TheRaven

Hey y'all! I am the girlfriend of an alcoholic. I have so many questions that I will eventually get to in other posts. I've been with my boyfriend for a little over a yr, and we live together. 5 days ago I decided to leave him. We get along most of the time but when we argue it's really bad. I hate that I allow him to push my buttons but I hate it more that I react with anger also. He downs me during arguments and I react. I've never been pushed to the point of anger that he pushes me. I'm ashamed that I react like that. Feel super guilty afterwards. He is a functioning alcoholic, so he is sober at work, and him and I can have meaningful conversations at only that time. Other than that. Once he starts drinking, my feelings never matter. I feel like I have to walk on egg shells to keep the peace. He drinks every day. From the time he gets off until he goes to sleep. Jekyll and Hyde. I feel like I'm in a relationship with two different people. I love him with all my heart. Am I there because I think I need to save him? No! I've been a Medic on an ambulance for 15 yrs, and I've dealt with alcoholics. You can't save them. They have to want to save themselves. I'm there because I love him unconditionally. Even when he downs me, I know it's not him, it's the alcohol. He never does that sober. I left so I can work on myself and my reactions. I'm pretty thick skinned, and I don't internalize his put downs in a way that I let it wreck my self esteem. I'm used to dealing with all kinds of not so nice ppl on my EMS calls, and I don't take what anyone says personally. What I do get angry at is that he is disturbing my peace with petty nonsense which usually leads to an argument. I am however afraid that if I stay long enough with no coping skills, that it may in fact start working on my mental health. For now I'm gone, but I can't promise I won't go back. Until I'm ready to stay away for good, and I will know when enough is enough, then I need to learn skills to not react the way I do. Can you even diffuse an argument with an alcoholic? I don't want to return belittling with belittling anymore. It feels horrible

AnvilheadII

Hey Raven, to SR! sorry, it's a little slow on the ole forum today. others will be along soon!

you've already taken one of the most challenging steps when living with an active alcoholic and that is to Get The Hell Out!!! at the very least, FOR NOW, it's for the best. you NEED some breathing room, some space, and far enough away from the Black Hole aka Addict that you are not sucked into the vortex.

trying to converse, rationalize, debate or explain ANYTHING to a drunk is impossible. this would be true in "non-addicts" too if they consumed WAY beyond their "normal" limits and got snockered. however with the alcoholic, while the amount they consume has an ever increasing effect, it doesn't take very much alcohol at all for their brains to start shutting down certain parts.....and those parts happen to house the ability to reason, to empathize, to grasp reality.

as one of our long time members says, you'll have better luck having a conversation with a pine tree!!

he has an irreversible problem with alcohol. can't be cured, the disease can only be arrested. by complete unbroken sobriety from the day he quits to forever. that may or may not ever happen. that he turns on you so quickly and with such vengeance is disturbing. it's one thing of they are just generally all around ANNOYING and useless, quite another if we become the target for their anger and hostility. cuz that's ABUSE. and it is VERY possible that if he did ever get sober, he would still be an angry snarly man. many spouses and partners find out the hard way that sobering them up didn't really FIX much..........

so there's my 1000 words or less greeting!

StacyR

Welcome Raven.

amy55

Hi, welcome to the forum. The things you wrote sounded so familiar to my own experiences, but that stuff happened after I was married for 10 years. We were living with my mother in the beginning, and he needed to "keep his mask on".

You describe your life with him as "walking on eggshells", I described mine as being in a DMZ zone. Actually there is a book entitled "Walking on eggshells". I read it, it gave me a lot of information.

You're an EMT, you help people. I worked for Social Security and dealt with Supplemental Security Income. I did what I could to help people. We tend to have a nurturing instinct.

I think many of us here can help you with things to say or do so that a situation may not get physical, but is that what you really want in a relationship? I also would not put all the blame on alcohol, sometimes we need to look at a person personality. Sometimes we don't see the real person for years, but I think you are already seeing the "real person". I think we sometimes need to look at two things instead of one. Alcoholism, and abuse. He is showing both.

((((hugs))))
amy

amy55

I would also like to talk about your question, "Can I diffuse an argument with an alcoholic"?

My answer to this is "no". It may work for a little while to just keep your mouth shut and just walk away, it doesn't work for long. See, the argument that they have inside their head way before they even saw you. But now you are there, and they will push your buttons, till you respond so that they can blame you.

So, you can walk away for awhile, then they follow you, because they didn't get the satisfaction of blaming you.

amy

TheRaven

Thank you all for the welcome! I am so glad I got responses. I've read them all. The one word that sticks out in my mind is " blame". That word really made a light bulb go off in my head! He blames me for every argument. Calls me bipolar, crazy. Tells me I need help. Something is wrong with me etc. Then when he is sober the next day apologizes when I bring it to his attention. I've threatened to leave so many times and if I did, I came right back within days. I know that I've allowed this to happen to me. I could have stayed gone, but I love him and missed him. He would beg for me to come back. Say he would stop downing me. Of course that never happened. Every argument, he downs me. I'm tired of my life being in turmoil. I'm actually starting to believe something is wrong with me for keep putting myself back in that situation. Maybe I'm in denial and he has made me think I'm worthless and my mind is so confused that I just don't see it yet. The signs are there. I put myself back in the same position each time I go back. All I know is that my mind has been racing 1000 mph and I can't think clearly yet. I can't even process my thoughts. That's why I'm reaching out. I don't want this for my life, but I'm not sure if I'm strong enough to stay away

amy55

Raven,

What I can tell you is to not isolate yourself. You need people to talk to and to bounce things around. I'm really happy that you found this forum. I can't tell you to leave or to stay, that is your decision.

I just want you to know that there are many people here that you can talk to.

Yes, the "blame game". In the beginning of this we think well this is a new relationship and compromises need to be made. When I think back to then, it was only my compromises, none of his.

When I talked about the war in his head, that is what I meant. My ex had a war in his own head that had nothing to do with me, but he would push me and push me till I would engage. I hate that about me, but I didn't know what else to do at times. Like I said, I did the walk away thing, but sometimes that doesn't even work.

Did you know that a high percentage of alcoholics have a personality disorder?

((((hugs))))
amy

TheRaven

First I want to say thank you so much for taking time out of your night to reply to me. I really needed to find this forum. I have felt so alone in all of this and no one Ive tried to talk to understood my feelings or even why I put up with all that. I never knew a high percentage had personality disorders either. I know that when he is sober that he is alot more quiet. Kind of likes to be a loner. Alcohol makes him more of a people person. Now that my mind is beginning to quiet down more. I'm starting to realize the effects that being with him caused me. I can see alot of things about him that were hateful and selfish. Maybe it's because I was always anxious when he was around, and my only thoughts were to keep him happy so we didn't argue. Believe me when I say this. That is a horrible way to live. I never had time to myself when he was around. I was always doing something for him. Always! I've lost myself. I don't even know what to do to take care of my emotional needs anymore. My brain is programmed to take care of his emotional needs. He has sucked the life out of me.

amy55

Raven,

I don't want to push you one way or the other. I would prefer you spend your time hear reading the stories here, and to make up your own mind.

I would even suggest to re read all the things that you posted. Is this what you want? This time now is the better years, it gets worse.

I am an RA (recovering alcoholic).

I drank to deal with my problems, I didn't know any other way.

I was in an abusive relationship, I had to find a different way. I am now developing new coping skills rather then frying my brain by drinking.

You know, we can talk all night about alcoholics, and we can look at this forum for so many people that are trying, and I am all for them.

Do you know the percentage of people that go into recovery?

Do you know the percentage of people who are abusive that might actually recover from that?

I stayed, I tried for over 25 years. I locked myself in the car, in the garage, so many times that I lost count. It was my new bedroom. Was my ex that physically abusive? The answer is no. It was the verbal and emotional abuse.

I was diagnosed with c-PTSD, situational depression, anxiety and panic attacks. It seems to me that you are already feeling this.

I just want to say again, do not isolate yourself, please keep posting here, and perhaps, see a DV therapist.

((((hugs)))))
amy

PS: Don't ever feel alone again. Here for you.

Liveitwell

Raven-he sounds a lot like my ex....emphasis on EX. The demons come out when they're drubk-but they are there sober, too...it's just that getting drunk let's then out. Lovely to be on the receiving end of that abuse-I know, I lived it. I too returned anger with anger and hostility-my exs gaslighting and abuse and neglect and lies and.....did drive me almost crazy. Thankfully I hit my Codie bottom and started to pull myself back out. Divorced him less than two years later-two excruciating years that I wish I had back. The only cure for YOU is to get the hell out and pray for him and the next victim-his mask won't stay on for long, you can guarantee that. My ex is a charmer, but a very demented and demonized charmer that liked to abuse his wife and kids in private while throwing me under the bus in public to deflect from him being the tyrant in private while drunk.

Please take care of yourself. These guys do not get better without massive help. Stay away, please. There is no diffusing a conversation with a mentally I'll person bc no matter what you do or don't do, they will react the same. YOU are not the problem.

Hugs, and welcome, and please keep posting!! We are here for you!

fantail

This description jumped out at me. I was in this same situation in my relationship. It makes it very hard at first. Because you're right, we totally lose ourselves. So at first the silence can be overwhelming. But now it's about 5 months since we broke up, and it's been so wonderful finding myself again. It's recovery/rediscovery. Even if you ultimately decide the relationship is something you want to try, taking some time to grow yourself back a bit will be very worthwhile. Now when I talk to him (very, very occasionally) his head spins at all the interesting things I'm doing. It makes me realize that the person I was in our relationship was a very warped version of myself. He really didn't know me at all even after years, because the climate of our relationship made me a ghost. I'm glad you're taking this time.

TheRaven

Thank you all for the replies! I do not want to go back into that situation. I want to learn from y'all and find strength to not go back. That's what I really really want. I want to show him that he can't play these mind games with me and that I will not tolerate that verbal abuse. I know if I go back then, he will know he can continue to do the same old stuff to me. I don't want anyone to think that they have that kind of power over me. Now he is playing the ignoring game that he plays when I leave. I did not want to contact him at all but when I left, I left with just the clothes I had on. All of my stuff is at his house. Everything I own. Keeping my stuff is just another way he feels he has control over me or that HE is in control of our situation, not me. He loves to control people. When he doesn't have control of everything, he gets angry. It's his way or no way. He thinks the world revolves around him and his wants and needs. No one else matters but him. That is where I always buck the situation. I resist him controlling me, and he gets mad, downs me all over again. He is sick and needs extensive help. He is ignoring me in the hopes that I will beg him to come back. He wants to see that I am desperate to be with him. He feels better about who he is like that. I would never ignore someone I love. No matter how mad I was at them. He has alcohol to dumb his pain. I don't drink at all so I'm taking my pain, full on. After he ignores me for awhile, then when he gets ready he will text or call me. Telling me how much he loves me, misses me. Telling me the things he knows I want to hear. He manipulates my mind. Give, take back, give, take back. That is so mentally torturing for me and it's not fair. I don't deserve that. I'm so good to him. I do every single thing he asks of me and more. Not because he demands it, but because that's how I treat the ones I love. He is not like me. He is selfish, where I'm unselfish. I know how a relationship is supposed to be, and I know how you are supposed to treat others. He is the exact opposite of me. He says he loves me, but his actions sometimes don't reflect those words. He is consistent on the fact that he treats everyone the same. It's not just me. He has grown kids that want nothing to do with him. I'm going to have to face what he has done to me mentally really soon. But right now, my mind is like mush. I can't eat, sleep or think straight. When he sees I'm not coming back this time, that's when he will get nasty, and lie about me to everyone, telling them it's all my fault. That he did nothing. Blame, blame, blame. That's his MO

maia1234

Raven,
Welcome. We all know what you are talking about. Alcoholis like to control things because their lives are so out to control. Normal alcoholic behavior.

About dealing with arguing with an a, u will never win, so don't engage. Leave the room house or town. Just leave. My axh would wake me while drunk, and pick a fight. I would get dressed in the middle of the night and leave. I would drive over to our local hospital and sleep in the parking lot. I would not allow him to manipulate me into listening to his bs. I did this half a dozen times. Also, they say when u r communicating with someone who is drunk, u two are speaking a different language. You don't understand him and he doesn't understand u. So don't engage with him. If he's pissed about something, say u r sorry and leave it alone. Don't let the anger escalate. He wants to fight, don't give him that option. Keep saying you are sorry. He will eventually have no one to fight with, he's drunk anyway and wont remember. All it does is upset u, so don't give hi the satisfaction.
Hugs my friend.

TheRaven

Thanks for your reply! Yes I hate arguing. I like my life to be peaceful. Very few things were right about my relationship with him. I loved him so I just kept putting up with it. I was happy on the days we got along, but I always felt like I was the only one making sacrifices. I knew that was wrong. I have to find a way to be strong enough not to go back into it, even though I love him. I wish I could just stop loving him and not care. I'm tired of the broken promises. I'm tired of the highs and lows. I want an even mental balance. I don't want to feel like I need him to be happy! It's even weird that I even just said that because I wasn't happy alot of times with his actions. My mind is so confused. I don't know why I would even have a thought as to go back. I know when I do what I will have to put up with. I know how hurtful it is. Why would I even want to do that to myself? His ignoring me is causing me alot of anxiety. He's only doing it so I will feel like this is all my fault. I hate the mental games I haven't even tried to contact him again today about getting my stuff. Im not going to either. I won't let him cause further damage to my mind, by letting him think he is effecting me. What I'm going through is such a horrible feeling and I don't wish it on anyone

Refiner

Hi Raven! So glad you found this forum since you're in your situation. One thing jumped out at me in your original post was the fact that you pretty much knew you'd be going back to him bc that's what you do and you're looking for coping tools to not allow his personal attacks on you to slowly start eating into your soul/esteem. PLEASE DON'T. You will never find tools for the long-term and now that you are apart, you can really work on YOU and figure out what makes you keep going back to someone that tears you down. Even if they only tear you down "part time", is that still ok? Unless he commits to a sobriety program for life, you are facing this with this person. And even if committed to a program, you'll always be looking over your shoulder waiting for the other shoe to drop. You have so little time invested in this relationship so far - is that what you really want?

ETA: reading further it sounds like you actually see his power, control and abuse issues even when he's not drinking. So it's really probably just WHO HE IS drinking or not.

TheRaven

Thank you for your reply! Yes, I see his control and that is not the way I want to live. But I feel so weak when it comes to him. I know you will understand what I'm about to say so here it goes.....when you love someone so much, you want them to love you back. You want to know that they love you. So when he begged me in the past to come back. I did. Because he gave me what I needed to feel that love. Its a mirage though. I realize now, that yes he may love me but Alcohol is his 1st love. It's always going to come before me or my emotions. That's a hard pill to swallow. Maybe you are all right. He may just be an angry person with or without alcohol but I promise y'all that when he is sober he is the best man! He tells me he is sorry for what he is, and that he really loves me and doesn't want to lose me and he will try harder. He gets out his AA big book and reads his daily reflections book. I know he hates himself for being an alcoholic. He has been to rehab once, and relapsed 2 yrs later. He is disappointed I'm himself. But those are not reasons to take things out on me. I dunno y'all. I'm trying to learn from y'all and to get stronger. That's what I want.

maia1234

Raven,
One other thing. It's ok to love an addict and not be with them. I was with my axh for 34 years and tried for so long to not love him. When someone told me at an alanon meeting that she divorced her A, but still loved him, I fell off the chair. I said, I can do that. I can still love my axh and not live with him and watch him self destruct. That was a game changer for me.

Don't put pressure on yourself to "stop" loving him. You don't have too. What you need to do is love yourself enough to give him to God to take care of. It is time for you to take care of Raven!!

Hugs my friend, one hour at a time staying No Contact!! It is so much easier for us when we don't have contact.

dandylion

Raven....one thing that helped me....and I know that others have used it---make a list of the most awful times that he caused you to feel bad and write them on a card or piece of paper...and carry it with you at all times! Read it when your feel "weak". You may have to read it many , many times times in a day...or, an hour...lol.... I carried my in my bra.....

Since you have decided to leave him...keep making solid plans for your exit...and, keep them to yourself!
You could start reading "Co-dependent No More"...that is almost like the bible in these parts... I will, also, suggest "The Saber Tooth Tiger"...a quick, easy read...about why it is so hard to leave an abusive relationship. You are being emotionally abused, even if you have never t hought of it in that way.....

Alanon and a therapist is a combination that many of those, here, who have successfully left a dysfunctional relationship, and gotten peace and serenity back into their lives have used..... If you have lived with alcoholism in your family..."Adult Children of Alcoholics" might be the better way for you to go.....

Remember that you are, undoubtedly in the necessary grieving period, right now...and, I can tell you that it is like a pain that is unsurpassed....
Good News---it is short-term pain for the long-term gain.....
You might make a list of what you WANT in a relationship....and think about what you want your life to be one year from now...three years from now.....

You are stronger than you think...(we all are)....You are responsible for your own happiness....and, you will come out the other side of this.....

Your FEELINGS are normal. The relationship is not normal. You are meant to thrive..not to just exist....
dandylion

TheRaven

Thank y'all so much! I will use the card idea. I've been sitting here all day and just worrying what's next. When I act like I don't care if I talk to him or not, that's when I know I will hear from him begging. What do I say to him? I wish I didn't need my clothes and other things so much, or it would be easier to just ignore him. But I have family heirlooms there, things that belonged to my sister before she died. Such sentimental things I don't want to call the cops, because I've been humiliated enough and they all know me. I work with them on calls. I don't want everyone knowing about this right now. It's more than I can handle at this time. He will try to control my exit from his life.

dandylion

TheRaven....just to be clear....did you just recently move out of the living quarters from him.....
I ask because it is not completely clear, to me.......?
You say that you decided to leave him 5 days ago....does he know that you consider it over?
Does he know where you are staying...?
Do you still have a key to the property?

dandylion