vaya

AS was supposed to go to girlfriends house while I was away, but didn't. Said they got into a fight and it didn't work out. I couldn't work out all details before I left, despite your advice. First week or so was pretty good. Then he got his GR money & slipped right back into using heavily. There was some drama at house, but not enough to cause manager to say or know anything. Yes, I'm stupid and naive, still believing it would all work out.
Now I'm back. AS had agreed to leave if he didn't comply with requirements of staying here. Apparently he didn't stay with methadone clinic, which was his primary reason for staying here. Continued using. (I came back to several needles around and cleaning blood spurts off bathroom walls.) Dipped into and took emergency money I left, but I don't see what was emergency. Didn't go to meetings. Limited or no follow up on his housing. Not sure if he followed up with Dept of Mental health.
The only thing he did, somewhat, is look for a few jobs.
His birthday passed while I was away, about 4 days ago.

He denies everything. His brother said the house was a mess when he was left here. 1st week was ok, but it went steadily downhill.

Now, he has to go, but I'm wondering if a week is too much time to give him to go. I am off today and could take him to DPSS to get emergency hotel, or wait a few days or give him until Friday to leave.

So, what it the groups opinion/views on this?

Ilovemysonjj

Dear Vaya, my heart rate was going up reading this post. It brings back the terror and helplessness I felt when I KNEW JJ was using right under my nose in my HOME. I wanted him gone, didn't know how to do it. It came down to never letting him back home after I dropped him at detox. I would ask your son to leave today. There is no reason you should feel that what you are experiencing is "normal". It is not "normal" for blood spurts on the walls and needles.

hopepraylove

Vaya, I'm sorry and sad to read your post and the outcome of him staying at your place. My suggestion would be to take him today. The only thing we have control over is ourself, maintain (reclaim) your sanity and do what is best for you. Hugs.

Ann

Vaya, I am sorry it turned out so badly for you and for him but yes, I would have him leave immediately. There is no reason for him to stay. He can reach out and get help from detox or a hotel or a shelter...help is out there for him when he is ready to reach for it.

Your home should be your safe place, your place of peace. Take back your life Vaya, your son isn't going to change any time soon while staying at your home.

My heart hurts for you because I have been there with my own son.

Hugs

AnvilheadII

give him 5 minutes.......

i really feel for your OTHER son - he has done NOTHING wrong and yet he still has to put up with the destruction his brother causes. i can't imagine what that is doing inside his head.........

hopeful4

Out. Now.

Needles all over your house and blood on the walls? Your line in the sand where normal should be has been pushed past the limits. Your other son has to live under these conditions Vaya, as do you. He has used up every single opportunity you have given him, plus a million more. He sees you as the bail out.

The reality is, he is in a spiral that only he can decide if he wants out of. You cannot do it for him, no matter how much you want to my friend.

I am so very sorry Vaya. I would get him out, immediately.

vaya

So glad I got some responses readily. I spoke to him about the fact that he hasn't complied with the requirements of being here. He stormed out. Then I saw my manager watching him walk off and got more worried. He came back in and I told him the manager had asked about him and it was best if he left. Before I could explain further he left yelling and screaming and texting me he would kill him and hurt him!
I explained manager just asked, but that it had been quite a while now and I didn't want to jeopardize my home, especially after the yelling now.

I finally got him to agree to go to dpss for emergency housing. Basically had to bribe him and told him I'd give him some money. I'm supposed to meet him shortly and take him there.

After his latest fit and outburst I feel certain as to what I need to do.

His housing won't be ready for a little bit more, but he will have to figure out what to do. He can choose to stay in the hotel and do drugs all day or get it together.
I'm worried and disappointed. Was trying to help him keep it together until the 24th of the month, when he has to appear in court. That's only 9 days away. maybe that will be some motivation for him to get it together.

I was willing to let him stay out the week, but after his outburst I don't think it's safe to have him here.
He says he doesn't want to be here anyway.
I know it will get much worse before it gets better for him. But I have to think of self preservation more than worry about him.

hopeful4

Honey, I would not give him anymore money. If he is making threats maybe the police need to be involved. I know you don't want to hear that, but at this point, he is making threats and has acted in a very unsafe manner before. Please stay safe.

AnvilheadII

it was NEVER safe to have him there.
after screaming and raging at you, threatening to kill the manager, you turn right around and offer MORE enabling help...

WHY? just let him GO. NOTHING you have done so far has helped, VAYA. not one thing. he is exactly who he is.....and you can't leave your fingers off his life for two seconds.........

let him go. DO NOT GIVE HIM ANY MORE MONEY. seriously.....

vaya

Well I did offer the money somewhat to get him out. I prob still will even tho I know I shouldn't.then he'll leave me alone even if in have to buy that peace for now.

Ilovemysonjj

Vaya, he is nowhere near any kind of bottom and you are training him with your actions that there are no consequences to his choices. I know it hurts, but Anvil hit the nail on the head. You HAVE to get out of his way and stop enabling.

AnvilheadII

vaya, you know what he is going to do with that money right?
USE DOPE. you just helped another needle go into his arm.....

please, please think about YOUR actions. you are continuing to fund his addiction. and he will not leave you alone.

you don't BUY that.

you enforce boundaries and learn to say NO.

vaya

DPSS didn't pan out with hotel. I told him he is running out of options. Staying here and using wont' work. I am willing to pay for a sober living and he can either make it work or figure it out from there. Otherwise the only choice left is shelters. it is hard for me, depsite the drugs, to do this, because he is so depressed. But he won't get help for that either or doesn't like what they prescribe. I know I have to do this. For today and tonight, he has to stay away until night time and then he can sleep here. Tomorrow I will confirm sober living.
I can't believe how caught up I am in his disease! You are right about my concept of normal now. But he will have to go. He had every opportunity to be here and not use and look for work, but said he was too traumatized and depressed at first. Well, he has to sh#$ or get off the pot. Either go get mental health treatment, get sober, or figure it out. Or rehab. There are free programs where you don't have to wait. Some you don't even have to be sober to be in.
Unfortunately, depsite the reality that he is running out of options here, I am not hearing him say he wants to get sober or will do anything to stay here. I guess that's good. maybe he realizes I'm not caving as easily.
Just couldn't put him in the street tonight. Call me crazy. I know he won't do anything to anyone. It breaks my heart but I have given him so many chances and help of all kinds. Maybe I have to say this again and again so I get it. I have gotten so accustomed to his using that I am even kind of numb and dumb about it. it was good to hear others give me a perspective on my situation.
I will have to stay strong and follow through. This clearly isn't working this way and he is not getting any better because of it.

dandylion

vaya.....many a person has slept under a bridge or in the woods before getting sober/clean.
You are attempting to accomplish something that you are not equipped to do.
No adult child gets sober/clean while living in the parental home.....
Others are able to help him more than you ever can.
I truly do realize h ow HARD this is on mothers!!!!
This was never in the owners handbook when we gave birth.....

I think that mother's guilt is your biggest burden (it always is)......
Please try as hard as you can to not feel so guilty for doing what is the right thing......
You MUST stop enabling...because he is not able to receive your help in the way YOU intend it.....
You can still love him...but, it has to be at a distance, for now.

You are hurting as much or more than he is, right now...he is numbed out from the substances...you are not.....

You need more support and help from others who have been through this.....
I am sending you strength....

dandylion

hope778

(((Vaya))) Sending my prayers and support. Outsiders and addicts will never know the pain, torment, and trauma we experience from loving them through active addiction. I pray it is the hardest thing you or I have to ever go through. I am not sure how we could endure anything more.

I agree with those before me. You must stop padding his falls and taking the blows for him. It took me a long time to really realize that when others would tell me. I finally told my husband he had to leave when he was actively using. He told me I would never see him again (he was going to kill himself that day). That is a trauma I will likely never recover from. I believed him. He had no job, money, car, home, nothing. I believed that he was so depressed and so low in life that I really would never see him again, and that this was how it was all going to end. But I chose to surround myself with my counselor and my family who love me and want me to experience my best in life. Not easy, Vaya. Not easy at all. But that is what you must do. I did not speak with my husband.

Fast forward one month. He is going to outpatient treatment. He starts a new job in a week, and is on the verge of getting a car. None of this, and I mean NONE of this, would have happened if I did not get out of the way. And I am telling you, he was low and depressed and ready to give up entirely. His DOC is H also.

I am not naive. It could all slip away in a heartbeat based on his decisions. And if it does, I will have to do the same thing. Make him go on his own and choose where his life will go. But I tell this brief story to explain that we must get out of the way for them to reach a point of being alone in their thoughts so they can come to the crossroads and finally decide which path their life will take.

I am praying for you. I hate addiction with everything in me.

PuzzledHeart

What Anvilhead said...
Vaya, what are you doing to protect your other son?

I ask this because your AS reminds me so much of my cousin. His parents couldn't bear to kick him out of the house, but they were so afraid of him that they would lock the doors to their bedroom because they were afraid he was going to kill them.

Meanwhile he physically abused his younger siblings to the point they ended up in foster care and sexually abused my sister, who now has her own substance abuse problem. For whatever reason, he never dared to try to charm me. Thank God.

And all this time, his parents say "We can't kick him out because he's our son." And they turned a blind eye to how his behavior affected the rest of his family. And they did that because they loved him, even as they neglected the needs of their other children.

And EVEN IF your other son says nothing has happened to him, you never really know. I used to pay my sister's speeding tickets and cover for her because that's what sisters do at that age. When my sister got "pregnant" (she thought it would be funny if she told me she was even though she wasn't - and got her friends into the act too) I didn't open my mouth once while that prank was happening. And I felt sick and I wanted to throw up and I just utterly powerless over the situation.

Another thing that Anvilhead said...
You have no idea what's happening if you don't start looking. And your AS has left so many clues...

I'll be praying for you. It's not too late to draw the line and say enough is enough.

vaya

Tomorrow morning he goes to the sober living. He will have to attend 2 meetings a week there. It is far from glamourous, very bare bones, but a little more flexible than some in some ways. A lot of older people on SSI from a sober living that just closed came in. He will definitely need to adjust. Not a private room, but a top bunk in a room with 3 other men. It's a bed and a place to keep some of his stuff. He can get to DMH, check on his housing application, and will be more motivated to seek work and will have to grow up and be more independent. He knows is he screws it up by using there he's on his own. No coming back here. I am resolute about that. Everytime he comes back here he does the same thing. I was able to say it calmly and he is accepting it. Says he wants to stop but .....up to him. He knew it was the sober living, rehab, or shelters and the streets and opted for the sober living. I am doing this for me, more than for him because I am too entangled in his disease and am getting over the fact that I can't save him. I know being here is worse because it's too comfortable and I cave in on things like giving him money sometimes. Will be easier to detach and establish my boundaries. Wont' be running over there like the last one he went to to help with things all the time. I might occasionally give him a ride to get food, but don't want to do that as much. Ithink he's going because he knows I'll help if he goes there, but not like before. Maybe cigarettes occasionally rather than money for cigs, food, rather than money for food, possibly put money on his bus card.....He has no money left at all now. Every time I give him money it goes to drugs. This is the worst its ever been.
Might consider $10 a week , but would rather give him food. He chose to spend ALL his money and then some and his food stamps. He's going to have to tough it out now. I don't think he knows what he's in for.
Regardless he is getting the message that he can't be here and I am not tolerating his using and behavior.
I know his brother will be able to breathe a sigh of relief finally too.
It's not over.. he will beg, nag, etc. But he needs to focus on how he's going to make it now and either get help or actually get the job he talks about and get it together rather than laying around my apt. loaded all day or out dealing and pursuing drugs. I pray I remember the horrors I've seen and how he's deteriorated and the effect it's had on us all. I cant risk my apt and well being. It wont' be easy, but I have to do this for both of us.

dandylion

vaya....I commend you on the degree of detachment that you are able to employ at this time.....I know that it takes a lot of pain to get you to this point.
and, I know, all too well, that it is easier to say it than to actually to it!!

As a war scarred mother--I want to say this to you, out of an abundance of compassion for your mother's heart.....
The things that you mentioned--giving him 10 dollars per week...taking him on food runs...helping out for the occasional problem....etc.
I can tell you that my son was able to get all of these kinds of minimal needs met
by his own resourcefulness when he H AD TO. Just like he would manage to get alcohol when he had no money!
Mom--you underestimate. These young people have more energy and more resourceful to get what they want than you can imagine!
And, they know that the mother's soft buttons are always good for a hit...if they just hit the guilt buttons, hard enough.
You are already planning, in your mind how much you will enable him..in order not to feel so bad, yourself, when he cries out for something.
He could always live under a bridge and panhandle for money, if he had to.
Many people do, before they will finally get the message that they are respponsible for themselves. Completely responsible.
I am not saying to not love him.
I say to always talk to him like a loving mother when he is sober. Always share hope with him and love with him. Laugh with him. Talk about "nothing stuff" with him. Share stories and aspirations and talk philosophy with him.....
Just don't let him beg. Let him understand that he is an adult on his own--expected t face life on life's terms.
Let him call you because he loves you....let him visit because he loves you...not because it is the "cost" to get ten dollars.......

I had to get to that point and it took me a while. but, it had to happen before it became a relationship of equals with my son...and not me, the enabling, constantly nurturing mother bird.

Now, I have been around long enough to know that you probably think thar I am taking too hard of a lline....
It sounds too harsh for you to be comfortable with....I know....
and, I know that you will probably politely thank me for my concern and input....but, the message will really roll off your back like water off of Teflon....
and that is o.k., of course.
What I do hope is that some of this will stick in the back of your mind until the time that you need to and will be able to use it....

All of my very best to you, Mom!

dandylion

Ilovemysonjj

Thank you Dandylion, a very concise and accurate portrayal of the enabling parent coming to terms with our codependency. I also try to "see into" what I will do next if JJ does a,b,c. It is extremely exhausting. I will be keeping this very close to heart. My son is leaving his program after 9 months and living on his own in sober living next week. I am quite aware of my tendency on having to always KNOW what is going to happen and how I am going to respond. I sit on my hands at times when I feel so lost (since I am not in control LOL). still a process for me whenever JJ is out of the woods and not using. even when he is sober, I am still a codependent enabler who must always be aware of my tendencies to step in (uninvited even!).

dandylion

Ilivemysonjj....I think this is especially hard for mothers....and fathers, as well....
After all we have been geared, by nature, to care for our offspring from the time they are young...to do everything for them, at the very first. Nurturing is the very name of the game.
Then, as they grow older and bigger..we still have to have them o n our minds all of the time...anticipating their needs...protecting them from harm...
Even the law says that we have responsibility for them until age 18yrs.
Even when the children don't co-operate and comply...we still have responsibility --even without authority......
Then, at 18yrs....we are supposed to ...BAM...suddenly stop it......
It just doesn't seem fair to expect so much from us, does it?

On top of it all.....there is addiction...which turn all of the rules about how we deal with each other all topsy-turvy!
We have to go with what is so counterintuitive, in the first place.
I don't know much of anything that is any harder on a parent than having a child that is addicted.......

Thank you, ilovemysonjj, for your kind words.

dandylion