It's been a while my friends...
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Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 976
It's been a while my friends...
It's been almost 2 years since I posted anything here, although I visit and read often.
RAH has been sober for nearly 2 years now. Things have been a little rough as we've both been adjusting to our new relationship dynamic, but I figured we were suffering some growing pains and remained hopeful that the good stuff was just around the corner. He's been very invovled in in AA and has made some solid progress and some very good friends. I'm still going to Alanon and have discovered that I relate very much to the ACA program as well. We've both been seeing therapists too.
I've felt for a few months that something was not quite right. Saturday night he went to his usual meeting but came home much later that usual as he was spending some time with his sponsor talking out some "really heavy stuff". I asked him if we were okay and much to my surprise, he told me he wants to move out!
He feels his never really been on his own, sober for any lenght of time, and needs some space to find out who he is. He can't really tell me if it means we are breaking up, but talks a lot about other couples like us who get back together after something like this. I suggested living separately but still talking and dating. He hasn't agreed to anything as far as if we are actually broken up or still together but living apart. He says he doesn't know because our conversation was premature.
We have agreed though, that things will not be ugly between us.
He says he loves me and I'm his best friend. I am devastated!
I appreciate any and all words of wisdom.
RAH has been sober for nearly 2 years now. Things have been a little rough as we've both been adjusting to our new relationship dynamic, but I figured we were suffering some growing pains and remained hopeful that the good stuff was just around the corner. He's been very invovled in in AA and has made some solid progress and some very good friends. I'm still going to Alanon and have discovered that I relate very much to the ACA program as well. We've both been seeing therapists too.
I've felt for a few months that something was not quite right. Saturday night he went to his usual meeting but came home much later that usual as he was spending some time with his sponsor talking out some "really heavy stuff". I asked him if we were okay and much to my surprise, he told me he wants to move out!
He feels his never really been on his own, sober for any lenght of time, and needs some space to find out who he is. He can't really tell me if it means we are breaking up, but talks a lot about other couples like us who get back together after something like this. I suggested living separately but still talking and dating. He hasn't agreed to anything as far as if we are actually broken up or still together but living apart. He says he doesn't know because our conversation was premature.
We have agreed though, that things will not be ugly between us.
He says he loves me and I'm his best friend. I am devastated!
I appreciate any and all words of wisdom.
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
I'm really sorry for your pain right now.
I left my second husband after 14 years of marriage, when he was 15 years sober. He, too, was devastated, and had to get some counseling and lean very heavily on his AA friends/sponsor. The good news is that we DID remain good friends, and even today he is probably the closest friend I have. I didn't leave him because he was in any way inadequate as a husband, but because the relationship as it was didn't feel right to me.
He met and married a woman who loves him the way he deserves, and that's something I could not have given him. I still feel it was the right decision for me, and we have both worked out good lives for ourselves--just not meant to be together in THAT way.
So I don't know where your husband's head is at, but it could be something along those lines. I'd encourage you to grab onto whatever emotional support you need, and let him do what he needs to do. Sometimes it's much better to end a relationship while you still care about and respect the other person, before you are staying only out of a sense of obligation and collecting resentments.
Hugs, I really am sorry--I know it's not easy for either one of you.
I left my second husband after 14 years of marriage, when he was 15 years sober. He, too, was devastated, and had to get some counseling and lean very heavily on his AA friends/sponsor. The good news is that we DID remain good friends, and even today he is probably the closest friend I have. I didn't leave him because he was in any way inadequate as a husband, but because the relationship as it was didn't feel right to me.
He met and married a woman who loves him the way he deserves, and that's something I could not have given him. I still feel it was the right decision for me, and we have both worked out good lives for ourselves--just not meant to be together in THAT way.
So I don't know where your husband's head is at, but it could be something along those lines. I'd encourage you to grab onto whatever emotional support you need, and let him do what he needs to do. Sometimes it's much better to end a relationship while you still care about and respect the other person, before you are staying only out of a sense of obligation and collecting resentments.
Hugs, I really am sorry--I know it's not easy for either one of you.
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Chicago
Posts: 5,450
HiFLA, what an enormous shock this must have been for you. I'm so sorry for what you're going through right now. If you do not already have a personal professional counselor, I hope that you will seek one out to help you navigate the road ahead.
In the meantime, many, many big hugs from all of us.
In the meantime, many, many big hugs from all of us.
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
HopefulinFLA......I am going to be very honest with you about what I think....
and, it probably won't sit very well with you , either...(I really am sorry, because I know you are already hurting).......
I think that heis being half-assed and wimpy and self serving in how he is presenting this to you.
You are the one getting the knife....and he know it..so, I think he owes it to you to be honest.
something has been wrong for some time...and he has known this as well as you have.
That he is unwilling to be clear as to whether he considers this a break or not..as in official....is sidestepping, in my opinion.....
When someone tells you that he needs space to figure it o ut...that it is him and not YOU....really means: " I want to be without you---but, I don't have the guts to say that because it will make me look bad".
My concern for you is that you might be willing to give him what he wants and still let him make the decisions as to whether he ever wants you back again....putting your emotional like on a shelf in case he wants to take you down, again, like some china doll that he has tired of....
Honestly, if I were in your shoes, I would tell him...."You want space without me in it....then, go ahead and take all of the space left on this planet---but, be advised that there is no way in hell that I am going to wait around in some halfway space sucking hind tit"
***I don't know, of course, but don't be surprised if there is not a new actor on stage in the near future. It is not uncommon for them to cut a new one from the herd as they are moving to newer pasture.....
People don't just want to leave their "love and best friend" unless they have a larger plan in mind.
He is not in early recovery....he has 2 years under his belt......
dandylion
and, it probably won't sit very well with you , either...(I really am sorry, because I know you are already hurting).......
I think that heis being half-assed and wimpy and self serving in how he is presenting this to you.
You are the one getting the knife....and he know it..so, I think he owes it to you to be honest.
something has been wrong for some time...and he has known this as well as you have.
That he is unwilling to be clear as to whether he considers this a break or not..as in official....is sidestepping, in my opinion.....
When someone tells you that he needs space to figure it o ut...that it is him and not YOU....really means: " I want to be without you---but, I don't have the guts to say that because it will make me look bad".
My concern for you is that you might be willing to give him what he wants and still let him make the decisions as to whether he ever wants you back again....putting your emotional like on a shelf in case he wants to take you down, again, like some china doll that he has tired of....
Honestly, if I were in your shoes, I would tell him...."You want space without me in it....then, go ahead and take all of the space left on this planet---but, be advised that there is no way in hell that I am going to wait around in some halfway space sucking hind tit"
***I don't know, of course, but don't be surprised if there is not a new actor on stage in the near future. It is not uncommon for them to cut a new one from the herd as they are moving to newer pasture.....
People don't just want to leave their "love and best friend" unless they have a larger plan in mind.
He is not in early recovery....he has 2 years under his belt......
dandylion
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: Florida
Posts: 6,780
Wow, I'm so sorry to read this, Hopeful. (((((Hugs)))))) I'm sure you feel like you've fallen into some weird parallel reality.
In fact, I'm sure you feel similar to that - it's how *I* felt when RAH & I had the exact same discussion years ago. I was blindsided that he felt the need to separate in order to try to heal & work through our (his)problems.
Now - it was a very different set of circumstances & this was ahead of his spiral into addiction & that directly impacted how it all worked out for us..... so I'm not trying to draw exact similarities here. But in the end, he was right. I was shocked truly at how much I learned about myself & how much I grew as a person.
I probably never would have even considered the option if he hadn't pushed for it..... and I couldn't deny the truths in what he said either. He hadn't ever truly learned to take care of himself or been on his own in any real way. I could see how many simple things he just "didn't get" as an adult. We were the same age but I was far more mature & had actually lived on my own before we met...... and being the Codie/ACoA/oldest child I fell naturally into the role of caretaking in our relationship from the get-go. It wasn't a bad, controlling thing either - we considered it playing to our strengths & we each took on the responsibilities that we were most comfortable with. We had a decade + together before DD came along & for years we had so much freedom & personal time & couple's time was easy & we really just enjoyed life.
So fast forward & RAH is now a business owner & DD is a preschooler & life is very REAL & his undiagnosed ADHD kicks into high gear, triggered by all the compounding stress. I still didn't understand him needing to work on HIM & I struggled against the separation simply because I couldn't understand how we could possibly work on US while we were even further apart. (life had already wedged some distance between us - I was feeling that we needed to do "more" & he was saying he wanted to do "less".) It took ME a while to get it through my head that he meant separation as, "giving us space to work on ourselves" and not meaning "separated while we work on our divorce". I needed a lot of constant validation & reassurance in the beginning.
How do YOU feel about it all Hopeful? Is there any validity to what he's saying from your side? Have you felt anything similar on your side of things? I know that I never felt such a lack of control as I did in those moments of contemplating separating & during the earliest days of living it...... I was so fearful of things I couldn't name & I think that was scarier than anything. (you don't have to lay it all out & answer here but definitely think through it from all sides, once your emotions start to settle, that is....)
I will say that while our separation definitely allowed RAH the room to make things far worse in a lot of ways, I wouldn't change it even given the opportunity to go back. That was his to experience & postponing it would have delayed it inevitably surfacing again. As much as I could never comprehend it at the time, it wasn't personal, not about ME in any way. At some point it came down to him not being really happy & me not wanting to be in a relationship where I forced my partner to stay. I'm sure we're an anomaly & that most couples don't survive a lengthy separation, but that doesn't mean it's impossible.
And remember - *my* experience is about separation ahead of addiction problems & resulting sobriety..... it definitely led to a lot of demon's escaping out of Pandora's Box before he ended up getting sober. I would say that your best bet is to be very clear about it all going into whatever terms you agree on. Don't just sit & wait to see what he has to say about all of this - figure out how YOU feel going into these conversations. You say you've felt off for a while - is that all on his side or have you been unhappy too?
In fact, I'm sure you feel similar to that - it's how *I* felt when RAH & I had the exact same discussion years ago. I was blindsided that he felt the need to separate in order to try to heal & work through our (his)problems.
Now - it was a very different set of circumstances & this was ahead of his spiral into addiction & that directly impacted how it all worked out for us..... so I'm not trying to draw exact similarities here. But in the end, he was right. I was shocked truly at how much I learned about myself & how much I grew as a person.
I probably never would have even considered the option if he hadn't pushed for it..... and I couldn't deny the truths in what he said either. He hadn't ever truly learned to take care of himself or been on his own in any real way. I could see how many simple things he just "didn't get" as an adult. We were the same age but I was far more mature & had actually lived on my own before we met...... and being the Codie/ACoA/oldest child I fell naturally into the role of caretaking in our relationship from the get-go. It wasn't a bad, controlling thing either - we considered it playing to our strengths & we each took on the responsibilities that we were most comfortable with. We had a decade + together before DD came along & for years we had so much freedom & personal time & couple's time was easy & we really just enjoyed life.
So fast forward & RAH is now a business owner & DD is a preschooler & life is very REAL & his undiagnosed ADHD kicks into high gear, triggered by all the compounding stress. I still didn't understand him needing to work on HIM & I struggled against the separation simply because I couldn't understand how we could possibly work on US while we were even further apart. (life had already wedged some distance between us - I was feeling that we needed to do "more" & he was saying he wanted to do "less".) It took ME a while to get it through my head that he meant separation as, "giving us space to work on ourselves" and not meaning "separated while we work on our divorce". I needed a lot of constant validation & reassurance in the beginning.
How do YOU feel about it all Hopeful? Is there any validity to what he's saying from your side? Have you felt anything similar on your side of things? I know that I never felt such a lack of control as I did in those moments of contemplating separating & during the earliest days of living it...... I was so fearful of things I couldn't name & I think that was scarier than anything. (you don't have to lay it all out & answer here but definitely think through it from all sides, once your emotions start to settle, that is....)
I will say that while our separation definitely allowed RAH the room to make things far worse in a lot of ways, I wouldn't change it even given the opportunity to go back. That was his to experience & postponing it would have delayed it inevitably surfacing again. As much as I could never comprehend it at the time, it wasn't personal, not about ME in any way. At some point it came down to him not being really happy & me not wanting to be in a relationship where I forced my partner to stay. I'm sure we're an anomaly & that most couples don't survive a lengthy separation, but that doesn't mean it's impossible.
And remember - *my* experience is about separation ahead of addiction problems & resulting sobriety..... it definitely led to a lot of demon's escaping out of Pandora's Box before he ended up getting sober. I would say that your best bet is to be very clear about it all going into whatever terms you agree on. Don't just sit & wait to see what he has to say about all of this - figure out how YOU feel going into these conversations. You say you've felt off for a while - is that all on his side or have you been unhappy too?
Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: W Washington
Posts: 11,589
my post, if i had gotten here sooner, would have echoed Dandy's....
you want out? you want space? hold on, i'll be right back with packing boxes.....
i'm really sorry - that's a pretty stunning heavy blow. especially since he has been sober for 2 years now. that was supposed to make it all better.
you want out? you want space? hold on, i'll be right back with packing boxes.....
i'm really sorry - that's a pretty stunning heavy blow. especially since he has been sober for 2 years now. that was supposed to make it all better.
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
I dunno, I don't know that he's being wimpy about it--he may honestly NOT know whether he wants a divorce--that's pretty much what separations are for. I certainly don't think you owe it to him to stick around while he makes up his mind--part of separation is also taking the risk that the other person won't wait around. And that's perfectly fine--it's part of the deal. I do think it's important that you have an honest conversation about what your respective expectations are regarding seeing other people, among other things. You will also need to be clear on who will be paying which bills (if you have a jointly owned house, for instance, or other joint obligations), what you will do with your bank accounts, etc., to get your finances disentangled.
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: Florida
Posts: 6,780
Originally Posted by LexieCat 
I dunno, I don't know that he's being wimpy about it--he may honestly NOT know whether he wants a divorce--that's pretty much what separations are for.
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,103
I’m sorry this is happening to you, it’s not quite the direction you were heading in. I’m sure it was a shock.
I have to agree with dandylion, this is just more selfishness on his part and most likely someone else is will be entering into the big picture.
I would NOT sit around waiting on him to make up his mind if he does or does not want you in his life as a wife. Please keep in mind that for codependents relationships are big triggers especially when one may be faced with losing one. Clinging behavior, constantly needing reassurances, etc. all of the things that tend to push people further away.
Let the shock of all of this set in, keep going to therapy, al-anon and focus on what you want? Is putting your life on hold waiting on him to see which side of the fence he falls on, is that a healthy waiting place for you to be in? I would think not.
I have to agree with dandylion, this is just more selfishness on his part and most likely someone else is will be entering into the big picture.
I would NOT sit around waiting on him to make up his mind if he does or does not want you in his life as a wife. Please keep in mind that for codependents relationships are big triggers especially when one may be faced with losing one. Clinging behavior, constantly needing reassurances, etc. all of the things that tend to push people further away.
Let the shock of all of this set in, keep going to therapy, al-anon and focus on what you want? Is putting your life on hold waiting on him to see which side of the fence he falls on, is that a healthy waiting place for you to be in? I would think not.
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
FireSprite....I hear what you are saying...but, I'll bet the milk money that if she (your friend) tries out some new relationships..she will not come back to the old one....
Now, maybe, she really does need a more satisfying relationship...
and, I think that it is valid to leave a relationship if a person wants to....
It is just that I have never seen one time that the "I need more space" reason preceeds a return to the fold.....
I apologize, HopefulinFLA, for this hijack to your th read....
Now, maybe, she really does need a more satisfying relationship...
and, I think that it is valid to leave a relationship if a person wants to....
It is just that I have never seen one time that the "I need more space" reason preceeds a return to the fold.....
I apologize, HopefulinFLA, for this hijack to your th read....
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: Florida
Posts: 6,780
Originally Posted by dandylion
It is just that I have never seen one time that the "I need more space" reason preceeds a return to the fold.....
I agree that my friend has a unique set of circumstances, I'm just offering that it isn't a selfish, manipulative thing if she decides to leave her relationship.... it wouldn't be about HIM at all, in fact. If she decided to take some space it wouldn't be a selfish move on her part because she can't know what she doesn't know in her own ignorance.
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Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: atlanta, ga
Posts: 3,581
Hmmm.
I could have understood this when he ws first getting sober its such a drain on the relationship for many. I am having a hard time understanding it two years after the fact.
"Never been on his own sober"...."needs to find out who he is"......"can't commit to dating or talking during the separation because the conversation was premature"....
I do think there are times that separation is a good choice, I can't say I see that here.
It sounds to me like he is wanting to experience being single to see if he likes it.
My bigger issue with the whole thing is it appears (and I could be wrong) that you were left out of the equation in coming to this "solution", rather others were involved in discussion. I don't think its unusual to discuss with a friend problems.....however, if one partner is unhappy for whatever the reason may be, an open discussion about it should be on the table. Spouses may come to different solutions, we do not always agree. There is to me a huge difference between being a part of the discussion, than just handed over a solution that greatly affects YOU without your input.
There should be consequences for making such a drastic decision without involving you at all in the decision. Continuing to "date" him, or have a sexual relationship with him I would take off the table. NO WAY. No freebies. Go find yourself pal.
We all will put up with things.....I imagine you are very shocked and I am sorry for that. For me i'd be packing his stuff for him, even if I loved him. I'm realizing the older I get how short life is and its too damn short to remain in limbo while someone else goes to "find themselves" on my timecard. No thanks.
I could have understood this when he ws first getting sober its such a drain on the relationship for many. I am having a hard time understanding it two years after the fact.
"Never been on his own sober"...."needs to find out who he is"......"can't commit to dating or talking during the separation because the conversation was premature"....
I do think there are times that separation is a good choice, I can't say I see that here.
It sounds to me like he is wanting to experience being single to see if he likes it.
My bigger issue with the whole thing is it appears (and I could be wrong) that you were left out of the equation in coming to this "solution", rather others were involved in discussion. I don't think its unusual to discuss with a friend problems.....however, if one partner is unhappy for whatever the reason may be, an open discussion about it should be on the table. Spouses may come to different solutions, we do not always agree. There is to me a huge difference between being a part of the discussion, than just handed over a solution that greatly affects YOU without your input.
There should be consequences for making such a drastic decision without involving you at all in the decision. Continuing to "date" him, or have a sexual relationship with him I would take off the table. NO WAY. No freebies. Go find yourself pal.
We all will put up with things.....I imagine you are very shocked and I am sorry for that. For me i'd be packing his stuff for him, even if I loved him. I'm realizing the older I get how short life is and its too damn short to remain in limbo while someone else goes to "find themselves" on my timecard. No thanks.
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