At wits end
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Bowling Green
Posts: 80
At wits end
Some of you are familiar with our ongoing story.
Our 37-year-old son who has depression, anxiety, social anxiety, low self-esteem, ADD and is an alcoholic lives with us. He has not been good at holding down jobs. Some he has been fired from and some he just walked off because he wasn't going to do the work required. He has been on medications and has seen psychiatrists and psychologist since he was in high school over 20 years ago. At my encouragement, he has applied for disability and there's at least a year left in that process. He is manipulative, lazy and, like an alcoholic, he lies to us. Our current living situation is very uncomfortable and many in Alanon and other "normal" people have advised us that he should be expelled from the house. This would leave him homeless. He currently has a new job, but he is only getting 15 hours a week when he needs to have 30. Here's the latest:
I have talked with him about doing a budget. He didn’t see how he could do a budget on the few hours he’s currently getting at work. I told him (as I have explained multiple times before) that he would have to get another part-time job to get his hours up to 30 a week. He did not like that. I then went over what his income would be and what his rent would be, and how much discretionary money he’d have left. He would have plenty but not enough to support his lifestyle of smoking, energy drinks, constant fast food, and the game store. I told him we’d discussed that he’d have to be frugal to pay us back (pay rent) when we helped him buy a car he wanted (rather than taking the better car we offered to give him). He didn’t complain then, nor when we helped him buy new tires, or repair his transmission all for this poorly chosen new car(which had twice the mileage of the one we'd offered him). He didn’t mind the fact that he’d have to live frugally when we were loaning him money.
He said he had worked his ass off at the new job and I explained that he hadn’t even put in one 40 hour week. Only one week did they give him 32 hours and the other three weeks he only got 15.
I explained to him that everyone who knows our situation thinks he has it made here, living with his parents in a nice house, food, etc. and has no motivation to grow up. I explained that since he was living with us that he was basically living as a child at home and not as an adult. I said that he was going to have to start showing some adult maturity if he wanted to live here
I told him if he preferred, his mother and I could back off and allow him to make his own decisions and live with the consequences. He said he didn’t know what that means and I explained that it meant he could live on his own, but not with us. He did not like that.
He’s not keeping his post-rehab agreement with us in small ways and his attitude is not good. He isn’t blatantly oppositional, butt he has a poor attitude when he does what I ask. If I ask him to empty the dishwasher he doesn’t look too happy about it because it’s not one of his regular chores. He’s not followed through on his post-rehab plan and, when I asked if he had one he said not. But, I know for a fact he left rehab with a written plan, so he lied to me.
His psychiatrist put him back on Adderall which has given him problems in the past with abuse issues. I am supposed to dole it out to him so I put it in a weekly pill box and now he’s using it improperly so I have to go to a once a day system.
His mother and I have discussed the work situation and have decided that it is not depression, anxiety, ADD, or the mental illness that is creating this attitude and situation. While we know how hard it is for him to live with those conditions, his problem right now is a flat out decision that he wants to live with us on his terms and does not want to live with the house rules or cooperate willingly with us.
We have decided to give him one week to see if his current job gives him more hours or the promotion that he’d thought he was getting (he hasn’t gotten that promotion to full-time and they are using him about 15 hours a week just to do the hard work of unloading the truck without the other responsibilities he’d been promised). If they don’t give him more hours within a week, he will have two weeks to get another part-time job or get out of the house. This is going to be terribly hard to enforce. I actually kicked him out of the house at the age of 18 due to these same type problems, but it seems harder now. I am older and sort of worn out.
I hope I am not downplaying the mental illness part of this, but he even slacks on getting his disability paperwork completed unless I prompt him to do it. He has clearly made a career of lying to us like alcoholics do and we’re just tired. We are not the same people we used to be, it has changed us. Something has to change. We're 61 and 62 and should be getting ready to enjoy retirement instead of struggling with an adult child who won't grow up.
Sorry to go on and on but it helps is a small way to vent. Is there anyone out there with the same situation? How did you deal with it?
Our 37-year-old son who has depression, anxiety, social anxiety, low self-esteem, ADD and is an alcoholic lives with us. He has not been good at holding down jobs. Some he has been fired from and some he just walked off because he wasn't going to do the work required. He has been on medications and has seen psychiatrists and psychologist since he was in high school over 20 years ago. At my encouragement, he has applied for disability and there's at least a year left in that process. He is manipulative, lazy and, like an alcoholic, he lies to us. Our current living situation is very uncomfortable and many in Alanon and other "normal" people have advised us that he should be expelled from the house. This would leave him homeless. He currently has a new job, but he is only getting 15 hours a week when he needs to have 30. Here's the latest:
I have talked with him about doing a budget. He didn’t see how he could do a budget on the few hours he’s currently getting at work. I told him (as I have explained multiple times before) that he would have to get another part-time job to get his hours up to 30 a week. He did not like that. I then went over what his income would be and what his rent would be, and how much discretionary money he’d have left. He would have plenty but not enough to support his lifestyle of smoking, energy drinks, constant fast food, and the game store. I told him we’d discussed that he’d have to be frugal to pay us back (pay rent) when we helped him buy a car he wanted (rather than taking the better car we offered to give him). He didn’t complain then, nor when we helped him buy new tires, or repair his transmission all for this poorly chosen new car(which had twice the mileage of the one we'd offered him). He didn’t mind the fact that he’d have to live frugally when we were loaning him money.
He said he had worked his ass off at the new job and I explained that he hadn’t even put in one 40 hour week. Only one week did they give him 32 hours and the other three weeks he only got 15.
I explained to him that everyone who knows our situation thinks he has it made here, living with his parents in a nice house, food, etc. and has no motivation to grow up. I explained that since he was living with us that he was basically living as a child at home and not as an adult. I said that he was going to have to start showing some adult maturity if he wanted to live here
I told him if he preferred, his mother and I could back off and allow him to make his own decisions and live with the consequences. He said he didn’t know what that means and I explained that it meant he could live on his own, but not with us. He did not like that.
He’s not keeping his post-rehab agreement with us in small ways and his attitude is not good. He isn’t blatantly oppositional, butt he has a poor attitude when he does what I ask. If I ask him to empty the dishwasher he doesn’t look too happy about it because it’s not one of his regular chores. He’s not followed through on his post-rehab plan and, when I asked if he had one he said not. But, I know for a fact he left rehab with a written plan, so he lied to me.
His psychiatrist put him back on Adderall which has given him problems in the past with abuse issues. I am supposed to dole it out to him so I put it in a weekly pill box and now he’s using it improperly so I have to go to a once a day system.
His mother and I have discussed the work situation and have decided that it is not depression, anxiety, ADD, or the mental illness that is creating this attitude and situation. While we know how hard it is for him to live with those conditions, his problem right now is a flat out decision that he wants to live with us on his terms and does not want to live with the house rules or cooperate willingly with us.
We have decided to give him one week to see if his current job gives him more hours or the promotion that he’d thought he was getting (he hasn’t gotten that promotion to full-time and they are using him about 15 hours a week just to do the hard work of unloading the truck without the other responsibilities he’d been promised). If they don’t give him more hours within a week, he will have two weeks to get another part-time job or get out of the house. This is going to be terribly hard to enforce. I actually kicked him out of the house at the age of 18 due to these same type problems, but it seems harder now. I am older and sort of worn out.
I hope I am not downplaying the mental illness part of this, but he even slacks on getting his disability paperwork completed unless I prompt him to do it. He has clearly made a career of lying to us like alcoholics do and we’re just tired. We are not the same people we used to be, it has changed us. Something has to change. We're 61 and 62 and should be getting ready to enjoy retirement instead of struggling with an adult child who won't grow up.
Sorry to go on and on but it helps is a small way to vent. Is there anyone out there with the same situation? How did you deal with it?
Member
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 54
Hello Jonbald,
I agree with those that recommend evicting your son.
He is old enough to reap the consequences of his bad behavior and laziness . As parents you have been patient and generous.
I have had mental illness since a teenager and never received medical treatment of any kind. I worked 3 jobs until I went to school full time and then I worked one job during schooling for my current profession. My father died during this time so I applied and received welfare, food stamps and financial aide for school. It was difficult but I got through it.
I am also 60 years old and plan to work for several more years. I can understand how your wife and self are worn out.
Please take care during this difficult time.
I agree with those that recommend evicting your son.
He is old enough to reap the consequences of his bad behavior and laziness . As parents you have been patient and generous.
I have had mental illness since a teenager and never received medical treatment of any kind. I worked 3 jobs until I went to school full time and then I worked one job during schooling for my current profession. My father died during this time so I applied and received welfare, food stamps and financial aide for school. It was difficult but I got through it.
I am also 60 years old and plan to work for several more years. I can understand how your wife and self are worn out.
Please take care during this difficult time.
Recovered People Pleaser
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Heart of Dixie
Posts: 391
Allowing our children to face the consequences of their own actions is often one of the most nurturing things we can do. We can not be blamed for their mistakes any more than we can take credit for their successes.
The skill of detachment is well worth acquiring. That is the separation of emotions from situations, so that we can view things as they are rather than how we wish they were and so that we may discern the best option of action or inaction that our circumstances allow. It is neither kind nor unkind it is Neutral. Love is not required to acquire the skill..Many high stress professions (Military, Law Enforcement, Medical, Legal & even Sales communities) utilize and even teach courses in it as part of their staff development programs
I had to come to understand than enabling was a form of Harm..not help and that it created an environment of dependency not only for the A. but for me as well. It is not a healthy thing for either party. When I understood that I was not to "create nor prevent a crises" and why and as I developed my conscious contact with my HP I began to understand the why's to a better extend..I also learned that Peace - was..not needing to know..what happens next. I also found that meetings bring clarity.
The skill of detachment is well worth acquiring. That is the separation of emotions from situations, so that we can view things as they are rather than how we wish they were and so that we may discern the best option of action or inaction that our circumstances allow. It is neither kind nor unkind it is Neutral. Love is not required to acquire the skill..Many high stress professions (Military, Law Enforcement, Medical, Legal & even Sales communities) utilize and even teach courses in it as part of their staff development programs
I had to come to understand than enabling was a form of Harm..not help and that it created an environment of dependency not only for the A. but for me as well. It is not a healthy thing for either party. When I understood that I was not to "create nor prevent a crises" and why and as I developed my conscious contact with my HP I began to understand the why's to a better extend..I also learned that Peace - was..not needing to know..what happens next. I also found that meetings bring clarity.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Bowling Green
Posts: 80
Originally Posted by Ifnotforgrace 
Allowing our children to face the consequences of their own actions is often one of the most nurturing things we can do. We can not be blamed for their mistakes any more than we can take credit for their successes.
The skill of detachment is well worth acquiring. That is the separation of emotions from situations, so that we can view things as they are rather than how we wish they were and so that we may discern the best option of action or inaction that our circumstances allow. It is neither kind nor unkind it is Neutral. Love is not required to acquire the skill..Many high stress professions (Military, Law Enforcement, Medical, Legal & even Sales communities) utilize and even teach courses in it as part of their staff development programs
I had to come to understand than enabling was a form of Harm..not help and that it created an environment of dependency not only for the A. but for me as well. It is not a healthy thing for either party. When I understood that I was not to "create nor prevent a crises" and why and as I developed my conscious contact with my HP I began to understand the why's to a better extend..I also learned that Peace - was..not needing to know..what happens next. I also found that meetings bring clarity.
The skill of detachment is well worth acquiring. That is the separation of emotions from situations, so that we can view things as they are rather than how we wish they were and so that we may discern the best option of action or inaction that our circumstances allow. It is neither kind nor unkind it is Neutral. Love is not required to acquire the skill..Many high stress professions (Military, Law Enforcement, Medical, Legal & even Sales communities) utilize and even teach courses in it as part of their staff development programs
I had to come to understand than enabling was a form of Harm..not help and that it created an environment of dependency not only for the A. but for me as well. It is not a healthy thing for either party. When I understood that I was not to "create nor prevent a crises" and why and as I developed my conscious contact with my HP I began to understand the why's to a better extend..I also learned that Peace - was..not needing to know..what happens next. I also found that meetings bring clarity.
We are waiting until after Christmas, but are giving him a hard move-out date. It's going to be difficult, but that's why I've gotten a sponsor and a therapist to help me deal with interactions and emotions. I'm working a 12-step workbook within FA.
I've been through another 12-step program myself years ago (OA) so I've been through the steps but it's different this time. I'm older and the disease (alcoholism in the family) has progressed so it's harder. Thanks for your description of enabling. It helps along with the other reading and work I'm doing.
Community Greeter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
jonbald.....I was wondering where you went and what was happening in your household!! Great, great, moves that you have made!!
I wanted, so badly, for you to get this k I nd of help!
(That was why I was so "pushy"...lol).....
I hope that you and your wife continue on...doing this work.....
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Bowling Green
Posts: 80
Here's a brief update for everyone who followed this thread. I've joined a group similar to Alanon called Families Anonymous. I have a sponsor and do daily E-mail meetings. Once a week I do a computer networked meeting where we actually talk to each other. We have no F2F meetings where I live.
My son's sponsor fired him because he wouldn't try to get better. He crapped out on a therapy plan he had with a new therapist. He's not working at all, I'm not sure where he gets what little money he has.
We've told him he needs to be out by March 1, 2017. I gave him a one-page detailed letter explaining lots of things and telling him what we will and will not allow. We have clear boundaries. He still is sleeping and playing games at the Hobby Store. If he's looking for a job it beats me. There's nothing we can do for him.
I am working the program best I can to cope with this, but I cry almost daily. I'm having to release him to whatever may happen and I know it doesn't always work out good. I will muddle my way through it.
My son's sponsor fired him because he wouldn't try to get better. He crapped out on a therapy plan he had with a new therapist. He's not working at all, I'm not sure where he gets what little money he has.
We've told him he needs to be out by March 1, 2017. I gave him a one-page detailed letter explaining lots of things and telling him what we will and will not allow. We have clear boundaries. He still is sleeping and playing games at the Hobby Store. If he's looking for a job it beats me. There's nothing we can do for him.
I am working the program best I can to cope with this, but I cry almost daily. I'm having to release him to whatever may happen and I know it doesn't always work out good. I will muddle my way through it.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: USA
Posts: 18
Its not going to be easy but like you said, staying with you is making him think, behave and work like a child. You have to find a way for him to start staying alone. By the way, do you want him to get to your age without achieving anything?
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