Wells

I'm feeling I guess a bit in awe of the diseases of alcoholism and depression today. I also can't help but wonder -- Why aren't there definitive tests for depression and alcoholism like there are for other ailments? You'd think someone would come up with that.

When you tell someone they have cancer, you give them the test result, they have cancer. There's no denying it. I can't help but wonder what the actual diagnosis being definitive would do to folks suffering from alcohol issues and depression if they was a way to underline it and have it be undeniable. I think a lot of it comes from the belief this is just a life choice, not an affliction. Hence, the reason there is nothing wrong and no reason to stop. Because they feel they are in control of their choices and it's just an adult choice to live life that way. Nothing more.

Cancer inspires people to want to fight it. To beat it. Yet, alcoholism and depression seem to have this absolutely nasty side effect of having those afflicted with it actually want to ALLOW the disease to progress! It's astounding to me.

My AXGF (my own diagnosis, of course, not hers, I'll qualify) has been taking medication for depression since we met. She of course has mixed that with alcohol from the start (a depressant) and I'm not sure how much she's told her doctor about that but she's taken the pills for years.

Recently, she expressed a desire to actually slow the dosage of the depression medication down and said she wanted to be completely off the pills. In other words, she either felt her depression was cured, or she just didn't want to bother with pills that would alter her state anymore (the alcohol could do that nicely).

So, she's upped the drinking, lessened the pills. Thankfully at least told her doctor to put her on the no fly list for any addictive substances and tried naltrexone (failed).

What's crazy is what a vicious evil cycle this all causes. I've drank too much before. I know how it feels the next day. Typically, I'm a happy, cheerful, thankful person. The day after I drink too much, I feel like absolute garbage. Not just physically. Mentally, I'm actually DEPRESSED! I'm not motivated to do anything and I feel like the world is hopeless. So imagine how that must feel to someone who clinically suffers from depression already, to have drank too much, and then faced the next day with that weight on them. It must suck. Imagine how it must feel to feel like that EVERY DAY and have your brain not be able to tell you that it's time to get professional help and do the work to change that. I have no idea how I would deal with feeling that way every day. I like to think I'd get the help. But maybe the A's brain tells them, more A, that will solve the problem TODAY.

She was supposed to come over this weekend to get more things. She texted to say she hasn't gotten out of bed all day. This was the usual after all the big drinking nights. So she's not changing the cycle. I'm so astounded and disappointed. I know there's nothing I can do and it has been freeing. I realize all of this is about as textbook as it gets (and I've seen it reading all your stories here). I'm so sad for her that she can't get past it. I can tell she is hurting, but she's not doing anything about it.

The dog continues to suffer as well, it's been a week or so now since we parted ways and as much as I'd love to co-parent the dog it's just not fair to the dog or to me as it's too hard to say goodbye every time. The dog is depressed and a shell of itself apparently and it's making all of this even harder on AXGF. She's had to start over and to top it off, her favorite thing in the world next to alcohol, the dog, is depressed now, too. She texted me a photo of the dog balled up in its bed, something it never did here. They say animals go through some depression as well in these situations. I took a lot of care of that dog. I can imagine this is hard for her to understand after she lived with me the past 3 years.

It's a terrible scenario and not anything you wish on anyone, especially someone that you love. I just feel so sad for AXGF today, in that she's afflicted with these horrible things, depression and alcoholism, and they're telling her to just keep doing what she's doing despite the ruin it's caused. That she's powerless against it and in its grasp. Sad, amazingly powerful, horrible, awful diseases.

AnvilheadII

can you maybe offer to take the dog off her hands for awhile? as if you are doing HER a favor? i mean if she is showing you pics of the poor dog looking depressed?

caretaker88

As far as diagnoses go, it is impossible to actually have a definitive test that says "yes, you have depression". We have something called the DSM-V that we use to diagnose these conditions, alcoholism is one of them, but it is just an educated guess. Because these conditions have to do with chemicals in the brain, and neurons firing, or not, or over-firing, etc, there is no way to measure these chemicals. At least at this time. We can only look at the symptoms. If so and so has this many of the symptoms, we can guess with pretty good certainty that they have the condition. The brain is very complex. We, in the medical community, know that we only know a small fraction about the brain, how it exactly works... There is so much more that we don't know, than what we do.

maia1234

Wells,
We all understand!!!! Watching our loved ones killing themselves and they tell us to let them go. I read this on this forum and love it.

If you love me let me fall all by myself. Don't try to spread a net out to catch me, don't throw a pillow under my a** to cushion the pain so I don't have to feel it, don't stand in the place I am going to land so that you can break the fall (allowing yourself to get hurt instead of me) ...

Let me fall as far down as my addiction is going to take me, let me walk the valley alone all by myself, let me reach the bottom of the pit ... trust that there is a bottom there somewhere even if you can't see it. The sooner you stop saving me from myself, stop rescuing me, trying to fix my broken-ness, trying to understand me to a fault, enabling me ...
The sooner you allow me to feel the loss and consequences, the burden of my addiction on my shoulders and not yours ... the sooner I will arrive ... and on time ... just right where I need to be ... me, alone, all by myself in the rubble of the lifestyle I lead ... resist the urge to pull me out because that will only put me back at square one ... If I am allowed to stay at the bottom and live there for awhile ...

I am free to get sick of it on my own, free to begin to want out, free to look for a way out, and free to plan how I will climb back up to the top. In the beginning as I start to climb out .. I just might slide back down, but don't worry I might have to hit bottom a couple more times before I make it out safe and sound ... Don't you see ?? Don't you know ?? You can't do this for me ... I have to do it for myself, but if you are always breaking the fall how am I ever suppose to feel the pain that is part of the driving force to want to get well. It is my burden to carry, not yours ...

I know you love me and that you mean well and a lot of what you do is because you don't know what to do and you act from your heart not from knowledge of what is best for me ... but if you truly love me let me go my own way, make my own choices be they bad or good ... don't clip my wings before I can learn to fly ... Nudge me out of your safety net ... trust the process and pray for me ... that one day I will not only fly, but maybe even soar.

Not that this will make you feel any better, but believe in what everyone is telling you and stick to your side of the street. Sending hugs my friend and keep posting.

Txjeepguy

I know how you feel about the dog.

I got 1 out of 2 at the end with my axgf

I worry about the one she has every day. He was hers first so I didn't feel I could fight for him, but he got so attached to me over the 2 years he lived with me.

The one I have is doing fantastic. He seems so much happier than he was dealing with the drama she caused.

Bekindalways

Hey Wells, thanks for what you wrote about depression. I'm a depressive so I caught a bit of overflow empathy in you post. It truly is not fun and there is no cure just treatment and sometimes remission.

I'm not an alcoholic but have to admit alcohol can take the edge off on a bad day. I understand why depressives become alcoholics. I try really hard not to get into a habit of drinking.

Refiner

Oh gosh as someone who has been on anti-depressants since 1995 (Zoloft then Lexapro) the WORST thing she could do is go off her meds if she does have depression. I made that mistake when I "felt better" and thought I no longer needed meds. I crashed so hard. Couldn't even leave my house and self-medicated in many other ways not caring if I lived or died. I believe the perfect med to tackle depression should have no side effects. It should give no feelings of euphoria, just normalcy. The Zoloft took away my depression, but made me feel NOTHING. No ups, no downs, just N O T H I N G. The Lexapro helps me feel NORMAL. With no need to self-medicate. I pray that she and others that battle depression (and self-loathing) can battle their demons and strike a balance. I know I've sure come a long way.

alcoholics wife

A dog doesn't have a choice as they are trapped by their masters. If the owner is depressed, the dog has no choice but to be in that environment. I would suggest offering to remove the dog from that environment. The dog's life would improve drastically.

sauerkraut

Hi Wells,
I share your wish for more definitive diagnoses and treatments. It seems to me that the stories folks tell on this board and the alcoholism boards, even if anecdotal, add up to a fairly common description of the lives of alcoholics and those who love them. It seems like this information could be used to forecast and treat/cope with the stages of the disease.

redatlanta

Alcoholism in an intangible for the most part dependent upon a patient being truthful about their drinking. Certainly there are many in the medical community that may not have clinical knowledge of alcoholism, who may even have common stereotypes such as someone who is working and managing their life still is not an alcoholic. Most people are going to address their GP if they have concerns or are pushed by their family, or significant others too. Often blood tests come back fine, or with elevations that are insignificant. This becomes ammunition for the alcoholic to remain in denial. Often times general practitioners DO suspect, but they aren't specialist, they refer to specialists. I'm sure many an addict or alcoholic has been given referral to a substance abuse specialist, and chose not to go.

The medical community can only help as far as an alcoholic is willing to find out themselves, and be totally honest. For those that cross the line to the point that physically the alcoholism CAN be determined by medical testing, those folks are usually very, very sick. It doesn't always matter - many a person has accepted they are alcoholic, sick, and done nothing about stopping.

I am dealing with the above scenario with a dear client. Its been coming, and its hit - inflammation of the intestines due to alcohol. I doubt she will quit. We shall see.

Mentally, I'm actually DEPRESSED! I'm not motivated to do anything and I feel like the world is hopeless. So imagine how that must feel to someone who clinically suffers from depression already, to have drank too much, and then faced the next day with that weight on them. It must suck. Imagine how it must feel to feel like that EVERY DAY and have your brain not be able to tell you that it's time to get professional help and do the work to change that.

You are applying normie thinking and experience to abnormal thinking and experience. Alcoholics feel normal when they drink, not when they are sober. I too suffered from horrible hangovers, and I did not have to drink a lot to feel bad the next day. I remember asking RAH when we were first dating and he had been sober many years "how could you function? Didn't you get tired of feeling crap every single day"? He said - "I didn't feel bad except when I didn't drink". No hangovers????? No! a rare occurrence to feel a "hangover", he did feel tired of course from lack of sleep.

IME across the board with many diseases that involve addiction people can remain in denial, or choose to ignore medical advice. Type 2 diabetic is one, and cigarette smokers are another. I have known many a T2 Diabetic that once diagnosed that have never ever changed their eating habits specifically those that are "addicted" to sweets. Put them on Metformin and they view it as a new lease on life to continue to eat whatever they want because the med "controls" it. NOT. And smokers....have known many with COPD, then emphysema......get the tank and keep on smoking. Cancer? Yep, smoke through it..... Have known those who have beat lung cancer and quit, only to start smoking again later. There isn't a dr. on Planet Earth that hasn't told a smoker to quit smoking - the percentage that do just based on a dr. recommend I would bet no different than someone who has been told to quit drinking. Addiction is addiction.

I know you are frustrated, and very sad for her. I know it would be great if there were a test, and if someone who got those results would immediately straighten up their act! I believe the Government/Insurance had neglected TREATMENT options and the country as a whole is "head in sand" about the horrific addiction issues we have. I am not sure its due to the medical community faltering - step 1 is admission that one is powerless over alcohol. That, I believe, will always be necessary for someone to decide to get sober, and there is no Doctor on this planet that can MAKE someone accept that.

LexieCat

I almost never had hangovers. But I had daily withdrawals when I couldn't drink. Guess what--they are JUST as unpleasant as a hangover, but easily remedied--just have a bit more alcohol. Easy peasy. That's part of the whole trap. Alcoholics DON'T feel normal when they aren't drinking. In fact, that's one of the theories about how alcoholism happens--that some people simply don't process alcohol the same way as non-alcoholics. The effects are different for them. Of course, it's more complicated than that, and there is usually a psychological/spiritual element involved as well, but if alcoholics felt like crap every time they drank they wouldn't do it. That's the whole idea behind Antabuse. The problem is, Antabuse requires the willingness of the alcoholic to take a drug that prevents them from using the one thing that makes them feel OK. Not too surprising that Antabuse isn't flying off the shelves.

tomsteve

not everyone diagnosed with cancer fights it.