Here I am...
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 169
Here I am...
I cannot believe I remembered my login info, says last time I visited was January 24, 2013. I don't really know what to say. I am just extremely lost and need to get some thoughts out I guess. I am sorry if anyone reads this. It probably won't make much sense.
I have been abusing alcohol (and other things) for 16 years.
I ended up in the hospital and medically detoxed for my first time in January of 2014, and since then have been trying to stay sober without much success. I can't remember how many times I have detoxed at the hospital in the past 2.5 years, and I have been to treatment 4 times. Lived in two 3/4 way houses.
I have been in AA for about 2 years. Worked the steps multiple times... gotta start over after every relapse... my sponsor won't give up on me. But I am pretty much convinced the 12 steps don't work for me. I try. I try so hard. I go to 3-5 meetings every week, I do the service work, I have tons of friends in AA. I am praying and meditating, but I cannot make myself believe in a higher power or prayer or anything spiritual. Am I willing to believe? I thought so, I thought I was willing to do anything to relieve myself of the obsession to drink. I guess willingness isn't enough. I don't even want to try to make AA work for me any longer, I don't really see the point. I am frustrated with the steps because I can get sober, but I am not STAYING sober. It is my fault the steps don't work for me, I understand that, I am doing it wrong. I am not a spiritual person. Which is the problem according to the big book. But the steps are not fixing that for me, like they are supposed to.
I must be too stubborn. And I am defiant, wish I wasn't, but I'm just going to be honest here. I also think I am being lazy about recovery... because I should really just keep at AA, but I am starting to wonder about the possibility of something else (not spiritual) that might help me.
I am terrified that I am not to the point yet, where I can actually stay sober.
But if there was a point, then couldn't I just quit on my own?
What is this point? Scared the point will be the night I drink myself to death and then I finally quit drinking simply because I am dead.
I really really REALLY do NOT want to drink. I don't want to be in this hell anymore. I really do not. I physically and mentally can't do it any more, but the last four nights I have not even fought. I leave work and the fight leaves me and I don't care. During the day (while working) I hate myself for drinking the night before, mainly because of the withdrawals. I don't have to drink hardly anything anymore... body just can't take it.
Couple of other notes: I am on meds to help with cravings (I don't think they do anything) also for depression. I go to therapy and really think I have a connection with her, but I don't think I see her enough.
All of these things combined (AA, therapy, meds, 3/4 way houses, treatment) have helped me make progress, I am grateful for that. My longest period of sobriety was almost 4 months, I am pretty sure if I did the math I have been sober more than not this year. That's pretty cool.
I have a lot of down time at work. My plan today is to make a new plan for recovery. I don't know if AA will be a part of that anymore. I am open to any suggestions at all.
I have been abusing alcohol (and other things) for 16 years.
I ended up in the hospital and medically detoxed for my first time in January of 2014, and since then have been trying to stay sober without much success. I can't remember how many times I have detoxed at the hospital in the past 2.5 years, and I have been to treatment 4 times. Lived in two 3/4 way houses.
I have been in AA for about 2 years. Worked the steps multiple times... gotta start over after every relapse... my sponsor won't give up on me. But I am pretty much convinced the 12 steps don't work for me. I try. I try so hard. I go to 3-5 meetings every week, I do the service work, I have tons of friends in AA. I am praying and meditating, but I cannot make myself believe in a higher power or prayer or anything spiritual. Am I willing to believe? I thought so, I thought I was willing to do anything to relieve myself of the obsession to drink. I guess willingness isn't enough. I don't even want to try to make AA work for me any longer, I don't really see the point. I am frustrated with the steps because I can get sober, but I am not STAYING sober. It is my fault the steps don't work for me, I understand that, I am doing it wrong. I am not a spiritual person. Which is the problem according to the big book. But the steps are not fixing that for me, like they are supposed to.
I must be too stubborn. And I am defiant, wish I wasn't, but I'm just going to be honest here. I also think I am being lazy about recovery... because I should really just keep at AA, but I am starting to wonder about the possibility of something else (not spiritual) that might help me.
I am terrified that I am not to the point yet, where I can actually stay sober.
But if there was a point, then couldn't I just quit on my own?
What is this point? Scared the point will be the night I drink myself to death and then I finally quit drinking simply because I am dead.
I really really REALLY do NOT want to drink. I don't want to be in this hell anymore. I really do not. I physically and mentally can't do it any more, but the last four nights I have not even fought. I leave work and the fight leaves me and I don't care. During the day (while working) I hate myself for drinking the night before, mainly because of the withdrawals. I don't have to drink hardly anything anymore... body just can't take it.
Couple of other notes: I am on meds to help with cravings (I don't think they do anything) also for depression. I go to therapy and really think I have a connection with her, but I don't think I see her enough.
All of these things combined (AA, therapy, meds, 3/4 way houses, treatment) have helped me make progress, I am grateful for that. My longest period of sobriety was almost 4 months, I am pretty sure if I did the math I have been sober more than not this year. That's pretty cool.
I have a lot of down time at work. My plan today is to make a new plan for recovery. I don't know if AA will be a part of that anymore. I am open to any suggestions at all.
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Dancing in the Light
Posts: 61,511
I think, if you are motivated, the method or path you choose for recovery is not an issue. There are many of us here who use many different ways to get sober and to recover.
You said it's the staying sober that is the hard part for you, and I understand that. What specific changes have you made in your daily lifestyle to support your recovery? I think this is so important because it's what enables us to recover. For example, you said it's after work when you buy alcohol. So, try going to the gym instead of going home, try driving home a different route, do something different, anything that will help you get through the evening.
You said it's the staying sober that is the hard part for you, and I understand that. What specific changes have you made in your daily lifestyle to support your recovery? I think this is so important because it's what enables us to recover. For example, you said it's after work when you buy alcohol. So, try going to the gym instead of going home, try driving home a different route, do something different, anything that will help you get through the evening.
Catch and Release
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Crazy Canuck
Posts: 441
Hi - I am not a spiritual person and do not believe in higher powers, so the secular approach works for me. Have you tried Rational Recovery and using AVRT (addictive voice recognition technique)? Go to the secular forum here for more information. You can also google Rational Recovery and do the free crash course online.
Maybe this approach will work for you. It's worth giving it a try.
CF
Maybe this approach will work for you. It's worth giving it a try.
CF
Member
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Reno, Nv
Posts: 411
Brittany thanks for sharing all that, truly. It's sounds like you have had a rough time, but you did say you thought you had been sober more than not this year, so that's progress, no?
If you want to try alternatives to AA there is smart recovery and rational recovery, and probably others I am not aware of. I'm just going to say this, it sounds like you may be hung up a bit on the word "spiritual". I really don't even like to use it myself, because it's so loaded and can mean something different to everyone.
For me, it doesn't mean that I will somehow be magically transformed all at once. It's more like an acceptance that I am not the center of things, not all powerful. When I can give up on that kind of thinking it takes a huge weight off me.
Everyone is different in terms of their recovery. I had MANY attempts at quitting before I finally quit for good. Each time I learned something. I'm sure you have too, so don't give up. Hang in there, and we're here if you need to vent
If you want to try alternatives to AA there is smart recovery and rational recovery, and probably others I am not aware of. I'm just going to say this, it sounds like you may be hung up a bit on the word "spiritual". I really don't even like to use it myself, because it's so loaded and can mean something different to everyone.
For me, it doesn't mean that I will somehow be magically transformed all at once. It's more like an acceptance that I am not the center of things, not all powerful. When I can give up on that kind of thinking it takes a huge weight off me.
Everyone is different in terms of their recovery. I had MANY attempts at quitting before I finally quit for good. Each time I learned something. I'm sure you have too, so don't give up. Hang in there, and we're here if you need to vent
Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 25,373
I believe everyone/anyone can quit drinking.
Something is stopping you - what do you think it is?
Maybe spend more time here - read everything. From the 12 Step forum to the Women's stuff to the "Class of" threads. Stay immersed in the recovery part of this. Post every day. There is a lot of wisdom on this site. I spent many many hours here in early days.
Something is stopping you - what do you think it is?
Maybe spend more time here - read everything. From the 12 Step forum to the Women's stuff to the "Class of" threads. Stay immersed in the recovery part of this. Post every day. There is a lot of wisdom on this site. I spent many many hours here in early days.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 169
Originally Posted by Calicofish 
Hi - I am not a spiritual person and do not believe in higher powers, so the secular approach works for me. Have you tried Rational Recovery and using AVRT (addictive voice recognition technique)? Go to the secular forum here for more information. You can also google Rational Recovery and do the free crash course online.
Maybe this approach will work for you. It's worth giving it a try.
CF
Maybe this approach will work for you. It's worth giving it a try.
CF
Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: northern michigan. not the U.P.
Posts: 15,281
Originally Posted by WiggleIn
I will check this out, thank you so much.
stop being those 3 and any program will work.
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 169
Well, tomsteve, the defiant and stubborn in regards to AA/steps. I should have specified. But you are totally right, I will try to keep myself in check with whatever I try next.
The laziness is a hard one, I def need to work on that. I start slacking off and soon enough...
The laziness is a hard one, I def need to work on that. I start slacking off and soon enough...
Do your best
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 67,047
WiggleIN with or without realising this thread has helped you in the key areas you need to improve upon to me that's excellent your being open & honest with yourself
Now to work on it and keep working on it trust me when I say you will love being sober but you got to get through the hard days when all else fails I stay sober no matter what I already know drinking destroys me so it's a case of been there done that ain't going back no point doing that
Do it for you no-one else
Now to work on it and keep working on it trust me when I say you will love being sober but you got to get through the hard days when all else fails I stay sober no matter what I already know drinking destroys me so it's a case of been there done that ain't going back no point doing that
Do it for you no-one else
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 169
Originally Posted by biminiblue
I believe everyone/anyone can quit drinking.
Something is stopping you - what do you think it is?
Maybe spend more time here - read everything. From the 12 Step forum to the Women's stuff to the "Class of" threads. Stay immersed in the recovery part of this. Post every day. There is a lot of wisdom on this site. I spent many many hours here in early days.
Something is stopping you - what do you think it is?
Maybe spend more time here - read everything. From the 12 Step forum to the Women's stuff to the "Class of" threads. Stay immersed in the recovery part of this. Post every day. There is a lot of wisdom on this site. I spent many many hours here in early days.
I am insane, I know...
Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 25,373
Originally Posted by WiggleIn
That is a very good question. I feel like there is a part of me that is stopping me, and it's winning lately. I feel like my addiction is almost another personality inside of me, comes out at just the right moment and takes over. My real self goes away. My thoughts about alcohol flip from what I was thinking just a minute ago, and I don't know how to get my sane mind back.
I am insane, I know...
I am insane, I know...
They are just thoughts.
They cannot make your hand pick up a drink.
They are just thoughts.
They cannot pour it into your mouth.
Take back your power.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: NC
Posts: 662
Most of us didn't create a strong lasting recovery right off the bat...so try not to get discouraged. The worst thing you could do is give up on yourself, no matter how many times you have to start over ALWAYS KEEP FIGHTING.
I never connected with AA or NA- it just never was what clicked with me and made me motivated. There are many different recovery programs out there- Rational Recovery, Life Ring, Smart Recovery, etc. You can always check out the numerous other recovery programs and pick one or combine aspects from numerous ones..this is YOUR recovery, so follow what works for YOU.
I am a huge advocate of counseling. Is your counselor a substance abuse counselor? I have found that sometimes finding one that specializes in addiction can be the best fit. In the beginning I went twice a week, then once a week, then once every 2 weeks, and now I go once a month minimum and more times if needed. Maybe you need to see her more often?
Writing a list of short term and long term goals can help keep you motivated, it has for me at least. Focusing on moving forward and taking steps to get there is a sure fire way to move forward. I also keep a journal so that I can see how far I have come, where my recovery is lacking, and what I am getting complacent with. I also wrote out where I want my life to be in a year and there wrote out where my life will be in a year if I don't stop using. That was a really good motivator and kick in ass for me.
YOU CAN DO THIS!
I never connected with AA or NA- it just never was what clicked with me and made me motivated. There are many different recovery programs out there- Rational Recovery, Life Ring, Smart Recovery, etc. You can always check out the numerous other recovery programs and pick one or combine aspects from numerous ones..this is YOUR recovery, so follow what works for YOU.
I am a huge advocate of counseling. Is your counselor a substance abuse counselor? I have found that sometimes finding one that specializes in addiction can be the best fit. In the beginning I went twice a week, then once a week, then once every 2 weeks, and now I go once a month minimum and more times if needed. Maybe you need to see her more often?
Writing a list of short term and long term goals can help keep you motivated, it has for me at least. Focusing on moving forward and taking steps to get there is a sure fire way to move forward. I also keep a journal so that I can see how far I have come, where my recovery is lacking, and what I am getting complacent with. I also wrote out where I want my life to be in a year and there wrote out where my life will be in a year if I don't stop using. That was a really good motivator and kick in ass for me.
YOU CAN DO THIS!
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 169
Originally Posted by AdelineRose
Is your counselor a substance abuse counselor?
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 169
Originally Posted by biminiblue
No, you're not insane. We all have that voice...that is the basis of the Addictive Voice (AV) in AVRT - you'll find a lot of talk about that. It's common to have those thoughts. (Cognitive Dissonance.)
They are just thoughts.
They cannot make your hand pick up a drink.
They are just thoughts.
They cannot pour it into your mouth.
Take back your power.
They are just thoughts.
They cannot make your hand pick up a drink.
They are just thoughts.
They cannot pour it into your mouth.
Take back your power.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: northern michigan. not the U.P.
Posts: 15,281
Originally Posted by WiggleIn
Yes, and she is in recovery herself. I think that's why I am connecting with her more than other's I have tried. I never trusted that anyone could actually help me because they don't really know, you know? .
Catch and Release
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Crazy Canuck
Posts: 441
Originally Posted by WiggleIn
That is a very good question. I feel like there is a part of me that is stopping me, and it's winning lately. I feel like my addiction is almost another personality inside of me, comes out at just the right moment and takes over. My real self goes away. My thoughts about alcohol flip from what I was thinking just a minute ago, and I don't know how to get my sane mind back.
I am insane, I know...
I am insane, I know...
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 169
I am still here, day three clean.
I don't know if I should join the July thread... I am a little worried because of my current status and feelings towards AA. So I just wanted to update this thread. Get some more of my thoughts out from the past couple of days, since deciding to abandon AA’s traditional 12-step approach to recovery, lots of mixed emotions going on…
(Before I begin… please please please understand that this comes from my own personal experience, I am definitely not preaching one way or another. Only trying to sort out my thoughts in regards to my struggles the past two years. My interpretations of the Big Book and experience in AA could be and probably will be totally different from yours.)
- I have been willing (and tried) to believe in a HP because I am otherwise doomed.
>>> I have never believed in the idea of “God” even as a very young child, despite being brought up in a strict catholic family. Since joining AA I became determined to change my core beliefs. This has proved to be extremely difficult. Being told that you “have to – or else” did not work for me. I am now afraid that relying on this “psychic change” will end up killing me before it happens. Unfortunately I was under the impression that this and only this is what works to save alcoholics.
>>> I am an incredibly gullible person. It’s awesome. So, of course I went along with “fake it til you make it”, “keep coming back”, etc… I think because at some point it is assumed I will “get it”… and I was desperate enough to believe they were right. Well two years of this and I am putting a cap on it. Definition of insanity anyway, right? Doing something over and over expecting to get a different result? After so many relapses I ended up feeling like there was something wrong with me, talk about feeling hopeless. I also believed that I was doing my absolute best at working a program, did everything I was told, but it seemed to never be enough, someone could always find a flaw, I was not working it or trying hard enough.
- I currently feel really great about getting my power back, taking responsibility for my life.
>>> Curious that I have been trying my damnedest to give my will and life over to the care of a HP that I didn’t deep down honestly believe in. I was introduced to the idea that if I take control then I am smarter than and more powerful than HP.
- I am now comfortable and agree with the fact that it is morally wrong for me to drink. Whether or not alcoholism is a disease, I do not care either way.
>>> I loved hearing and felt great relief in the fact that I am not to blame, said treatment and AA. I actually believe that might be true without proper knowledge and awareness about addiction. I honestly had no idea what was going on with me. All I knew was I couldn’t stop, ended up in treatment thinking that would fix me, then discovering AA. Now that I know more (not everything) about different ideas regarding addiction causes and recovery strategies… I personally feel like it would be morally wrong to pick up again. I know too much. It would be wrong.
SO…
Very glad I came back to this site, it is amazing that I had dismissed the idea of there being other ways to recover from addiction. I should have looked for myself earlier instead of depending on the fellowship and HP to guide me so much… though, again, I was lead to believe that when I take control s*** hits the fan… so I guess I was just trying my best at AA. No shame in that. I just feel a little stupid, like, “there you go again, Brittany, believing every single little thing you hear”.
I am aware that many people have benefited from AA, including myself (I do handle life stuff better and anxiety is a lot of the time under control), and if it works for the person I am talking to and millions of others, they have no reason to think it wouldn’t work for me too. It’s just a shame to not hear that people can actually recover in other ways. I have completed four inpatient treatments and months and months of IOP and OP -- not once was I told of any other program.
I finally purchased the AVRT book because it seems to address what I have been trying to describe to people (friends, family, sponsor, therapist) concerned with my drinking/relapses. That I feel like there is a split in my mind/thoughts/personality/whatever. That there is a true self, and an impostor - which my addiction controls. (I don't know if that even really makes sense, it is really hard for me to explain this, I am hoping the book will help with that). Looking forward to reading this weekend, and communicating with all of you here. I might still go to meetings, I think I benefit from the fellowship, I have connected with a great group of people in my city, just not sure how to go about it quite yet. Best not to worry too much, I am sure
(sorry I wrote so much)
I don't know if I should join the July thread... I am a little worried because of my current status and feelings towards AA. So I just wanted to update this thread. Get some more of my thoughts out from the past couple of days, since deciding to abandon AA’s traditional 12-step approach to recovery, lots of mixed emotions going on…
(Before I begin… please please please understand that this comes from my own personal experience, I am definitely not preaching one way or another. Only trying to sort out my thoughts in regards to my struggles the past two years. My interpretations of the Big Book and experience in AA could be and probably will be totally different from yours.)
- I have been willing (and tried) to believe in a HP because I am otherwise doomed.
>>> I have never believed in the idea of “God” even as a very young child, despite being brought up in a strict catholic family. Since joining AA I became determined to change my core beliefs. This has proved to be extremely difficult. Being told that you “have to – or else” did not work for me. I am now afraid that relying on this “psychic change” will end up killing me before it happens. Unfortunately I was under the impression that this and only this is what works to save alcoholics.
>>> I am an incredibly gullible person. It’s awesome. So, of course I went along with “fake it til you make it”, “keep coming back”, etc… I think because at some point it is assumed I will “get it”… and I was desperate enough to believe they were right. Well two years of this and I am putting a cap on it. Definition of insanity anyway, right? Doing something over and over expecting to get a different result? After so many relapses I ended up feeling like there was something wrong with me, talk about feeling hopeless. I also believed that I was doing my absolute best at working a program, did everything I was told, but it seemed to never be enough, someone could always find a flaw, I was not working it or trying hard enough.
- I currently feel really great about getting my power back, taking responsibility for my life.
>>> Curious that I have been trying my damnedest to give my will and life over to the care of a HP that I didn’t deep down honestly believe in. I was introduced to the idea that if I take control then I am smarter than and more powerful than HP.
- I am now comfortable and agree with the fact that it is morally wrong for me to drink. Whether or not alcoholism is a disease, I do not care either way.
>>> I loved hearing and felt great relief in the fact that I am not to blame, said treatment and AA. I actually believe that might be true without proper knowledge and awareness about addiction. I honestly had no idea what was going on with me. All I knew was I couldn’t stop, ended up in treatment thinking that would fix me, then discovering AA. Now that I know more (not everything) about different ideas regarding addiction causes and recovery strategies… I personally feel like it would be morally wrong to pick up again. I know too much. It would be wrong.
SO…
Very glad I came back to this site, it is amazing that I had dismissed the idea of there being other ways to recover from addiction. I should have looked for myself earlier instead of depending on the fellowship and HP to guide me so much… though, again, I was lead to believe that when I take control s*** hits the fan… so I guess I was just trying my best at AA. No shame in that. I just feel a little stupid, like, “there you go again, Brittany, believing every single little thing you hear”.
I am aware that many people have benefited from AA, including myself (I do handle life stuff better and anxiety is a lot of the time under control), and if it works for the person I am talking to and millions of others, they have no reason to think it wouldn’t work for me too. It’s just a shame to not hear that people can actually recover in other ways. I have completed four inpatient treatments and months and months of IOP and OP -- not once was I told of any other program.
I finally purchased the AVRT book because it seems to address what I have been trying to describe to people (friends, family, sponsor, therapist) concerned with my drinking/relapses. That I feel like there is a split in my mind/thoughts/personality/whatever. That there is a true self, and an impostor - which my addiction controls. (I don't know if that even really makes sense, it is really hard for me to explain this, I am hoping the book will help with that). Looking forward to reading this weekend, and communicating with all of you here. I might still go to meetings, I think I benefit from the fellowship, I have connected with a great group of people in my city, just not sure how to go about it quite yet. Best not to worry too much, I am sure
(sorry I wrote so much)
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