Told AH what's going on...
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Told AH what's going on...
It didn’t happen when or how I expected.
We were just going about our business getting ready for bed, and AH said to me, (again) “You don't even love me anymore” I said: “Why do you keep questioning my love?”
and he replied something along the lines of I act like I don’t even like him anymore.
Opportunity knocked, even though I wasn't “ready” so I told him:
The reason I act like I don’t like you, is because I spend a lot of my time having to ignore you. I do not tolerate your drinking, or how you treat the kids and I. I have to remove myself from the situation, and it’s happening all.the.time.
then he says: “So, do you want me to move out?” and then gets into shower.
When he comes back out, he starts into a monologue about how we really need to take care of x, y and z. Totally not on topic, and I’m like….uhhh If you’d like to discuss what we were talking about in the bathroom, go ahead. These other issues are way down in priority level so let’s stop. We are 3 subjects away from the original issue at hand.
Anyways, I straight up told him that he needs help. He needs to see a professional. I am not telling him what to do and I don’t want him to do this because I said so. That I feel our dynamic is better when we are not husband and wife. When we have some distance between us we communicate better and there is no pressure on one another to be “perfect” . He digressed quite a bit, asking why I keep things bottled up for so long, and how he thought all was well because I never protested to his drinking yada yada… I told him I CANNOT BE YOUR COMPASS. I CANNOT WATCH YOU AND CORRECT YOU. I have been your wife, your therapist, your doctor, your dentist, your mom. I AM NOT being that person anymore. He kept saying he felt I wanted him to become someone he isn’t, like going to the gym and getting buff. I said I never expected you to get into that, that’s your own head telling you that. (I think he thought me saying "get healthy" meant joining my gym haha. I cleared that up for him, and meant mental health, healthy choices, etc.) He also, MULTIPLE times asked/accused me that there was “someone else” I told him NO. and that I was offended, because I straight up told him the problem, poured my heart out and THAT is all you think this is about? I think he has a hard time realizing that the problem is HIM, he thinks there HAS to be an outside source. DENIAL DENIAL
He wants to know how to fix it. If this “is it” , what he can do…
I told him we’d talk about it in a few days after what I told him sunk in. When he was sober. That I really felt we needed to part ways, as our dynamic always cycles back to this. I over explained. But oh well.
Anywho, he knows now. No I did not send him packing right there. Maybe I should have I dunno. There is love there, it’s just so effed up.
That is the update.
We were just going about our business getting ready for bed, and AH said to me, (again) “You don't even love me anymore” I said: “Why do you keep questioning my love?”
and he replied something along the lines of I act like I don’t even like him anymore.
Opportunity knocked, even though I wasn't “ready” so I told him:
The reason I act like I don’t like you, is because I spend a lot of my time having to ignore you. I do not tolerate your drinking, or how you treat the kids and I. I have to remove myself from the situation, and it’s happening all.the.time.
then he says: “So, do you want me to move out?” and then gets into shower.
When he comes back out, he starts into a monologue about how we really need to take care of x, y and z. Totally not on topic, and I’m like….uhhh If you’d like to discuss what we were talking about in the bathroom, go ahead. These other issues are way down in priority level so let’s stop. We are 3 subjects away from the original issue at hand.
Anyways, I straight up told him that he needs help. He needs to see a professional. I am not telling him what to do and I don’t want him to do this because I said so. That I feel our dynamic is better when we are not husband and wife. When we have some distance between us we communicate better and there is no pressure on one another to be “perfect” . He digressed quite a bit, asking why I keep things bottled up for so long, and how he thought all was well because I never protested to his drinking yada yada… I told him I CANNOT BE YOUR COMPASS. I CANNOT WATCH YOU AND CORRECT YOU. I have been your wife, your therapist, your doctor, your dentist, your mom. I AM NOT being that person anymore. He kept saying he felt I wanted him to become someone he isn’t, like going to the gym and getting buff. I said I never expected you to get into that, that’s your own head telling you that. (I think he thought me saying "get healthy" meant joining my gym haha. I cleared that up for him, and meant mental health, healthy choices, etc.) He also, MULTIPLE times asked/accused me that there was “someone else” I told him NO. and that I was offended, because I straight up told him the problem, poured my heart out and THAT is all you think this is about? I think he has a hard time realizing that the problem is HIM, he thinks there HAS to be an outside source. DENIAL DENIAL
He wants to know how to fix it. If this “is it” , what he can do…
I told him we’d talk about it in a few days after what I told him sunk in. When he was sober. That I really felt we needed to part ways, as our dynamic always cycles back to this. I over explained. But oh well.
Anywho, he knows now. No I did not send him packing right there. Maybe I should have I dunno. There is love there, it’s just so effed up.
That is the update.
Last edited by thousandwords53; 08-23-2016 at 10:37 AM. Reason: left out a sentence
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so he was under the influence for this conversation? if so, don't expect him to have perfect recall, or to remember things AS they happened. you were very brave to speak your peace, and i applaud you. just don't get too excited that anything actually STUCK or that he now sees the light.
also, please be very careful. a fuse has been lit.
also, please be very careful. a fuse has been lit.
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Originally Posted by AnvilheadII 
so he was under the influence for this conversation? if so, don't expect him to have perfect recall, or to remember things AS they happened. you were very brave to speak your peace, and i applaud you. just don't get too excited that anything actually STUCK or that he now sees the light.
also, please be very careful. a fuse has been lit.
also, please be very careful. a fuse has been lit.
And I am being cautious and will watch his fuse closely.
One good thing to come of this, is HE decided to cancel an upcoming trip to Vegas, because of the obvious bad reasons to go there. That trip was weighing heavy on my mind as I knew it contradicted my core values right now in this quest for sanity.
I just wish timing was better and now I have a feeling I've put us in a limbo of sorts.
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Has he expressed a desire to stop drinking and get help? Because unless an alcoholic wants sobriety for him/herself, it won't happen. I applaud your candor and courage in addressing the real issue.
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thousand words.....I, also, commend you on speaking your m ind to him.
And, I also agree that talking to a person who is intoxicated is a lot like spitting into the wind......
An active alcoholic still has the alcoholic thinking and the denial---even when they are technically "sober"......sigh.....
If it were just you and him....I would have stopped typing here.
but, the children are living this. They are the ones who are being damaged, more than you and your husband. You all are grown and can survive this...but they are delicate young organisms who are being formed, right now. These things will go with them into their own adulthoods, in one way or another......
You can't expect the one whose brain is messed up to make the best decisions about the effects of this on the kids. He doesn't even appreciate the effects that this has had on you or the marriage...how in the world do you expect him to appreciate the effects it has on the kids?
You are sober and you know what is going on...And, YOU KNOW YOUR OWN MIND. You don't have to be placed in "limbo" unless you want to be there.....
I wo nder if there isn't a small part of your mind that still hangs on to the hope that he will stop drinking...do a turnaround and be the kind of mate that you have idealized.......?
It wouldn't be unusual, if you do.....
Now, I am fully aware that y ou will think me very harsh, by these words. They ARE. they are totally stripped of any sugar coating....
I wish that there was a more gentle way to put it. But, I can't think of any, right now.....
It is o.k. to go ahead and hate me....not problem....I can handle it, under the circumstances.....lol.....
As long as you do the right thing by the children...it will all be o.k.
Very sincerely,
dandylion
And, I also agree that talking to a person who is intoxicated is a lot like spitting into the wind......
An active alcoholic still has the alcoholic thinking and the denial---even when they are technically "sober"......sigh.....
If it were just you and him....I would have stopped typing here.
but, the children are living this. They are the ones who are being damaged, more than you and your husband. You all are grown and can survive this...but they are delicate young organisms who are being formed, right now. These things will go with them into their own adulthoods, in one way or another......
You can't expect the one whose brain is messed up to make the best decisions about the effects of this on the kids. He doesn't even appreciate the effects that this has had on you or the marriage...how in the world do you expect him to appreciate the effects it has on the kids?
You are sober and you know what is going on...And, YOU KNOW YOUR OWN MIND. You don't have to be placed in "limbo" unless you want to be there.....
I wo nder if there isn't a small part of your mind that still hangs on to the hope that he will stop drinking...do a turnaround and be the kind of mate that you have idealized.......?
It wouldn't be unusual, if you do.....
Now, I am fully aware that y ou will think me very harsh, by these words. They ARE. they are totally stripped of any sugar coating....
I wish that there was a more gentle way to put it. But, I can't think of any, right now.....
It is o.k. to go ahead and hate me....not problem....I can handle it, under the circumstances.....lol.....
As long as you do the right thing by the children...it will all be o.k.
Very sincerely,
dandylion
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Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 773
Just wanted to offer support - hang in there, good for you, and dandylion above is speaking the truth.
One thing stood out as I read through - the reason why you behaved like you did not like him was because you did not accept his choices/avoided him. Very typical. I loved my AH , but I do believe I have been doing it for years, nagging first, then avoiding, to the point where quacking did not even bother me (AH was dry drunk most of the time, not necessarily drunk or sober). His lack of ambition, tendency to half - arse everything, and brittle annoyed disposition did our marriage in....he still behaves the same way (dry but alcoholic in behaviour)
I am yet to see glimpses of turnaround.
One thing stood out as I read through - the reason why you behaved like you did not like him was because you did not accept his choices/avoided him. Very typical. I loved my AH , but I do believe I have been doing it for years, nagging first, then avoiding, to the point where quacking did not even bother me (AH was dry drunk most of the time, not necessarily drunk or sober). His lack of ambition, tendency to half - arse everything, and brittle annoyed disposition did our marriage in....he still behaves the same way (dry but alcoholic in behaviour)
I am yet to see glimpses of turnaround.
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I can't tell you how many conversations I had with my Separated AH that went just like that... except ours usually deteriorated into him yelling and and me sobbing...
And then the next day it would be like the conversation never happened, and eventually we would just slip back into our old habits, until the next blow up.
Nothing changes if nothing changes .
Thinking of you
And then the next day it would be like the conversation never happened, and eventually we would just slip back into our old habits, until the next blow up.
Nothing changes if nothing changes .
Thinking of you
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Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 612
Originally Posted by dandylion
thousand words.....I, also, commend you on speaking your m ind to him.
And, I also agree that talking to a person who is intoxicated is a lot like spitting into the wind......
An active alcoholic still has the alcoholic thinking and the denial---even when they are technically "sober"......sigh.....
If it were just you and him....I would have stopped typing here.
but, the children are living this. They are the ones who are being damaged, more than you and your husband. You all are grown and can survive this...but they are delicate young organisms who are being formed, right now. These things will go with them into their own adulthoods, in one way or another......
You can't expect the one whose brain is messed up to make the best decisions about the effects of this on the kids. He doesn't even appreciate the effects that this has had on you or the marriage...how in the world do you expect him to appreciate the effects it has on the kids?
You are sober and you know what is going on...And, YOU KNOW YOUR OWN MIND. You don't have to be placed in "limbo" unless you want to be there.....
I wo nder if there isn't a small part of your mind that still hangs on to the hope that he will stop drinking...do a turnaround and be the kind of mate that you have idealized.......?
It wouldn't be unusual, if you do.....
Now, I am fully aware that y ou will think me very harsh, by these words. They ARE. they are totally stripped of any sugar coating....
I wish that there was a more gentle way to put it. But, I can't think of any, right now.....
It is o.k. to go ahead and hate me....not problem....I can handle it, under the circumstances.....lol.....
As long as you do the right thing by the children...it will all be o.k.
Very sincerely,
dandylion
And, I also agree that talking to a person who is intoxicated is a lot like spitting into the wind......
An active alcoholic still has the alcoholic thinking and the denial---even when they are technically "sober"......sigh.....
If it were just you and him....I would have stopped typing here.
but, the children are living this. They are the ones who are being damaged, more than you and your husband. You all are grown and can survive this...but they are delicate young organisms who are being formed, right now. These things will go with them into their own adulthoods, in one way or another......
You can't expect the one whose brain is messed up to make the best decisions about the effects of this on the kids. He doesn't even appreciate the effects that this has had on you or the marriage...how in the world do you expect him to appreciate the effects it has on the kids?
You are sober and you know what is going on...And, YOU KNOW YOUR OWN MIND. You don't have to be placed in "limbo" unless you want to be there.....
I wo nder if there isn't a small part of your mind that still hangs on to the hope that he will stop drinking...do a turnaround and be the kind of mate that you have idealized.......?
It wouldn't be unusual, if you do.....
Now, I am fully aware that y ou will think me very harsh, by these words. They ARE. they are totally stripped of any sugar coating....
I wish that there was a more gentle way to put it. But, I can't think of any, right now.....
It is o.k. to go ahead and hate me....not problem....I can handle it, under the circumstances.....lol.....
As long as you do the right thing by the children...it will all be o.k.
Very sincerely,
dandylion
Dandy, you especially are always very kind in your firmness. You don't make me hate you at all. lol. I need this forum just like the rest of us here. I know he doesn't fully understand what he needs to do. I am trying to do this right for my kids so we can end this cycle, at least within our little family unit.
And thank you guys for the positive affirmation that I did this right by explaining the situation/myself. I was doubting if that was what I needed to do. I always doubt myself .
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You know, the timing will never be "better". There will always be a reason for the timing to be poor. You saw an opening and took it, which, to me, screams that you are readier than you think to make lasting changes. And your report of his response equally screams that he is not. Be careful, this can be a tricky time with those who are as abusive and controlling as you report. Make sure you are making your safety and the kids' safety a priority.
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th ousandwords....try to stop doubting yourself (easy to say, isn't it?).
I think that you are right on....much more than your think!
I have a feeling that you have a lots of smarts, caring and toughness, inside of you.
It is just that you are held back by certain fears within the marriage....the FOG....Fear.....Obligation.....and/or Guilt.......
I don't think that you got this far in life by not having a lot of admirable qualities!
fear is normal when going into the unknown, of course. The most amazing thing about courage...is you never know it is there until you have not other option...and, then, like magic--it shows up just at t he second I t is needed!!
Lol...yes, I have pushed you like a mule trainer.....because I have a gut sense that you can take it (and it is what you need, right now).....
If you asked people to describe me in a couple of words...they would probably say "nice"..."sweet"......lol.....(blush).....
However, there are time that I have just had to be as tough as a hicory stick...and just walk into m y fear.....or else, I wouldn't even be standing, today.....
Honestly, I doubt that you will get through to him...his denial won't allow him to "hear" it or "know" it....
It is all a part of how the disease works. Denial can be so powerful.....
Just keep on your course and continue to learn as much as you can...
knowledge is power.....and self knowledge is priceless!
dandylion
I think that you are right on....much more than your think!
I have a feeling that you have a lots of smarts, caring and toughness, inside of you.
It is just that you are held back by certain fears within the marriage....the FOG....Fear.....Obligation.....and/or Guilt.......
I don't think that you got this far in life by not having a lot of admirable qualities!
fear is normal when going into the unknown, of course. The most amazing thing about courage...is you never know it is there until you have not other option...and, then, like magic--it shows up just at t he second I t is needed!!
Lol...yes, I have pushed you like a mule trainer.....because I have a gut sense that you can take it (and it is what you need, right now).....
If you asked people to describe me in a couple of words...they would probably say "nice"..."sweet"......lol.....(blush).....
However, there are time that I have just had to be as tough as a hicory stick...and just walk into m y fear.....or else, I wouldn't even be standing, today.....
Honestly, I doubt that you will get through to him...his denial won't allow him to "hear" it or "know" it....
It is all a part of how the disease works. Denial can be so powerful.....
Just keep on your course and continue to learn as much as you can...
knowledge is power.....and self knowledge is priceless!
dandylion
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Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if he stews about this and next time he gets really drunk, all that abusiveness may come out.
Even though you are working on a longer-term plan, I'd work on having a short-term plan if necessary. Get all your stuff organized so if you have to leave on short notice, you can.
Even though you are working on a longer-term plan, I'd work on having a short-term plan if necessary. Get all your stuff organized so if you have to leave on short notice, you can.
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Originally Posted by Nata1980
Just wanted to offer support - hang in there, good for you, and dandylion above is speaking the truth.
His lack of ambition, tendency to half - arse everything, and brittle annoyed disposition did our marriage in....he still behaves the same way (dry but alcoholic in behaviour)
I am yet to see glimpses of turnaround.
His lack of ambition, tendency to half - arse everything, and brittle annoyed disposition did our marriage in....he still behaves the same way (dry but alcoholic in behaviour)
I am yet to see glimpses of turnaround.
TW - I feel your pain. I am a step or two beyond you, where I realize this cycle is never going to end. I found some threads I started (under a different u/n) in 2011. Guess what has NOT changed? I'll let you in on a secret, nothing.has.changed.
Not one single thing. 5 years of the same 'ol, same 'ol. And I think to myself, I could have got out when my boy was 18 months. Instead, I have subjected him to 5 more years of crap.
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Letitend,
I so SO feel ya right now. That is my main fear, that we end up just in this same spot a year from now. I Want us to part while we can still be friends and amicable co-parents to some extent.
Nothing has changed here either, because nothing has changed. :/
hugs
I so SO feel ya right now. That is my main fear, that we end up just in this same spot a year from now. I Want us to part while we can still be friends and amicable co-parents to some extent.
Nothing has changed here either, because nothing has changed. :/
hugs
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Join Date: Aug 2016
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Friend, if you are hoping to co parebt with an A, you will be let down. Why would you expect things to be amicable after his treatment of you and the kid (s)?! I just want to let you know that I support you, 100%, and have been in your shoes and had the EXACT conversation you did and heard the EXACT same ******** excuses. Please be safe and get your seatbelt on....
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Originally Posted by thephoenixrises
Friend, if you are hoping to co parebt with an A, you will be let down. Why would you expect things to be amicable after his treatment of you and the kid (s)?! I just want to let you know that I support you, 100%, and have been in your shoes and had the EXACT conversation you did and heard the EXACT same ******** excuses. Please be safe and get your seatbelt on....
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ThePhoenixRises and CoParenttoA,
My eternal optimism gets to me sometimes. I should say, try and salvage any coparenting relationship while it's "good". Live life to the fullest with a little bit of distance from him. When we were separated before, he did step up to the plate in many ways. He did not prepare himself for the long-term, so that is why I'm in this position again.
I am fighting, but trying to fight fair, even though he may not do the same.
ay ay ay. Thanks again for everyone's support
My eternal optimism gets to me sometimes. I should say, try and salvage any coparenting relationship while it's "good". Live life to the fullest with a little bit of distance from him. When we were separated before, he did step up to the plate in many ways. He did not prepare himself for the long-term, so that is why I'm in this position again.
I am fighting, but trying to fight fair, even though he may not do the same.
ay ay ay. Thanks again for everyone's support
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TW-I think you may find the only reason he stepped up before was that it was a tactic to get you back. Once my A realized I was gone and never going back, he lost all interest in anything but himself and only alienated himself further bc if his horrible actions and unwillingness to seek long term recovery-his "stepping up" and playing the role of wonderful interested dad was just that-an act to manipulate me. I do fully understand doing the right thing bc you have to look yourself in the mirror/I did the same. But you do have to fully realize that there is no fair fighting with people like them-they'll throw you, and their own children, to the wolves..,.you fight to protect your kids, however you need to accomplish that.
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Originally Posted by thousandwords53
ThePhoenixRises and CoParenttoA,
My eternal optimism gets to me sometimes. I should say, try and salvage any coparenting relationship while it's "good". Live life to the fullest with a little bit of distance from him. When we were separated before, he did step up to the plate in many ways. He did not prepare himself for the long-term, so that is why I'm in this position again.
I am fighting, but trying to fight fair, even though he may not do the same.
ay ay ay. Thanks again for everyone's support
My eternal optimism gets to me sometimes. I should say, try and salvage any coparenting relationship while it's "good". Live life to the fullest with a little bit of distance from him. When we were separated before, he did step up to the plate in many ways. He did not prepare himself for the long-term, so that is why I'm in this position again.
I am fighting, but trying to fight fair, even though he may not do the same.
ay ay ay. Thanks again for everyone's support
During that time, he still very much had the dry drunk behaviors... and I was still so angry and resentful about all that had happened when he was drinking that was unresolved in my mind...
It wasn't great, but there were good times, and at least it wasn't AS BAD as it was when he was drinking.
I thought, for now, it's better to have him here for the kids, than not have him here, if things are at least more good than bad... even though I knew things were eventually going to go to **** again, and they did.
I spent a lot of time kicking myself for letting him come back so quickly that time, and I wonder all the time how all of this is going to affect my kids in the long run, and sometimes I still hate myself for it... but, ya know, we do the best we can in some really spectacularly sucky situations. We make the best decisions we can at the time, and we learn as we go.
You know what you need to do, and you will get there, one step at a time.
Big hugs!!
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