AA meeting and supervised visitation.
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AA meeting and supervised visitation.
So, I hauled DS to grandmas for supervised visit (AXHB lives with his brother and his wife, with their mother next door)
I had plans to go hang out with friends during the day on both Saturday and Sunday, which AXHB was informed about. I was coming back to grandmas overnight - don't trust them for overnight stays yet.
So, two problems occurred yesterday - first, I called grandmas house and apparently, woken her up from a nap, and she could not tell me where ex and son were (it is a very rural area with no cell reception so I could not call him directly), I called his brother several times, he did not know where ex and son were either.
So I got back to grandmas - they "went for a hike" and ex was ranting at me as to how dare I was to call and bother his family as they are so "busy". I kept my cool and said that true, they don't have to supervise, but if they don't know how/can't supervise - it is up to him to arrange for adequate supervision, or no visits will occur. He ranted and raved but I just detached and he agreed to everything.
So then he says "I cannot spend time with DS tomorrow - I am going to AA meeting". I said that in the future he needs to let me know because I hauled myself and son all the way here and he is changing plans on us, which frustrates me and son. He quipped that I don't care about his recovery. He goes to meeting twice a week and could easily move this meeting to another day, but he states that his "sponsor is too busy".
Bottom line - I feel like I am running around arranging things - AGAIN - while he is complaining that this is not convenient and that is not fair. He is whining about having to submit to drug test the same day - he is "busy" with teaching classes at uni once a week and sporadic lawn mowing jobs on his own schedule, while I work 8 to 5:30, have a full custody of our son, and haul him to grandmas. He claims I only bring him because I want to hang out with my friends and cannot handle my son on my own. We come ONCE a month. When he does spend time with son and I call to check in - he keeps asking when I am coming back as he is "exhausted".
I am tempted really to stop arranging anything and let him figure it out - but my son loves him and he will be hurt if he does not see dad.
Any advice appreciated
I had plans to go hang out with friends during the day on both Saturday and Sunday, which AXHB was informed about. I was coming back to grandmas overnight - don't trust them for overnight stays yet.
So, two problems occurred yesterday - first, I called grandmas house and apparently, woken her up from a nap, and she could not tell me where ex and son were (it is a very rural area with no cell reception so I could not call him directly), I called his brother several times, he did not know where ex and son were either.
So I got back to grandmas - they "went for a hike" and ex was ranting at me as to how dare I was to call and bother his family as they are so "busy". I kept my cool and said that true, they don't have to supervise, but if they don't know how/can't supervise - it is up to him to arrange for adequate supervision, or no visits will occur. He ranted and raved but I just detached and he agreed to everything.
So then he says "I cannot spend time with DS tomorrow - I am going to AA meeting". I said that in the future he needs to let me know because I hauled myself and son all the way here and he is changing plans on us, which frustrates me and son. He quipped that I don't care about his recovery. He goes to meeting twice a week and could easily move this meeting to another day, but he states that his "sponsor is too busy".
Bottom line - I feel like I am running around arranging things - AGAIN - while he is complaining that this is not convenient and that is not fair. He is whining about having to submit to drug test the same day - he is "busy" with teaching classes at uni once a week and sporadic lawn mowing jobs on his own schedule, while I work 8 to 5:30, have a full custody of our son, and haul him to grandmas. He claims I only bring him because I want to hang out with my friends and cannot handle my son on my own. We come ONCE a month. When he does spend time with son and I call to check in - he keeps asking when I am coming back as he is "exhausted".
I am tempted really to stop arranging anything and let him figure it out - but my son loves him and he will be hurt if he does not see dad.
Any advice appreciated
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Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: USA
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Tbh I think you AND your son need a "new normal" that does NOT include the sperm donor who is too busy and too exhausted to see his sperm offspring ONCE A MONTH. Disgusting. That, to me, is more damaging to your son than moving into a new normal with hopefully a more positive male role model in the future.
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Join Date: Apr 2016
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What does it say in your parenting plan with courts? Do you have to bring him to see dad once a month? Why can't he make the arrangements and come to you or a neutral place? I understand you are probably willing to do whatever it takes so your son is happy, but if dad is going to keep disappointing him that may affect him more. My AH doesn't always show up on his scheduled days so I've learned not to even tell my 3 year old when he's coming until I see him literally walking up to the door.
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Yeah, sounds to me like some refining of the parenting plan might be in order. It could say something to the effect that if he cannot have his supervised visitation on a particular weekend it is forfeited until the next scheduled visit. Otherwise YOU cannot reasonably make plans for your own life.
I would also specify that he is not to take the child on outings alone--that ALL time will be supervised. IOW, close any possible loopholes you can think of that he might exploit.
And if he screws up, it's too bad for your son, but you have the supervised visitation in place for a reason, and it's not helping your son to allow him to make end-runs around it.
I would also specify that he is not to take the child on outings alone--that ALL time will be supervised. IOW, close any possible loopholes you can think of that he might exploit.
And if he screws up, it's too bad for your son, but you have the supervised visitation in place for a reason, and it's not helping your son to allow him to make end-runs around it.
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Join Date: Apr 2013
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Sounds like you are truly giving it your best.
The AA Big Book says not to neglect our family.
I attend AA often and his, "I need a meeting" shows he's self centered.
I'm sure that comes as no surprise.
As my grandmother used to say,
I wouldn't give him an inch because he will want to take a mile.
Things should smooth out later if he stays sober and works a healthy Program.
Key word there -- if.
M-Bob
The AA Big Book says not to neglect our family.
I attend AA often and his, "I need a meeting" shows he's self centered.
I'm sure that comes as no surprise.
As my grandmother used to say,
I wouldn't give him an inch because he will want to take a mile.
Things should smooth out later if he stays sober and works a healthy Program.
Key word there -- if.
M-Bob
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Join Date: Jun 2016
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MountainBob - this is exactly what I said to my friend who, frustrated over change in plans, said "maybe it was ok to leave them w/o supervision
Agree on selfish part - he said "I am doing things differently this time" implying that I somehow prevented him from going to AA. Has never done that. He has gone to his meetings on sons b-day in the past (skipped his party) or on days where I had business travel - had to hire sitter. He always has to go to particular meetings, refuses to go to other meetings, and has been always very rigid and inflexible about that. He only works once or twice a week and can always go during the day. I don't understand how skipping/rescheduling a meeting in lieu of time with your child once a month jeopardizes recovery.
As for parenting plan - it says "supervised visitation as mother sees fit" - so ball is most certainly in my court. If I don't feel like he is following the rules, I can just refuse visitation.
I am not at that point yet.
What I don't understand is that before relapse, he spend more time with DS than I did - took him everywhere, did school drop-offs and pick-ups and claimed that DS was "his life". I work full time and his work was always very part-time. And now he is seemingly disengaged....Maybe he only was a good father in exchange for food and housing and expensive cigars I used to buy him. So confused...
We just left grandmas - I told him that he is to make all arrangements, and provide a "schedule" of whi supervises and when and where the go during visits. He nodded. We will see what actually happens
It would be nice if things did smooth over once he has more recovery under his belt. Or not - I am not holding my breath and base my happiness on it.
Agree on selfish part - he said "I am doing things differently this time" implying that I somehow prevented him from going to AA. Has never done that. He has gone to his meetings on sons b-day in the past (skipped his party) or on days where I had business travel - had to hire sitter. He always has to go to particular meetings, refuses to go to other meetings, and has been always very rigid and inflexible about that. He only works once or twice a week and can always go during the day. I don't understand how skipping/rescheduling a meeting in lieu of time with your child once a month jeopardizes recovery.
As for parenting plan - it says "supervised visitation as mother sees fit" - so ball is most certainly in my court. If I don't feel like he is following the rules, I can just refuse visitation.
I am not at that point yet.
What I don't understand is that before relapse, he spend more time with DS than I did - took him everywhere, did school drop-offs and pick-ups and claimed that DS was "his life". I work full time and his work was always very part-time. And now he is seemingly disengaged....Maybe he only was a good father in exchange for food and housing and expensive cigars I used to buy him. So confused...
We just left grandmas - I told him that he is to make all arrangements, and provide a "schedule" of whi supervises and when and where the go during visits. He nodded. We will see what actually happens
It would be nice if things did smooth over once he has more recovery under his belt. Or not - I am not holding my breath and base my happiness on it.
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Well, it's POSSIBLE that he really is gun-shy about missing any meetings after his relapse. That wouldn't be unusual. But then it's HIS responsibility to have someone responsible take care of them while he's at the meeting. A meeting is a couple of hours at the most. Part of his sobriety is learning to balance these various obligations. With responsibility for a child, that needs to come first. If he truly CAN'T find anyone else to care for them, he needs to figure out something else.
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His actions don't sound like he's sober or even attending AA meetings for that matter. He seems to be dodging all of his responsibilities i.e HIS CHILD to attend meetings. It just doesn't sound like recovery to me. Just my two cents.
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A few who enter sobriety will get their priorities in order fairly soon.
Others will take much time to figure it all out.
And then I know others with 20 years sober that still have not a clue.
Truly booze has had a great effect on mind, body and soul of the alcoholic.
To be fully recovered is close to a miracle.
That's where the Higher Power comes in.
These ones in AA can also be greatly challenged as they seek God.
Let's face it, the devil wants to lose not one.
Mountainmanbob
Others will take much time to figure it all out.
And then I know others with 20 years sober that still have not a clue.
Truly booze has had a great effect on mind, body and soul of the alcoholic.
To be fully recovered is close to a miracle.
That's where the Higher Power comes in.
These ones in AA can also be greatly challenged as they seek God.
Let's face it, the devil wants to lose not one.
Mountainmanbob
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Originally Posted by Sunshine1234 
His actions don't sound like he's sober or even attending AA meetings for that matter. He seems to be dodging all of his responsibilities i.e HIS CHILD to attend meetings. It just doesn't sound like recovery to me. Just my two cents.
One of his suggestions was for him to visit son in my house (since he cannot afford a supervisor and his family won't drive over with him), I am saying no because I really don't want to hang out with him on a weekend in my house as a "visit supervisor". Sort of defeats the purpose.
I feel like he is punishing me for divorcing me through our son. And it pains me a great deal (not the "punishment", but use of our child as a bargaining chip. Typical narcissistic BS.
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Update: after several calls, stating that there is no other way for him to see his son other than him coming over to my house and all of us hanging out together (and me not budging), he arranged supervision for a weekend of Labor Day.
I am requesting "itinerary" with who will be supervising at what times, and their activities.
Sticking to my guns appears to have payoffs - we shall see what will transpire. But he is super polite now.
I am requesting "itinerary" with who will be supervising at what times, and their activities.
Sticking to my guns appears to have payoffs - we shall see what will transpire. But he is super polite now.
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It is written as "mother is willing to provide supervised visitation as she sees fit to maintain parent-child relationship, husband is responsible for providing supervision mother is comfortable with". So really - I don't owe anyone anything
We can take to mediation one year from now, where he would have to prove change in circumstance
We can take to mediation one year from now, where he would have to prove change in circumstance
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Originally Posted by Sunshine1234
That's great! I will be requesting the same. Good for you for sticking to your guns! Your son is lucky to have you!😊
I have no risk tolerance when it comes to him.
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Update - things are improving.
My sticking to my guns appears to be working. So we had our next visit - everything went great. Itinerary was written and followed to a T, check ins were on time, child support check was collected, meeting rescheduled and full attention given to DS12, he even took us out for a breakfast at a local cafe and paid for it. Oh, and get this - bought me a birthday present. I don't think I have seen a birthday present in years. So far he appears to be a better ex husband than actual husband. I have not decided whether it is a true glimpses of recovery or some kind of manipulation, but I am hopeful
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Hey, don't knock the benefits of having an awesome ex-husband. Mine is one of my very best friends, and a great dad. Sober for 36 years. I didn't want to be married to him, but very grateful he's still in my life.
Never know, he just might get well after all.
Never know, he just might get well after all.
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Great update! Glad it's going well and drama- free. I've followed your story as it mirrors mine in many ways. And funny - my stbxah has been acting pretty good too over the past week! He signed the divorce papers and now that the stress of worrying about that is done,I am able to breathe a little easier and actually don't mind hanging with him. Maybe it has to do with letting go of the expectations that being married brings.
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LexieCat - I'd rather have a great ex husband than a crappy husband.
Pnd - glad it is working out on your side. Funny you mention expectations, XAH stated this weekend - "look how well we get along, must be you not having any expectations, this is how it it should be". Nope dude, the reason where we are is that you managed to lower my expectations to a point of no return. He is still early in his recovery lol.
XAH is overdoing it a little bit with attempts to Skype/call me today....left a message, talking about him going through pictures and old cards in a basement (eye roll).
I had enough of him for one weekend - so I am going to "slow walk" communication and switch back to e-mail. Still not ready for the whole "being friends and chat every night". Boundaries, boundaries....
It is a bit fascinating watching his behaviour these days - I almost feel like some sort of scientist, observing, taking note, not getting close
Pnd - glad it is working out on your side. Funny you mention expectations, XAH stated this weekend - "look how well we get along, must be you not having any expectations, this is how it it should be". Nope dude, the reason where we are is that you managed to lower my expectations to a point of no return. He is still early in his recovery lol.
XAH is overdoing it a little bit with attempts to Skype/call me today....left a message, talking about him going through pictures and old cards in a basement (eye roll).
I had enough of him for one weekend - so I am going to "slow walk" communication and switch back to e-mail. Still not ready for the whole "being friends and chat every night". Boundaries, boundaries....
It is a bit fascinating watching his behaviour these days - I almost feel like some sort of scientist, observing, taking note, not getting close
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If he's in a very rural area and his mother and brother aren't able to look after him for an hour or two while he goes to a meeting, it may be a good idea to check when his meeting are so you can avoid those times. Some rural places might only have one or two a week he can get to practically, which might explain him getting all stressed about missing one. The meeting benefit everyone long term, BUT there's also a distinct possibility that he's just making excuses. Anyone can check the meeting schedule online so a quick Google would tell you if he's being genuine about that meeting or it he was just quacking.
Is there a reason that his mum wouldn't be able to look after your son for a couple of hours?
I hope he IS working the program, gets a sponsor and does his step work thoroughly. That's when things could start improving.
Is there a reason that his mum wouldn't be able to look after your son for a couple of hours?
I hope he IS working the program, gets a sponsor and does his step work thoroughly. That's when things could start improving.
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