Why do we stay?

Old 05-30-2016, 05:08 PM
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Why do we stay?

The other day, ladyscribbler said something that was a major AHA! for me. She said "Playing nice with this man is not going to cause him to suddenly become a reasonable and rational human being or have an epiphany about how poorly he is treating you and your child. Many of us here have tried to take the route of appeasement. Not one has met with success. "

Since I left in the fall, I've tried to play nice. STBXAH has been alternately remorseful and cruel.

I've been ignoring a lot of quacking by STBXAH since the other day, and really thinking. What I don't understand is this: I think I'm pretty smart and rational. If a friend was going through what I went through, it would be very clear to me that the friend should get out. So why did I stick around so long?

A lot of people on here come across to me as level-headed and logical. Why did we stay as long as we did? I'm sure most of us did not end it after the first drunken stupor. Is it like the frogs in the water, not knowing they're boiling until it's too late? Are we holding out for hope that will never come? Are we so damaged from our own upbringing that we think our dysfunction is normal? Do we think we don't deserve better?

And once we get out of it, how do we learn to live healthy and whole within ourselves? How do we learn to not choose the same type of person if we choose to be with someone else?

There is probably not one answer to these questions, if there are ANY answers at all. I am going to a therapist tomorrow, so maybe I can get some insight there.

I am genuinely interested in why you all think you stayed so long, or are still staying.
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Old 05-30-2016, 05:22 PM
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I stayed because I kept hoping things would change. I wanted to believe his promises that he would stop drinking and things would be better. I also stayed out of fear of being alone. My self esteem wasn't great before we married but was about as low as possible after years of verbal abuse. I thought if I left I would be single for the rest of my life. It took me years to realize how alone I was when I was with him and I'd rather be single than in that terrible marriage.
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Old 05-30-2016, 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by TimeForMe View Post
A lot of people on here come across to me as level-headed and logical. Why did we stay as long as we did? I'm sure most of us did not end it after the first drunken stupor. Is it like the frogs in the water, not knowing they're boiling until it's too late? Are we holding out for hope that will never come? Are we so damaged from our own upbringing that we think our dysfunction is normal? Do we think we don't deserve better?
I can only speak from my own perspective. I grew up with very strong opinions surrounding separation and divorce, and so I was already biased against 'calling it quits.' Combine that with the fact that as we get older, we get introduced to a series of rules or guidelines to follow on how to handle turmoil in a relationship involving two rational individuals. My moral compass directs me to resolve the turmoil whenever remotely possible rather than jumping to separation or divorce, and so that is what I try to do.

The fundamental flaw with this plan is that if your partner is an addict, the rules of conflict resolution don't always apply and so I got stuck wondering why things weren't working out, because I was following the steps I was 'supposed to.' That got me in the mindset that I must not have tried hard enough, or I made a mistake somewhere, and I start wondering what it was that I did wrong. Insert the "walking on eggshells" feeling of never knowing when an argument will happen because I can't figure out what it is that I'm doing to set her off.

And once we get out of it, how do we learn to live healthy and whole within ourselves? How do we learn to not choose the same type of person if we choose to be with someone else?
By being accountable to ourselves for standing behind our limits or boundaries without giving in to the expectations of others. By taking the time to really reflect on what you will and will not accept in your life and being aware of your surroundings. By removing negative influences from your life without apology. By giving ourselves the time and freedom to heal on our own, seeking emotional and/or spiritual fulfillment from within ourselves and not requiring it to come from someone else.
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Old 05-30-2016, 06:40 PM
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I stayed 34 years because I loved him. I always thought I could solve this. It was a rude awakening when I realized that alcoholism is progressive and it was out of my control. That's when I left.
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Old 05-30-2016, 06:49 PM
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That four letter word that was my downfall-not love , hope. Hoped he would stop, hoped he would get better and hoped he would see what HE was doing to his family.
I also stayed bc he had shattered my self esteem with verbal abuse and other abuse. Finally, I stayed bc I was terrified of leaving and my girls having to be around him without me there.

None of those are good reasons to stay-but they are some damn good reasons to leave.
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Old 05-30-2016, 07:19 PM
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Is it like the frogs in the water, not knowing they're boiling until it's too late? Are we holding out for hope that will never come? Are we so damaged from our own upbringing that we think our dysfunction is normal? Do we think we don't deserve better?

All of the above.

I loved him so very much, but also for me, it was (false) security - I had become a stay at home mom very early in our relationship (for his daughter, and then for our 3 sons), so he was the sole breadwinner. After we moved to FL, he had a really good job with a promising future (he was being groomed to be the owner of a multi-million dollar company), so for me the unhappiness was kind of a trade-off for security. I had NO idea that things would get so bad that he'd quit his job and throw away his future. I NEVER thought he'd cheat on me and abandon us. But he did.

And once we get out of it, how do we learn to live healthy and whole within ourselves? How do we learn to not choose the same type of person if we choose to be with someone else?

LOTS of internal work. I have an amazing therapist who I've been seeing weekly for over 3 years now. The first two years of therapy were mostly him helping me survive the various crises that were happening. Now that AH has been gone for a year, and I've come out of that final massive crisis mode of everything hitting the fan, him leaving, and the aftermath of all that, the real work on my healing from a literal lifetime of dysfunction has begun.
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Old 05-30-2016, 09:09 PM
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In my case Iīm sure it was because I felt I didnīt deserve better - I probably still donīt.

Before becoming involved with xabf I spent many years single. My longtime partner and father of my kids left me for someone else and after that I only had a very unsatisfying and plain weird LD "relationship" with a former friend who was more into virtual interactions than seeing me in person. This was a serious blow to my self esteem, especially when I found out he had moved back to town and didnīt bother to tell me.

So anyway, when axbf showed up, with all his charm and declarations of undying love, introducing me immediately as his girlfriend to his friends and family, it was such a huge boost to my self esteem. On the other hand, I did notice that many things were off but I just figured this was the best I could aspire to. I even remember thinking that he did seem to drink a lot but that he would probably want to be with someone else (better than me) if heīd stop drinking.
I think I made myself useful to him (doing the dishes and errands, adapting to his needs, never ask for much back) because I thought that was the only way to keep the relationship going. And as time went on and he became abusive, my self esteem became even more damaged.

So yeah, Iīm sure I had a big role in maintaining a dysfunctional situation. I really donīt know how to change all that. For now Iīm just dealing with the hurt and anger. I donīt dare even thinking about embarking on something new, it seems safer to remain single for ever though it does make me sad.
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Old 05-30-2016, 10:00 PM
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I stayed so long because I wanted to. For a long time, my fear of the unknown was greater than my misery. And part of that unknown had to do with protecting our children once their dad and I split, a battle I'm still fighting 6 mos. after leaving.

Once I got away with friends for a few weeks, I was able to see the futility of trying to get someone to change who didn't (and doesn't) want to change. That distance and perspective allowed me to recognize that it was time to move on, despite my fears.
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Old 05-30-2016, 10:21 PM
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I've realized now that probably what played the biggest part in me staying was my lack of ability to put up boundaries, which was fostered by being raised by a very controlling and codependent mother (she was an ACOA, as was my father.) I was predisposed to codependency and the shame of leaving was too much for me to bear....until it finally wasn't.
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Old 05-30-2016, 11:21 PM
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Mine is great sober and was sober enough that I didn't really see it... If that makes sense. Yeah he'd get messed up but then there'd be weeks of fine afterwards... But when I look back there was a whole lot of time drunk or hungover. Sad really that I didn't see it all day to day.

And I'm still sort of hanging in there... Not really sure why.
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Old 05-31-2016, 04:03 AM
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I stayed because my outlook on relationships is sick.

I need to do the work on myself to change. It isn't about AH, I was attracted to him because of what was going on in me.

I hesitate to use this word but 'normal' people when meeting an alcoholic or addict or dysfunctional person spot it and move away. It was my dysfunction that has always drawn me to men which mentally healthier women would step away.

I have met well balanced, nice men. Of course I found them boring.
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Old 05-31-2016, 06:17 AM
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I stayed because I needed to, until I did not.

Looking back it is very clear to me that I was going to get myself into a relationship like the one I was in that got me here.

I don't say that to be fatalistic though it may come across that way.

I had some serious learning to do about co-dependent behaviors, my own self-worth and how to be in relationships (especially boundaries and self-care).

I had NOT learned those lessons with non-intimate relationships though I had had a number of opportunities. Sure some of it was the environment I grew up in that affected me, but man I sure ran with it.

Though incredibly painful to learn the lessons I took from this have been invaluable. I would not trade them for the world.

I am so grateful I was open to the learning......this is not a cycle I want to repeat in myself.

Finally I deeply believe that we are given options to heal our childhood from many of the choices we make as an adult. I think that is what my experience was about for me.
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Old 05-31-2016, 06:39 AM
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I stayed for two reasons. One, I thought I was doing the right thing for my children. Two, I come from a family who just don't divorce. No matter what. It's just not done.

While that sounds crazy, that is just the way it is. Eventually, I got enough help from the fine folks here at SR, through counseling, and through Celebrate Recovery to realize I deserve more, and namely, so do my children. While I cannot take away their pain, they are with me 95% of the time. During that time, I can make life as good as I possibly can for them.

Had I stayed with their father, we would all still be miserable.
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Old 05-31-2016, 07:58 AM
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There were a lot of reasons I stayed.

There were some good times. He had a lot of potential. I didn't want to leave 5 minutes before the miracle. I am stubborn A. F. He was hot and liked to fish. We clicked - in the beginning. And the root of all that seems to be coming down to

My need for perfection and control of my life and surroundings. My fear of failure. Me not realizing that I deserve much, much better.

Dang - that stressed me out to write! I thought I was so happy with him, for a while.

My current lifestyle is pretty peaceful. I run from drama - straight to the nearest river, rod in hand. I read - A LOT. I cook hot dogs on an open fire for dinner on Wednesdays. I ride my bike - solo and with other women riders. I date, but don't really call them back - there's just no room in my time unless they are nothing short of spectacular. I eat well and exercise. I run the dog at the park every day. I see and talk to my family, often. I am travelling, making new friends, and spending time with old ones. I will look back at this time in my life with such love and fondness.

It is very hard for me to see anything from my relationship with XABF except my flawed thinking. Hopefully this is enough to prevent the same disaster in the future. It's so weird to be proud of my own "selfishness." Something I used to think was so bad.
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Old 05-31-2016, 08:05 AM
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Firebolt....I love the peace you have found in your life.

I strive for this on a regular basis. Thank you for sharing.
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Old 05-31-2016, 08:44 AM
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Thank you all. I really appreciate your honesty, even though some of it could not be easy to lay out there. So much of what each of your wrote brought up some painful feelings for me since it hit very close to home.

You all have such incredible strength. Many thanks.
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Old 05-31-2016, 08:59 AM
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Basically I stayed far too long because I didn’t know any better and when we know better we do better. Today I celebrate 3 years of no contact and a happy calm life that I thoroughly enjoy!!!

I didn’t know anything about addiction.

I had no idea it was a lifelong disease and would always be a battle for him.

I had no idea it was a disease like no other and couldn't be compared to other diseases.

I didn’t know that with each relapse, he got worse and it was harder to recover.

I didn’t know that it was ok to love someone and not be present in their life.

I didn’t know that just because I loved him that I didn’t need to “feel” responsible for him.

I didn’t know that just because I loved him that I didn’t need to “feel” obligated to him and accept unacceptable behavior.

I didn’t realize it was ok for me to leave and not “feel” guilty about doing that.

And again, I didn’t know anything about addiction……………….
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Old 05-31-2016, 09:09 AM
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I read this post early this morning, and have been pondering it, trying to come up with the 'right' answer. Seems there isn't a right answer, and it made me ask a lot of questions of myself. But, here goes:

I did stay because I thought I could influence, coerce, shame, guilt, force, love her into quitting, or slowing down, or whatever I thought was needed. Through this forum I know that none of those will work.

I also stayed thinking that she would 'get it' and want to get better - for our son, if not for anything else. Sadly, the denial is way to strong to think she would even need help.

I also stayed because 'breaking up the family' seemed so, well, not right. I took my vows seriously (as did you all), and breaking those vows seemed like an insult to God. My son looooves her mother dearly, and the thought of having to remove him from that seemed devastating to him -her falling further into alcoholism could be more devastating. I stay out of fear that he would be alone with her at night, and she would drink and pass out, and there would no coherent parent should he wake up scared or sick.

I stay now because, though I'm more aware of the pitfalls of having a child live with an active A, I'm not yet ready to pull the trigger and leave/kick her out. I've changed my attitudes in how I deal with DS and try to be more loving/present with him - in order to show him who the stable parent is.

The love is pretty much gone, however - and that is sad. We co-exist, for the most part, but that's about it. To reference another thread -there is no intimacy, it been long gone.

Am I making the right choice(s) for me and DS? Maybe not, but they are the choices with which I'm comfortable, today. I did have an atty. consult, so I could make a move at any time. And when that time comes, I'm sure I'll know it.

I'm not afraid of being alone, or lonely - in fact, I would very much welcome the serenity and peace should she not be around.

I've always had an issues verbalizing my feelings, so it was hard to come up with this list, but I did, and it's giving me something to think about.
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Old 05-31-2016, 09:19 AM
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I think we all leave for different reasons. I too have been "staying" in the sense that I send him money every month and still have him on my health insurance. In fact, were still legally married. I am starting to get tired,pure and simple. I will eventually sever the last threads from pure exhaustion.
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Old 05-31-2016, 09:29 AM
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This is a really great thread--thanks for asking the questions, TFM, and thanks to all who have posted here.

For me, the reasons I didn't leave fall into a few different parts. It was a total of about 7 years from the time I knew he was drinking alcoholically to the time I asked him to move out (we had divorced about 6 months prior to his moving out; he was living in the upper unit of my house). During the first 4 years, I believed that he was going to AA meetings and had stopped drinking, b/c that is what I was seeing. I didn't understand the other changes that come w/recovery that should have been showing up and were NOT. I did nothing for my own recovery during this time, fooling myself that if only HE got sober, everything else would resolve itself.

After 4 years, I learned that he'd never stopped drinking at all or attended any AA meetings, was only pretending, and I finally came here and started to do Alanon, starting to work my own recovery. He began to actually go to AA meetings and claimed he was sober, but this turned out not to be true. I continued to not leave during this time b/c I simply couldn't believe this was how it was going to be. I absolutely could not accept that my "perfect" man was not going to see the error of his ways and all he stood to lose and come around! How could this happen? How could he not get it? I felt sure he'd eventually get sober.

And eventually, during the last 2 years, it was fear that kept me in the marriage. I really didn't have any hope any more that he was going to quit drinking or lying. I was just too afraid to be on my own--financial fear, fears about keeping up the house and land, handling maintenance, fear of having no one b/c I had allowed my world to grow so small I really had no friends any more. Fear about pretty much anything you can imagine.

And you know what else kept me there, maybe more than anything else? Memories. Memories of all the things he and I had done together or that he had done/made/built. We laid a pine floor in what is now my big bedroom. We drywalled the bathroom and he laid a lovely tile floor in there. He put in nice blinds in most rooms. We had years and years of snow shoveled or blown, grass mowed, gardens and flowers planted, weeds killed. We had dogs almost the entire time we were together and put in miles and miles walking the various dog combinations over the years. We'd worked at some of the same jobs in times past.

I think it was that, more than any other single thing, that kept me there. If you have memories w/someone, and they are the only other person that shares those memories, it feels like the memories cease to exist if you're the only one who knows about them now.

As far as how to live after the marriage or other relationship ends? For me, it's been similar to what others have said. I've learned how to do some of the maintenance around the place myself, and I've found some help for the things I can't do, like cleaning gutters on my 2-story house. This A) gets the work done and B) gives me confidence that I CAN handle those things. I've made an effort to get out among people, learn some new stuff, make some new friends. It's slow going, but thank heavens for SR and Alanon, I've learned that it's OK to take my time making friends and finding activities to do and groups to be in. I am reading a lot, exploring, learning, expanding, in so many areas, and I can feel changes taking place. Every time I feel I've moved ahead a little bit, it fuels me to continue working and continue moving ahead.

That first summer of 2013, when I had believed him about his sobriety and recovery and then found his liquor stash in July, I was crushed. I couldn't imagine how I would live. I felt angry, betrayed, frightened, confused, sad. It was an awful time. I would have never believed, 3 years ago, that I could feel as good as I do (most of the time) now, that I could have made the changes I've made, and that I would be looking forward to continued growth and new experiences, feeling (most of the time) that I'm going to be OK even if I don't know exactly what the future holds.
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