Question from an "A" about sibling relationship
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Question from an "A" about sibling relationship
I’m usually over on the "A" side of the fence, but I had a question which I thought might generate more useful responses if I posted it over here on "F and F."
My sole close family member is an older sister whom I have a very hard time being around. I recognize that this is my problem and not hers.
Last holiday season, armed with nearly 3 years of sobriety and a comprehensive toolkit of recovery skills, I felt confident enough to invite her to visit me. For me, the visit was awful — I didn’t drink, but despite my very best efforts, I was a mess the whole time she was present, and I felt like I escaped disaster by the skin of my teeth. For her, it was no problem — she had a great time. Part of what makes it so difficult for me to be around her is what I experience in her as a breathtakingly oblivious self-centeredness.
Now my sister is pressuring me for more visits — she wants to come out to my city to visit me again; she wants me to meet her at the Grand Canyon — and I don’t feel confident to handle it. By the way, this would all be on my dime, as she’s a free-spirit artistic type and doesn’t earn enough money to pay her own way. I know that shouldn’t matter to me, but it does, at least a little bit.
I guess my question is, where does one set the boundary between protecting one’s own sobriety by avoiding people you experience as being "toxic," and living by the principles of love, tolerance, and generosity that the spirit of successful recovery demands? As family members, would you think it reasonable of your alcoholic siblings in recovery to tell you that a visit from you would be too much to handle and might threaten their sobriety? Or would you just be offended?
My sole close family member is an older sister whom I have a very hard time being around. I recognize that this is my problem and not hers.
Last holiday season, armed with nearly 3 years of sobriety and a comprehensive toolkit of recovery skills, I felt confident enough to invite her to visit me. For me, the visit was awful — I didn’t drink, but despite my very best efforts, I was a mess the whole time she was present, and I felt like I escaped disaster by the skin of my teeth. For her, it was no problem — she had a great time. Part of what makes it so difficult for me to be around her is what I experience in her as a breathtakingly oblivious self-centeredness.
Now my sister is pressuring me for more visits — she wants to come out to my city to visit me again; she wants me to meet her at the Grand Canyon — and I don’t feel confident to handle it. By the way, this would all be on my dime, as she’s a free-spirit artistic type and doesn’t earn enough money to pay her own way. I know that shouldn’t matter to me, but it does, at least a little bit.
I guess my question is, where does one set the boundary between protecting one’s own sobriety by avoiding people you experience as being "toxic," and living by the principles of love, tolerance, and generosity that the spirit of successful recovery demands? As family members, would you think it reasonable of your alcoholic siblings in recovery to tell you that a visit from you would be too much to handle and might threaten their sobriety? Or would you just be offended?
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I'm also a double winner, but the recovery from codependence is every bit as tricky.
My #1 Rule is...does this person affect my Serenity? If the answer is yes, I keep visits short - like in the one hour range. As soon as I notice myself tensing, I use my "gotta go gotta go" exit lines.
No way are you responsible for her travel expenses nor for spending any more time with her than you are comfortable with.
My #1 Rule is...does this person affect my Serenity? If the answer is yes, I keep visits short - like in the one hour range. As soon as I notice myself tensing, I use my "gotta go gotta go" exit lines.
No way are you responsible for her travel expenses nor for spending any more time with her than you are comfortable with.
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Originally Posted by dandylion 
Andante....as a point of curiosity.....does she drink when she is at your place?
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Oh, I'm starting to get it already: the fact that I feel guilty or pressured or obligated to honor her requests to visit is a sign of co-dependency in myself!
Funny, I would never feel this way if it were anyone else. Family is different. And harder.
Funny, I would never feel this way if it were anyone else. Family is different. And harder.
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Actually I think it really *should* matter to you that she wants you to foot the bill for trips she cannot afford!
Family IS hard, sure. But really, you do not owe her more leeway than you give yourself. You are allowed to have boundaries, EVEN and ESPECIALLY with family!
Family IS hard, sure. But really, you do not owe her more leeway than you give yourself. You are allowed to have boundaries, EVEN and ESPECIALLY with family!
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Originally Posted by biminiblue
I'm also a double winner, but the recovery from codependence is every bit as tricky.
Andante, I also most certainly think you should mind picking up her bills. It is not your responsibility to pay for her.
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Originally Posted by LeeJane
I agree with this. In fact I think the co-dependency was harder than the alcohol quit both to start and then to maintain.
Andante, I also most certainly think you should mind picking up her bills. It is not your responsibility to pay for her.
Andante, I also most certainly think you should mind picking up her bills. It is not your responsibility to pay for her.
I've done a pretty good job of enforcing financial boundaries with my sister when it comes to refusing to enable her unrealistic, pie-in-the-sky dreams (a "huge breakthrough" is always just around the corner -- I'm sure you know the type, as many alcoholics exhibit this trait), but when the request for enabling is couched in the context of being a loving sister who just wants to spend more time with her dear brother, all my rational thinking goes out the window and is replaced with abject GUILT.
I'm glad I posted this here, you all are really helping me
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I guess my question is, where does one set the boundary between protecting one’s own sobriety by avoiding people you experience as being "toxic," and living by the principles of love, tolerance, and generosity that the spirit of successful recovery demands?
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Originally Posted by Andante
How funny -- it's almost exactly like the way "alcoholic thinking" can sneak in and take me by surprise, only in this case, it's co-dependent thinking.
I've done a pretty good job of enforcing financial boundaries with my sister when it comes to refusing to enable her unrealistic, pie-in-the-sky dreams (a "huge breakthrough" is always just around the corner -- I'm sure you know the type, as many alcoholics exhibit this trait), but when the request for enabling is couched in the context of being a loving sister who just wants to spend more time with her dear brother, all my rational thinking goes out the window and is replaced with abject GUILT.
I'm glad I posted this here, you all are really helping me
I've done a pretty good job of enforcing financial boundaries with my sister when it comes to refusing to enable her unrealistic, pie-in-the-sky dreams (a "huge breakthrough" is always just around the corner -- I'm sure you know the type, as many alcoholics exhibit this trait), but when the request for enabling is couched in the context of being a loving sister who just wants to spend more time with her dear brother, all my rational thinking goes out the window and is replaced with abject GUILT.
I'm glad I posted this here, you all are really helping me
She is manipulating you. Simple as that.
I found it difficult at first to learn to see people manipulating me but once I learnt it was a great life improver. You get to where you see it coming a mile away!! Then move aside and don't get dragged in.
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To be fair, I think my sis's heart is in the right place. She would just like to spend more time together, which is a noble and touching sentiment -- and makes enforcing boundaries all the harder.
It's just that she's so self-absorbed as to be completely oblivious that I find her visits to be so stressful, and so much of a "free spirit" as to truly believe that the issue of who pays for what is insignificant in the face of the spirit of togetherness and universal love (she's pretty "woo-woo").
That said, however, I believe everyone reminding me that I must put my recovery first is correct. No matter whether the root of my problems with her belongs to me or to her, if I find the idea of a visit to be so stressful as to force me to ask for advice on a recovery site, then it's best if I avoid that situation. Any discomfort or "guilt" I might feel at refusing her is far less than the misery I'd feel if the visit was as stressful as I predict -- or if, God forbid, I relapsed over it.
It's just that she's so self-absorbed as to be completely oblivious that I find her visits to be so stressful, and so much of a "free spirit" as to truly believe that the issue of who pays for what is insignificant in the face of the spirit of togetherness and universal love (she's pretty "woo-woo").
That said, however, I believe everyone reminding me that I must put my recovery first is correct. No matter whether the root of my problems with her belongs to me or to her, if I find the idea of a visit to be so stressful as to force me to ask for advice on a recovery site, then it's best if I avoid that situation. Any discomfort or "guilt" I might feel at refusing her is far less than the misery I'd feel if the visit was as stressful as I predict -- or if, God forbid, I relapsed over it.
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Originally Posted by Andante
To be fair, I think my sis's heart is in the right place. She would just like to spend more time together, which is a noble and touching sentiment -- and makes enforcing boundaries all the harder.
It's just that she's so self-absorbed as to be completely oblivious that I find her visits to be so stressful, and so much of a "free spirit" as to truly believe that the issue of who pays for what is insignificant in the face of the spirit of togetherness and universal love (she's pretty "woo-woo").
That said, however, I believe everyone reminding me that I must put my recovery first is correct. No matter whether the root of my problems with her belongs to me or to her, if I find the idea of a visit to be so stressful as to force me to ask for advice on a recovery site, then it's best if I avoid that situation. Any discomfort or "guilt" I might feel at refusing her is far less than the misery I'd feel if the visit was as stressful as I predict -- or if, God forbid, I relapsed over it.
It's just that she's so self-absorbed as to be completely oblivious that I find her visits to be so stressful, and so much of a "free spirit" as to truly believe that the issue of who pays for what is insignificant in the face of the spirit of togetherness and universal love (she's pretty "woo-woo").
That said, however, I believe everyone reminding me that I must put my recovery first is correct. No matter whether the root of my problems with her belongs to me or to her, if I find the idea of a visit to be so stressful as to force me to ask for advice on a recovery site, then it's best if I avoid that situation. Any discomfort or "guilt" I might feel at refusing her is far less than the misery I'd feel if the visit was as stressful as I predict -- or if, God forbid, I relapsed over it.
Keep fighting<3
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First off, congrats on your sobriety. That has to be your #1 priority in life, above all else, including family.
It is hard when it's family. I think you are minimizing that she wants you to pay for everything, that is not OK. Secondly, I think it's completely OK to tell her that your sobriety is fragile around her, and that you are just not ready.
Remember, you WORKED HARD for this, and you don't need anyone or anything to jeopardize it. Just like it's ok for some of us to love an our qualifiers from afar because that is what's good for us, it's ok for you to do the same.
It's always nice to get perspective from another opinion, I am glad you are here. Thank you for sharing your struggle.
It is hard when it's family. I think you are minimizing that she wants you to pay for everything, that is not OK. Secondly, I think it's completely OK to tell her that your sobriety is fragile around her, and that you are just not ready.
Remember, you WORKED HARD for this, and you don't need anyone or anything to jeopardize it. Just like it's ok for some of us to love an our qualifiers from afar because that is what's good for us, it's ok for you to do the same.
It's always nice to get perspective from another opinion, I am glad you are here. Thank you for sharing your struggle.
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I'd go so far as to say that family knows all the buttons to push, and that these are long-ingrained patterns that continue to play out until someone changes them.
I often say relationships are a dance (thank you, "Dance of Anger".) Just because the music plays (i.e. she begs, she guilts, she manipulates, she uses I love you words...) doesn't mean I have to dance.
Sit out a couple and watch what happens.
I often say relationships are a dance (thank you, "Dance of Anger".) Just because the music plays (i.e. she begs, she guilts, she manipulates, she uses I love you words...) doesn't mean I have to dance.
Sit out a couple and watch what happens.
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Originally Posted by biminiblue
I'd go so far as to say that family knows all the buttons to push, and that these are long-ingrained patterns that continue to play out until someone changes them.
I often say relationships are a dance (thank you, "Dance of Anger".) Just because the music plays (i.e. she begs, she guilts, she manipulates, she uses I love you words...) doesn't mean I have to dance.
Sit out a couple and watch what happens.
I often say relationships are a dance (thank you, "Dance of Anger".) Just because the music plays (i.e. she begs, she guilts, she manipulates, she uses I love you words...) doesn't mean I have to dance.
Sit out a couple and watch what happens.
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Hi Andante.... Iam the oldest of 4 sisters no brothers... its very hard.. sister number 2 has mental problems and is a mess.. we have not seen each other in 20 years.. on the phone when she is at Moms Mom will make her talk to me..very overly polite and sharp... sister number 3 still drinks married 3 times 5 kids by 4 men.. and has done drugs.. of course she is perfect.. sister number 4.. married 5 times reborn again Christian and no one is as good as she is... I do miss my little sisters.. from back in the 1960's have some great photos that I hold dear to my heart.. but to see them now.. Linda will never see her... Diane see her every so often to stuff it in her face that I do care and show up to care for Mom.. Sandwich will never see her or know of her passing... hoping she waits for Mom to go first... Family of drinking Dads and Family is always so hard to deal with... me I have my photos and hold them tight... for the smiles of the little faces is how I want to remember them... I need a tissue and a hug... go ahead who wants to be the oldest .. I would give it up in a heart beat..... to be a little sister.. just for a bit... love ardy
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Originally Posted by Andante
Changing those "long-ingrained patterns" in my relationship with my sister will eventually require a more active strategy than avoidance, but if avoidance is the best I can manage at this time, then that is what I will have to do.
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