Do I knowingly go into marriage and having children with an alcoholic?
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 3
Do I knowingly go into marriage and having children with an alcoholic?
I am completely new here (and to any other internet forum in general), but I feel like I’m constantly searching myself for answers, or for hope, and do not know where else to turn at this point. I do not feel I have anyone in my life that I can truly talk to about it that will understand. I have a few close friends and family that are aware of some of what’s going on… but I tend to hide most if it. I have been a shy person my whole life, and struggle with anxiety - and for the last few years, depression. This is already my second re-write… it is hard to accurately get the words out without writing a novel. So… I pre-apologize for the length.
I am currently engaged to my best friend. We have known each other for 9 years, been together for 7 of those, lived together for over 5, and engaged for 1. He is the funniest person I have ever known, so smart, caring, and amazing with children. We have been trying to have our own for over 2 years now, sadly with no luck. We have talked about getting married for a long time, but were never in any rush. Both of us try to adhere to a “no set timeline for life” mentality. We are on the same page when it comes to having children, and how we would like to raise them. My fiance is also an alcoholic.
For those of you who are married and have children with alcoholics - if you could do it all over again, would you make the same choice? Am I knowingly entering into only struggles and heartache? Is there hope? I love him so much, and wish I didn’t have this feeling of “doom” in my head… but I do.
My fiance does not admit he is an alcoholic. He has admitted the following to me before:
That he is a “functioning addict“.
That he has “toned down” his drinking (and smoking cigarettes), and that comparatively is well in control of his habits.
That if he didn’t drink, his addictive personality would “need” something else.
That when he drinks, he feels like he is the “life of the party”.
That drinking helps his insomnia.
That he is financially irresponsible.
That he has “been like this as long as I’ve known him, so I knew what I was getting myself into”.
That of course he would quit drinking as much as he does once we have kids.
I first met him and began dating him when drinking was a big part of his job/lifestyle, as he worked in the music industry. It never bothered me at first, and I too would drink (not often or heavily, but socially) - and it was fun! He was charming, affectionate, and I found him just as entertaining drunk as when he was sober. That began to change about 3 years into our relationship. It began to bother me so much that I cut back on my own drinking, avoided being around him when he drinking and/or avoided situations where he would end up drinking, and altogether stopped drinking in hopes of getting pregnant the last year or so.
He does not drink everyday (as far as I know). He does not physically harm me. EVER. He has never emotionally abused me by calling me names, and rarely says hurtful things (apart from deflecting negative attention on himself when I start talking to him about his drinking). He does, however, do the following when he drinks:
Provoke arguments or debates with me, and does not let up until I concede to his opinion.
Repeat himself. A lot.
Get offended and upset when I attempt to end a argument, debate, or story that I’ve heard 10 times.
Talks about the “end of the world”.
Fall, hurt himself or break stuff accidentally.
Leave doors open, leave stove burners on, etc.
Wet himself or the bed.
Say inappropriate things, mumble, or debate with family or friends until I stop it out of embarrassment.
Has no sex drive. (A little hard to conceive a child with little/no sex).
Has money for alcohol and cigarettes, but is sometimes lacking when it comes to bills.
Has horrible credit, owes taxes, is financially irresponsible to the point where when we were in need of buying our first home last year, did not qualify to be on the mortgage, and I had to have another co-signor.
Drives. (Though he denies this).
Drives with me in the car. (Denied).
Lies about the fact that he has drunk alcohol (which is the only reason why the above happened).
Has missed family get-togethers, plans with friends, work, etc. - because he is hungover or still drunk from the night before. A lot.
Hides alcohol in his vehicle and in the garage.
Takes cash out of his bank account to pay for alcohol so there is no paper trail.
As much as he thinks he is entertaining and the “life of the party”, I see it in people’s faces that that is not always the case. And I do not view him like that at all anymore. I find him to be utterly irritating, and honestly dislike being around him when he’s drinking. Fine. Ok. Then don’t be around him, right? Wrong. Since leaving the music industry about 3 years ago, he continued drinking… just alone at home now. I have encouraged him to go out with friends, but he generally stays home unless we go out together. And I have literally asked him, that if he would like to continue to drink, to do it somewhere else, and not be around me while he does it. He has PLENTY of people in his life to do this with, including people that would let him stay the night when he cannot drive. He chooses to continue to drink at home. With me. Lie about it and/or say he is “working on drinking less”.
How do I know he is lying? He is my best friend, I know him well enough to tell be the way he talks, walks, or even in his eyes when he has had more than a couple drinks. But when I ask him, he will lie. And I never accuse. I never yell. I ask. Politely.
And he lies.
If he lies about drinking. Could he be lying about other stuff? I literally feel like I’m going crazy. And not only that, but I have recently discovered that he “gas lights” me. Completely. I did not know this was a thing until I went online looking for answers. When we get in arguments, he gets super defensive. He turns the fight back on me. He asks me to repeat things I’ve said. Verbatim. He questions my integrity and invalidates my feelings when I cannot do so. He literally makes me questions myself and things I have said to the point where I doubt my own memory.
Aside from feeling crazy, I feel a sadness inside of me like I cannot breathe. All I want is to become a mother. And I know that is one of the things that he loves about me. We both want children so bad.
He will not give up drinking for me. That has been proven. This has been a 4 year battle (for me, and who knows how long for him). He will not give up drinking for our potential children, even after 2 years of telling him that drinking and smoking are the FIRST things to cut out to up your fertility. I ask myself, “he must not want children as badly as he says, if he cannot change his habits to make it happen”. But the BIG question I ask myself is…
If he cannot change himself for me, or his potential children, why would I think that he could change it for our children once they are born?
Do I keep hoping and trying to help and support him in this disease? I do understand it is a disease, and that he does not choose this. I know for a fact that no one supports him more than me. And to top it all off, his father died tragically in a car accident one month after we were engaged last year. He is still a mess from it. Any time anyone asks about wedding plans, I usually say that we are still reeling from losing him… but in all honesty I don’t know if I’m setting myself for a life that I don’t want by planning a wedding/marriage with an alcoholic.
I don’t want a husband or father to my children that is unreliable.
I don’t want to have to look after a husband like he is a child - ready to stop him from falling, leaving doors open, or wetting the bed.
I do want a husband that gives a **** and is willing to try. Just try.
I am preparing myself to give an ultimatum. Attempt to get sober. Attend AA and/or therapy. Try.
Or I need to be done. Not want. Need. I love him SO much. And I do not want anything bad to happen to him. And I am SO scared that if I end it, something will. He has admitted to me that years before we were together, he had tried to commit suicide.
How do you leave someone, knowing that they will either drink more or hurt themselves?
Is it possible to end a relationship, but continue a supportive friendship to help them get sober? Or should you cut all ties?
How do you ask them to leave a home that is “ours” together?
From what I understand about alcoholism, ultimatums do not work. I am going into this with that in mind. I have also looked into going to Al-Anon, but have yet to get the courage to go.
This is my first step.
I am currently engaged to my best friend. We have known each other for 9 years, been together for 7 of those, lived together for over 5, and engaged for 1. He is the funniest person I have ever known, so smart, caring, and amazing with children. We have been trying to have our own for over 2 years now, sadly with no luck. We have talked about getting married for a long time, but were never in any rush. Both of us try to adhere to a “no set timeline for life” mentality. We are on the same page when it comes to having children, and how we would like to raise them. My fiance is also an alcoholic.
For those of you who are married and have children with alcoholics - if you could do it all over again, would you make the same choice? Am I knowingly entering into only struggles and heartache? Is there hope? I love him so much, and wish I didn’t have this feeling of “doom” in my head… but I do.
My fiance does not admit he is an alcoholic. He has admitted the following to me before:
That he is a “functioning addict“.
That he has “toned down” his drinking (and smoking cigarettes), and that comparatively is well in control of his habits.
That if he didn’t drink, his addictive personality would “need” something else.
That when he drinks, he feels like he is the “life of the party”.
That drinking helps his insomnia.
That he is financially irresponsible.
That he has “been like this as long as I’ve known him, so I knew what I was getting myself into”.
That of course he would quit drinking as much as he does once we have kids.
I first met him and began dating him when drinking was a big part of his job/lifestyle, as he worked in the music industry. It never bothered me at first, and I too would drink (not often or heavily, but socially) - and it was fun! He was charming, affectionate, and I found him just as entertaining drunk as when he was sober. That began to change about 3 years into our relationship. It began to bother me so much that I cut back on my own drinking, avoided being around him when he drinking and/or avoided situations where he would end up drinking, and altogether stopped drinking in hopes of getting pregnant the last year or so.
He does not drink everyday (as far as I know). He does not physically harm me. EVER. He has never emotionally abused me by calling me names, and rarely says hurtful things (apart from deflecting negative attention on himself when I start talking to him about his drinking). He does, however, do the following when he drinks:
Provoke arguments or debates with me, and does not let up until I concede to his opinion.
Repeat himself. A lot.
Get offended and upset when I attempt to end a argument, debate, or story that I’ve heard 10 times.
Talks about the “end of the world”.
Fall, hurt himself or break stuff accidentally.
Leave doors open, leave stove burners on, etc.
Wet himself or the bed.
Say inappropriate things, mumble, or debate with family or friends until I stop it out of embarrassment.
Has no sex drive. (A little hard to conceive a child with little/no sex).
Has money for alcohol and cigarettes, but is sometimes lacking when it comes to bills.
Has horrible credit, owes taxes, is financially irresponsible to the point where when we were in need of buying our first home last year, did not qualify to be on the mortgage, and I had to have another co-signor.
Drives. (Though he denies this).
Drives with me in the car. (Denied).
Lies about the fact that he has drunk alcohol (which is the only reason why the above happened).
Has missed family get-togethers, plans with friends, work, etc. - because he is hungover or still drunk from the night before. A lot.
Hides alcohol in his vehicle and in the garage.
Takes cash out of his bank account to pay for alcohol so there is no paper trail.
As much as he thinks he is entertaining and the “life of the party”, I see it in people’s faces that that is not always the case. And I do not view him like that at all anymore. I find him to be utterly irritating, and honestly dislike being around him when he’s drinking. Fine. Ok. Then don’t be around him, right? Wrong. Since leaving the music industry about 3 years ago, he continued drinking… just alone at home now. I have encouraged him to go out with friends, but he generally stays home unless we go out together. And I have literally asked him, that if he would like to continue to drink, to do it somewhere else, and not be around me while he does it. He has PLENTY of people in his life to do this with, including people that would let him stay the night when he cannot drive. He chooses to continue to drink at home. With me. Lie about it and/or say he is “working on drinking less”.
How do I know he is lying? He is my best friend, I know him well enough to tell be the way he talks, walks, or even in his eyes when he has had more than a couple drinks. But when I ask him, he will lie. And I never accuse. I never yell. I ask. Politely.
And he lies.
If he lies about drinking. Could he be lying about other stuff? I literally feel like I’m going crazy. And not only that, but I have recently discovered that he “gas lights” me. Completely. I did not know this was a thing until I went online looking for answers. When we get in arguments, he gets super defensive. He turns the fight back on me. He asks me to repeat things I’ve said. Verbatim. He questions my integrity and invalidates my feelings when I cannot do so. He literally makes me questions myself and things I have said to the point where I doubt my own memory.
Aside from feeling crazy, I feel a sadness inside of me like I cannot breathe. All I want is to become a mother. And I know that is one of the things that he loves about me. We both want children so bad.
He will not give up drinking for me. That has been proven. This has been a 4 year battle (for me, and who knows how long for him). He will not give up drinking for our potential children, even after 2 years of telling him that drinking and smoking are the FIRST things to cut out to up your fertility. I ask myself, “he must not want children as badly as he says, if he cannot change his habits to make it happen”. But the BIG question I ask myself is…
If he cannot change himself for me, or his potential children, why would I think that he could change it for our children once they are born?
Do I keep hoping and trying to help and support him in this disease? I do understand it is a disease, and that he does not choose this. I know for a fact that no one supports him more than me. And to top it all off, his father died tragically in a car accident one month after we were engaged last year. He is still a mess from it. Any time anyone asks about wedding plans, I usually say that we are still reeling from losing him… but in all honesty I don’t know if I’m setting myself for a life that I don’t want by planning a wedding/marriage with an alcoholic.
I don’t want a husband or father to my children that is unreliable.
I don’t want to have to look after a husband like he is a child - ready to stop him from falling, leaving doors open, or wetting the bed.
I do want a husband that gives a **** and is willing to try. Just try.
I am preparing myself to give an ultimatum. Attempt to get sober. Attend AA and/or therapy. Try.
Or I need to be done. Not want. Need. I love him SO much. And I do not want anything bad to happen to him. And I am SO scared that if I end it, something will. He has admitted to me that years before we were together, he had tried to commit suicide.
How do you leave someone, knowing that they will either drink more or hurt themselves?
Is it possible to end a relationship, but continue a supportive friendship to help them get sober? Or should you cut all ties?
How do you ask them to leave a home that is “ours” together?
From what I understand about alcoholism, ultimatums do not work. I am going into this with that in mind. I have also looked into going to Al-Anon, but have yet to get the courage to go.
This is my first step.
RIP Sweet Suki
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: In my sanctuary, my home
Posts: 39,871
Please go to Al-anon and PLEASE...do not marry this man until he admits his addiction and spends at least a solid year in recovery. Then, you can consider possibly trying a relationship again, but not marriage for at least another year of solid, consistent recovery.
He will drink or hurt himself whether you are there or not. His addiction has nothing to do with you.
My opinion is that it is easier to cut all ties.
If he owns the house along with you, you cannot force him to leave. It will then be up to you to leave.
How do you leave someone, knowing that they will either drink more or hurt themselves?
Is it possible to end a relationship, but continue a supportive friendship to help them get sober? Or should you cut all ties?
How do you ask them to leave a home that is “ours” together?
Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: northern michigan. not the U.P.
Posts: 15,281
very good 1st step and welcome!!!
so, now that its all down on paper( or computer) you can read what you are dealing with at this time.
and it will only get worse. all them reasons for drinking? theyre all just excuses. hes in denial.
so, onto you.
"Do I keep hoping and trying to help and support him in this disease?"
there will be many more people here with much better answers to this and your other questions, but this one, from my side- NOBODY could help me until I WANTED help myself. not NEEDED help, but WANTED.
and anyone who was around me who thought they were helping and supporting me? they were aiding in my destruction and I was doing my damdest to take them down with me. misery loves company and I did what I could to make the people around me as miserable, or more, than me.
from what I read, and just my opinion, you are setting yourself up for a life of gloom,dispair, and agony if you marry him.
so, onto that alanon thing...good on ya for lookin into it!!! I imagine walking into the 1st alanon meeting can bring fear like it was for me walking into my 1st aa meeting:
fear of the unknown.
think about this: its pretty crazy to be living in the insanity and chaos yet hard to walk into somewhere where there will be a group of people that have been in your shoes and are there to share their ESH and help you help yourself, isn't it? crazy what fear does,isnt it?
welp, the great FACT is walking through the doors for your first meeting will be the hardest and it wont hurt you one bit. and keep going back!!
there will be people here that have a LOT of ESH and suggestions on what to do and what literature to read.
PLEASE keep comin back!!
so, now that its all down on paper( or computer) you can read what you are dealing with at this time.
and it will only get worse. all them reasons for drinking? theyre all just excuses. hes in denial.
so, onto you.
"Do I keep hoping and trying to help and support him in this disease?"
there will be many more people here with much better answers to this and your other questions, but this one, from my side- NOBODY could help me until I WANTED help myself. not NEEDED help, but WANTED.
and anyone who was around me who thought they were helping and supporting me? they were aiding in my destruction and I was doing my damdest to take them down with me. misery loves company and I did what I could to make the people around me as miserable, or more, than me.
from what I read, and just my opinion, you are setting yourself up for a life of gloom,dispair, and agony if you marry him.
so, onto that alanon thing...good on ya for lookin into it!!! I imagine walking into the 1st alanon meeting can bring fear like it was for me walking into my 1st aa meeting:
fear of the unknown.
think about this: its pretty crazy to be living in the insanity and chaos yet hard to walk into somewhere where there will be a group of people that have been in your shoes and are there to share their ESH and help you help yourself, isn't it? crazy what fear does,isnt it?
welp, the great FACT is walking through the doors for your first meeting will be the hardest and it wont hurt you one bit. and keep going back!!
there will be people here that have a LOT of ESH and suggestions on what to do and what literature to read.
PLEASE keep comin back!!
Guest
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Northwest
Posts: 4,215
First and foremost...please please please do not continue to try to get pregnant with this man. There is a significant risk that you will be raising this child alone, but far more important is the real risk that your partner's alcoholism could cause health and developmental problems in your child. Here's a link:
https://www.sciencedaily.com/release...0214075405.htm
There are plenty of other sources--just google "fetal alcohol syndrome father."
I want to be gentle here, because you're being really brave and smart in thinking all this through. What you're going to hear isn't going to be easy...and that is that there is no way for you to cure or treat his alcoholism. The only hope he has is for him to want recovery desperately on his own...and it doesn't sound like he does.
If you want to stay with him, it may well mean giving up your dream of having children, between the fetal health risks, the danger your partner's drinking would pose to the safety of a young child, the negative effects for that child to be raised in an alcoholic home, and the consequences of your partner's financial responsibility.
I hope you'll stay around and read everything posted here in the Friends and Family of Alcoholics section. You'll learn a ton and you'll learn that the good and the bad news is that you're not alone.
Sending you a big hug.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/release...0214075405.htm
There are plenty of other sources--just google "fetal alcohol syndrome father."
I want to be gentle here, because you're being really brave and smart in thinking all this through. What you're going to hear isn't going to be easy...and that is that there is no way for you to cure or treat his alcoholism. The only hope he has is for him to want recovery desperately on his own...and it doesn't sound like he does.
If you want to stay with him, it may well mean giving up your dream of having children, between the fetal health risks, the danger your partner's drinking would pose to the safety of a young child, the negative effects for that child to be raised in an alcoholic home, and the consequences of your partner's financial responsibility.
I hope you'll stay around and read everything posted here in the Friends and Family of Alcoholics section. You'll learn a ton and you'll learn that the good and the bad news is that you're not alone.
Sending you a big hug.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Midwest
Posts: 8,334
Please do not marry this man and certainly do not have children with him! He alone, can stop his drinking, he has to WANT to....no amount of cajoling, reasoning etc, will work.
Bringing a child into this world, with this man , just isn't a good idea.....he needs some solid recovery time, before he becomes a father.
Bringing a child into this world, with this man , just isn't a good idea.....he needs some solid recovery time, before he becomes a father.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Wareham, Mass
Posts: 7,067
Hello, Always, and welcome. A suggestion: peruse this site to see how people in relationships with alcoholics are doing. Could be informative for you. As the adult child of an alcoholic, as someone who has had her own battles with drink (now in recovery), and as a witness to a sibling's active alcoholism, your thoughtfully written letter raised many red flags for me. The reddest of those is that your SO is incontinent when he drinks. This means to me that he is drinking A LOT, and that things could be amiss physically. Good luck. Keep coming back. Peace.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 3
Thank you for all your support.
Thank you so much for all your responses and support. Even before reading everyone's replies, I was not in need of convincing. I know this is something I have to do. It is not a hard decision, just a sad one. I love him so much, and as a natural caretaker, just want to help him.
tomsteve and pondlady - I love what you pointed out that he needs to WANT to get sober. He can NEED for it to happen, but no matter how much I want it, it won't happen until HE wants it. Wake-up call!
ariesagain - thank you for your information on fetal alcohol syndrome from the paternal standpoint. I had honestly not heard of this! What a great wake-up call for me, and when I bring it into talking to my fiance, it will be a great "non-gray area" point to make to him about what he WANTS. Children or to continue his current path. Black or white.
suki - the house is not in his name. I just feel bad about saying he cannot remain in the home we picked together and have envisioned our future in.
maudcat - the incontinence and many of the more extreme things I mentioned happen few and far between these days. Believe me after it happened more than once, I tend to watch him like a hawk to make sure he uses the restroom often. But obviously I shouldn't have to do this for a grown man. Now, since he is drinking most often in secret because he knows it bothers me, he doesn't get "plastered" like he used to, and this doesn't happen. He knows just how much he can drink to "get away with it". I find this worse. The hiding it and lying hurts me more than having to wash the sheets. And he can't hide it, and is a bad liar. I always know.
Any tips or helpful quotes/readings to help me gather courage for the "talk" that needs to happen? I am so nervous and extremely sad when I think about doing it. I AM doing it though. No question. Sobriety. Period.
As far as Alanon goes... Again - nervous.
How much sharing do they ask of you during your first meetings? I am incredibly shy. An idea or example of someone's first experience would put my mind at ease a little.
Thank you again for ALL the love!!
tomsteve and pondlady - I love what you pointed out that he needs to WANT to get sober. He can NEED for it to happen, but no matter how much I want it, it won't happen until HE wants it. Wake-up call!
ariesagain - thank you for your information on fetal alcohol syndrome from the paternal standpoint. I had honestly not heard of this! What a great wake-up call for me, and when I bring it into talking to my fiance, it will be a great "non-gray area" point to make to him about what he WANTS. Children or to continue his current path. Black or white.
suki - the house is not in his name. I just feel bad about saying he cannot remain in the home we picked together and have envisioned our future in.
maudcat - the incontinence and many of the more extreme things I mentioned happen few and far between these days. Believe me after it happened more than once, I tend to watch him like a hawk to make sure he uses the restroom often. But obviously I shouldn't have to do this for a grown man. Now, since he is drinking most often in secret because he knows it bothers me, he doesn't get "plastered" like he used to, and this doesn't happen. He knows just how much he can drink to "get away with it". I find this worse. The hiding it and lying hurts me more than having to wash the sheets. And he can't hide it, and is a bad liar. I always know.
Any tips or helpful quotes/readings to help me gather courage for the "talk" that needs to happen? I am so nervous and extremely sad when I think about doing it. I AM doing it though. No question. Sobriety. Period.
As far as Alanon goes... Again - nervous.
How much sharing do they ask of you during your first meetings? I am incredibly shy. An idea or example of someone's first experience would put my mind at ease a little.
Thank you again for ALL the love!!
Member
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Wareham, Mass
Posts: 7,067
Always, Al-Anon can be really, really helpful. You don't have to share anything if you don't want to. Group sharing formats vary: some have chairs in a circle, sharing begins with one person, then proceeds around the circle. People simply say "pass" or, "I'd like to listen today" when their turn comes if they are not up to sharing. Other groups raise hands to share, or wait until a person has finished speaking. You can expect someone to welcome you when you go, ask if you re new, and will likely offer literature. Many groups offer one-to-one counseling, so that you can ask questions that you might feel funny about asking in a group setting. Al-Anon isn't for everyone, but it would worth checking out. Good luck.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Chicago
Posts: 5,450
always, when you are talking to your fiance, you need to be very clear and realistic with yourself about what you are trying to accomplish here. It sounds a little like you are gearing up to give your fiance an ultimatum -- quit drinking, or forget about me and our future potential children.
Which, you know -- is fine, if that's where you stand, and you are prepared to end things if he chooses not to pursue recovery.
However, I suspect that the outcome you are really hoping for is that he will hear your ultimatum and it will make him decide to change, and that you won't really have to ask him to leave.
This kind of magical thinking can be very dangerous for you, and lead to a cycle of promises and disappointments that can go on for years.
I hear you say you are a natural caretaker. A lot of us codependents saw ourselves that way. I know I did. It felt noble to sacrifice myself for someone else's wellbeing. It felt like "the right thing to do." You know when they tell you on the airplane that you need to put your own oxygen mask on first before you can help someone else? That goes for a lot of things, including relationships. We have to save ourselves first or we're no good to anyone else.
Which, you know -- is fine, if that's where you stand, and you are prepared to end things if he chooses not to pursue recovery.
However, I suspect that the outcome you are really hoping for is that he will hear your ultimatum and it will make him decide to change, and that you won't really have to ask him to leave.
This kind of magical thinking can be very dangerous for you, and lead to a cycle of promises and disappointments that can go on for years.
I hear you say you are a natural caretaker. A lot of us codependents saw ourselves that way. I know I did. It felt noble to sacrifice myself for someone else's wellbeing. It felt like "the right thing to do." You know when they tell you on the airplane that you need to put your own oxygen mask on first before you can help someone else? That goes for a lot of things, including relationships. We have to save ourselves first or we're no good to anyone else.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 773
NO. RUN. NOW. I read your post, and seems that the only thing you are getting from this is him being your "best friend who makes you laugh". He is in complete denial, he is not in any shape to be in a relationship.
Case in point - when I married my XAH - he was sober handsome 35 years old (still handsome at 49 now even after his binges), working the steps since he was 20, finishing up his PhD. He flew across the ocean to see me, sent flowers, met with my family, made a great impression. He was mercurial and entitled, but that seemed insignificant back then. We really had a great time and laughed together, had so many things in common. And things were great in sex drive department - I will give him that.
He charmed all my friends and relatives. Very well spoken. Even my therapist said that he sounded lovely - to have a coffee with that is, not as a life partner.
12 years and 4 relapses later (that lasted 3-4 months) we are divorced. So - even if you start with recovering A - things can turn pretty sour....
I hope you don't take it a wrong way - but please examine the reasons why you are even considering marrying this guy or even "waiting" for him to get better. Wetting the bed plus no sex drive would be a deal breaker for me from get go. He sounds like a nightmare from alcoholic h@ll. If you have kids with him - it will be never ending nightmare of guessing if he is sober enough to drive them. RUN!
At the end of the day - if he is meant to get sober and you are meant to be together - it will happen. Nothing you can do about it though....
Hang in there and keep coming back
Case in point - when I married my XAH - he was sober handsome 35 years old (still handsome at 49 now even after his binges), working the steps since he was 20, finishing up his PhD. He flew across the ocean to see me, sent flowers, met with my family, made a great impression. He was mercurial and entitled, but that seemed insignificant back then. We really had a great time and laughed together, had so many things in common. And things were great in sex drive department - I will give him that.
He charmed all my friends and relatives. Very well spoken. Even my therapist said that he sounded lovely - to have a coffee with that is, not as a life partner.
12 years and 4 relapses later (that lasted 3-4 months) we are divorced. So - even if you start with recovering A - things can turn pretty sour....
I hope you don't take it a wrong way - but please examine the reasons why you are even considering marrying this guy or even "waiting" for him to get better. Wetting the bed plus no sex drive would be a deal breaker for me from get go. He sounds like a nightmare from alcoholic h@ll. If you have kids with him - it will be never ending nightmare of guessing if he is sober enough to drive them. RUN!
At the end of the day - if he is meant to get sober and you are meant to be together - it will happen. Nothing you can do about it though....
Hang in there and keep coming back
Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Manitoba, Canada
Posts: 168
You mentioned about being shy to attend your first Al-Anon meeting. I went to one but never went back (I was getting deep in addiction) but I've attended Nar-Anon as well as ACOA meetings online. Face to face IS best, but if you're like me and there's none if your area, it's the next best thing.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 293
From what I have seen kids don't change an addicts behavior. They are gods gift to us but they come with their own new set of stress/pressure on the family. My STBXAH and I have two amazing and beautiful children together and he couldn't shape up for them. Count your blessings for the following...your insight to see everything that is going on and to be questioning things, the fact you are not married and the fact that you don't have kids. You are SO smart to be looking into this and putting your foot down. I worked hard to get my ex to embrace recovery but the desire wasn't there...so I stopped and now I'm working on me and being there for my kids. I'm so sorry you are going through this. It's hard stuff.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 91
Alcoholism is a progressive disease which is to say it gets a lot worse before it gets better, if ever. If having children is the plan to get him sober, please find another plan quickly. I married an alcoholic and it was a disaster that keeps on giving. Praying for you.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 137
Recently I heard this: "choose your partner as if your future children had a vote" (strongly recommend freedomainradio/relationships - you can check it youtube).
This man is irresponsible addict and will drag you and your future children down. You wouldn't be here if you didn't have a feeling that he is not good husband / father material.
I'm saying this with a lot of compassion - I was with an addict/alcoholic with unresolved childhood issues (sounds pretty much like your boyfriend). I went through his proper relapse which you will most likely witness one day and I don't wish you or any children to ever witness such a craziness and scary Rollercoaster. I say this from my heart. Please, go to therapy, listen to that freedomain radio podcast and even call in there for free and try to analyze your past and your relationship. I don't think any child would wish to be born to any of that.
That he has “been like this as long as I’ve known him, so I knew what I was getting myself into”.
-heard this too. My ex put this in my face when I was facing eviction when the neighbours were scared of him because of his drunken antiques. It sure hurt to hear it later on when it's too late.
I have a good education and both of us have great job. Only after ending this relationship I realized how much work on must do on myself to find good man.
Take care
This man is irresponsible addict and will drag you and your future children down. You wouldn't be here if you didn't have a feeling that he is not good husband / father material.
I'm saying this with a lot of compassion - I was with an addict/alcoholic with unresolved childhood issues (sounds pretty much like your boyfriend). I went through his proper relapse which you will most likely witness one day and I don't wish you or any children to ever witness such a craziness and scary Rollercoaster. I say this from my heart. Please, go to therapy, listen to that freedomain radio podcast and even call in there for free and try to analyze your past and your relationship. I don't think any child would wish to be born to any of that.
That he has “been like this as long as I’ve known him, so I knew what I was getting myself into”.
-heard this too. My ex put this in my face when I was facing eviction when the neighbours were scared of him because of his drunken antiques. It sure hurt to hear it later on when it's too late.
I have a good education and both of us have great job. Only after ending this relationship I realized how much work on must do on myself to find good man.
Take care
Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,103
If love, marriage, children could benefit an alcoholic in denial of his disease, so many of us would not even be here. We'd be living that happily ever after life with our A's.
Rarely is there a happy ending with an active A. Instead there is an lonely and empty spouse, confused and controlling in an attempt to fit that round peg into the sought after happy ever after life.
Rarely is there a happy ending with an active A. Instead there is an lonely and empty spouse, confused and controlling in an attempt to fit that round peg into the sought after happy ever after life.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 3
Thank you all for your tips on Alanon and other referrals for help as I journey through this.
I am still gathering my thoughts as I prepare to talk to my fiance. Thank you all for the support and additional things to think about as I do this.
I definitely want to go into this level-headed, informed and prepared.
In all honesty, I do not "hope" for a positive outcome. Yes, of course I would be happy if my fiance was 100% on board and we continued into sobriety together, but my heart and head both tell me one of two things will happen. I will lay out an ultimatum and my fiance will get defensive and defer the conversation from being productive, therefore I will have to be strong and go forward with ending it. Maybe weeks or months later after not being together, he will realize the severity of his choices, and want to talk and get sober (on his own). OR he will agree to stop his drinking, but will not follow-through in the coming months, and I will have to be strong and go forward with in ending it (one more strike and you're out). I cannot see any situation beyond these two happening - and both end up with us not being together. It greatly saddens me, but I still feel like there is no other option.
Thank you all again for your continued thoughtfulness and prayers.
I am still gathering my thoughts as I prepare to talk to my fiance. Thank you all for the support and additional things to think about as I do this.
I definitely want to go into this level-headed, informed and prepared.
In all honesty, I do not "hope" for a positive outcome. Yes, of course I would be happy if my fiance was 100% on board and we continued into sobriety together, but my heart and head both tell me one of two things will happen. I will lay out an ultimatum and my fiance will get defensive and defer the conversation from being productive, therefore I will have to be strong and go forward with ending it. Maybe weeks or months later after not being together, he will realize the severity of his choices, and want to talk and get sober (on his own). OR he will agree to stop his drinking, but will not follow-through in the coming months, and I will have to be strong and go forward with in ending it (one more strike and you're out). I cannot see any situation beyond these two happening - and both end up with us not being together. It greatly saddens me, but I still feel like there is no other option.
Thank you all again for your continued thoughtfulness and prayers.
paradox
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 665
Lies, more lies and manipulation.
That was me as an active alcoholic.
The drinking gets worse.
The lies get worse.
My wife said we were through.
Somehow I knew she meant it.
I think it was the lies more than the drinking.
I went to AA and stopped drinking.
I learned to be honest.
It was more than a year into recovery when I thought of her tears as she said she was leaving.
Her feelings were obviously not very important to me at the time.
I wanted sobriety, so that I could figure out how to keep my marriage, my, children, my wife.
No matter what we say or do, untreated alcoholism can be a very selfish state of mind.
I thank God that I recovered, because I now care for her and the children very much.
And they know this without my needing to say it.
Actions speak louder than words.
So, why not end it now?
If it's the kick up the backside that he needs in order to find recovery for himself . . .
well, thank God for that.
If, on the other hand, it sends him into a downward spiral, he might have ended up down there anyway . . .
and you with him.
But, don't listen to my advice, Always.
I'm just a sober alky.
The folks at Al-Anon will have far better advice, based on experience, that will help you to make you own decision(s).
Letting go with love may be one of their suggestions.
It will be your choice.
I don't know and my opinion is unimportant.
Be that as it may, I think it is important to remember that actions speak louder than words . . .
his actions and yours.
That was me as an active alcoholic.
The drinking gets worse.
The lies get worse.
My wife said we were through.
Somehow I knew she meant it.
I think it was the lies more than the drinking.
I went to AA and stopped drinking.
I learned to be honest.
It was more than a year into recovery when I thought of her tears as she said she was leaving.
Her feelings were obviously not very important to me at the time.
I wanted sobriety, so that I could figure out how to keep my marriage, my, children, my wife.
No matter what we say or do, untreated alcoholism can be a very selfish state of mind.
I thank God that I recovered, because I now care for her and the children very much.
And they know this without my needing to say it.
Actions speak louder than words.
So, why not end it now?
If it's the kick up the backside that he needs in order to find recovery for himself . . .
well, thank God for that.
If, on the other hand, it sends him into a downward spiral, he might have ended up down there anyway . . .
and you with him.
But, don't listen to my advice, Always.
I'm just a sober alky.
The folks at Al-Anon will have far better advice, based on experience, that will help you to make you own decision(s).
Letting go with love may be one of their suggestions.
It will be your choice.
I don't know and my opinion is unimportant.
Be that as it may, I think it is important to remember that actions speak louder than words . . .
his actions and yours.
Reach Out and Touch Faith
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: On a Sailboat
Posts: 3,871
Originally Posted by alwayswaiting16 
I am completely new here (and to any other internet forum in general), but I feel like I’m constantly searching myself for answers, or for hope, and do not know where else to turn at this point. I do not feel I have anyone in my life that I can truly talk to about it that will understand. I have a few close friends and family that are aware of some of what’s going on… but I tend to hide most if it. I have been a shy person my whole life, and struggle with anxiety - and for the last few years, depression. This is already my second re-write… it is hard to accurately get the words out without writing a novel. So… I pre-apologize for the length.
Anxiety and depression come from or are exacerbated by being in a relationship with an alcoholic.
I am currently engaged to my best friend. We have known each other for 9 years, been together for 7 of those, lived together for over 5, and engaged for 1. He is the funniest person I have ever known, so smart, caring, and amazing with children. We have been trying to have our own for over 2 years now, sadly with no luck. We have talked about getting married for a long time, but were never in any rush. Both of us try to adhere to a “no set timeline for life” mentality. We are on the same page when it comes to having children, and how we would like to raise them. My fiance is also an alcoholic.
My fiance does not admit he is an alcoholic. He has admitted the following to me before:
That he is a “functioning addict“.
That he has “toned down” his drinking (and smoking cigarettes), and that comparatively is well in control of his habits.
That if he didn’t drink, his addictive personality would “need” something else.
That when he drinks, he feels like he is the “life of the party”.
That drinking helps his insomnia.
That he is financially irresponsible.
That he has “been like this as long as I’ve known him, so I knew what I was getting myself into”.
That of course he would quit drinking as much as he does once we have kids.
I first met him and began dating him when drinking was a big part of his job/lifestyle, as he worked in the music industry.
It never bothered me at first, and I too would drink (not often or heavily, but socially) - and it was fun! He was charming, affectionate, and I found him just as entertaining drunk as when he was sober. That began to change about 3 years into our relationship. It began to bother me so much that I cut back on my own drinking, avoided being around him when he drinking and/or avoided situations where he would end up drinking, and altogether stopped drinking in hopes of getting pregnant the last year or so.
He does not drink everyday (as far as I know).
He does not physically harm me. EVER. He has never emotionally abused me by calling me names, and rarely says hurtful things (apart from deflecting negative attention on himself when I start talking to him about his drinking).
and He does, however, do the following when he drinks:
Provoke arguments or debates with me, and does not let up until I concede to his opinion.
Repeat himself. A lot.
Get offended and upset when I attempt to end a argument, debate, or story that I’ve heard 10 times.
Talks about the “end of the world”.
Fall, hurt himself or break stuff accidentally.
Leave doors open, leave stove burners on, etc.
Wet himself or the bed.
Say inappropriate things, mumble, or debate with family or friends until I stop it out of embarrassment.
Has no sex drive. (A little hard to conceive a child with little/no sex).
Has money for alcohol and cigarettes, but is sometimes lacking when it comes to bills.
Has horrible credit, owes taxes, is financially irresponsible to the point where when we were in need of buying our first home last year, did not qualify to be on the mortgage, and I had to have another co-signor.
Drives. (Though he denies this).
Drives with me in the car. (Denied).
Lies about the fact that he has drunk alcohol (which is the only reason why the above happened).
Has missed family get-togethers, plans with friends, work, etc. - because he is hungover or still drunk from the night before. A lot.
Hides alcohol in his vehicle and in the garage.
Takes cash out of his bank account to pay for alcohol so there is no paper trail.
Provoke arguments or debates with me, and does not let up until I concede to his opinion.
Repeat himself. A lot.
Get offended and upset when I attempt to end a argument, debate, or story that I’ve heard 10 times.
Talks about the “end of the world”.
Fall, hurt himself or break stuff accidentally.
Leave doors open, leave stove burners on, etc.
Wet himself or the bed.
Say inappropriate things, mumble, or debate with family or friends until I stop it out of embarrassment.
Has no sex drive. (A little hard to conceive a child with little/no sex).
Has money for alcohol and cigarettes, but is sometimes lacking when it comes to bills.
Has horrible credit, owes taxes, is financially irresponsible to the point where when we were in need of buying our first home last year, did not qualify to be on the mortgage, and I had to have another co-signor.
Drives. (Though he denies this).
Drives with me in the car. (Denied).
Lies about the fact that he has drunk alcohol (which is the only reason why the above happened).
Has missed family get-togethers, plans with friends, work, etc. - because he is hungover or still drunk from the night before. A lot.
Hides alcohol in his vehicle and in the garage.
Takes cash out of his bank account to pay for alcohol so there is no paper trail.
I finally laid down the line I would not get in his vehicle until he has some good sober time behind him and that I can tell by his behavior changes. Saying he is not drinking isn't enough. Its the behaviors that let me know he's still drinking. Does it suck to have to take the bus 12 blocks to do my grocery shopping? Hell yes, but its better than the time he blew a tire in the parking lot and it took three blocks for him to know he was driving on a rim.
As much as he thinks he is entertaining and the “life of the party”, I see it in people’s faces that that is not always the case. And I do not view him like that at all anymore. I find him to be utterly irritating, and honestly dislike being around him when he’s drinking. Fine. Ok. Then don’t be around him, right? Wrong. Since leaving the music industry about 3 years ago, he continued drinking… just alone at home now. I have encouraged him to go out with friends, but he generally stays home unless we go out together. And I have literally asked him, that if he would like to continue to drink, to do it somewhere else, and not be around me while he does it. He has PLENTY of people in his life to do this with, including people that would let him stay the night when he cannot drive. He chooses to continue to drink at home. With me. Lie about it and/or say he is “working on drinking less”.
Again I see he's blaming you for things you didn't do. another thing that knocks down your self esteem.
How do I know he is lying? He is my best friend, I know him well enough to tell be the way he talks, walks, or even in his eyes when he has had more than a couple drinks. But when I ask him, he will lie. And I never accuse. I never yell. I ask. Politely.
And he lies.
If he lies about drinking. Could he be lying about other stuff? I literally feel like I’m going crazy. And not only that, but I have recently discovered that he “gas lights” me. Completely. I did not know this was a thing until I went online looking for answers. When we get in arguments, he gets super defensive. He turns the fight back on me. He asks me to repeat things I’ve said. Verbatim. He questions my integrity and invalidates my feelings when I cannot do so. He literally makes me questions myself and things I have said to the point where I doubt my own memory.
And he lies.
If he lies about drinking. Could he be lying about other stuff? I literally feel like I’m going crazy. And not only that, but I have recently discovered that he “gas lights” me. Completely. I did not know this was a thing until I went online looking for answers. When we get in arguments, he gets super defensive. He turns the fight back on me. He asks me to repeat things I’ve said. Verbatim. He questions my integrity and invalidates my feelings when I cannot do so. He literally makes me questions myself and things I have said to the point where I doubt my own memory.
Aside from feeling crazy, I feel a sadness inside of me like I cannot breathe. All I want is to become a mother. And I know that is one of the things that he loves about me. We both want children so bad.
He will not give up drinking for me. That has been proven. This has been a 4 year battle (for me, and who knows how long for him). He will not give up drinking for our potential children, even after 2 years of telling him that drinking and smoking are the FIRST things to cut out to up your fertility. I ask myself, “he must not want children as badly as he says, if he cannot change his habits to make it happen”. But the BIG question I ask myself is…
If he cannot change himself for me, or his potential children, why would I think that he could change it for our children once they are born?
He will not give up drinking for me. That has been proven. This has been a 4 year battle (for me, and who knows how long for him). He will not give up drinking for our potential children, even after 2 years of telling him that drinking and smoking are the FIRST things to cut out to up your fertility. I ask myself, “he must not want children as badly as he says, if he cannot change his habits to make it happen”. But the BIG question I ask myself is…
If he cannot change himself for me, or his potential children, why would I think that he could change it for our children once they are born?
Do I keep hoping and trying to help and support him in this disease? I do understand it is a disease, and that he does not choose this. I know for a fact that no one supports him more than me. And to top it all off, his father died tragically in a car accident one month after we were engaged last year. He is still a mess from it. Any time anyone asks about wedding plans, I usually say that we are still reeling from losing him… but in all honesty I don’t know if I’m setting myself for a life that I don’t want by planning a wedding/marriage with an alcoholic.
I don’t want a husband or father to my children that is unreliable.
I don’t want to have to look after a husband like he is a child - ready to stop him from falling, leaving doors open, or wetting the bed.
I do want a husband that gives a **** and is willing to try. Just try.
I am preparing myself to give an ultimatum. Attempt to get sober. Attend AA and/or therapy. Try.
Or I need to be done. Not want. Need. I love him SO much. And I do not want anything bad to happen to him. And I am SO scared that if I end it, something will. He has admitted to me that years before we were together, he had tried to commit suicide.
How do you leave someone, knowing that they will either drink more or hurt themselves?
Is it possible to end a relationship, but continue a supportive friendship to help them get sober? Or should you cut all ties?
How do you ask them to leave a home that is “ours” together?
From what I understand about alcoholism, ultimatums do not work. I am going into this with that in mind. I have also looked into going to Al-Anon, but have yet to get the courage to go.
This is my first step.
I don’t want a husband or father to my children that is unreliable.
I don’t want to have to look after a husband like he is a child - ready to stop him from falling, leaving doors open, or wetting the bed.
I do want a husband that gives a **** and is willing to try. Just try.
I am preparing myself to give an ultimatum. Attempt to get sober. Attend AA and/or therapy. Try.
Or I need to be done. Not want. Need. I love him SO much. And I do not want anything bad to happen to him. And I am SO scared that if I end it, something will. He has admitted to me that years before we were together, he had tried to commit suicide.
How do you leave someone, knowing that they will either drink more or hurt themselves?
Is it possible to end a relationship, but continue a supportive friendship to help them get sober? Or should you cut all ties?
How do you ask them to leave a home that is “ours” together?
From what I understand about alcoholism, ultimatums do not work. I am going into this with that in mind. I have also looked into going to Al-Anon, but have yet to get the courage to go.
This is my first step.
First, remember:
We didn’t cause it – it is not our fault that the other person drinks, it is their private battle
We can’t control it – we have no power over the other person's desire to drink
We can’t cure it – it is an illness that cannot be cured through any known medical remedies.
Here is but one place that offers online Al-Anon meetings: Online Al-Anon Group - Miracles In Progress
There is another program called SMART Recovery. The reason I bring it up is they have online meetings a couple times a week just for Family and friends of people who drink too much. it is bsed on thought and behavioral changes. I found both helped me in my recovery as they are completely different perspectives and SMART encourages meeting attendees to use whatever resources work for them, including the 12 steps. You can find more about their Family and friends program including a link to their online meetings here Family & Friends - An Alternative to Al-Anon and Intervention
I am now going to be a little harsh, having almost married a man in your man's position. It will only get worse. Threatening or giving ultimatums only lead to hiding the booze. He may even backfire & hasten his use. Also since the effects of alcohol decrease over time he will start drinking even more for the same effects he is getting now.
Start to prepare in case you decide to leave. You may never know if you decide to go so at worst you'll have money for a vacation, but honestly his chance of stopping is extremely low since he has clear goals (wanting children) which he needs to stop drinking for this to happen.
Start saving money which he isn't aware of. I simply put mine in a savings plan attached to my checking account at my credit union. Another option is to squirrel that money away and tell the bank you wish to go paperless for your statements. In my case, this way he wouldn't see a second bank statement and question me about it.
Do you have room under your bed? If so, slowly start to hide the family mementos, photos and your other important papers in boxes under there. Prepare as if you live in a fire zone and may need to grab your most important items and evacuate in fifteen minutes. because with his drinking you just might need to leave that quickly. Also, this way when you are ready to leave you don't nee to worry that you have all your important things.
In your closet start separating the clothes you most treasure and hang them closer to the open door so again, you can grab them. When you leave you won't have to worry if you have that horrible blue skirt Aunt Ida gave you that you hate but yet can't let go of it since it was the last gift to you before she passed away.
Good luck and feel free to send me a private message.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 193
I married and divorced and alcoholic - without realizing he was one.
We went through years of darkness and marital therapy when he blamed all his issues on the fact that we were childless. I went through multiple rounds of IVF and when we were finally expecting, I was ready for him to be elated and for everything to change!
Nothing changed, of course - and I know now that's because he was an alcoholic.
Now we are divorced. His disease has progressed, and I am facing the hell of trying to work with therapists and the courts to protect my two young children from him. He has gotten drunk while they are with him, he won't drive them to school or in one case to the ER when my son had an accident. When my daughter was just two, we caught her with her head in her hands and asked what was wrong - she said she was worried about Daddy.
He loves them fiercely and has been to treatment but has relapsed several times since then. I prefer to think of him as a good person who is facing a strong opponent. But now I'm facing that opponent too, in trying to protect my children, and it's sad and scary as hell.
It's amazing how quickly "not that bad" can spiral into "not tolerable." Protect yourself and your future children by taking action now.
We went through years of darkness and marital therapy when he blamed all his issues on the fact that we were childless. I went through multiple rounds of IVF and when we were finally expecting, I was ready for him to be elated and for everything to change!
Nothing changed, of course - and I know now that's because he was an alcoholic.
Now we are divorced. His disease has progressed, and I am facing the hell of trying to work with therapists and the courts to protect my two young children from him. He has gotten drunk while they are with him, he won't drive them to school or in one case to the ER when my son had an accident. When my daughter was just two, we caught her with her head in her hands and asked what was wrong - she said she was worried about Daddy.
He loves them fiercely and has been to treatment but has relapsed several times since then. I prefer to think of him as a good person who is facing a strong opponent. But now I'm facing that opponent too, in trying to protect my children, and it's sad and scary as hell.
It's amazing how quickly "not that bad" can spiral into "not tolerable." Protect yourself and your future children by taking action now.
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