Question About Carrying Childhood into Adulthood
Question About Carrying Childhood into Adulthood
So, the other night, after killing off 3/4 bottle of wine, the AW starts another "I am miserable in the marriage and it's all your fault" rant. Yes, I stayed too long and endured too much, again, but that's a different post.
One common theme that recurs is that she keeps on bringing up her childhood and how she was quiet, nerdy and overweight, and she is still scarred by that and is the root of her lack of self-esteem, yearning for love/acceptance theme throughout her adult life. Nevermind the fact her mother was a frequent binge alcoholic and her dad was an enabler, and made no effort to shield his daughter, my AW, from the toxicity of the situation. But she is in deep denial that this situation at home could have had any negative effect. She keeps on saying over and over, "I'm just a little girl". She's a grown woman who can make choices and free herself from the past that she says is chaining her down.
When I was growing up and my father didn't like females except for cooking, cleaning, and sex - it was because of his childhood and that his mother hated him and loved his brother, etc. Understandably, that would be a hard thing to take, I get that. But at the same time, it's 40 years since the woman passed away.
My wife is no longer overweight, she's not shy, and she's very smart. There are tons of resources available to help her get passed this - I feel it's another excuse and rationalization to drink. I have things from my childhood that were not good on my psyche either, but I don't dwell on them. I have decided that this is/was part of who I am, but it doesn't define me today.
Am I being too harsh regarding this? She has always held onto, and pretty much embraced drama ever since I've known her. I just think she wants to perpetuate the 'victim' stance - this then validates her drinking and escapism.
Thanks for reading.
COD
One common theme that recurs is that she keeps on bringing up her childhood and how she was quiet, nerdy and overweight, and she is still scarred by that and is the root of her lack of self-esteem, yearning for love/acceptance theme throughout her adult life. Nevermind the fact her mother was a frequent binge alcoholic and her dad was an enabler, and made no effort to shield his daughter, my AW, from the toxicity of the situation. But she is in deep denial that this situation at home could have had any negative effect. She keeps on saying over and over, "I'm just a little girl". She's a grown woman who can make choices and free herself from the past that she says is chaining her down.
When I was growing up and my father didn't like females except for cooking, cleaning, and sex - it was because of his childhood and that his mother hated him and loved his brother, etc. Understandably, that would be a hard thing to take, I get that. But at the same time, it's 40 years since the woman passed away.
My wife is no longer overweight, she's not shy, and she's very smart. There are tons of resources available to help her get passed this - I feel it's another excuse and rationalization to drink. I have things from my childhood that were not good on my psyche either, but I don't dwell on them. I have decided that this is/was part of who I am, but it doesn't define me today.
Am I being too harsh regarding this? She has always held onto, and pretty much embraced drama ever since I've known her. I just think she wants to perpetuate the 'victim' stance - this then validates her drinking and escapism.
Thanks for reading.
COD
Every single person carries their childhood into their adulthood. It is how they choose to deal with it that defines who they are.
And if they never choose to deal with it, then they are doomed to allow it to define them.
If she ever truly wants to move past this she will stop drowning her grief over the childhood she didn't get in alcohol and deal with it. She will stop trying to blame others for her own unhappiness. And all of that is hers, not yours.
This is who she is right now. Harsh? I don't know. I think it's more loving to see someone exactly where they are and to accept them that way. Accepting them does not mean you have to forfeit your own time and happiness to their issues and the things they aren't getting past. Harsh is demanding that someone else change in order to make you more comfortable. I don't see that in you.
And if they never choose to deal with it, then they are doomed to allow it to define them.
If she ever truly wants to move past this she will stop drowning her grief over the childhood she didn't get in alcohol and deal with it. She will stop trying to blame others for her own unhappiness. And all of that is hers, not yours.
This is who she is right now. Harsh? I don't know. I think it's more loving to see someone exactly where they are and to accept them that way. Accepting them does not mean you have to forfeit your own time and happiness to their issues and the things they aren't getting past. Harsh is demanding that someone else change in order to make you more comfortable. I don't see that in you.
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I don't think you're being too harsh. We all have our issues - some have had worse childhoods than others, or harder lives in other respects, but A's are very good at and very satisfied to step into the "victim" role. My AH didn't have a great childhood, but he was given every chance in the world to have a good life when we got together. I supported him, emotionally and financially, tried to steer him in healthy directions, gave him a nice home, and everything - every thing - he threw out in the trash. I took him back several times after his relapses (not this time). He has been in a perpetual state of "woe is me" and it is very tempting to want to caretake. Well, I have a 7 y/o boy who really needs a caretaker, and I also have to take care of myself. I think we have gotten the short end of the stick.
Honestly, looking back all that I have done for him has probably just enabled him even more. It certainly didn't get him to stop drinking. I think it is much easier for them to paint themselves as victims so that they will get a pass for their drinking and the destruction it causes. They somehow think they don't need to held accountable the way the rest of us do. It is always someone else's fault, someone else doing them wrong, blah blah. So what's the way to deal with it? Drink. Personally, I have had it with this approach. It sounds to me like your AW is doing some of this. It is part and parcel of the sickness. I hope you are not being hard on yourself, you've done nothing wrong.
Honestly, looking back all that I have done for him has probably just enabled him even more. It certainly didn't get him to stop drinking. I think it is much easier for them to paint themselves as victims so that they will get a pass for their drinking and the destruction it causes. They somehow think they don't need to held accountable the way the rest of us do. It is always someone else's fault, someone else doing them wrong, blah blah. So what's the way to deal with it? Drink. Personally, I have had it with this approach. It sounds to me like your AW is doing some of this. It is part and parcel of the sickness. I hope you are not being hard on yourself, you've done nothing wrong.
My first thought is….. Analyzing others has no benefit to us.
My second thought is, if her life truly bothered her and she wanted to put her past behind her once and for all…………she would. But instead she wears it on her sleeve and uses it as an excuse to stay just how she is drinking her life away because she wants to be the victim. When she says over and over again “I’m just a little girl” how many of the adults around her treat her like one? How many appease her, walk on egg shells, bend over backwards so that life runs smoothly?
My third thought is…..I think we often feel it’s just that simple…..we realize their root issue and believe it’s just a matter of them recognizing that then simply them working on it……..and BAME they are all fixed and the need to drink no longer exists…………it doesn’t work like that my friend.
My second thought is, if her life truly bothered her and she wanted to put her past behind her once and for all…………she would. But instead she wears it on her sleeve and uses it as an excuse to stay just how she is drinking her life away because she wants to be the victim. When she says over and over again “I’m just a little girl” how many of the adults around her treat her like one? How many appease her, walk on egg shells, bend over backwards so that life runs smoothly?
My third thought is…..I think we often feel it’s just that simple…..we realize their root issue and believe it’s just a matter of them recognizing that then simply them working on it……..and BAME they are all fixed and the need to drink no longer exists…………it doesn’t work like that my friend.
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Sorry to hear you got wrapped up in the tidal wave again. I know how those nights always were. It really messes with your head when they throw their rhetoric at you.
I don't have a lot new to add other than what was said above, and to say what happens in your house today regarding AW drinking does not have any bearing on her childhood or your childhood. However A's are outstanding at finding ways to be able to throw the blame towards others (such as yourself, or those who raised them, etc) as a way to justify the drinking.
If the reason to be drunk is just "because", that's not acceptable in their mind. They have to be drinking for more than "because". So, that becomes things like:
I wasn't raised right
I had a rough childhood (how many years ago was that?)
You hound me about drinking and that makes me want to drink more (my favorite and one I got a lot)
If you didn't bring up drinking I wouldn't have drank, but because you asked me about it I'm drinking now
I had a really bad stressful day ( at work/home) etc today
I am celebrating (insert random event here)
And the list goes on.
But the key thing I think we need to keep reminding ourselves is this is a window inside their head, and I think they also believe this to be true, that they actually deserve drinks as rewards (getting drunk is like a personal reward) and that also, deserve drinks for adversity (your case above, the adversity being that they were not given a chance to properly develop as adults and are drinking out of immaturity).
We all know none of these are good reasons to drink alcohol, even really a reason to have a beer or a glass of wine -- to me, the idea of telling someone, you really stressed me out or made me mad, so I'm going to have a beer to help make that better, is preposterous.
But we have to remember we are dealing with minds that see the world and most specifically the consumption of alcohol as a mind-altering substance in a completely different way than we do.
Sorry you got stuck in it, rest assured, none of it your fault not even in the slightest.
I don't have a lot new to add other than what was said above, and to say what happens in your house today regarding AW drinking does not have any bearing on her childhood or your childhood. However A's are outstanding at finding ways to be able to throw the blame towards others (such as yourself, or those who raised them, etc) as a way to justify the drinking.
If the reason to be drunk is just "because", that's not acceptable in their mind. They have to be drinking for more than "because". So, that becomes things like:
I wasn't raised right
I had a rough childhood (how many years ago was that?)
You hound me about drinking and that makes me want to drink more (my favorite and one I got a lot)
If you didn't bring up drinking I wouldn't have drank, but because you asked me about it I'm drinking now
I had a really bad stressful day ( at work/home) etc today
I am celebrating (insert random event here)
And the list goes on.
But the key thing I think we need to keep reminding ourselves is this is a window inside their head, and I think they also believe this to be true, that they actually deserve drinks as rewards (getting drunk is like a personal reward) and that also, deserve drinks for adversity (your case above, the adversity being that they were not given a chance to properly develop as adults and are drinking out of immaturity).
We all know none of these are good reasons to drink alcohol, even really a reason to have a beer or a glass of wine -- to me, the idea of telling someone, you really stressed me out or made me mad, so I'm going to have a beer to help make that better, is preposterous.
But we have to remember we are dealing with minds that see the world and most specifically the consumption of alcohol as a mind-altering substance in a completely different way than we do.
Sorry you got stuck in it, rest assured, none of it your fault not even in the slightest.
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Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 216
My second thought is, if her life truly bothered her and she wanted to put her past behind her once and for all…………she would. But instead she wears it on her sleeve and uses it as an excuse to stay just how she is drinking her life away because she wants to be the victim. When she says over and over again “I’m just a little girl” how many of the adults around her treat her like one? How many appease her, walk on egg shells, bend over backwards so that life runs smoothly?
Over the years, my ex had many opportunities for life to basically fall into what I'd refer to best as a "normal" pattern. "Normal" meaning: go to work, make the money, eat dinner, do the dishes, watch some TV, save up for vacations, etc. You know, the basic, normal boring life that most people do.
She somehow managed to, just at the precipice of what we would call "normalcy", being out of debt, out of school, settling into a routine, completely self-destruct with alcohol on an increasing scale until the point her life totally blew up and she was in total chaos. She followed this pattern before we started dating as well. Just BEFORE settling, just before a commitment to something long term, or just a commitment to living a regular life, BOOM. Chaos. And then, the victim complex kicks in. More reasons to drink. More reasons to look for attention from friends, family, from new people -- The PERFECT backstory and backdrop for the alcohol. My life is so terrible because XYZ so I am drinking! And everyone goes, oh, poor you, yeah we get it, your life is a mess right now -- You go ahead and have those drinks.
Amazing, remarkable both the "woe is me" and the victim complex, especially in cases like Ohio's AW, my ex, and many others I have ready about, where there is a perfectly wonderful life within reach, only to have their brains do an incredible about face to avoid all that and continue the turmoil and self-destruction.
Remarkable.
This is kind of typical alcoholic behaviour and thinking to be honest. I carried the same kind of resentments and anxieties around with me from childhood and early teens. It was like I'd stopped developing emotionally when I first started drinking to deal with stuff instead of finding more healthy ways. Recovery through AA and the 12-step program really helped. Yes, it's insane thinking. No, it's not rational, but alcoholics have a very distorted perspective of the world.
So. The good news is that there are ways she can address these issues if she wants to get sober and work on recovery.
The bad news is that she's got to want that herself before its possible, and even then it takes acceptance and willingness, and commitment.
So. The good news is that there are ways she can address these issues if she wants to get sober and work on recovery.
The bad news is that she's got to want that herself before its possible, and even then it takes acceptance and willingness, and commitment.
She, surely, could use a good therapist...after she puts down the bottle.
You can't be her therapist....and, don't fall into the trap of trying to be.....
Like lots of people, she doesn't realize that she is responsible to look after her own happiness......
she has to face her own demons, if she is ever going to find any peace.
It is possible that if you stepped out of the line of fire...that she would have to look to someone (AA and therapists) who really COULD help her.....
dandylion
You can't be her therapist....and, don't fall into the trap of trying to be.....
Like lots of people, she doesn't realize that she is responsible to look after her own happiness......
she has to face her own demons, if she is ever going to find any peace.
It is possible that if you stepped out of the line of fire...that she would have to look to someone (AA and therapists) who really COULD help her.....
dandylion
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Hello, my husband is an alcoholic and it seems when he drinks (he is a binge alcoholic I think is the term), he really starts in on things from his childhood as well. He has had quite a bit of loss and it always tends to come up in the conversation. I hate it for him..but I wanna shake him and tell him that we are in the now and the past should stay where it belongs.
Of course, if I were to say that it would only initiate an argument and he would sit on the pity pot the rest of the evening. I do not think it is unfair for you or me or anyone to want our alcoholic loved ones to let go of the past. I do believe that is part of the disease though. It seems to really give them and "excuse" to continue abusing the alcohol or whatever substance they abuse.
Sorry for you and your wife as well. Take care.
Of course, if I were to say that it would only initiate an argument and he would sit on the pity pot the rest of the evening. I do not think it is unfair for you or me or anyone to want our alcoholic loved ones to let go of the past. I do believe that is part of the disease though. It seems to really give them and "excuse" to continue abusing the alcohol or whatever substance they abuse.
Sorry for you and your wife as well. Take care.
Yes, Wells, the AW wants to 'celebrate' the good things with wine, and lament the bad things (bad day at work, unexpected medical/other bill), with wine. Alcohol is the go-to for everything, regardless of the situation. An accomplishment? Wine. A disappointment? Wine. It's Thursday? Wine.
But, she told me I should be happy she is no longer is 'hitting the hard stuff" (Vodka). Passing out is passing out. Not remembering a conversation is not remembering. Oh, the illogical thoughts of an A.
But, she told me I should be happy she is no longer is 'hitting the hard stuff" (Vodka). Passing out is passing out. Not remembering a conversation is not remembering. Oh, the illogical thoughts of an A.
I like to think that WHERE we are in life doesn't necessarily relate to WHO we are.
With this world of technology & with answers & support literally at our fingertips, it's astonishing to me why someone wouldn't seek out education, solutions, forums, etc. We all certainly did, right? lol
Like somebody else said upthread- a lot of people truly think that just labelling an issue is enough to heal it. They don't understand that properly labelling it just step #1 - to help you GET to the right kinds of healing.
Denial is also incredibly strong here too - and people become invested in their damage, clinging tightly to it because it's THEIRS & they've EARNED those battle scars. (raising hand meekly - I've been guilty of this in the past myself...)
I know that last summer when I suggested to my mother that she stop clinging to her damage & seek out ways to manage it, she nearly ripped my head off & demanded to know just exactly how in the hell I expected her to go about that since she's not exactly a therapist & can't afford a reasonable one. The more ideas & solutions I offered her, the more insanely angry she became, lashing out at me as she shot down every legit thought. She didn't want help, she wanted sympathy. It occurred to me that she wanted to be better & not have to do any of the hard work to get there because she felt she'd suffered enough in her life already.
Now a YEAR later after I initiated & stuck to Limited Contact, she only just started back to individual & group therapy a couple of weeks ago.
Wells - it is shocking how people sometimes push away the very thing they say they are striving for, just at the moment it's coming together. It's like they are afraid of the very things they desire because then what? What's the next step AFTER that? What happens when they accomplish that goal? Easier to move the goalpost than to move out of their mental comfort zone.
During his drinking days, RAH went through about 18 months of treatment for invisible braces- this involved him getting new molds every 2ish weeks & slowly straightening his teeth. This has always been one of his biggest insecurities & as a singer, it was important to him to correct it. I supported him doing this, totally. At the end of 18 months there is always an adjustment & his dentist decided he'd do better to continue the molds for about 4 more weeks & AH had a fit. Acting like a punished child, he refused to continue changing the molds OR to continue wearing the last mold at night to maintain the changes & keep the teeth from moving back. He was angry at the dentist for changing the terms of the treatment - it was ALL his fault.
He suffered for 18 months through the aches of those adjustments & gave up the MOMENT he had an out & his goal was in sight. (His teeth looked amazing too) Of course, all of that work was wasted & everything adjusted right back out of line. So when he brought up his crooked teeth last week with a woe-is-me tone, I nearly came unglued & reminded him that that was his OWN doing.
During his drinking days, RAH went through about 18 months of treatment for invisible braces- this involved him getting new molds every 2ish weeks & slowly straightening his teeth. This has always been one of his biggest insecurities & as a singer, it was important to him to correct it. I supported him doing this, totally. At the end of 18 months there is always an adjustment & his dentist decided he'd do better to continue the molds for about 4 more weeks & AH had a fit. Acting like a punished child, he refused to continue changing the molds OR to continue wearing the last mold at night to maintain the changes & keep the teeth from moving back. He was angry at the dentist for changing the terms of the treatment - it was ALL his fault.
He suffered for 18 months through the aches of those adjustments & gave up the MOMENT he had an out & his goal was in sight. (His teeth looked amazing too) Of course, all of that work was wasted & everything adjusted right back out of line. So when he brought up his crooked teeth last week with a woe-is-me tone, I nearly came unglued & reminded him that that was his OWN doing.
I don't think you are being too harsh. There are all sorts of people in life who had rough, very rough, childhoods. At some point, you stand up and be the adult. You decide for your own child to break the chain and do what's right.
She's not a child, and treating her as such will only worsen the situation.
Hugs.
She's not a child, and treating her as such will only worsen the situation.
Hugs.
I think part of what makes her mad is that I no longer treat her like a child - she is an adult and should act responsibly. I've grown a lot over these past 10 years, and she has not.
I am sure you are likely very correct. My XAH is a child in every way. Our 10 year old child is more mature than him by leaps and bounds. There has been a great deal of resentment on his part that I decided I did not want to "take care" of him anymore. Admitted from his own mouth.
Thing is, I got married for a partner. I have the children I gave birth to, and my X husband is not one of them. Marriage is a partnership, not a parental role.
Thing is, I got married for a partner. I have the children I gave birth to, and my X husband is not one of them. Marriage is a partnership, not a parental role.
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I'm an Adult Child of Alcoholic/Dysfunctional Family. If she is interested to see if she relates to this/wants help she can google it or read a large part of the book free with the "look inside" feature on Amazon. I just joined a group. No alcohol in the family but emotional dysfunction, pain, guilt, shame, fear, and most of all emotional abandonment. The "Laundry List" is a list of symptoms.
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Thing is, I got married for a partner. I have the children I gave birth to, and my X husband is not one of them. Marriage is a partnership, not a parental role.[/QUOTE]
So true!!! I say this every day. I just forgot that he isn't a child because he behaves like one.
So true!!! I say this every day. I just forgot that he isn't a child because he behaves like one.
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CentralOhioDad-
A wise teacher once said to me. "It is to late to have a happy childhood, BUT it is never to late to have a happy adulthood."
In one fell swoop she placed the responsibility of me to work through my childhood, but also gave me hope that my past did not have to dictate my future.
There is a difference between working through your stuff and being stuck in your stuff. I suspect she is in the latter.
A wise teacher once said to me. "It is to late to have a happy childhood, BUT it is never to late to have a happy adulthood."
In one fell swoop she placed the responsibility of me to work through my childhood, but also gave me hope that my past did not have to dictate my future.
There is a difference between working through your stuff and being stuck in your stuff. I suspect she is in the latter.
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