didn't know the extent of it and had never known someone with a drinking problem. I had no deals how it would affect my life.

TimeForMe

Poppet - Maybe I'm missing something. The majority of your posts refer to you bending over backwards to "make her happy", and you seem to be defending and/or excusing her behavior. Those things, to me, indicate emotion. I think if you had no empathy, you wouldn't care about how she feels.

How the heck are you responsible for her unhappiness? Even if you had zero empathy, it would STILL not be your fault that she was unhappy. She is the only one responsible for her level of happiness. You are the only one responsible for your level of happiness.

I don't get how you think you "make" her unhappy. I'm really trying to understand, since you are obviously in a great deal of pain in this relationship.

I get it, I've been there. I got blamed for his drinking. It didn't matter, nothing I did or didn't do caused it. He didn't want to take responsibility for himself. Simple as that.

LexieCat

She's STILL wrong. EVERYTHING doesn't stem from that. Maybe some conflict did, but the alcoholism overshadows everything else. You could resolve everything stemming from that initial "lack of empathy" (which I seriously question, just based on what I know of you from your posts--you bend over backward trying to understand HER), and the alcoholism would still make this a non-viable situation. Resolving it won't cure her alcoholism.

And FYI, it's very true that if one never drinks, one will never become alcoholic, and every alcoholic starts somewhere. The thing is, she is past the point where your changing anything will make her drinking any different. An alcoholic cannot control her drinking--her life could be perfect, you could be the partner of her dreams, but if she drinks--at all--it would all go to hell anyway.