One size does not fit all
Catch 22
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: South Africa
Posts: 327
One size does not fit all
I stopped drinking three months ago. On advice I joined AA. I have not missed a meeting. The difficulty is that I do not believe the formula is working for me. I am stuck at step two. I simply can not find a higher power. The concept to me is ridiculous.
Also, the AA concept of "sharing" appears to be egocentric self-indulgance. Our group is small and week after week we listen to the same people "sharing" the same old horror stories of their drinking days.
I do not like talking about or listening to "emotions". I find reading a good book a lot more valuable.
The members at the fellowship tell me all I need to do is not drink and go to meetings. This I do.
The reality is that attending meetings feels discouraging and adds to a sense of boredom associated with not drinking.
I will perservere for now, but unless something changes, I do not see my recovery road in that direction.
Also, the AA concept of "sharing" appears to be egocentric self-indulgance. Our group is small and week after week we listen to the same people "sharing" the same old horror stories of their drinking days.
I do not like talking about or listening to "emotions". I find reading a good book a lot more valuable.
The members at the fellowship tell me all I need to do is not drink and go to meetings. This I do.
The reality is that attending meetings feels discouraging and adds to a sense of boredom associated with not drinking.
I will perservere for now, but unless something changes, I do not see my recovery road in that direction.
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,439
If you feel that strongly there are other face to face recovery groups, Darwinia? SMART, Lifering Women For Sobriety...
I do know a fair few atheists in AA who seem to find value in the steps. Maybe you'll hear from some of them
Maybe a different meeting would be better sharewise?
D
I do know a fair few atheists in AA who seem to find value in the steps. Maybe you'll hear from some of them
Maybe a different meeting would be better sharewise?
D
Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: W Washington
Posts: 11,589
have you tried different meetings?
it sounds like you have some strong resistance to two of the "hallmarks" of the AA program......the concept of a higher power and also sharing in a group. i understand that in a smaller group, you will likely hear the same voices, the same stories.
one thing to think about.....is that person telling their story still sober??? are they managing to do what you have not so far? stay sober long term? maybe next time you hear someone's story, try to listen for the similarities.....see if you hear any of your own story.
ultimately, AA may not be for you. or it may not be for you right now. it's a free program, so you are free to attend or not as YOU see fit.
a lot of people get hung up on the Higher Power thing.....it's a unique experience for each. sometimes it is as vague as SOMETHING out there that is not ME.
keep your feet moving in a sober direction, and get there however YOU need to!
it sounds like you have some strong resistance to two of the "hallmarks" of the AA program......the concept of a higher power and also sharing in a group. i understand that in a smaller group, you will likely hear the same voices, the same stories.
one thing to think about.....is that person telling their story still sober??? are they managing to do what you have not so far? stay sober long term? maybe next time you hear someone's story, try to listen for the similarities.....see if you hear any of your own story.
ultimately, AA may not be for you. or it may not be for you right now. it's a free program, so you are free to attend or not as YOU see fit.
a lot of people get hung up on the Higher Power thing.....it's a unique experience for each. sometimes it is as vague as SOMETHING out there that is not ME.
keep your feet moving in a sober direction, and get there however YOU need to!
~sb
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: MD
Posts: 15,967
are you working with a sponsor?
step 2 is willingness.
willingness to believe, willingness to set aside old beliefs or willingness to stop insisting there is no higher power, then the willingness to move on with step 3, being under the care of a higher power so you can get through step 7......
step 2 is willingness.
willingness to believe, willingness to set aside old beliefs or willingness to stop insisting there is no higher power, then the willingness to move on with step 3, being under the care of a higher power so you can get through step 7......
AA Member
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Silicon Valley
Posts: 2,983
The 2nd to last paragraph of the 1st step in the 12X12.
Why all this insistence that every A.A. must hit bottom
first? The answer is that few people will sincerely try to
practice the A.A. program unless they have hit bottom.
For practicing A.A.’s remaining eleven Steps means the
adoption of attitudes and actions that almost no alcoholic
who is still drinking can dream of taking. Who wishes to
be rigorously honest and tolerant? Who wants to confess
his faults to another and make restitution for harm done?
Who cares anything about a Higher Power, let alone
meditation and prayer? Who wants to sacrifice time and energy
in trying to carry A.A.’s message to the next sufferer? No,
the average alcoholic, self-centered in the extreme, doesn’t
care for this prospect—unless he has to do these things in
order to stay alive himself.
Why all this insistence that every A.A. must hit bottom
first? The answer is that few people will sincerely try to
practice the A.A. program unless they have hit bottom.
For practicing A.A.’s remaining eleven Steps means the
adoption of attitudes and actions that almost no alcoholic
who is still drinking can dream of taking. Who wishes to
be rigorously honest and tolerant? Who wants to confess
his faults to another and make restitution for harm done?
Who cares anything about a Higher Power, let alone
meditation and prayer? Who wants to sacrifice time and energy
in trying to carry A.A.’s message to the next sufferer? No,
the average alcoholic, self-centered in the extreme, doesn’t
care for this prospect—unless he has to do these things in
order to stay alive himself.
waking down
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,641
If the Steps are only suggestions, as they claim they are, why can't you just skip Step 2 and move on? Don't be guilt-tripped or shamed by AA. Use what works, table what doesn't. Me? 30 months sober and I quit AA after less than a dozen meetings. Do what works for you. AA is not the only way.
A Day at a Time
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Grand Rapids MI
Posts: 6,435
I will say that when I did sobriety my way I had a 100% failure rate. When I got a sponsor, read the first 164 pages of the big book (especially the chapter to the agnostic) went to 6 AA meetings a week, and worked the steps I got sober. I dabbled in AA for many years and I found when I did 50% of AA I got 0% sober
Member
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 36
You don't NEED AA, I am not religious at all, nor have I continued to attend AA after the first few meetings, it wasn't for me, and I am doing just fine. What you do need is the resolve to quit drinking, and plan to get it done. For me it's important to stay on the forums on here and sites like this so I don't forget why I quit, and so I can try to help others. It's good to be active in the sober community when developing new habits and breaking free from your old ones.
Blue Belt
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Soberville, USA
Posts: 4,174
Dar,
AA works for most. It does not work for all. The steps beyond 3 are not sinking in for me. I was couselled here the reason I am not making AA progress is because I don't go to enough meetings. I don't need AA to that level...yet.
I don't have a sponser. I haven't ask for one....yet.
I am sober 15 months and only went to about 12 meetings.
I crave. But, it goes away.
You are an addict. A drug addict. Tell yourself that when you crave. It helps me have more commitment when the booze is on the table.
Ok...time for some D122y world...AA believes this as well...I think.
If you don't believe in a higher power, you have to make it on your own. IMO...if you don't believe in God...then the other entity...the evil one...is wrecking you.
That entity will eventually drive you insane.
You have to have faith. It is a miracle that happens once you give it a shot.
I vote...give God a chance. Google the Lord's prayer. Say the words. Really believe in the words. Pray for a miracle. I cried when I prayed for mine.
I say that prayer at least once a day. AA says it to.
That is all.
Thanks for the post.
AA works for most. It does not work for all. The steps beyond 3 are not sinking in for me. I was couselled here the reason I am not making AA progress is because I don't go to enough meetings. I don't need AA to that level...yet.
I don't have a sponser. I haven't ask for one....yet.
I am sober 15 months and only went to about 12 meetings.
I crave. But, it goes away.
You are an addict. A drug addict. Tell yourself that when you crave. It helps me have more commitment when the booze is on the table.
Ok...time for some D122y world...AA believes this as well...I think.
If you don't believe in a higher power, you have to make it on your own. IMO...if you don't believe in God...then the other entity...the evil one...is wrecking you.
That entity will eventually drive you insane.
You have to have faith. It is a miracle that happens once you give it a shot.
I vote...give God a chance. Google the Lord's prayer. Say the words. Really believe in the words. Pray for a miracle. I cried when I prayed for mine.
I say that prayer at least once a day. AA says it to.
That is all.
Thanks for the post.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 409
I don't really know what kind of higher power is out there but I know there is one. when I read it in the AA book it asks do you believe in a power greater then yourself? When I read that I thought well of course there has to be a power greater than man. there is a greater force out there in the world. I am just now getting into AA, I don't know if it's for me but I cant really decide that unless I try it! Getting sober this time around I was looking to get sober other than AA but it's where alcoholics go and that's me lol. I wish you luck on your journey and let me know If you find a way that works for you. I am looking to keep my sobriety in many different ways. I think for now when I go to AA it gets me out and not isolate and it gives me a hope that everything will be ok.
NA Member - Atheist
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Middletown CT USA
Posts: 770
I was extremely resistant to going to NA. I had a plethora of misgivings as well once I got there.
Not using and going to meetings is a good start, but they are not how 12 step recovery works. The steps are.
I was and remain an atheist, and step two seemed like a huge obstacle for me. Over time and through experience I realized that I had misread the step. It didn't say that I believed in god. If anything, the NA text and people with experience in the program assured me that the nature of the power of my understanding was entirely up to me.
Not only that, but step two didn't say that I believed in a power greater than myself. It said that I came to believe that a power greater than myself could restore me to sanity. "Came to believe" implies a process, and my experience bears this out. Likewise, the step doesn't say that I came to believe IN a power greater than myself, it says I came to believe THAT a power greater than myself could restore me to sanity.
It never says I had to define it or completely understand it.
In the beginning Steps 1-2-3 for me were "I'm broken, I hope this NA program does something but I don't think it will, today I'll do what they say even if I think it sounds foolish or stupid." It's not that much different now, except I have a lot more belief and confidence in the process itself.
When I was new "coming to believe" was nothing more than observing the evidence in other people's lives. Not everyone in NA or AA was clean or had what I wanted, but there were people there who were clean and who were comfortable in their own skin. They had integrity, and I watched them survive adversity with dignity.
As I began to stay clean and started on the journey of going through the steps and learning to apply them in my life with the guidance of an experienced sponsor, I began to produce my own evidence that the program of recovery worked. "coming to believe" was now based upon the evidence I could see in my own life. I actually felt better.
Just as cool, I began to witness remarkable transformations in the lives of those people who came in with me or after me that stayed clean and began to apply this program of recovery in their own lives. This allowed me to "come to believe" some more.
What have I come to believe? - Simply that this power of my understanding (which includes the steps, living by some spiritual/ethical principles, and the therapeutic value of one addict/alcoholic helping another) can help me survive life and my own emotions and be a happy person.
Not using and going to meetings is a good start, but they are not how 12 step recovery works. The steps are.
I was and remain an atheist, and step two seemed like a huge obstacle for me. Over time and through experience I realized that I had misread the step. It didn't say that I believed in god. If anything, the NA text and people with experience in the program assured me that the nature of the power of my understanding was entirely up to me.
Not only that, but step two didn't say that I believed in a power greater than myself. It said that I came to believe that a power greater than myself could restore me to sanity. "Came to believe" implies a process, and my experience bears this out. Likewise, the step doesn't say that I came to believe IN a power greater than myself, it says I came to believe THAT a power greater than myself could restore me to sanity.
It never says I had to define it or completely understand it.
In the beginning Steps 1-2-3 for me were "I'm broken, I hope this NA program does something but I don't think it will, today I'll do what they say even if I think it sounds foolish or stupid." It's not that much different now, except I have a lot more belief and confidence in the process itself.
When I was new "coming to believe" was nothing more than observing the evidence in other people's lives. Not everyone in NA or AA was clean or had what I wanted, but there were people there who were clean and who were comfortable in their own skin. They had integrity, and I watched them survive adversity with dignity.
As I began to stay clean and started on the journey of going through the steps and learning to apply them in my life with the guidance of an experienced sponsor, I began to produce my own evidence that the program of recovery worked. "coming to believe" was now based upon the evidence I could see in my own life. I actually felt better.
Just as cool, I began to witness remarkable transformations in the lives of those people who came in with me or after me that stayed clean and began to apply this program of recovery in their own lives. This allowed me to "come to believe" some more.
What have I come to believe? - Simply that this power of my understanding (which includes the steps, living by some spiritual/ethical principles, and the therapeutic value of one addict/alcoholic helping another) can help me survive life and my own emotions and be a happy person.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Earth
Posts: 607
You can get sober (or not) with or without AA. The one thing that all people share that get through this is the desire to change and the persistence to persevere. AA won't do it for you. SMART or RR won't do it for you. God won't do it for you. Satan won't do it for you. You have to do it, for you.
One lady at one of the meetings I used to go to swore Janis Joplin was her higher power. Not much of a recovery role model but I guess it worked for her.
The important thing is finding what out what works for you, whether that is the path most traveled or finding your own path.
One lady at one of the meetings I used to go to swore Janis Joplin was her higher power. Not much of a recovery role model but I guess it worked for her.
The important thing is finding what out what works for you, whether that is the path most traveled or finding your own path.
Brother of the Wolf
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Walking With Giants
Posts: 436
The higher power gig doesn't work for me either. I am not actively working the AA program, but there are parts of it that do help me. So, if there is part of it that helps keep you sober, keep it and scrap what doesn't help. No need to stop using a helpful tool just because it is a part of a larger system that, as a whole, doesn't work for you.
Blue Belt
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Soberville, USA
Posts: 4,174
The bottom line...for me.... is if we are actively working our recovery, and it is working, what ever works is good.
If I am sober, but unhappy, it is not working correctly. The key is being sober and being happy.
In my time here, in the BB, and at meetings I have learned that is what the 12 steps offer.
If a person can find sobriety and happiness, contentment at least, without the 12 steps, that person doesn't need them.
I know the religious stuff is "off putting." My step daughter graduated from a catholic junior high school. The day she graduated, she told her mom, "I am an atheist."
I am not a religious nut. I barely go to church for now.
Sort of like AA meetings for now.
I get it.
Religion is not for every one. I only offer it when I feel someone is asking for help and nothing seems to be working.
It works for me so I figure it can work for them.
Thanks for post.
If I am sober, but unhappy, it is not working correctly. The key is being sober and being happy.
In my time here, in the BB, and at meetings I have learned that is what the 12 steps offer.
If a person can find sobriety and happiness, contentment at least, without the 12 steps, that person doesn't need them.
I know the religious stuff is "off putting." My step daughter graduated from a catholic junior high school. The day she graduated, she told her mom, "I am an atheist."
I am not a religious nut. I barely go to church for now.
Sort of like AA meetings for now.
I get it.
Religion is not for every one. I only offer it when I feel someone is asking for help and nothing seems to be working.
It works for me so I figure it can work for them.
Thanks for post.
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