Love is an action verb?
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Join Date: Aug 2004
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Love is an action verb?
Okay, I'm not sure I really understand this :scratchch , but my counselor is challenging my definition of love as a feeling i have inside for another. This was my 3rd session and after doing a little backgrounding and me expressing my lack of ever feeling truely loved, I told him how desperately I search to find a partner who will love me.
I've never had a healthy relationship with a man. I've always been attracted to men who end up alcoholics or addicts and they always treat me bad. I've come to realize that this is a product of my father's alcoholism and the rest of the stuff in my childhood. I learned as a child to be a victum. I also recieved constant mixed messages from family. They would say they love me and then act otherwise...which was a WOW factor when my therapist pointed out these mixed messages to me because that has been the case in every relationship I've ever had! :sigh:
He said love has a definition just the same as everyone knows there are 12 inches in a foot. If everyone involved in building a house has a different definition of a foot then the resulting structure is a total mess. The same is true with my love life he says.
He says if you are not taking actions toward another then you don't love them. He said if I am seperated from a loved one (say my sister goes on vacation) then I can be feeling the loneliness of not having her around, but that I'm not loving her during that time unless I'm doing active things with her in mind like writing her a letter.
Another Example: He described a set of grandparents he's been counseling. Their small grandchild keeps asking if her absent paternal parents love her. They keep telling her that her parents do love her. He said this is harmful to the child because she is learning a warped definition of love. She is getting those mixed messages I got as a child. She is being told she is loved, but is seeing no real proof of it, so her grandparents are setting her up to hang onto bad relationships as an adult.
It's a hard pill to swallow. It would be hard for me to explain to a child that her parents don't love her, but I see his point in causing her more harm by telling her differently. It's also very hard to have to admit to myself that my father doesn't love me. Even though he raised me, it was begrudgingly and any type of "quality" time spent together was by my efforts alone. I'm 28 and I can count on one hand the number of times he's ever done anything for me that he didn't have to or did so he wouldn't have to feel guilt.
I also know that when I really love someone, I take actions to SHOW them I love them, by calling, visiting, writing, clipping out articles I think they might enjoy
. But what I'm struggling with is that I love my cousins children dearly, but they live in another state and I haven't seen the one closest to my heart in years. I have pictures of her up in my home, but I don't have access to her because of her mother and the long distance...but I still know that I love her and this doesn't fit into my docs definition of love.
Any thoughts?
I've never had a healthy relationship with a man. I've always been attracted to men who end up alcoholics or addicts and they always treat me bad. I've come to realize that this is a product of my father's alcoholism and the rest of the stuff in my childhood. I learned as a child to be a victum. I also recieved constant mixed messages from family. They would say they love me and then act otherwise...which was a WOW factor when my therapist pointed out these mixed messages to me because that has been the case in every relationship I've ever had! :sigh:
He said love has a definition just the same as everyone knows there are 12 inches in a foot. If everyone involved in building a house has a different definition of a foot then the resulting structure is a total mess. The same is true with my love life he says.
He says if you are not taking actions toward another then you don't love them. He said if I am seperated from a loved one (say my sister goes on vacation) then I can be feeling the loneliness of not having her around, but that I'm not loving her during that time unless I'm doing active things with her in mind like writing her a letter.
Another Example: He described a set of grandparents he's been counseling. Their small grandchild keeps asking if her absent paternal parents love her. They keep telling her that her parents do love her. He said this is harmful to the child because she is learning a warped definition of love. She is getting those mixed messages I got as a child. She is being told she is loved, but is seeing no real proof of it, so her grandparents are setting her up to hang onto bad relationships as an adult.
It's a hard pill to swallow. It would be hard for me to explain to a child that her parents don't love her, but I see his point in causing her more harm by telling her differently. It's also very hard to have to admit to myself that my father doesn't love me. Even though he raised me, it was begrudgingly and any type of "quality" time spent together was by my efforts alone. I'm 28 and I can count on one hand the number of times he's ever done anything for me that he didn't have to or did so he wouldn't have to feel guilt.
I also know that when I really love someone, I take actions to SHOW them I love them, by calling, visiting, writing, clipping out articles I think they might enjoy
. But what I'm struggling with is that I love my cousins children dearly, but they live in another state and I haven't seen the one closest to my heart in years. I have pictures of her up in my home, but I don't have access to her because of her mother and the long distance...but I still know that I love her and this doesn't fit into my docs definition of love.Any thoughts?
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Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Carrollton TX
Posts: 466
I am no therapist - and while I can understand the logic of his statement - I think it's a little too harsh. Just my opinion...there is no black and white - there are all kinds of shades of love. You loving your cousins is a good example. Think about a mom who had to give up a child for adoption and probably never knew that child... she probably 'loves' that child a great deal. I am kind of surprised a therapist would make such an extreme statement. I 'love' the people on this forum and have never seen them. I think a better way to view it would be that certain people are only capable of giving restricted forms of love - usually due to a character defect in themselves. Or people may be restrained from providing the kind of love they wish to get for some other reason. I think it's inappropriate to tell a child her parents 'don't love her'...I would lean more towards saying something like 'some people aren't capable of giving a healthy love for a variety of reasons that have nothing to do with you'.. and exploring that. Especially when he has no idea what is going on in that parents head...none at all. The more I think about it - it's ridiculous (to me). I think he has completely misinterpreted the notion of 'love is an action'. But, maybe not...I am a desperate codie, so I may be completely convoluted. It's a very interesting thought though...thanks for sharing it!
the girl can't help it
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: splendraville
Posts: 5,599
weeeeeeeeeeeell-
I am wondering if you have ever had a friend that you do stuff with,feel comfortable doing nothing , buy little presents for, receive little presents from, call when you need someone and they call you when they need a good chat.... thats love.....
Often I think we look too much for chemistry and a feeling that we have know them forever in an S/O when we grew up in active addiction those feelings usually = addiction for us and them..... I noticed you said you always & always is it because you never,never look anywhere else?
Often the person we overlook or who seems boring is a person who is capible of love but, we are too busy chasing after illution,smoke and mirrors to pay that shy boring person much attention. They are the ones who have good jobs and are stable and a whole heart full of real love to give.
I would like to suggest that you pay some attention to some neighbor that walks his dog everyday or, someone who is always at work doing his job without fanfare or someone who regularly attends your church or is in one of your groups that you regularly attend. Look over the class clown,the flirt, the one who always has a crowd around them and see who is left..... strike up a conversation with them sometime and find out what they are doing with their life you might find someone who is truely a diamond in the rough right in the same places you are seeing rhinestones and sequences which look nice and shiney but aren't worth anything.....
As for Your cousins child you could start calling and sending cute cards and gifts too and ask her to write you back and send you a resent picture of her. Show an interest in what she likes cause she is getting older and be concerned that your lack of attention towards her may contribute to her being in a dysfuntional relationship....
I am wondering if you have ever had a friend that you do stuff with,feel comfortable doing nothing , buy little presents for, receive little presents from, call when you need someone and they call you when they need a good chat.... thats love.....
Often I think we look too much for chemistry and a feeling that we have know them forever in an S/O when we grew up in active addiction those feelings usually = addiction for us and them..... I noticed you said you always & always is it because you never,never look anywhere else?
Often the person we overlook or who seems boring is a person who is capible of love but, we are too busy chasing after illution,smoke and mirrors to pay that shy boring person much attention. They are the ones who have good jobs and are stable and a whole heart full of real love to give.
I would like to suggest that you pay some attention to some neighbor that walks his dog everyday or, someone who is always at work doing his job without fanfare or someone who regularly attends your church or is in one of your groups that you regularly attend. Look over the class clown,the flirt, the one who always has a crowd around them and see who is left..... strike up a conversation with them sometime and find out what they are doing with their life you might find someone who is truely a diamond in the rough right in the same places you are seeing rhinestones and sequences which look nice and shiney but aren't worth anything.....
As for Your cousins child you could start calling and sending cute cards and gifts too and ask her to write you back and send you a resent picture of her. Show an interest in what she likes cause she is getting older and be concerned that your lack of attention towards her may contribute to her being in a dysfuntional relationship....
A picture's worth a 1000 words
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: With any luck, I'm lost in a view finder
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Originally Posted by splendra
weeeeeeeeeeeell-
I am wondering if you have ever had a friend that you do stuff with,feel comfortable doing nothing , buy little presents for, receive little presents from, call when you need someone and they call you when they need a good chat.... thats love.....
As for Your cousins child you could start calling and sending cute cards and gifts too and ask her to write you back and send you a resent picture of her. Show an interest in what she likes cause she is getting older and be concerned that your lack of attention towards her may contribute to her being in a dysfuntional relationship....
I am wondering if you have ever had a friend that you do stuff with,feel comfortable doing nothing , buy little presents for, receive little presents from, call when you need someone and they call you when they need a good chat.... thats love.....
As for Your cousins child you could start calling and sending cute cards and gifts too and ask her to write you back and send you a resent picture of her. Show an interest in what she likes cause she is getting older and be concerned that your lack of attention towards her may contribute to her being in a dysfuntional relationship....
I am always attracted to the bad apples, even if I don't realize it at first. And I tried a relationship with a guy who wanted to reconnect from high school ( I didn't remember even what he looked like or anything, but yet he remembered the color of my eyes, my nick-name in grade school and he was away in the military and didn't have anyway of knowing that without remembering it). He told me he had such a big crush on me in school and I had never even noticed him because he wasn't one of those bad boys I was attracted to. We talked a lot and he had such a good head on his shoulder, loved his son very much and he had a lot of the good moral values I look for in the right kind of guy. But I went to visit him and even though I had become attracted to him as a person and developed feelings for him...he turned cold toward me before I even left. We never spoke much after that because he wouldn't return calls or e-mails. Even when he came back into town from military leave, he dropped by unexpectedly twice, but the visits didn't last more 5 or 10 minutes. So needless to say, I was hurt very badly be this experience as well.
And in my job, I am constantly meeting new people so you would think it would be easy for me to meet a good guy. It's like I send off some sort of vibe that I am messed up and so they don't want anything to do with me. I mean, I'm no barbie doll, but I'm not exactly an ugly duck either so I don't really understand.
And in regards to my cousin's little girl...I became her care giver for about 3 months during the first year of her life. She even looked like me and even when I took her to family functions (the other side of my family that is), they couldn't believe how much she looked like me. For the only time in my life, I FELT like a kinda had a daughter. I lover her very much. Her mother came back into her life and took her out of state. She wouldn't let anyone see her. She is 5 or 6 now. I miss her a lot. My aunt gets to see her occasionally now that she lives in that same state and she often sends me updated photos. I do need to find out an address so I can send her letters and stuff. It makes me sad because I know she wouldn't even know who I was if she saw me.
Anyway, what do you think about the mixed signals thing on the whole? If someone tells us they love us (like a boyfriend, husband, father or mother), but acts differently by treating us badly...does that mean they don't truely love us? Shouldn't someone ACT as though they love us, if they really do?
the girl can't help it
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: splendraville
Posts: 5,599
I believe if someone really loves us there won't be any doubt. They won't be using dope,putting us down or doing things that hurt the relationship. If they love themselves enough to make sure their own life is stable I am sure if they love us we will know by their actions towards us because they really do speak louder than words....
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: In Search of Finding ME!
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Wow!!!!! What a topic!!!!!
I would highly suggest you explaining to your counselor about your cousin's children so that he can see from your perspective. (See from your perspective in the way of love being a feeling - without the example being a guy)
Personally, I believe that we can have love for someone in our hearts.
As I'm sure most of us here can relate to this as an example....what about loved ones that have passed away? We miss them, we may (or may not) go to the cemetary, we think of them often, etc. Aren't those feelings? Or are missing them, visiting their gravesite, and thinking of them considered actions? Hmm.......I would love to have a logical conversation (debate) with your counselor! LOL
But then I also believe that love is an action word as well. Love is showing someone how we feel about them. It's not only in the "doing for others" aspect though. You know, sometimes you can see love in the way that a person looks at you. You can feel it when they hold your hand or give you a hug. It's emotional bonding - but yet is that not an action or is it in the eyes of your counselor?
You see......there are many ways to look at love. And I think that while your counselor may really believe what they tell you - it does not always mean that they are correct.
There are certain things in life that is to each person's individual perception of something. And while you may not agree wholeheartedly, each side has valid points.
I hope that I have not confused you further with my thoughts.
I would highly suggest you explaining to your counselor about your cousin's children so that he can see from your perspective. (See from your perspective in the way of love being a feeling - without the example being a guy)
Personally, I believe that we can have love for someone in our hearts.
As I'm sure most of us here can relate to this as an example....what about loved ones that have passed away? We miss them, we may (or may not) go to the cemetary, we think of them often, etc. Aren't those feelings? Or are missing them, visiting their gravesite, and thinking of them considered actions? Hmm.......I would love to have a logical conversation (debate) with your counselor! LOL
But then I also believe that love is an action word as well. Love is showing someone how we feel about them. It's not only in the "doing for others" aspect though. You know, sometimes you can see love in the way that a person looks at you. You can feel it when they hold your hand or give you a hug. It's emotional bonding - but yet is that not an action or is it in the eyes of your counselor?
You see......there are many ways to look at love. And I think that while your counselor may really believe what they tell you - it does not always mean that they are correct.
There are certain things in life that is to each person's individual perception of something. And while you may not agree wholeheartedly, each side has valid points.
I hope that I have not confused you further with my thoughts.
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Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 375
A bit like ... you can offer loads of advice, but if you don't get paid, you're not a councellor?
Deg the confused.
I would ring my father and tell him I love him - but if I did he'd think I'd started drinking again.
Deg the confused.
I would ring my father and tell him I love him - but if I did he'd think I'd started drinking again.
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Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Second star to the right....
Posts: 845
yah very relevant, just broken up a guy i was dating and it really hurts, love is what you define it to be, it has no laws and its a lot more simple to fall in love than some prudish arrogant people preach.
i think theres a marked difference between love passion and obsession, i lik my love lif to have drama cos i feel alive otherwise idrift away form a complete lack of interest, but its true im always ending up wih psychos and people that f**k around with my head. Ive gotta be able to live without it to live with it otherwise it will never be love. it will merely be a form of subsistence. acceptance and praise lies within me and no rlsps gonna solve that or be the rigid dream i have. i really cherish god and the friends and family i do have i my life. i have to think what ive got and what i cn do even though sometimes it hurts.
and i accept the bad and good. if im sad cry cry cry and then iget to a point here i get sick of crying so i smile. life isnt all peace and happiness but i havefaith that god wil pull me thru tho sometimes i wonder why the hell some of the things that happen in my life are allowed by him!!!
it will all become clearer in time
i think theres a marked difference between love passion and obsession, i lik my love lif to have drama cos i feel alive otherwise idrift away form a complete lack of interest, but its true im always ending up wih psychos and people that f**k around with my head. Ive gotta be able to live without it to live with it otherwise it will never be love. it will merely be a form of subsistence. acceptance and praise lies within me and no rlsps gonna solve that or be the rigid dream i have. i really cherish god and the friends and family i do have i my life. i have to think what ive got and what i cn do even though sometimes it hurts.
and i accept the bad and good. if im sad cry cry cry and then iget to a point here i get sick of crying so i smile. life isnt all peace and happiness but i havefaith that god wil pull me thru tho sometimes i wonder why the hell some of the things that happen in my life are allowed by him!!!
it will all become clearer in time
A picture's worth a 1000 words
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Join Date: Aug 2004
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I told my counselor/pychologist that it may take 2 or 3 months of therapy to wrap my head completly around what he means by "Love is an action verb."
yeah, When I have strong opinions about something, I turn into one of the worlds' toughest debators'. So we may be in for some rough sessions. See I love my ex very much. Probably more than I've ever loved any man. Though, I know he doesn't love me right now because he doesn't even love his self right now. And it's a giant possiblity that he may never love me and I'm teaching myself to be okay with that. But I think of him all the time. I write about him in journals all the time. I talk about him. I mostly try to teach myself how to stay away from him and how to keep talking myself out of calling him. I am letting him go so he can hopefully work on his own recovery some day.
Now, I KNOW I love him, but all these things I do are action verbs. Thinking is an action verb, as is writing, talking, teaching and letting go. But I can say I'm about 80 percent sure I'm no longer "IN" love with him. I pulled back from that to keep myself safe. I can not allow him into my life, except for an occational phone conversation, or else I will loose myself in him again.
Question someone else mentioned...Can a look or a touch from someone that feels like love actually be love. I'm going to take this one back to my counselor because those are action verbs, but my ex made me feel VERY loved in his presence "at times," but I don't believe he's ever really loved me. He looked at me with love in his eyes, he would often hold me and sweetly kiss my hand or my cheek or forhead for no reason. I always felt that these "actions" were his way of letting me know he loved me even though he couldn't say it. The main problem in this was that the next night when he was plastered again, he would be doing the same actions with his ex-girlfriend or a total stranger if I wasn't around or available to him. He was "tricking" us all. So this whole idea my therapist is trying to explain is confusing.
Also, my ex has told me 3 or 4 times that he loves me, he just has a hard time trusting women and committing and when I would ask him if he was "IN" love with me...he would say, "I don't know. I'm not sure I even know what love is."
When I told my therapist this, he said, "I don't know, means NO." And I'm leaning toward believing that because my ex has rarely taken any action to show love toward me unless it was for manipulation purposes or for his own personal gain. Even the phone call I got the other day was because he needed to know when my father is coming back so he can get his tools from him, but he acted as though he was calling to see how I was doing. Before setting on this journey of recovery for myself...I would have convinced myself that he called because he was thinking about me and missing me and that he was just courious about when my dad would be back.
It feels like a win/lose thing to finally know when someone is just using or manipulating me. (Win - because the knowledge helps me realize the real truth is often hidden beneath the surface and I can now see it so I now have a choice to let myself get bitten or not. Lose - because without the knowlegde that someone is trying to manipulate or use me, I often let myself FEEL loved for a while and experience great joy from the nievity of it. Even though it may only last for a brief moment before I'm dragged down into the darkness of the sea. I know how this sounds, but I still feel like I'm loosing the only little bit of joy I've ever known in my life.)
anyway, enought thoughts for today
P.S. The death of a family member is a good example that I also plan on taking to my counselor for debate. Thanks guys.
yeah, When I have strong opinions about something, I turn into one of the worlds' toughest debators'. So we may be in for some rough sessions. See I love my ex very much. Probably more than I've ever loved any man. Though, I know he doesn't love me right now because he doesn't even love his self right now. And it's a giant possiblity that he may never love me and I'm teaching myself to be okay with that. But I think of him all the time. I write about him in journals all the time. I talk about him. I mostly try to teach myself how to stay away from him and how to keep talking myself out of calling him. I am letting him go so he can hopefully work on his own recovery some day.
Now, I KNOW I love him, but all these things I do are action verbs. Thinking is an action verb, as is writing, talking, teaching and letting go. But I can say I'm about 80 percent sure I'm no longer "IN" love with him. I pulled back from that to keep myself safe. I can not allow him into my life, except for an occational phone conversation, or else I will loose myself in him again.
Question someone else mentioned...Can a look or a touch from someone that feels like love actually be love. I'm going to take this one back to my counselor because those are action verbs, but my ex made me feel VERY loved in his presence "at times," but I don't believe he's ever really loved me. He looked at me with love in his eyes, he would often hold me and sweetly kiss my hand or my cheek or forhead for no reason. I always felt that these "actions" were his way of letting me know he loved me even though he couldn't say it. The main problem in this was that the next night when he was plastered again, he would be doing the same actions with his ex-girlfriend or a total stranger if I wasn't around or available to him. He was "tricking" us all. So this whole idea my therapist is trying to explain is confusing.
Also, my ex has told me 3 or 4 times that he loves me, he just has a hard time trusting women and committing and when I would ask him if he was "IN" love with me...he would say, "I don't know. I'm not sure I even know what love is."
When I told my therapist this, he said, "I don't know, means NO." And I'm leaning toward believing that because my ex has rarely taken any action to show love toward me unless it was for manipulation purposes or for his own personal gain. Even the phone call I got the other day was because he needed to know when my father is coming back so he can get his tools from him, but he acted as though he was calling to see how I was doing. Before setting on this journey of recovery for myself...I would have convinced myself that he called because he was thinking about me and missing me and that he was just courious about when my dad would be back.
It feels like a win/lose thing to finally know when someone is just using or manipulating me. (Win - because the knowledge helps me realize the real truth is often hidden beneath the surface and I can now see it so I now have a choice to let myself get bitten or not. Lose - because without the knowlegde that someone is trying to manipulate or use me, I often let myself FEEL loved for a while and experience great joy from the nievity of it. Even though it may only last for a brief moment before I'm dragged down into the darkness of the sea. I know how this sounds, but I still feel like I'm loosing the only little bit of joy I've ever known in my life.)
anyway, enought thoughts for today
P.S. The death of a family member is a good example that I also plan on taking to my counselor for debate. Thanks guys.
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