Restraining order as a consequence or manipulative
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Restraining order as a consequence or manipulative
My inlaws found out my husband and I were apart. I told them of his abuse. He wouldnt stick with therapy and they got word he has been out totally wasted driving his car. Went to our house to find it trashed and him drunk with drugs in the bathroom. He threatened them he would commit suicide and they called 911. He agreed to go to rehab and is now living with his parents, working, and going to outpatient 4 hours after work and 8 hours on saturday. I moved back to our house, changed the locks so I feel safer just in case he comes by wasted.
Here's the problem, this has only been in effect for 2 weeks. He hates the outpatient and wants to leave his parents and come home. Says he will keep going but I know he won't. They told him he follows their house rules or he can be out on the street. They want me to file a restraining order to scare him and show we are all serious. I can't do it. One of my friends says my complaints are true and he is probably going to fail and is this would help me with divorce. I dont want to divorce him because I believe he can get better. I agreed to see him today after his outpatient. He doesnt know his parents want me to do this.
Question. Does this kind of thing help him because its a consequence of his drugging drinking? I know it would be in my best interest for a few reasons but it feels selfish and manipulative.
Anyone have experience with outpatient like this?
Here's the problem, this has only been in effect for 2 weeks. He hates the outpatient and wants to leave his parents and come home. Says he will keep going but I know he won't. They told him he follows their house rules or he can be out on the street. They want me to file a restraining order to scare him and show we are all serious. I can't do it. One of my friends says my complaints are true and he is probably going to fail and is this would help me with divorce. I dont want to divorce him because I believe he can get better. I agreed to see him today after his outpatient. He doesnt know his parents want me to do this.
Question. Does this kind of thing help him because its a consequence of his drugging drinking? I know it would be in my best interest for a few reasons but it feels selfish and manipulative.
Anyone have experience with outpatient like this?
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aliciagr......the reason to get a protective order is to protect yourself and to keep you safe.
You have, very wisely, talked to the dv people in the past, and I think that it would be a good idea to speak to them, again, about this.....
My prediction is that he is ready for relapse, again.....the fact that he doesn't want to continue the outpatient program and to leave his parents house, tells me that he is still in deep denial and wants what he wants...and be damned with everyone else (and he is "sober", now).
Once a drug or alcohol molecule reaches his brain, again, you will experience the same behavior that caused you to have to leave the house and to keep your doors locked.....only, addiction and abuse is progressive...which means that it will be even worse when it happens again......
He raped you twice. and he will do it again.....
Addicts are extremely manipulative to get what they want...and, he is pushing all your buttons, BIG TIME. He is pushing your guilt button....and it is working....
HE is the one who is being manipulative!!
It is never selfish to protect yourself.....It is your right and your duty to protect yourself.....
Would you tell your daughter who had been date-raped by her boyfriend that to protect herself from him would be "selfish"?
I suggest that you write the horrible things that have happened on an index card and carry it with you..... and, read it every time you find yourself getting "soft". We tend to forget the bad stuff, all too quickly......
Whether you divorce, or not----your friend can see the truth--that" your complaints are true (and valid!) and that he will fail".......
\You have gone through a lot to get this far....don't go back on your good efforts just because he is sweet talking you....
Talk is so cheap....that is why there is so much of it......
Alicia, if you go back to your other threads.....others shared their experience with this and "outpatient"......
(people who want to use. hate outpatient--that is MY experience)
dandylion
You have, very wisely, talked to the dv people in the past, and I think that it would be a good idea to speak to them, again, about this.....
My prediction is that he is ready for relapse, again.....the fact that he doesn't want to continue the outpatient program and to leave his parents house, tells me that he is still in deep denial and wants what he wants...and be damned with everyone else (and he is "sober", now).
Once a drug or alcohol molecule reaches his brain, again, you will experience the same behavior that caused you to have to leave the house and to keep your doors locked.....only, addiction and abuse is progressive...which means that it will be even worse when it happens again......
He raped you twice. and he will do it again.....
Addicts are extremely manipulative to get what they want...and, he is pushing all your buttons, BIG TIME. He is pushing your guilt button....and it is working....
HE is the one who is being manipulative!!
It is never selfish to protect yourself.....It is your right and your duty to protect yourself.....
Would you tell your daughter who had been date-raped by her boyfriend that to protect herself from him would be "selfish"?
I suggest that you write the horrible things that have happened on an index card and carry it with you..... and, read it every time you find yourself getting "soft". We tend to forget the bad stuff, all too quickly......
Whether you divorce, or not----your friend can see the truth--that" your complaints are true (and valid!) and that he will fail".......
\You have gone through a lot to get this far....don't go back on your good efforts just because he is sweet talking you....
Talk is so cheap....that is why there is so much of it......
Alicia, if you go back to your other threads.....others shared their experience with this and "outpatient"......
(people who want to use. hate outpatient--that is MY experience)
dandylion
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Part of the problem here is that despite the horrific things he has done to you, you still feel guilt and responsibility for his sobriety. You still "feel" he might get better although his current actions of wanting to leave the outpatient program PROVE LOUD AND CLEAR that he has no intention of getting sober - you even don't believe he will continue to go.
I implore you to listen to his parents. HIS parents are telling you to get a restraining order - that is highly unusual. Traditionally the family of origin will support their child, and manipulate a spouse.
A restraining order is not a divorce decree. Divorce in every state is no-fault unless you decide to specify. A restraining order might be applicable to child custody in a divorce, but not anything else. The point of the restraining order is to protect you - if he doesn't want to get sober contrary to what his parents think - it won't help. He may play nice for a bit longer to live with them that's about all.
Consequence's are something an addict needs to feel. That is very true. His consequence for raping you should be much more than a retraining order. You are being neither selfish or manipulative.
Protect yourself. Call the DV people. Don't cave in, not in anyone's best interest to do so.
I implore you to listen to his parents. HIS parents are telling you to get a restraining order - that is highly unusual. Traditionally the family of origin will support their child, and manipulate a spouse.
A restraining order is not a divorce decree. Divorce in every state is no-fault unless you decide to specify. A restraining order might be applicable to child custody in a divorce, but not anything else. The point of the restraining order is to protect you - if he doesn't want to get sober contrary to what his parents think - it won't help. He may play nice for a bit longer to live with them that's about all.
Consequence's are something an addict needs to feel. That is very true. His consequence for raping you should be much more than a retraining order. You are being neither selfish or manipulative.
Protect yourself. Call the DV people. Don't cave in, not in anyone's best interest to do so.
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Thank you for the support. I think my mind says its not necessary and I his parents only want to use me topressure him, and that awould be why I would do it, my mind still doesnt accept I need R.O. to keep him away. But I know odds are not good he will stay off the drugs with this outpatient program and I do have fears if he gets wasted again. I will see him tonight and try to make a decision after we talk.
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Alicia.....With all due respect....You do not have the ability to predict what a drug user will do while under the influence!
THEY do not even have the ability to predict....
Reading the thousands (yes, thousands)...of real life stories of those of us who have been through the user promising on bibles, on their children's lives, etc.....that it will "NEVER happen again"...... will tell you that. When they get the urge to use...and do it....all those promises and words evaporate l ike dew in the morning sun!
Personally, I think you are walking into an "ambush", tonight. He will, undoubtedly be armed with his most persuaseive words and lay on your guilt button for all it is worth...... He will be counting on you to cave....
Evidently, his parents are holding the boundaries with him...and, that is probably why he wants to get out of there....
I propose that it does little good for them to hold the boundaries if you just open the door for him, again......
There is a saying, in these parts--"If you want to know an alcoholics/addicts true colors....just tell them "NO" about something.....
dandylion
THEY do not even have the ability to predict....
Reading the thousands (yes, thousands)...of real life stories of those of us who have been through the user promising on bibles, on their children's lives, etc.....that it will "NEVER happen again"...... will tell you that. When they get the urge to use...and do it....all those promises and words evaporate l ike dew in the morning sun!
Personally, I think you are walking into an "ambush", tonight. He will, undoubtedly be armed with his most persuaseive words and lay on your guilt button for all it is worth...... He will be counting on you to cave....
Evidently, his parents are holding the boundaries with him...and, that is probably why he wants to get out of there....
I propose that it does little good for them to hold the boundaries if you just open the door for him, again......
There is a saying, in these parts--"If you want to know an alcoholics/addicts true colors....just tell them "NO" about something.....
dandylion
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don't let him in.
do get the restraining order. not for HIM, but for you. he is quite unstable and dangerous. already not wanting to abide by the rules. knows if he can get in your door, he'll be able to do whatever he wants. he's already assaulted you, sexually violated you. and those are criminal acts.
do get the restraining order. not for HIM, but for you. he is quite unstable and dangerous. already not wanting to abide by the rules. knows if he can get in your door, he'll be able to do whatever he wants. he's already assaulted you, sexually violated you. and those are criminal acts.
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It went good. He would like to stop the outpatient andgo to an inpatient because he ssays he feels he would get more out of it. He works all day and then going at night is not working good, and he feels resentful being pushed into that schedule. We then talks to his parents and go they agreed. He was calm and sober. Listened to my reasons why I felt he needed to finish treatment before coming home. He said he understood but it was hard. Its hard for me too but hes been unstable and he does admit it.
He will stay in outpatient until we find a rehab that sounds good and we can afford along with our insurance. He has specific ideas on what he thinks will help. Now need to find it. His parents were happy he talked to them and wants to do inpatient. They volunteered to help with cost if we need it. Worked out ok but now I will keep my fingers crossed a good rehab is found quickly.
He will stay in outpatient until we find a rehab that sounds good and we can afford along with our insurance. He has specific ideas on what he thinks will help. Now need to find it. His parents were happy he talked to them and wants to do inpatient. They volunteered to help with cost if we need it. Worked out ok but now I will keep my fingers crossed a good rehab is found quickly.
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Alicia....if he does go to impatient and stays the course, it will give you the time that you need to focus on yourself....which is going to be essential....
Regardless of whichever road that he takes...you will have to take care of yourself.
I take it that your main goal is to save the marriage....and you s ay that you love him. Oh, Lord---love, alone, is not enough when it comes to addiction. Addiction and abuse are the biggest deal breakers in the world!!!!
The relationships that "make it" seem to be the ones where BOTH parties work a program of recovery, simultaneously.
There is more to it than just putting down the bottle....there have to be changes from the inside out..that is why a program is soo important.
Always remember that abuse and addiction are separate issues...although they can occur together...
Abuse is about control and entitlement.....You are probably assigning it all to the drinking....(but, keep this fact in the back of your mind)......
I hope that he finds a program soon, also.......
Meanwhile....I suggest that you go to the sticky titled: "Classic Reading" and find the article called "10 ways to know if your addict or alcoholic is full of crap"....that will be a good yardstick with which to measure his commitment to sobriety.....
dandylion
Regardless of whichever road that he takes...you will have to take care of yourself.
I take it that your main goal is to save the marriage....and you s ay that you love him. Oh, Lord---love, alone, is not enough when it comes to addiction. Addiction and abuse are the biggest deal breakers in the world!!!!
The relationships that "make it" seem to be the ones where BOTH parties work a program of recovery, simultaneously.
There is more to it than just putting down the bottle....there have to be changes from the inside out..that is why a program is soo important.
Always remember that abuse and addiction are separate issues...although they can occur together...
Abuse is about control and entitlement.....You are probably assigning it all to the drinking....(but, keep this fact in the back of your mind)......
I hope that he finds a program soon, also.......
Meanwhile....I suggest that you go to the sticky titled: "Classic Reading" and find the article called "10 ways to know if your addict or alcoholic is full of crap"....that will be a good yardstick with which to measure his commitment to sobriety.....
dandylion
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Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 2,792
Alicia,
There are many smart people on this forum. Please listen to what they are saying. Your husband is an addict and will say and do anything to support his habit. I understand that he says the op is not working, very few like it. Please listen and support his parents. They have probably been dealing with his addictions a lot longer then you have.
Addicts manipulate people all the time. Please step back and let them handle it. He knows that he can work you, please don't let him. I have copied a post below that I want you to read and think about. Please take care of you and let his parents step in, it sounds like know what they are doing, don't jeopardize that.
If you love me let me fall all by myself. Don't try to spread a net out to catch me, don't throw a pillow under my a** to cushion the pain so I don't have to feel it, don't stand in the place I am going to land so that you can break the fall (allowing yourself to get hurt instead of me) ...
Let me fall as far down as my addiction is going to take me, let me walk the valley alone all by myself, let me reach the bottom of the pit ... trust that there is a bottom there somewhere even if you can't see it. The sooner you stop saving me from myself, stop rescuing me, trying to fix my broken-ness, trying to understand me to a fault, enabling me ...
The sooner you allow me to feel the loss and consequences, the burden of my addiction on my shoulders and not yours ... the sooner I will arrive ... and on time ... just right where I need to be ... me, alone, all by myself in the rubble of the lifestyle I lead ... resist the urge to pull me out because that will only put me back at square one ... If I am allowed to stay at the bottom and live there for awhile ...
I am free to get sick of it on my own, free to begin to want out, free to look for a way out, and free to plan how I will climb back up to the top. In the beginning as I start to climb out .. I just might slide back down, but don't worry I might have to hit bottom a couple more times before I make it out safe and sound ... Don't you see ?? Don't you know ?? You can't do this for me ... I have to do it for myself, but if you are always breaking the fall how am I ever suppose to feel the pain that is part of the driving force to want to get well. It is my burden to carry, not yours ...
I know you love me and that you mean well and a lot of what you do is because you don't know what to do and you act from your heart not from knowledge of what is best for me ... but if you truly love me let me go my own way, make my own choices be they bad or good ... don't clip my wings before I can learn to fly ... Nudge me out of your safety net ... trust the process and pray for me ... that one day I will not only fly, but maybe even soar.
Hugs my friend, step back and let it happen.
There are many smart people on this forum. Please listen to what they are saying. Your husband is an addict and will say and do anything to support his habit. I understand that he says the op is not working, very few like it. Please listen and support his parents. They have probably been dealing with his addictions a lot longer then you have.
Addicts manipulate people all the time. Please step back and let them handle it. He knows that he can work you, please don't let him. I have copied a post below that I want you to read and think about. Please take care of you and let his parents step in, it sounds like know what they are doing, don't jeopardize that.
If you love me let me fall all by myself. Don't try to spread a net out to catch me, don't throw a pillow under my a** to cushion the pain so I don't have to feel it, don't stand in the place I am going to land so that you can break the fall (allowing yourself to get hurt instead of me) ...
Let me fall as far down as my addiction is going to take me, let me walk the valley alone all by myself, let me reach the bottom of the pit ... trust that there is a bottom there somewhere even if you can't see it. The sooner you stop saving me from myself, stop rescuing me, trying to fix my broken-ness, trying to understand me to a fault, enabling me ...
The sooner you allow me to feel the loss and consequences, the burden of my addiction on my shoulders and not yours ... the sooner I will arrive ... and on time ... just right where I need to be ... me, alone, all by myself in the rubble of the lifestyle I lead ... resist the urge to pull me out because that will only put me back at square one ... If I am allowed to stay at the bottom and live there for awhile ...
I am free to get sick of it on my own, free to begin to want out, free to look for a way out, and free to plan how I will climb back up to the top. In the beginning as I start to climb out .. I just might slide back down, but don't worry I might have to hit bottom a couple more times before I make it out safe and sound ... Don't you see ?? Don't you know ?? You can't do this for me ... I have to do it for myself, but if you are always breaking the fall how am I ever suppose to feel the pain that is part of the driving force to want to get well. It is my burden to carry, not yours ...
I know you love me and that you mean well and a lot of what you do is because you don't know what to do and you act from your heart not from knowledge of what is best for me ... but if you truly love me let me go my own way, make my own choices be they bad or good ... don't clip my wings before I can learn to fly ... Nudge me out of your safety net ... trust the process and pray for me ... that one day I will not only fly, but maybe even soar.
Hugs my friend, step back and let it happen.
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Thanks. I'm feeling very positive from what I see so far. Weve been looking at rehabs online and making calls. I think he will need to go out of state for the ones he is excited about. not thrilled he will be far away from all of us but its trivial worry I know. And some dont even take insurance but ours will reimburse they say. Need to speak more with the insurance company to verify next week.
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He should be doing this, not you.
It's his recovery, and the more you do for him the less vested he is.
He's used to people "saving" him and you are stepping up to do just that.
When you say "we" does this mean he is doing the legwork or you?
Please consider the implications of this carefully--
Good luck Alicia--I
It's his recovery, and the more you do for him the less vested he is.
He's used to people "saving" him and you are stepping up to do just that.
When you say "we" does this mean he is doing the legwork or you?
Please consider the implications of this carefully--
Good luck Alicia--I
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We are doing it together and he is very involved. Its his choice where he wants to go. No he isnt used to people doing for him or saving him. He works and is a responsible person. Its an important decision and he appreciates my researching with him and also wants his parents opinion. Hes got a good attitude about it all. Its all good right now
Originally Posted by Hawkeye13 
He should be doing this, not you.
It's his recovery, and the more you do for him the less vested he is.
He's used to people "saving" him and you are stepping up to do just that.
When you say "we" does this mean he is doing the legwork or you?
Please consider the implications of this carefully--
Good luck Alicia--I
It's his recovery, and the more you do for him the less vested he is.
He's used to people "saving" him and you are stepping up to do just that.
When you say "we" does this mean he is doing the legwork or you?
Please consider the implications of this carefully--
Good luck Alicia--I
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Posts: 2,792
Alicia,
I agree with hawkeye, this is his gig. Let him do the leg work. You can not do this for him, he has to feel this. I posted above, you can not save him. Step back and see how much he persues this.
I know that you are putting all your eggs in one basket, his sobriety. Expecting him to go to rehab, get fixed and everything will be fine In your marriage. It just isn't that easy. There will be many more bad days then good, if he stays sober. Please go to the new to recovery forum. Read the post about how many times the addicts try and fail at rehab. Odds are really stacked up against him. Please do work on yourself on consequences if he fails again.
If you don't you will be back in the same spot you were before he left. There is an old saying on sr.... .....Trying to talk with someone who is in love with an alcoholic, is often like trying to talk with the alcoholic, himself. They just aren't ready to listen.
I agree with hawkeye, this is his gig. Let him do the leg work. You can not do this for him, he has to feel this. I posted above, you can not save him. Step back and see how much he persues this.
I know that you are putting all your eggs in one basket, his sobriety. Expecting him to go to rehab, get fixed and everything will be fine In your marriage. It just isn't that easy. There will be many more bad days then good, if he stays sober. Please go to the new to recovery forum. Read the post about how many times the addicts try and fail at rehab. Odds are really stacked up against him. Please do work on yourself on consequences if he fails again.
If you don't you will be back in the same spot you were before he left. There is an old saying on sr.... .....Trying to talk with someone who is in love with an alcoholic, is often like trying to talk with the alcoholic, himself. They just aren't ready to listen.
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Thanks maia
Originally Posted by maia1234
Alicia,
I agree with hawkeye, this is his gig. Let him do the leg work. You can not do this for him, he has to feel this. I posted above, you can not save him. Step back and see how much he persues this.
I know that you are putting all your eggs in one basket, his sobriety. Expecting him to go to rehab, get fixed and everything will be fine In your marriage. It just isn't that easy. There will be many more bad days then good, if he stays sober. Please go to the new to recovery forum. Read the post about how many times the addicts try and fail at rehab. Odds are really stacked up against him. Please do work on yourself on consequences if he fails again.
If you don't you will be back in the same spot you were before he left. There is an old saying on sr.... .....Trying to talk with someone who is in love with an alcoholic, is often like trying to talk with the alcoholic, himself. They just aren't ready to listen.
I agree with hawkeye, this is his gig. Let him do the leg work. You can not do this for him, he has to feel this. I posted above, you can not save him. Step back and see how much he persues this.
I know that you are putting all your eggs in one basket, his sobriety. Expecting him to go to rehab, get fixed and everything will be fine In your marriage. It just isn't that easy. There will be many more bad days then good, if he stays sober. Please go to the new to recovery forum. Read the post about how many times the addicts try and fail at rehab. Odds are really stacked up against him. Please do work on yourself on consequences if he fails again.
If you don't you will be back in the same spot you were before he left. There is an old saying on sr.... .....Trying to talk with someone who is in love with an alcoholic, is often like trying to talk with the alcoholic, himself. They just aren't ready to listen.
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Alicia I second, third and fourth the recommendation to allow him to do this on his own. Sobriety is a solo gig. I know it seems unnatural to back off and let him find the rehab on his own, but you need to. You need to be very careful here and see if he really means it. I appreciate his enthusiasm and apparent dedication to go. If it's authentic then he will do it.
It's very important to allow people the dignity to fix their lives. It's hard to do, it feels like we should help. Helping in this instance is not help. It's enabling. I do hope his desires are authentic. There is only one way to figure that out, and that is to see if when left on his own to do it, he does.
It's very important to allow people the dignity to fix their lives. It's hard to do, it feels like we should help. Helping in this instance is not help. It's enabling. I do hope his desires are authentic. There is only one way to figure that out, and that is to see if when left on his own to do it, he does.
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Originally Posted by aliciagr
They want me to file a restraining order to scare him and show we are all serious.
Seems to be best to follow their lead.
Fact -- they have known him for a very, very long time.
Sorry that you are in this situation, I know it's painful.
A nice sober day wished for all,
Bob
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Originally Posted by redatlanta
Alicia I second, third and fourth the recommendation to allow him to do this on his own. Sobriety is a solo gig. I know it seems unnatural to back off and let him find the rehab on his own, but you need to. You need to be very careful here and see if he really means it. I appreciate his enthusiasm and apparent dedication to go. If it's authentic then he will do it.
It's very important to allow people the dignity to fix their lives. It's hard to do, it feels like we should help. Helping in this instance is not help. It's enabling. I do hope his desires are authentic. There is only one way to figure that out, and that is to see if when left on his own to do it, he does.
It's very important to allow people the dignity to fix their lives. It's hard to do, it feels like we should help. Helping in this instance is not help. It's enabling. I do hope his desires are authentic. There is only one way to figure that out, and that is to see if when left on his own to do it, he does.
AND I so get wanting to be part of this. I remember when my XABF got into meth and didn't want to get help. At the time, I was thinking, "I thought we would face this together.". However it wasn't my problem. I needed to let him take care of his own problems and focus back on mine. I know this is REALLY hard to do. Personally, I'd rather focus on ANYONE else's problems than my own.
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Just a thought from someone with experience.
Let HIM find the rehab. Let him make the calls. Don't do it for him. The more they put into their own recovery, the more work they will put into it, and the more they will get out of it. He got himself here, let him put the work into getting himself help if that is what he truly wants.
Let HIM find the rehab. Let him make the calls. Don't do it for him. The more they put into their own recovery, the more work they will put into it, and the more they will get out of it. He got himself here, let him put the work into getting himself help if that is what he truly wants.
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